Emilia Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Why should a woman be entitled to allimony if she also has a job? Because men rarely apply for sole custody of the children and most of the time the women end up having them full time - unless there is joint custody.
Emilia Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Sure, but that would be child support. From what I understand slimony is separate. Why should a woman get alimony if she also has a full-time job? That depends on earnings. There is a female poster here (haven't seen her post for a while) who pays alimony to her ex husband because she earns significantly more than he does. Even though they divorced because of his habit of picking women up on craiglist. 1
thefooloftheyear Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 too funny, so who is doing the dishes, preparing the meals, cleaning the house, doing the laundry. you are setting back MEN's rights years by playing into the women's hands: that their contribution to the household via UNPAID work is not being credited. So what you are saying is that because your wife does the domestic duties, that ALL women dutifully do the same...Thanks for the chuckle, buddy.... .. i make 3 to 4 times my W. she works as many hours as me, its that my pay is based on my ideas (a/k/a perceived value). W does (basically) all the household duties. so why would she not "deserve" some alimony for the years of unpaid work. i fully expect after 20+ years of M if we D, W would get half the assets and at least some alimony. to expect otherwise is foolish. Where did I say anything about women deserving nothing? Try to read the post before commenting...Of course they would be entitled to an alimony judgement... But that being said, doesnt mean they have to bury the guy.....oftentimes for LIFE.. TFY
Author marcjb Posted August 14, 2014 Author Posted August 14, 2014 Why should women doing housework while married be taken into consideration when going through a divorce, but not if she cheats on you? I'm also not saying a wife should just do the house work either. It was split, if not, I actually did more of it in my last relationship.
thefooloftheyear Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Why should women doing housework while married be taken into consideration when going through a divorce, but not if she cheats on you? I'm also not saying a wife should just do the house work either. It was split, if not, I actually did more of it in my last relationship. I know...its shocking isnt it...When I was single, not only did I keep my house neat as a pin, I also somehow managed to feed myself and do my laundry, too!.... TFY 3
amaysngrace Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Are you even dating anybody? I wouldn't worry today about what can happen five years from now and hypothetical situations. Seems like a major waste of brain power to me. 2
carhill Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 As background, perhaps this discussion is an impetus for the OP's questions here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/getting-married/473813-fiance-not-wearing-her-ring-work Apparently, as recently as April of this year, the OP dated enough to become engaged to be married. Sounds fairly consistent to me, thinking about aspects of being married while currently engaged or having been engaged in the recent past. Kind of like planning to retire before retiring. 1
Author marcjb Posted August 14, 2014 Author Posted August 14, 2014 Why should I not prepare myself or think about the future? It's not good when that is all one does, but to not consider it at all is pretty ignorant. Yes, I already stated from the first post that the situation you linked to is related to my current thoughts on the subject. 1
d0nnivain Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 For whatever reason as a society in the 60s most US states adopted a no fault system of divorce to allegedly streamline the process & to prevent damage to the kids while the parents dragged all the mud through the courts. That's why it doesn't matter if somebody cheated.
amaysngrace Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 As background, perhaps this discussion is an impetus for the OP's questions here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/getting-married/473813-fiance-not-wearing-her-ring-work Apparently, as recently as April of this year, the OP dated enough to become engaged to be married. Sounds fairly consistent to me, thinking about aspects of being married while currently engaged or having been engaged in the recent past. Kind of like planning to retire before retiring. It still seems silly to me to worry about his non-existent would-be wife cheating on him and taking half of his property. Retirement is an almost certainty. His hypothetical situation?? not worth planning for. Seriously, why get married if you're convinced she's going to cheat? Seems like that is the very path his last relationship took. Self-fulfilling prophecy maybe?
carhill Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 If it seems silly to you, simply move on. This thread is about discussing relationships and assets and was penned by a man recently engaged. EOS. If you've got nothing substantive to pen, holster it. 2
GoBlue Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 My only response is this - trusting someone wholly and trusting them "blindly" is not the same thing. In a relationship of love trust is earned over time and then a decision to merge lives together is made, or, at least, that's the way it should happen. Taking steps to protect assets that were held prior to the wedding isn't necessarily a lack of trust either. Every state is different and every circumstance is different. For that reason, no one can say for sure what will or won't happen. 2
Smilecharmer Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Be prepared in life. Best motto ever. My husband and I put in 50/50 so if something happened the 50/50 would work for us. Marry someone who is self sufficient, believes in equality and isn't petty. You can tell by how they treat family, coworkers and exes. Before marriage attend a class on finances and marriage and work out differences, then get a prenup that fits both of your needs. I would have no problem doing this if my husband had felt uncomfortable. I'm a go getter and get my own stuff. We both raised our kids and I just worked from home during the formative years. My husband offered but it was my privilege and my happiness to do this so I worked out a way to utilize my skills from home and made close to what I did before. I really loved freelancing so I stayed even after the kids went to school. People who are committed and love each other find ways to be invested equally and to make the other feel at ease. Romantic a prenup is not, but sometimes we just have to be practical to make something like marriage work and feel safe. I think you are right to prepare yourself and learn your way around protecting your assets.
Author marcjb Posted August 14, 2014 Author Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) It still seems silly to me to worry about his non-existent would-be wife cheating on him and taking half of his property. Retirement is an almost certainty. His hypothetical situation?? not worth planning for. Seriously, why get married if you're convinced she's going to cheat? Seems like that is the very path his last relationship took. Self-fulfilling prophecy maybe? I gave her the benefit of the doubt until she told me she "didn't feel the same way about me". Self-fulfilling prophesy? Maybe, but it would have been on her part because she was the one creating the situation(s) that ruined my trust and the relationship. She told me she had a fear of abandonment, and I told her repeatedly that I was willing to work anything out besides cheating, whether it be emotional/physical, lies and deceitfulness. No point in trying to work with someone when it comes to scenarios that show they are not willing to work with you. Anyway, this thread is not supposed to be a continuation of that one. I am trying to use what happened as a learning experience for the future. Edited August 14, 2014 by marcjb
newmoon Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 Where did I say anything about women deserving nothing? Try to read the post before commenting...Of course they would be entitled to an alimony judgement... But that being said, doesnt mean they have to bury the guy.....oftentimes for LIFE.. TFY you are not very educated on this subject. both of my parents are divorce attorneys so i see it first-hand and have since childhood. no one - not men, not women - have any say in what they are awarded. they can ask for stuff, but they are awarded alimony, child support, pension, the house, etc. based on assets, and what the judge and attorneys decide. if a woman "takes a man to the cleaners" it is because her attorney set some financial parameters for her, and the other attorney gave in, and the judge approved. it's not up to the woman herself; she can ask for stuff, but she has no control over what she gets. she can ask for a house and car or etc., but the judge ultimately decides a divorce decree. most women are not even smart enough to ask for pensions from an (ex) husband, but judges award them anyway. no-fault/no-contest is the dumbest idea ever because to just get a 'clean break" many women give up money they are entitled to. if you want to place blame, you have to know who to rest it with - attorneys and judges, not the individuals involved. 3
thefooloftheyear Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 (edited) you are not very educated on this subject. both of my parents are divorce attorneys so i see it first-hand and have since childhood. no one - not men, not women - have any say in what they are awarded. they can ask for stuff, but they are awarded alimony, child support, pension, the house, etc. based on assets, and what the judge and attorneys decide. if a woman "takes a man to the cleaners" it is because her attorney set some financial parameters for her, and the other attorney gave in, and the judge approved. it's not up to the woman herself; she can ask for stuff, but she has no control over what she gets. she can ask for a house and car or etc., but the judge ultimately decides a divorce decree. most women are not even smart enough to ask for pensions from an (ex) husband, but judges award them anyway. no-fault/no-contest is the dumbest idea ever because to just get a 'clean break" many women give up money they are entitled to. if you want to place blame, you have to know who to rest it with - attorneys and judges, not the individuals involved. You do realize that many divorces never get to attorneys??..Heck ,a friend of mine just completed his divorce using Legalzoom for 299 dollars....Many divorces are mediated...And women dont need to be smart...They have their attorneys to ferret out what they can and are entitled to have.. And please dont tell me that only the attorneys have a say..Ill PM the number of a busiess associate of mine that will be more than happy to tell you how he got dragged through the coals(after he found her with her dyke gf having sex in their bedroom) by her attorney(that he had to pay for).After paying this hack 60 grand he just gave her the house and 85% of the assets(over a million) despite having kids that were already grown and on their own..He was losing his mind over the fact that he had to pay for her attorney to fck him over... And saying its "not up to the woman" is total nonsense...She can absolutely decide on a more equitable financial arrangement than her attorney is drawing up...But why should she? That would take some compassion and understanding....Rarely do those things enter into play during divorces-especially if its the guy that wants out.Then its all about vindictiveness...Thats why divorce is usually recognized as the number one most stressful time in ones life.. So, if you want to pretend that its a completely level playing field, then be my guest..Its not reality, though. TFY Edited August 15, 2014 by thefooloftheyear
FitChick Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 In my extended family, the divorced women got next to nothing and had to beg for child support which they often didn't receive. My aunt's ex husband kept their house and a vacation property. She got enough to buy a condo. They were married over thirty years. She had a crappy attorney. Her ex is living in a luxury retirement village and takes cruises and trips around the world. 2
lollipopspot Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 (edited) OP, if you are very concerned, then partner up with people who earn similar to what you earn, and don't support them financially. Also, if you have children and you want the mother to primarily care for those children rather than a day care center, and take a hit in her work, you must realize that she will be entitled to more in the case of divorce. Just use your head. The legal system is not now gendered in the sense that it says "women get x, men get y." It's about the ROLE and incomes earned. It's very simple. Don't put yourself in a position where you are significantly out-earning your partner or financially supporting them. Supporting your parter while they primarily care for children is such a no-brainer that you will have to pay more in the event of divorce, I don't know why so many men on-line act absolutely shocked when they have to give their partner money as a result of that when they get divorced. A lot of guys think it should just be a clean break as if they're both starting out equal. Ideally don't have children, if you are quite worried about finances - they're a huge financial drain. I think it's good to protect yourself and your finances, but be clear on the logic for why these things exist. You can protect yourself best by the careful choice of partner, what you expect from them, and reproductive choices. Edited August 15, 2014 by lollipopspot 2
thefooloftheyear Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 OP, if you are very concerned, then partner up with people who earn similar to what you earn, and don't support them financially. Also, if you have children and you want the mother to primarily care for those children rather than a day care center, and take a hit in her work, you must realize that she will be entitled to more in the case of divorce. Just use your head. The legal system is not now gendered in the sense that it says "women get x, men get y." It's about the ROLE and incomes earned. It's very simple. Don't put yourself in a position where you are significantly out-earning your partner or financially supporting them. Supporting your parter while they primarily care for children is such a no-brainer that you will have to pay more in the event of divorce, I don't know why so many men on-line act absolutely shocked when they have to give their partner money as a result of that when they get divorced. A lot of guys think it should just be a clean break as if they're both starting out equal. Ideally don't have children, if you are quite worried about finances - they're a huge financial drain. I think it's good to protect yourself and your finances, but be clear on the logic for why these things exist. You can protect yourself best by the careful choice of partner, what you expect from them, and reproductive choices. I agree with most of your post....especially the first part(where you pair up with someone of equal earning capacity/finances).. Guys do expect to pay...But stuff like lifetime alimony is archaic and heavy handed...And after the kids are taken care of(which only aszhole guys fight), judges/attorneys set alimony so that the woman is afforded a lifestyle that she would never have been able to achieve on her own..And it matters not if she can prove she "gave up" something to be in the marriage...She could have been laying on the couch the whole time and doing nothing.,.. So just to be clear, no one(least not me) is saying that there shouldnt be some compensation....But where does it end? The way its structured right now, its almost impossible for some guys to staet a life of their own-after they get done paying the wife and kids..Haven't you ever heard the phrase, "its cheaper to keep her"? I didnt invent it, thats for sure.. TFY
Author marcjb Posted August 15, 2014 Author Posted August 15, 2014 I don't want children, and haven't for a while. So I guess as long as go with that and bring up the topic of a prenup if a future partner brings up marriage, I should be good.
beatcuff Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 Where did I say anything about women deserving nothing? Try to read the post before commenting... back at you ---- where did i say they deserve MORE than their share or "take him to the cleaners". you asked why and i stated WHY. you have a low regard of what a companion has to offer (will not waste the time quoting you). your anger towards women......... i have a daughter, i WAS petrified she would have a boyfriend like me when i was young, not anymore.
thefooloftheyear Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 (edited) back at you ---- where did i say they deserve MORE than their share or "take him to the cleaners". you asked why and i stated WHY. you have a low regard of what a companion has to offer (will not waste the time quoting you). your anger towards women......... i have a daughter, i WAS petrified she would have a boyfriend like me when i was young, not anymore. I have no anger towards women..If you think that I do, then I question your reading comprehension skills...Ive said it numerous times...Ive never in my life been truly wronged by any woman--so why you would make that assumption is beyond me..All I state is that the way things are now, the guy usually takes it in the stones...Dont believe me, then just ask any divorce lawyer...He'll give you the story first hand....I have a daughter too...She should only be so lucky.... If you think all a woman's worth is predicated on her domestic skills....well then we have nothing to further discuss. Have a great day.. TFY Edited August 15, 2014 by thefooloftheyear
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