Angry outbursts

[katielee]

for those of you well into recovery - how do you control these?

I bubbled over last night and it is very hard on him. We both said crap to each other, caught ourselves right away, but how do I let him know i''m still hurting? Saying I still hurt about this seems to not honor the pain that I'm feeling, yet I don't want to hurt him back.

[waterwoman]

Ideally just take a deep breath and change the subject, walk away if neccessary. Calm down (I go running a lot), then go back and tell him later in a matter of fact way that you triggered. He knows you hurt. You don't need to hurt him back to let him know that. H and I got to where we were (pre-affair) by letting angry words and clumsy communication get between us. Not doing that anymore.

[harrybrown]

Sorry you are still going thru this mess.

 

Have you been to MC?

 

I still get upset from time to time. The anger is not the way to R.

 

I have been working on my anger, some days better than others. I am exercising more on our exercise machine (treadmill) and then also have to take long walks.

 

When she treats me lousy, that makes it so much worse. Or when I find some stupid email on her phone that she says she did not send, that makes it so much worse.

 

But hurting her because she hurts me, we both end up really upset and hurt.

 

Some times you do need time apart, but if he is remorseful, sometimes telling him in a calm voice and having some suggestions on how he can respond to you pain would help.

 

I would hope that your MC would have some tools for you to use.

 

Good luck. If you do find a good way, please let me know.

[katielee]

we were discharged from MC... we have plenty of tools in our box but sometimes we don't use them all the time.

 

I guess I'm blaming him because I still feel like crap about all this. We share about 1% of our triggers with each other. So, it makes me feel very lonely and it makes me resent that I even HAVE triggers. Because if he hadn't done what he did, I wouldn't have them, and that pisses me off.

[2sunny]

we were discharged from MC... we have plenty of tools in our box but sometimes we don't use them all the time.

 

I guess I'm blaming him because I still feel like crap about all this. We share about 1% of our triggers with each other. So, it makes me feel very lonely and it makes me resent that I even HAVE triggers. Because if he hadn't done what he did, I wouldn't have them, and that pisses me off.

 

Go back to MC.

 

You both need to learn how to communicate with honesty.

 

If you trigger you need to be able to tell him why and come up with a solution to eliminated the triggers.

 

All if the talks should be capable of happening without anger. That will provide a feeling of safety for you.

 

Keep going to MC until you get effective results from those "tools" you know about. If you aren't using the "tools" they are simply laying in the "box" unused.

[HereNorThere]

we were discharged from MC... we have plenty of tools in our box but sometimes we don't use them all the time.

 

I guess I'm blaming him because I still feel like crap about all this. We share about 1% of our triggers with each other. So, it makes me feel very lonely and it makes me resent that I even HAVE triggers. Because if he hadn't done what he did, I wouldn't have them, and that pisses me off.

 

In your situation, it works both ways. I'm sure he feels the same or worse as you since he is also a betrayed husband. Your anger should be directed at your actions as well as his. Otherwise, it seems like a bit double standardish.

[ForeverTainted]

we were discharged from MC... we have plenty of tools in our box but sometimes we don't use them all the time.

 

I guess I'm blaming him because I still feel like crap about all this. We share about 1% of our triggers with each other. So, it makes me feel very lonely and it makes me resent that I even HAVE triggers. Because if he hadn't done what he did, I wouldn't have them, and that pisses me off.

 

And if you hadn't done what you did he wouldn't have done what he did and you wouldn't be having these triggers. The blame game never helps anyone. You can't help your triggers and your pain. He should never have cheated on you and yes that is all on him. But you can't blame your current unhappiness on his cheating without taking your share of the mess which I know you know. It isn't saying you hurt less or your hurt doesn't matter. But it should reflect on easing your anger and resentment. His fooling around didn't come out of the blue.

 

Do you want to let him off the hook for his cheating?

 

And did you have hurtful fights before? My H and I don't fight over the top but we have had seasons of hurtful fighting that have left us feeling unsettled. And we have to regroup and one of us at least has to stop with the escalating. And usually when one stops the other isn't far behind.

[katielee]

Go back to MC.

 

You both need to learn how to communicate with honesty.

 

If you trigger you need to be able to tell him why and come up with a solution to eliminated the triggers.

 

All if the talks should be capable of happening without anger. That will provide a feeling of safety for you.

 

Keep going to MC until you get effective results from those "tools" you know about. If you aren't using the "tools" they are simply laying in the "box" unused.

 

we do use them most of the time. We are a lot better at this. We corralled ourselves pretty fast last night.

but, I don't think there is a way to eliminate triggers.

[katielee]

In your situation, it works both ways. I'm sure he feels the same or worse as you since he is also a betrayed husband. Your anger should be directed at your actions as well as his. Otherwise, it seems like a bit double standardish.

 

he has every right to feel the same as I do. They are directed both ways but I was a WS for two years before he was a WS, so I have done that work.

[katielee]

And if you hadn't done what you did he wouldn't have done what he did and you wouldn't be having these triggers. The blame game never helps anyone. You can't help your triggers and your pain. He should never have cheated on you and yes that is all on him. But you can't blame your current unhappiness on his cheating without taking your share of the mess which I know you know. It isn't saying you hurt less or your hurt doesn't matter. But it should reflect on easing your anger and resentment. His fooling around didn't come out of the blue.

 

Do you want to let him off the hook for his cheating?

 

 

I do take my share of the mess. Believe me, his cheating didn't take away his pain of being a BS. It doesn't work that way. Neither of our pain is eased as a BS from simply being a WS. Why do I always have to say that in this forum?

 

I accept no blame in his affairs. Especially the second one.

I accept full blame for causing his pain.

[ForeverTainted]

Saying I still hurt about this seems to not honor the pain that I'm feeling, yet I don't want to hurt him back.

I am glad you don't want to hurt him but I don't understand the fitst part. What do you mean by "doesn't honor the pain" and why would you want to honor theyour pain?

 

I guess I'm blaming him because I still feel like crap about all this. We share about 1% of our triggers with each other. So, it makes me feel very lonely and it makes me resent that I even HAVE triggers. Because if he hadn't done what he did, I wouldn't have them, and that pisses me off.

 

I do take my share of the mess. Believe me, his cheating didn't take away his pain of being a BS. It doesn't work that way. Neither of our pain is eased as a BS from simply being a WS. Why do I always have to say that in this forum?

 

I accept no blame in his affairs. Especially the second one.

I accept full blame for causing his pain.

 

If I yell and scream obsenities at someone and they yell and scream obsenities back at me yes it is their choice to do so. They control their own actions. But I am the one that started the fight. The better choice for them is to walk away but that has nothing to do with me and my responsibility and actions. I started it, plain and sinple an therefore if it were a competition. I am more to blame and more responsible for what happened.

 

I cheated on my husband. If he cheats on me is is his fault and my fault. I am the one that introduces infidelity into our lives. It would be because I betrayed him. And he has been hurt by me and I would imagine would want to even out the imbalance any way possible. Of course he chose the least helpful way but I would still feel 100% responsible for starting the whole mess. It would still be my fault. Relationships aren't math. The precentages don't have to align.

 

You share blame in his affairs. He didn't cope well and tried a poor method of feeling better. But he only did it because you cheated. So your first statement seems to be you aren't taking responsibility in creating this mess.

 

Doesn't mean you can't hurt, or trigger. Just seems to most people you should be a little more selfless in the blame game, take a lot more responsibility, and be far more willing to let his offenses go.

 

And if that isn't what you want to do or who you are I think you will find the wall and triggers will stay.

 

As far as I know my husband hasn't cheated on me. But I do know I am so regretful of my actions that I couldn't ever hold his actions done in pain against him!

[HereNorThere]

I do take my share of the mess. Believe me, his cheating didn't take away his pain of being a BS. It doesn't work that way. Neither of our pain is eased as a BS from simply being a WS. Why do I always have to say that in this forum?

 

I accept no blame in his affairs. Especially the second one.

I accept full blame for causing his pain.

 

This is interesting to me because I've never been in a similar situation. I am sorry that you are hurt, but I do think your relationship is one of the few on here deserving reconciliation. Whether you believe it or not, your husband having affairs makes it a lot easier for him to forgive you in the long the run.

 

The thing we differ on is that I do believe you were somewhat to blame for his affairs. At the very least, you set the tone for what is and isn't acceptable in the marriage. Once the vows are broken, they're broken. Also, a lot of men have an alpha thing where they have to regain their pride sexually. Once you emasculated him, he did something to take back his masculinity. It was the wrong thing, but it happened and was a result of your actions.

 

I really truly believe you guys can reconcile, but I wouldn't think that if you both hadn't had affairs. Now the score is settled, let the drama die down and forgive each other.

[katielee]

I am glad you don't want to hurt him but I don't understand the fitst part. What do you mean by "doesn't honor the pain" and why would you want to honor theyour pain?

 

 

 

 

If I yell and scream obsenities at someone and they yell and scream obsenities back at me yes it is their choice to do so. They control their own actions. But I am the one that started the fight. The better choice for them is to walk away but that has nothing to do with me and my responsibility and actions. I started it, plain and sinple an therefore if it were a competition. I am more to blame and more responsible for what happened.

 

I cheated on my husband. If he cheats on me is is his fault and my fault. I am the one that introduces infidelity into our lives. It would be because I betrayed him. And he has been hurt by me and I would imagine would want to even out the imbalance any way possible. Of course he chose the least helpful way but I would still feel 100% responsible for starting the whole mess. It would still be my fault. Relationships aren't math. The precentages don't have to align.

 

You share blame in his affairs. He didn't cope well and tried a poor method of feeling better. But he only did it because you cheated. So your first statement seems to be you aren't taking responsibility in creating this mess.

 

Doesn't mean you can't hurt, or trigger. Just seems to most people you should be a little more selfless in the blame game, take a lot more responsibility, and be far more willing to let his offenses go.

 

And if that isn't what you want to do or who you are I think you will find the wall and triggers will stay.

 

As far as I know my husband hasn't cheated on me. But I do know I am so regretful of my actions that I couldn't ever hold his actions done in pain against him!

 

yeah, I dont agree with any of this. I'm not interested in being in a tit for tat marriage.

[katielee]

This is interesting to me because I've never been in a similar situation. I am sorry that you are hurt, but I do think your relationship is one of the few on here deserving reconciliation. Whether you believe it or not, your husband having affairs makes it a lot easier for him to forgive you in the long the run.

 

The thing we differ on is that I do believe you were somewhat to blame for his affairs. At the very least, you set the tone for what is and isn't acceptable in the marriage. Once the vows are broken, they're broken. Also, a lot of men have an alpha thing where they have to regain their pride sexually. Once you emasculated him, he did something to take back his masculinity. It was the wrong thing, but it happened and was a result of your actions.

 

I really truly believe you guys can reconcile, but I wouldn't think that if you both hadn't had affairs. Now the score is settled, let the drama die down and forgive each other.

 

also disagree with this. There is no evening the score in marriages and affairs.

I didn't deserve it. He didn't deserve it.

[ForeverTainted]

also disagree with this. There is no evening the score in marriages and affairs.

I didn't deserve it. He didn't deserve it.

 

It isn't about deserving. It is about reality. It isn't about math or tit for tat. His that didn't erase your this and so he tried another that. But you can't seem to see you did start this and are 100% responsible for throwing the first stone. Like I said it doesn't make him less responsible as it isn't math. But far more understandable to an outside perspective. And to many far more forgiveable and empathetic.

 

As far as personal actions go, you are each solely responsible for your own. As far as your marriage goes and the infidelity. You carry the weight of being the instigator. You can't treat RAs like regular As or you don't take responsibility for being the one that started it.

[katielee]

using your logic, forever tainted, I should then be entitled to another affair. Hey, he had two, I get to have two.

No thank you.

[HereNorThere]

also disagree with this. There is no evening the score in marriages and affairs.

I didn't deserve it. He didn't deserve it.

 

These are not cognizant, pre-frontal, higher thinking things that you can decide. The alpha instinct is a very primitive, primal, instinct with humans.

 

Of course tit-for-tat isn't a good thing, but it is what happened. Trying to deny or wish it away doesn't change that. Acceptance of both of your roles will help you make more sense of it. The best thing to do is wipe the slate clean. You cheated, he cheated, we're done cheating and move on. As weird as it sounds, most people do not have this luxury and one party has to go on feeling like second best for the rest of their life. I honestly believe you guys have a better chance than most because of his affair.

 

Otherwise, it just feels like you are trying to hold him to a higher standard than you held yourself. A sort of double-standard if you will. To be forgiven, one must also forgive. You both have the unique opportunity to empathize with each other and go through the same pain. This will make it easier to let go of in the long run.

[ForeverTainted]

using your logic, forever tainted, I should then be entitled to another affair. Hey, he had two, I get to have two.

No thank you.

 

Your purposely twisting my words. You seem to have trouble taking responsibility for this whole mess being fundamentally you fault first. Two (never had sex) affairs never pay back for being blindsided by one. He obviously realized the first didn't make things better or ease his pain so he tried again. It hurt you like hell. The pain you feel is real and no less entitled than if you hadn't cheated.

 

 

But you are not entitled to treat your situation like the innocent Bs. Yours is unique. And trying to act like your affair carried no responsibility for his actions has obviously not helped in the least. And I imagine it creates a huge road block that denies the facts.

 

He should have forgave you or divorced you. But he chose wrong. Like you did when you had your affair. So, are you going to stay in entitlement or let it go? Accept the whole mess was your fault. Not worry about even scores and him taking his responsibility? Are you going to focus on the now and the future?

 

I don't think you will. I read some of your back story and it really is apparent you don't like the fact your affair started it all. Perhaps you want to be viewed as an innnocent BS. But I think that isn't fair to those that were blindsided by infidelity who never cheated first.

[ForeverTainted]

These are not cognizant, pre-frontal, higher thinking things that you can decide. The alpha instinct is a very primitive, primal, instinct with humans.

 

Of course tit-for-tat isn't a good thing, but it is what happened. Trying to deny or wish it away doesn't change that. Acceptance of both of your roles will help you make more sense of it. The best thing to do is wipe the slate clean. You cheated, he cheated, we're done cheating and move on. As weird as it sounds, most people do not have this luxury and one party has to go on feeling like second best for the rest of their life. I honestly believe you guys have a better chance than most because of his affair.

 

Otherwise, it just feels like you are trying to hold him to a higher standard than you held yourself. A sort of double-standard if you will. To be forgiven, one must also forgive. You both have the unique opportunity to empathize with each other and go through the same pain. This will make it easier to let go of in the long run.

The OP says she doesn't keep score but it is very apparent that it is the second affair he had against him. Like the first wiped the slte clean and they started over with her WBH being now the one to create an imbalance. But unless true R has been reached and many years have passed then this all about the same mess.

[katielee]

The OP says she doesn't keep score but it is very apparent that it is the second affair he had against him. Like the first wiped the slte clean and they started over with her WBH being now the one to create an imbalance. But unless true R has been reached and many years have passed then this all about the same mess.

 

 

which is exactly why I wouldn't have an affair, among other things. It would hurt both of us. If I wanted to even the score I'd have one. I'm not that person.

There is no imbalance. He hurt me by having affair/s.

The reason I haven't forgiven the 2nd one is that he pursued her, he saw what the first one did to me and he did it again. That's cruelty.

[katielee]

 

 

But you are not entitled to treat your situation like the innocent Bs. Yours is unique. And trying to act like your affair carried no responsibility for his actions has obviously not helped in the least. And I imagine it creates a huge road block that denies the facts.

 

 

That's exactly how I'm treating it. My affair carried responsibility for his pain, not his affairs.

 

I'm done with this thread and explaining myself. I have a right to feel what I feel and think what I think and you guys aren't even coming close to answering my orginal question.

[MuddyFootprints]

I have to remind myself to be reflective and patient, rather than reactionary and defensive.

 

If the outburst escalates to name calling, I'm out and refuse to engage.

 

We are handling conflict much better than we ever did pre-A. It's a process and we are learning.