cassie803 Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 My husband and I have been married two years. I found out right around the time we got married that he was talking to people via craigslist, etc... I confronted him about it and he denied it all. Even when I showed him and used the exact words he used in his emails, he denied it. I told him that it was okay to tell the truth, that it would not be the end of our relationship. He still denied. After a long discussion that included me telling him it was okay to talk to other people he finally opened up a bit. I asked him that if he wanted to do this, that we would have to set rules. The rules are very relaxed (always wear a condom (he's fixed, but still), always tell me when he's talking to someone, don't delete messages (because he omits a lot when we talk about it, and I want to know what's going on)) So that being said, he doesn't follow the rules. He still tries to hide everything, gets agitated when I ask him to see his email/texts and asks why I don't trust him. ?? Does anyone with a little more experience at this have any advice? Am I in the wrong for asking him to let me see his conversations? We are very much in love, I'm not interested in ending our marriage, he is otherwise a really great guy. I just don't have much of a sex drive and he does, so this is how I saw fit to remedy the situation. I'm just really frustrated that he still won't open up to me.
central Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) It's amazing that even with your permission, he is trying so hard to screw this up for both of you. He is not acting ethically or responsibly, and you are being amazing to him. Short of breaking up, which is what I would normally recommend when one partner shows such contempt for the other, I would give him an ultimatum: either follow the rules or cease and desist all extramarital activity. Monitor his email and phone, and make consequences if he tries to avoid monitoring. Basically, take away this freedom and make it very difficult to cheat - which is exactly what he's doing. If he persists, you'll have to find additional pressure you can apply, or make the decision to break up. Perhaps even a trial separation at that point would make him realize you're serious, but if he's as irrational as he sounds, it won't make much difference. Edit: FYI, I am in a fully consensual open relationship, we keep each other fully informed and all communications are readily available if we wish. Edited August 12, 2014 by central 3
Author cassie803 Posted August 12, 2014 Author Posted August 12, 2014 Thanks. Like I said, in every other regard he's great. He's attentive, he listens to me, he nearly spoils me, which is why I don't want to end this. But I'm pretty sure he would still do it even if I took away permission. I just want to find a way to make him understand that I'm not angry that he's talking to people, I'm angry because he hides it. And saying to him "I'm not angry that you talk to/sleep with other people, I'm angry because you don't tell me anything " So I kind of feel like I'm at a stalemate...
Author cassie803 Posted August 12, 2014 Author Posted August 12, 2014 Thanks. Like I said, in every other regard he's great. He's attentive, he listens to me, he nearly spoils me, which is why I don't want to end this. But I'm pretty sure he would still do it even if I took away permission. I just want to find a way to make him understand that I'm not angry that he's talking to people, I'm angry because he hides it. And saying to him "I'm not angry that you talk to/sleep with other people, I'm angry because you don't tell me anything " So I kind of feel like I'm at a stalemate...
spiderowl Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 You mention this is an open relationship but from what you've said, he cheated on you when you were getting married and from that point on you have let him have an open relationship. Surely an open relationship is where both people have decided this is what suits them/what they want? It sounds like he wants an open relationship - yes - but he doesn't want to share that with you at all. He wants to have affairs with whoever he likes and keep it to himself. I suppose that is still open - in that he is seeing others while in a relationship. Who decides what the rules are? You know he's cheating, you are allowing it, do you need to know who with and what they are saying to each other? I am not asking because I think you are wrong needing that, but wondering why it is relevant if you are giving him such freedom anyway. He cheats, did so from the start, and does not want to share it with you. Is your low(?) sex drive the reason he is cheating? If it is and he is not just claiming you have a low drive as his excuse, then I guess you need to decide whether it is better to stay with a high-sex-drive lying guy or leave him and find someone with a matching sex drive who is honest and who you can trust. Can you trust your husband? Personally, I could not stay in a relationship with a guy behaving as yours does. He is totally disrespectful and I feel you are fooling yourself about his 'nice' nature.
Author cassie803 Posted August 13, 2014 Author Posted August 13, 2014 Thanks for your comment. My sex drive hasn't always been abysmal, so that's not the reason it initially came about. Yes, technically in the beginning it was considered cheating. I confronted that though and we came to the agreement that an open relationship was something we would try. I have slept with other people before I started to lose my desire to, so yes it does go both ways, just not as frequently with me. (I've had a few health problems come up) So he is fine with me having other partners. It just seems as though I have to prod him a lot for information and he hasn't been grasping the concept of divulging info when I request it. I think he's got this fear in his head that I'm going to try and use it against him or something, which never was nor will be my intent. While I initially put 'rules' into effect, I think my mistake was not establishing consequences for breaking said rules. So I think I'm going to give that a try. We had a discussion about it this evening and he seems receptive to what I had to say. I think just writing it all down and getting an outside opinion or two helped me gather my thoughts and figure out what to discuss with him. If anyone has any other suggestions on things we could try to keep communication open, I'd love to hear it. It's a pretty new concept for me (And him too) so if anyone that's got more experience to share, I'm willing to hear it! Thanks!
thefooloftheyear Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 Thanks. Like I said, in every other regard he's great. He's attentive, he listens to me, he nearly spoils me, which is why I don't want to end this. But I'm pretty sure he would still do it even if I took away permission. I just want to find a way to make him understand that I'm not angry that he's talking to people, I'm angry because he hides it. And saying to him "I'm not angry that you talk to/sleep with other people, I'm angry because you don't tell me anything " So I kind of feel like I'm at a stalemate... So, if I am reading the tea leaves right, you are willing to put up with this as long as he keeps carrying you? I dont get it...Why stay married? Part ways and stay friendly...Im assuming there are no kids? Just doesnt make sense...for you....For him its probably a pretty good deal..Thats just my opinion... TFY 1
Quiet Storm Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 It sounds to me like you are treating your husband like a kid, trying to coax the truth out of him, telling him its safe to tell, he won't be punished. I don't see any real intimacy, or trust. I understand everyone has their own dynamic as a couple, but I would feel very disrespected by his behavior. His good traits- spoiling you and being attentive- would feel very superficial and phony to me, because of the underlying dishonesty and disrespect. You giving him permission to cheat isn't going to make him morph into an honest and open person. He wants this part of his life to be private and feels its none if your business. That is a single person's mindset. Be careful that you aren't lowering your expectations and sacrificing your needs in order to accommodate a man that doesn't seem to respect or honor you. 1
Author cassie803 Posted August 13, 2014 Author Posted August 13, 2014 Well I thank you all for your input, I will keep this in mind. I'm not going to drop it just yet. Since we had a discussion last night about it, and he seemed like he finally got it that it wasn't an option to continue acting the way he was acting. I will give it some time to sink in and see if he follows through and if not, we will consider other options. I know you probably think I'm stupid, but so be it. It's hard to paint a totally accurate picture over the internet but I thought I would give it a try anyway. Thanks anyway!
thekid36 Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 My husband and I have been married two years. I found out right around the time we got married that he was talking to people via craigslist, etc... I confronted him about it and he denied it all. Even when I showed him and used the exact words he used in his emails, he denied it. I told him that it was okay to tell the truth, that it would not be the end of our relationship. He still denied. After a long discussion that included me telling him it was okay to talk to other people he finally opened up a bit. I asked him that if he wanted to do this, that we would have to set rules. The rules are very relaxed (always wear a condom (he's fixed, but still), always tell me when he's talking to someone, don't delete messages (because he omits a lot when we talk about it, and I want to know what's going on)) So that being said, he doesn't follow the rules. He still tries to hide everything, gets agitated when I ask him to see his email/texts and asks why I don't trust him. ?? Does anyone with a little more experience at this have any advice? Am I in the wrong for asking him to let me see his conversations? We are very much in love, I'm not interested in ending our marriage, he is otherwise a really great guy. I just don't have much of a sex drive and he does, so this is how I saw fit to remedy the situation. I'm just really frustrated that he still won't open up to me. Allow me to preface this saying that I already know what mistakes were made on my end. I admit to having had an open marriage. In hindsight, agreeing to it was one of the worst decisions I have ever made. Not necessarily because of it being wrong for everyone. In relation to my specific situation. She suffers from bipolar disorder. I enabled it in many ways for a long time. Our marraige was never really magnifcent. No intimacy and a lack of sex. Things were getting worse each and every day. She came to me and told me she wanted to open up the marraige. Something specific that I was not really fond of doing. Met a guy that she liked and was looking for permission to screw him. Probably did even before she came to me if I am honest. Just was looking to have it all vindicated I think. I do not like to give up on things. It is a huge part of who I am. So stupidly, I agreed to try it out. So, this woman had sex over fifty times with that man. Even within our own house. She was actually very open about it. I cannot have sex with someone on this end unless there is something that extends beyond just initial lust. What other guy in his right mind would have a green light and still not go out and get laid? I did end up talking to a woman (now a good friend of mine) who was also going through a tough time with her now ex. She and I decided to meet one day then for lunch. Then, her dude decided to jump ship and move. All of a sudden and out of the blue, she decided to end the open marriage. Without asking for my opinion at all. I felt that my now ex was being way too controlling. Stupidly, I still met the woman for lunch. Felt guilty about it right away and ended up telling my now ex wife. She needless to say hit the roof. Insisted that I had sex with the other woman. Even though we never did anything at all other than eat. This was the end of the road for us. We never established any set rules at all. Plus, she ended up dictating everything which was going on. I was the idiot who let her get away with it. So, I bring all this up because there is no way anything like this can work if there are not any agreed upon rules. Ones that have to be agreed on and abided by at all times. Your other half seems to want all this in secrecy for some reason. You want to know what he is doing. Also, not sure if you really want this or are only trying to give him what he wants. This sacrifices what you want. Not something small to sacrifice. This difference between you will only cause complications. Does not really matter who is right or wrong. That is up for individual interpretation.
Author cassie803 Posted August 13, 2014 Author Posted August 13, 2014 I'm sorry you had to go through that. It goes both ways for us and when we originally discussed it two years ago, it was made very clear that whatever he does, I have the right to do the same should I choose. It rarely goes beyond exchanging a few emails/texts between him and another woman, which is fine. It just gets to me when he won't share that with me. I really don't think it's all the things other commenters are suggesting, I want to say that he gets embarrassed about it, so tries to hide it. It's still not right, but I confronted him about it and he's going to work on being more open about it. I may be naive, but this is the route I'm going to take for now.
Eggplant Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 You'll put up with anything, but he still won't even give you honesty. Nothing you can do with this.
Ronni_W Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 It just gets to me when he won't share that with me. I understand that he isn't complying with one of the rules...but what was the rule intended to do, or designed to protect, in the first place? That is, have you considered why it is important for you to know the details beyond that he is talking with or meeting someone? If there is a fear -- perhaps that he will become emotionally entangled and eventually seek a divorce from you? -- then it might be useful to help him understand that (whatever the fear may actually be), also so that he can give you proper reassurance and take precautions to NOT let your fear (whatever it is, if it exists) become mutual reality. Also, from his side...he really ought to know and be able to share with you why he is against revealing to you the details that you want. We can guess about what he fears may happen...but he needs to know and tell you...also so that you can give him proper reassurance. By the way, congrats on making the decision and choice to find a way to make your marriage work for both of you! Given it is one that can cause controversy, criticism, others second-guessing you -- and worse -- it is a brave thing to have done.
Author cassie803 Posted August 14, 2014 Author Posted August 14, 2014 Thank you Ronni. I really think there are so many other things worth fighting for, so it's not over yet. I guess it's harder to explain than I thought. I don't ask to see EVERY conversation that he has, I just want to know that they are available to me if I want to see them. I don't think that is a lot to ask. Every time I have had a conversation with another man, I leave everything available to him should he want to know. The rules were put in place to help maintain honesty and openness. He's not much of a talker so I get a lot of mumbles when we talk about it. Partly because of that, I thought by making text conversations available that might make it a little easier. I have told him that he has nothing to fear by sharing things with me. I don't see any reason to get mad at him by telling me anything that happens between him and someone else. I've been in relationships that were not so open and honest, and it left me crushed after all was said and done. He knows this. Most of the time, if I ask to see his email or texts or whatever, if he doesn't make a fuss about it, I will browse for a few seconds and let it be. If he does make a fuss, I see a red flag and get upset that there's something he's not being honest about. We were chatting about it a little last night and he mentioned getting embarrassed when I read an email between him and someone else. I'm not sure why, and I asked him why but he shrugged and said he didn't know. I suppose we can work on that too..
Ronni_W Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 We were chatting about it a little last night and he mentioned getting embarrassed when I read an email between him and someone else. ... I asked him why but he shrugged and said he didn't know. Yeah...NO...that really is not good enough for either of you at this stage. (New rule: He needs make the time to exert his mental energy and find out what is embarrassing or might embarrass him...and he needs to do it soon...within a week.) Okay, so. Now that I've taken over your marriage The first thing that comes to mind that might embarrass him in this situation is you finding out about his deepest, "darkest" sexual fantasies, proclivities, tendencies. In which case, yes, that can be worked on...there may even be a role for you to play in it (although, my brain isn't being more forthcoming at the moment, on what it meant when it typed that). Honestly, I'm not getting how this rule for detail or at least access to it, fosters any greater "honesty and openness" -- you have that with knowing if/when there's someone else on the scene...or the radar...or whatever. I mean, in truth details related to flirting, setting-up dates, having sex are pretty easy to imagine (even I can have a pretty good idea of the content). Therefore I would offer: When you do bother to peruse the texts and emails, what is your brain and/or heart scanning for? Cassie, I'm not knocking anything that you're doing or that you want, need to feel happy and safe in your marriage...at best, I can only ever hope to offer perhaps-new food for thought.
TheGuard13 Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 He's probably hiding that he's been with men, etc.
Author cassie803 Posted August 15, 2014 Author Posted August 15, 2014 (edited) I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for when I am looking. Sometimes I just want a look into his imagination since he's not good about being vocal.. It maybe helps me to understand a little bit of what gets him off when he won't (or feels embarrassed to) vocalize it. When he told me he didn't know, I asked if that was another thing we could work on, not using 'i don't know' and making a genuine effort to talk about it. He said he would also work on that. As far as wanting to know details, that's just how I process things..? I don't even understand how my brain works half the time, so I honestly would have a hard time explaining... I do appreciate your input though. It's not nearly as negative as some of the other comments. TheGuard- I don't think it's that since he told me in the beginning of our relationship that he has fooled around with another man before we met. Edited August 15, 2014 by cassie803 forgot to finish a sentence
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