Why are women so terrified of honesty?

[Rockemsockem]

People are giving you proper advice and you are getting snarky which is the exact reason people and not just women don't tell people why they don't want to see them anymore.

 

Two things I have picked up from this thread alone.

 

1) You have a giant chip on your shoulder against women.

2) You condone victim blaming. Which for most women (and people in general) is really, really unattractive.

 

Most women I know have either been in an abusive relationship or know someone who has and the kind of logic these abusers use is that it's the victims fault. Example if she just stopped making me mad I wouldn't have to hit her. If you have even remotely aired these views or similar views to your dates then they rightly have fled for the hills.

 

For the record I'm a dude before you bunch me in with those "rude women".

[ascendotum]

Here is an example why women find it hard to be honest.

 

My friend broke up with her boyfriend because he was unfaithful. He started stalking her. For months she tried to be nice, they had kid. She wanted to keep it friendly.

The night she went missing she had a big argument.......

 

This is an extreme example,but its the scenario that's given for women to avoid being honest, because there was that one time yrs ago I had this guy get argumentative or something like that happened to one of my friends once. Guys could say they had a bad experience with a girl with depression/anxiety once so giver the advice to avoid all girls who are in therapy or on AD/pysch meds. I'm sure that would grate on a few here.

 

(other posts)

Also giving a guy the truth in a 1-3 min conversation as to why she knocked him back after date 2 when things seemed so great =/= becoming his dating coach.

 

OP - just need to learn to live with it.

[TouchedByViolet]

When people act dishonestly it is because it makes their life easier. Women feel uncomfortable, awkward and unhappy when turning down most men. They don't like taking the initiative or hurting feelings. Lying allows them to not feel bad about their actions.

[GTO06]

Yea, I know that it is something that has to be dealt with in the dating world unfortunately. At least I realize after reading some comments on hear that obviously I'm not the only person dealing with it. Me being new to dating I do have a lot to learn, but too bad things are different though; so much unnecessary grey area in dating.

 

Assumptions sure seem to be quick to made on these sites though; you don't know me and I don't know you, so just don't make them. I don't have anything against women, but truth be told I have met few in my life that actually deserve my respect. As with anyone despite gender, respect is not granted, it has to earned and to me honesty in general is a big part of that.

 

Logical discussion is apparently a lost cause with most of the common public these days, so I'll just keep fighting the good fight like everyone else in the dating world then. Thanks to those few who at least attempted to positively help.

 

Good day to all

[maysj18]

Of course not, but from the little info they gave it sounded like the end result could of been avoided. She even said they had a kid because she was just "being nice"? That sounds psychotic on its own

 

Uh, no. What she meant was that the woman was nice BECAUSE they had a kid. Like, before they broke up.

[Imajerk17]

GTO06, you might not be liking the responses you are getting but that could be because you yourself are actually very vague, and so people are answering questions you didn't mean to ask. For example, I still am not sure how your follow-up communication actually goes with a girl after a date.

 

As in, you go out with a girl. When and how do you suggest a second date? And when (or if) you do, what does she typically say? Does she actually get back to you w and say no thanks w not much of an explanation, or does she not respond to you altogether, or does she give you the put-off (e.g., "I am really busy this week but maybe next" or something like that and then a fade or a poof)?

 

It would also help if you could give an example.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Imajerk17

[todreaminblue]

do you ever feel things happen fro a reason whether or not they involve a person being completely honest with you why you will not be continuing dating .....it is more the fact it wasn't going to work in the long run....the less time you waste on a no go .....the more time you have to find the right person for you...if you want self improvement the only way you can do that is to look at yourself and see where you want to change that is why it is called self....improvement, someone else cant do that for you especially someone who has only known you for such a little while so in other words doesnt really know you at all...

 

i always do more than two dates with a guy i have decided to date so i can know them better.that's my personal way of going on with dating.......but if that date were to say to me i dont believe in god...or ridicules faith...then i know theres no need to get to know them ...we are going to clash big time if i were to continue to date them...it has nothing to do with them but more compatability ...just that i know what i am looking for isnt likely to be ever there..... and it isnt with them i should stay......you dont have to take rejection as a negative against you.....its about the other person most of the time especially if it is one or two dates that you have been on.........deb

[Phoe]

Well, personally, I have only ever rejected 2 guys.

 

One because I was already seeing someone, which I told him.

 

The second because he was downright crude and vile about the way he asked, I made it VERY clear that I did not appreciate it in the slightest and was irritated by his behavior, and the soon to follow harassment case at work after he physically touched me definitely put the nail in the coffin in making sure he knew 100% that I would not tolerate his behavior.

 

I can't say how I'd act in a different case though. If I just plain felt nothing towards a guy after dating him I feel like I'd probably just say that, because honestly that's the easiest option. To just explain that I don't feel it, that it's not working. Trying to come up with something else seems more difficult IMO.

[preraph]

I get lynched everytime I say this, but women are just more empathetic than a lot of guys are and don't want to hurt your feelings. I wish they were more ruthless because they bring on problems that way. And a lot of guys are dishonest in a totally different way and always with the same goal in mind. So they got no room to talk about honesty in dating situations.

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[aussietigerwolf]

with the attitudes the op has shown here then I am not surprised the women are not giving him his "honest" explanation... I bet they're scared of his reaction if they tell him something he doesn't want to hear.

[Candy_Pants]

Wow, amazing how rude people can be on these sites, or maybe again it's just women. Guess most people just can't understand the concept of honesty.

 

Hahahaha she's just being honest... Which is exactly what you wanted.

 

Guess some people just can't handle honesty.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

They aren't honest with you because they can sense that you would not only brush off their reasons, but you would then try to argue with them about how wrong they are about you.

 

They know you would try to get logical with them and try blaming someone or something else for your shortcomings.

 

Basically, they can tell that you are an A-Hole that would cause too much trouble to be worth it.

 

Truth is, you probably can't handle the truth.

[BikerAccnt]

A morbid but perfect example. If she would have been consistently honest from the beginning instead of dropping it all at once after not being honest for so long, that probably wouldn't of happened now would it?[/quote

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WTF? And with an attitude like that you wonder why women aren't honest with you? Sheesh,.

[Gaeta]

I think it's a bad idea to shape yourself as per what your date would tell you.

 

Girl 1 may tell you she finds you not laid back enough then girl 2 tells you you're too laid back. What are you suppose to learn from this?

 

That reminds of a story my ex-boyfriend told me. To me he was perfect, he swept me off my feet with his kindness. The woman before me dumped him on date 2 for not being aggressive enough.

 

You can only be yourself and date till you find someone that can't get enough of you just the way you are.

 

Also, why I don't go into a detailed explanation why I don't want a second date is simple. When ever I explained why they tried to negotiate with me instead of just accepting my explanation. Bottom line, the whys are just excuses, the real reason why these women don't accept a second date is they did not feel a connection with you. Accept it for that. No matter how awkward you may be, if a woman click with you, silly stuff won't keep her from seeing you again.

[BlueIris]

Ok, so I'm pretty new to the world of dating, but the one thing that I have found that irritates me the most about women is that you simply can't get the truth about anything out of them. Even the women that say they are super honest are just flat out hypocrites. In fact, I never in my life met a truly honest woman including any friends or family members.

 

Even on the simplest level, lets say they decline a second date or something and you just want to know why purely for self improvement. They are NEVER straight with you and always give you the run around with no direct answer. Why can't they just say what the problem is? How do women ever expect us to become better daters if they never tell us what they didn't like about it?

 

So what's the deal ladies, why is it so agonizing for you to just tell it like it is?

 

I don't think people- men or women- are "terrified" or "agonize" over being honest.

 

If you have no honest women in your family and have never known an honest woman, this sounds like a family of origin problem and something to take to therapy.

 

Also, how do we ever know if someone is telling the truth or not? "I'm not interested" or "There's just no chemistry" might be honest answers.

 

For the most part, we're all on our own to figure out what we do wrong in all settings- school, work, friendships, family relationships and romantic relationships. Watch and listen to how people react to what you say and do. Learn what different reactions mean- if someone pulls back, if someone leans in, eye contact, etc. Much of learning about social interaction is self-awareness.

[SoleMate]

OP, you have been given the gift of radical and constructive honesty throughout this thread. Honesty is something you (claim to) treasure. Can you actually see the honesty here? Can you see that men and women are near unanimous in giving you the same message? Each with their own angle or examples, but the same message. This IS truth.

 

If you are willing to truly read these answers with an open mind, you could actually find what you've been searching for. You need a new definition of honesty, and you also need to open your mind to logic and reasoning and differing opinions. Those are all big challenges but I am confident you can do it if you try.

[Toodaloo]

I will tell you why. Because a lot of people only hear what they want to hear and not what is being said.

 

Around 4 or 5 months ago I went to see a friend. I had recently split up with my ex (as in days) and I hadn't seen my friend for a long time finally had some spare time and went to see him. During that visit we had a conversation about how I wanted to be on my own for a few months, how I wasn't interested in dating at the time and I also pointed out that I viewed him as a friend and nothing more and never would. The visit ended pretty abruptly after he grabbed hold of my backside in a non joking way and told me I had a fine set of buns. Thanks for the compliment but you can let go now! Then came the texts about his underwear and really personal flirty stuff.

 

I am now really peeved as I had to go radio silence on him to get it to stop, now I have lost a friend, a good friend that I have known for decades.

 

Blunt, subtle, nice or nasty it really doesn't matter - some guys just will not listen.

 

Can I make a suggestion? Go and do things you like and spend time with people you like, look after yourself and be yourself... then the rest will happen... it may take a few attempts but eventually it will happen. The best chaps I have dated have been the ones met through mutual friends/ hobbies. Most of those I am still great friends with even though it ended.

[TXGuy]

You seem like a logical guy who is struggling with the social rules of dating, so I'll try to give you a logical explanation. If you have only dated someone once, you are both practically still strangers. In society, you generally owe strangers (and strangers generally owe you) civility. That is it. You don't owe them respect, they don't owe you truth (certainly not complex truth). If either side does not want a second date, it is generally acknowledged by society that the reason was 'we are not a match.' It can be unspoken or spoken, but that is sufficient civility and sufficient truth. No one has the obligation to further explain why it was not a match for them. There is a laundry list of reasons why it should not and does not matter. It is simply socially accepted.

 

Before you respond with an argument that you always share the truth (and that makes you a better person), I would go so far to say I bet that is not the case. There are countless shortcuts society makes so that interactions between strangers and near strangers go smoothly. When the cashier at the convenience store asks "how are you today?" That is simply a greeting. It is not an invitation to spend the next ten minutes discussing how you are. The societal response is something along the line of 'fine thanks, and you?' Chit chat is allowed until the transaction is completed and then it stops.i bet you would even agree with this. You do not owe the cashier honesty and spend the next ten minutes discussing your grandmothers recent death or the fact that your boss is going to give you an unfair evaluation next week because your coworker sabotaged your project. That is simply too much information for a stranger.

 

The same applies to first dates. Most don't work out. Generally it is not one thing that makes one side decide no. You can't expect them to put in any effort to critique your date when they no longer want to pursue things with you. You might be able to get feedback from a female friend, but generally friends don't want to give negative feedback (even constructive) due to people's tendancy to 'shoot the messenger.' In fact, you demonstrated a bit of this shoot the messenger attitude in some of your previous posts.

 

To sum up, logically it does not make sense for the dumper to give negative feedback. There is no upside for the dumper, only downside. Further, that is acceptable because as a virtual stranger, they have no duty to provide feedback, so they are doing nothing wrong by not providing it.

[Zeurich]

Yea, I know that it is something that has to be dealt with in the dating world unfortunately. At least I realize after reading some comments on hear that obviously I'm not the only person dealing with it. Me being new to dating I do have a lot to learn, but too bad things are different though; so much unnecessary grey area in dating.

Well there are tips I can give for you. If you really want to find the true partner. you need to have thick skin to deal with online dating. Don't let them know that you are believing them what ever they say at the first chat or email. Ask questions are you on twitter? Are you on face book? Do you like social media? Can I see your child age photo? This kind of questions keep you away from fakers.

The fact if some one says I am not on social media I don't like it that means they are hiding something. It does not mean that who ever does not like it hiding something, there are true old type people are there who use big book to keep accounts instead of excel. And some people does not want to be public too but most of the population use multimedia so you should not worry about old fashioned.

Assumptions sure seem to be quick to made on these sites though; you don't know me and I don't know you, so just don't make them. I don't have anything against women, but truth be told I have met few in my life that actually deserve my respect. As with anyone despite gender, respect is not granted, it has to earned and to me honesty in general is a big part of that.

Don't forget that online dating is hard till you get to know the person. And also some people are not comfortable saying thing in the first few chat terms. But to be honest, what you say is right no one knows who they are so it is very easy to misunderstand or go with assumptions.First please be patient. Give them time to ask questions, also tell about your self.

 

Logical discussion is apparently a lost cause with most of the common public these days, so I'll just keep fighting the good fight like everyone else in the dating world then. Thanks to those few who at least attempted to positively help.

No don't fight be your self who you are for real there too. Just ignore the fakers and the woman with attitude " my life has nothing to do with any one else" then you may find the right person! Good luck friend!

[TXGuy]

Well there are tips I can give for you. If you really want to find the true partner. you need to have thick skin to deal with online dating.

 

Don't let them know that you are believing them what ever they say at the first chat or email. Ask questions are you on twitter? Are you on face book? Do you like social media? Can I see your child age photo? This kind of questions keep you away from fakers.

 

Good luck friend!

 

I agree this guy needs to have a thick skin.

 

I disagree that he should ask for social media links or a childhood picture. I'm pretty open minded, but I would close any woman who asked me that prior to meeting a stranger. I bet most women would as well.

 

The good news is this guy has had a pretty good run of first dates/meets. He must be doing something well enough (or adequately). He should try to build on that.

 

The area he needs to improve is on these first dates. It is hard to tell him what he needs to change without observing it. That is likely why he is frustrated with the lack of feedback. What makes it tougher for him is that he cannot expect to get feedback from these first dates. I think he will just have to keep plugging along with trial and error unless he has a friend (male or female) that is willing to be a dating 'coach' for him.

[serial muse]

GTO06, you might not be liking the responses you are getting but that could be because you yourself are actually very vague, and so people are answering questions you didn't mean to ask. For example, I still am not sure how your follow-up communication actually goes with a girl after a date.

 

As in, you go out with a girl. When and how do you suggest a second date? And when (or if) you do, what does she typically say? Does she actually get back to you w and say no thanks w not much of an explanation, or does she not respond to you altogether, or does she give you the put-off (e.g., "I am really busy this week but maybe next" or something like that and then a fade or a poof)?

 

It would also help if you could give an example.

 

This, eggsactly.

 

OP, your first post was very vague in everything but its condemnation of women as a group. That isn't any kind of logical thinking I'm familiar with. You want productive answers, give us something to work with. If your only question is "why are women so dishonest?"...well, that's just a rant, and it's alienating and not very convincing. There's nothing meaningful or revealing about your history with which to engage in a discussion.

 

In short, sometimes the problem is you. Might want to give this advice-asking another go. Especially considering you say you want to learn about yourself.

Edited August 11, 2014 by serial muse