kjohn Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Yesterday my BF and I got into a pretty heated argument and it left me feeling hurt and heartbroken. I'm not sure what to do to move forward. Here'e the nutshell version… We have been dating almost 4 years. All of my family lives out of state and I don't see them often. He has met my parents a couple of times, but his family has never met them. My parents are in town for a week and I thought it would be a nice idea to have a BBQ so his family could meet my parents. Scheduling has been a nightmare, trying to coordinate everyone's availability. I finally found a date that worked for everyone and thought it was all set, until his sister-in-law changed the plans without consulting me because she wants to take her 2 nieces back to school shopping and the afternoon of our BBQ was the only time that worked for her, so she made those plans with the nieces (who are all supposed to be at the BBQ) without consulting me or my BF and then told us about it after the fact when she called to change the time that she had originally told us she could be here. I was hurt, offended and aggravated by what she did. When I tried talking about it to my BF to get his feedback on how it should be handled, he really could not have cared less. He had absolutely no feeling about the fact that what she did was rude and he basically said "oh well, let everyone come whenever they come." That's a guy thing, I suppose. As I tried to explain to him why that would not work (because of issues that I already knew about with others' availability) it turned into a argument where he accused me of trying to cause trouble with his family. During the argument he said some things that made 2 things very clear to me… 1. His priority and his loyalty are with his family, not me. OK, I suppose this one makes some amount of sense since I am only his GF, not his wife but we live together and are in the same kind of committed relationship that married people are in, so I guess I thought we were a team and his loyalty would be to me. Silly me. 2. He seems to have a very low opinion of me. He brought up a few other issues where I had interactions with his family over the past couple of months and, although he never said anything at the time, he did not like how I handled them and felt that I had some sort of ulterior motives. The thing about my BF is that once he believes something to be true, you can NEVER convince him otherwise. So my trying to explain to him that what he thought were my intentions, were never my actual intentions, is completely a waste of time because he will never believe it. So now I'm left knowing where I stand and what he thinks of me and it doesn't feel so good. Not sure where to go from here, but one thing is for sure. This is THE LAST time that I will ever be responsible for trying to plan anything with his family. He can do all the planning from now on. I'm out. At this point, even if he apologizes and tries to smooth things over, I will never be able to forget what he said.
WhatYouWantToHear Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 he said some things that made 2 things very clear to me…...His priority and his loyalty are with his family, not me...He seems to have a very low opinion of me...I will never be able to forget what he said. While I believe you won't be able to forget what you think you heard, I'm pretty confident that's not exactly what he said. I'm sure you feel the way you feel, but I'm also certain the intentions and thoughts you are ascribing to him are not correct. Did he explicitly state his priorities and his opionion of you? Or did you hear a few words and jump to those conclusions? Its been a while after that discussion, why don't you revist it with him directly ask him if those 2 points are how he feels?
whichwayisup Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 I would have just left it alone, just let his sister come with the kids later on once they finished shopping. It actually is more important that your parents and his parents meet, than siblings, that's probably why he didn't care much or think it was a big deal. he did not like how I handled them and felt that I had some sort of ulterior motives. This is what concerns me and how he is with his family vs you as an outsider. Seems you're not 'included' on some level. What was it you did/said that made him feel you had ulterior motives and what happened that he thinks you handled them badly?
No Limit Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Guess it's time for a more apologetic talk between you two. No doubt you're hurt, but you should try to keep your feelings from running you over as long as your BF makes no 'mistakes' in how he wants to handle this from now on. I'd seriously reconsider your relationship though if all he does the next time you two talk is rugsweeping, pushing blame to each other...
Author kjohn Posted August 11, 2014 Author Posted August 11, 2014 While I believe you won't be able to forget what you think you heard, I'm pretty confident that's not exactly what he said. I'm sure you feel the way you feel, but I'm also certain the intentions and thoughts you are ascribing to him are not correct. Did he explicitly state his priorities and his opionion of you? Or did you hear a few words and jump to those conclusions? Its been a while after that discussion, why don't you revist it with him directly ask him if those 2 points are how he feels? I suppose there is some truth here. He did not explicitly state his priorities or say the exact words "I have a low opinion of you," but he did say the exact words "You think everyone is out to get you," which I tool great offense to and that is what left me feeling as though he has a low opinion of me. Of course when I revisited it with him he says that is not how he feels.
Author kjohn Posted August 11, 2014 Author Posted August 11, 2014 I would have just left it alone, just let his sister come with the kids later on once they finished shopping. It actually is more important that your parents and his parents meet, than siblings, that's probably why he didn't care much or think it was a big deal. This is what concerns me and how he is with his family vs you as an outsider. Seems you're not 'included' on some level. What was it you did/said that made him feel you had ulterior motives and what happened that he thinks you handled them badly? Actually, his parents are not in the picture. His mother died many years ago and his father lives far away, so this whole thing has always been about my parents meeting his siblings, who he cares very much about. It's funny that you say that it seems that I am not included because there are certain members of his family who do make me feel as though they do not consider me "family." I have mentioned this to him in the past and he actually brought it back up in this case and used it as part of his argument that "I think everyone is out to get me."
Author kjohn Posted August 11, 2014 Author Posted August 11, 2014 Guess it's time for a more apologetic talk between you two. No doubt you're hurt, but you should try to keep your feelings from running you over as long as your BF makes no 'mistakes' in how he wants to handle this from now on. I'd seriously reconsider your relationship though if all he does the next time you two talk is rugsweeping, pushing blame to each other... I tried to approach him with a more apologetic talk yesterday. It didn't go so well. I am always open to apologize, even if I feel I have done nothing wrong. To me, saying "I'm sorry" and really meaning it is very powerful. To him, he is quite stubborn and refuses to apologize unless he feels that he has something to apologize for, and even then it's not the easiest thing for him. I apologized to him. I explained to him that, even though he did not mean to, his words really hurt my feelings and left me feeling badly. He said "I don't know what you want from me." I said "I would like you to apologize for hurting my feelings." I think that's pretty clear and direct. He refused to apologize because he does not agree that my feelings should have been hurt by what he said. I went through counseling after my divorce several years back. The one thing that sticks with me the most from my counseling is that you don't ever have to apologize for your feelings. Your feelings are your feelings. They are what they are. You are allowed to have them and nobody can tell you whether they are right or wrong. So, I don't agree that a person should only apologize if they agree that it is ok that your feelings were hurt. If I tell you that you hurt my feelings, you should apologize for it, and vice versa. That's how I feel, but now on top of having to get over the original argument, I now have to get over the fact that I will never get an apology. If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm not really good with unresolved issues. They tend to aggravate me to no end. Without an apology on both of our parts, I feel as though this is an unresolved issue. I had enough respect for him to apologize for my part in this. I am not getting the same in response. That really sucks…..and at this point, I feel like the damage is already done. At the risk of sounding like a whiny toddler, I don't really want an apology that I have to beg for.
whichwayisup Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 Actually, his parents are not in the picture. His mother died many years ago and his father lives far away, so this whole thing has always been about my parents meeting his siblings, who he cares very much about. It's funny that you say that it seems that I am not included because there are certain members of his family who do make me feel as though they do not consider me "family." I have mentioned this to him in the past and he actually brought it back up in this case and used it as part of his argument that "I think everyone is out to get me." The thing is, you two aren't married even though you're living together. They don't view you as his wife or someone that is going to be in their family some day. It's not all their fault, it's his for standing up to them and telling them to treat you better and make you feel like a part of their family. The real issue is though, how he views you and what the future is between you two, and that is displayed throughout his family. Dating four years, how long have you lived with him? Has there been any talk of getting married?
whichwayisup Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 The dynamic and you most of the time apologizing and him rarely is a problem too and how he makes you feel. Dismissed and makes it seem like he is the king who is never wrong so though he says stuff that hurts you, his ego and attitude prevents him from opening up and being kinder towards you. 1
TXGuy Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 While you do not have to apologize for any feelings you have, he does not have to apologize every time you irrationally feel you are wronged. If I understand your original post correctly, you wanted to organize a cookout while your parents are in town. You invited your boyfriends extended family. One of them (his sister and her kids) made other plans for the time you picked (perhaps after indicating she was available). You are angry at his sister and want your boyfriend to...? ...make his sister change her plans? I'm on the bf side here. I think you are being entirely unreasonable and controlling (did you apologize for being unreasonable and controlling? I doubt it). You can only invite people, you can't make them come. You can't expect your bf to make them come. It sounds like the sister is going to stop by for part of it, so what is the problem? Eta: it's his sister in law, someone he has even less influence over. Which makes your position even less reasonable. 2
d0nnivain Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 Your 1st mistake was trying to find a date that worked for everyone. There is no such thing. You can never please all of the people all the time. When his SIL made other plans you should simply have said, OK stop by when you are done. Yes you were allowed to feel hurt but your BF didn't purposely tell her to screw up your plans. His attitude seems like any guy's reaction to me. My husband probably would have been like "Oh we're having a BBQ?" You complain about his stubbornness & closed mindedness yet state you will "NEVER" be able to forget what he says. Seems to me he's not the only one with those traits in your relationship. Learning how other people's families interact is a tricky spot in blending families. I still scratch my head in dumbstruck awe at some of the things DH's family does. I would have done them so much differently but it's not my place to force my values & choices on them. You are blowing all of this way out of proportion because you didn't get your way.
TXGuy Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 A potential solution: if the SIL and kids don't make it to the cookout, perhaps they could stop by and say hello another day/time. Then your parents still get to meet them. Problem solved without drama. 1
Author kjohn Posted August 12, 2014 Author Posted August 12, 2014 While you do not have to apologize for any feelings you have, he does not have to apologize every time you irrationally feel you are wronged. If I understand your original post correctly, you wanted to organize a cookout while your parents are in town. You invited your boyfriends extended family. One of them (his sister and her kids) made other plans for the time you picked (perhaps after indicating she was available). You are angry at his sister and want your boyfriend to...? ...make his sister change her plans? I'm on the bf side here. I think you are being entirely unreasonable and controlling (did you apologize for being unreasonable and controlling? I doubt it). You can only invite people, you can't make them come. You can't expect your bf to make them come. It sounds like the sister is going to stop by for part of it, so what is the problem? Eta: it's his sister in law, someone he has even less influence over. Which makes your position even less reasonable. To clarify….I never asked my BF to do anything. I certainly never asked him to try to make anyone come to the BBQ or change their plans. I was simply venting to my partner in life that I felt that what she did was wrong and trying to get his input about how we should proceed with the plan for the day. I guess asking for his input was a mistake because he could not have cared less and the whole thing turned into an argument that really was needless in the first place when I look back on it. The point is that during that argument he said some very hurtful things to me. Yes I organized a BBQ. Yes, it was quite difficult to find a date that worked for everyone. After I finally found a date that did work for everyone and it was set in stone and everyone had committed to it, the SIL made other plans, telling the nieces that it was ok for them to go shopping with her instead of coming to the BBQ as planned because she had already cleared it with me and BF, which was not true. We knew nothing of it until after the plans had already been changed. That is what aggravated me and I still find that behavior rude and disrespectful, but I am over that at this point. What's done is done. The BBQ is still on and everyone is coming whenever they come. Fine. The issue that I am upset about at this point is the hurtful things BF said to me. He hurt my feelings. You say that he does not have to apologize every time I "irrationally feel wronged." I'm sorry but I strongly disagree! If I were talking to somebody and the person I was talking to said to me "what you just said hurt my feelings" the very first thing that I would do is say "Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry! I didn't mean to hurt your feelings." Feelings do not require validation. When you hurt someone's feelings, especially when it was unintentional, as he said it was, you apologize for it. Period. We had a second discussion because I went to him to try to put some closure to this issue so we could just move on. He said "I don't know what you want me to do." I said "I would like you to apologize for hurting my feelings." He still would not apologize. At this point I have accepted the fact that I will not be getting an apology from him and that he apparently will only apologize if HE feels that MY feelings are worthy of an apology. So, I guess he is the boss of my feelings! LOL I'm really over the whole thing at this point, but I am disappointed that he couldn't muster up a simple apology for the things that he said to me.
2sunny Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 It isn't worth it - a guy who won't ever apologize is a guy who refuses to acknowledge your feelings. It's a very long life with a partner who participates that way. Consider yourself lucky to get out of this relationship! Date men with compassion and understanding of others.
d0nnivain Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 The issue that I am upset about at this point is the hurtful things BF said to me. He hurt my feelings. We had a second discussion because I went to him to try to put some closure to this issue so we could just move on. He said "I don't know what you want me to do." I said "I would like you to apologize for hurting my feelings." He still would not apologize. That's a different problem. He asked you for a solution. You gave him a solution. He refused to compromise. While you were off blowing things up out of proportion he could have easily defused the situation by taking you in his arms & saying things will be alright & that it's OK if SIL & the kids didn't come. He should have acknowledged the effort you put in to organizing the BBQ even if he like us thought you were going overboard with the emphasis you were putting on this & your desire for perfection that was never going to happen. Your unreasonable & unrealistic expectations made you bonkers but instead of being part of the solution & consoling you, he made it worse. Now that you have calmed a bit & have realized that SIL's attendance isn't the end of the world he is refusing to acknowledge his role in adding to your stress. That is a much bigger problem then weather or not your parents get to meet SIL & the kids. Like you I had a tendency to over inflate stuff like this & make myself crazy. Over the years I have come to recognize this behavior & can sometimes calm myself down but even when I go off the deep end, my husband throws me a life preserver; he doesn't add to my stress. If you think you can prevent a drama like this in the future by recognizing your own behavior, fine. Otherwise if you continue this relationship it will be an on-going pattern: you flying off the handle & him making it worse. 1
TXGuy Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 At this point I have accepted the fact that I will not be getting an apology from him and that he apparently will only apologize if HE feels that MY feelings are worthy of an apology. So, I guess he is the boss of my feelings! LOL I get the impression your bf would apologize if he thought he said or did something wrong (I'm not positive, but I have the impression you might agree with that sentence). It appears your bf reviewed the interaction you and he had and concluded he did not say or do anything wrong (you might even agree with that sentence). From what you have written so far, I see nothing he has done that was wrong or apology worthy. You seem to want to throw out a trump card of 'your feelings were hurt' without being able to explain what he did to hurt your feelings. Despite this, you think he should apologize when he (and maybe even you) does not think he did anything wrong. That seems unreasonable and controlling to me. Feeding irrational behavior and demands with an apology when one is not warranted is simply inviting more irrational and unreasonable behavior in the future. I think your bf is setting healthy boundaries and I applaud his backbone.
MissBee Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 To be honest, you wanted his parents to meet yours so I'm a bit confused as to why you're so upset that his sister-in-law and nieces had to go shopping when they aren't really central to the parents meeting. I can understand where for him he didn't see the big deal as admittedly upon reading it I was like huh, it wasn't like you planned some sit down dinner for the family or the sister-in-law and nieces were the guests of honor and they flaked... it's a BBQ andd a BBQ is generally a chill event in my experience and people pop in and out at their convenience and as long as his parents and yours could attend, the people you wanted to meet each other, why the big fuss? So I have to say I get how for him it might have seemed like you were blowing it out of proportion and being unnecessarily contentious. However, I know that wasn't your intention, just saying I can see how for him it could have come off that way and if you have a tendency to generally be more easily upset and persnickety about these things how he might read it as you causing unnecessary trouble. Point is: whether it was your intention or not misunderstandings and hurt feelings happen ALL the time in relationships and all you can do is address them OR allow it to build up resentment. I'd start a conversation about it and explain to him why it was a fuss and also maybe explain how you see where he's coming from even though it wasn't your intention and I agree...have him be the one to lead the coordinating with his family for now, or at least apply a more relaxed approach. Perhaps dinner with the parents would be an easier thing to coordinate than an entire family gathering anyway.
Author kjohn Posted August 14, 2014 Author Posted August 14, 2014 I get the impression your bf would apologize if he thought he said or did something wrong (I'm not positive, but I have the impression you might agree with that sentence). It appears your bf reviewed the interaction you and he had and concluded he did not say or do anything wrong (you might even agree with that sentence). From what you have written so far, I see nothing he has done that was wrong or apology worthy. You seem to want to throw out a trump card of 'your feelings were hurt' without being able to explain what he did to hurt your feelings. Despite this, you think he should apologize when he (and maybe even you) does not think he did anything wrong. That seems unreasonable and controlling to me. Feeding irrational behavior and demands with an apology when one is not warranted is simply inviting more irrational and unreasonable behavior in the future. I think your bf is setting healthy boundaries and I applaud his backbone. Not quite sure where you are getting any of that. If you go back and re-read what I originally posted you will see that I very clearly said that when I went to him to express my frustration that his SIL had changed the plans it turned into an argument. During that argument he went on a bit of rant and said some things that hurt my feelings. I will not repeat the exact words that he said but he basically attacked my character and left me feeling as though he has a very low opinion of me. That hurt my feelings. I don't see how he could have walked away from the conversation thinking that he did or said nothing wrong when I very clearly said the exact words "You hurt my feelings." There is nothing confusing about that, in my opinion. I don't see how it is irrational or controlling to expect somebody that you love to apologize to you for hurting your feelings, but you seem hell-bent on making me out to be irrational and controlling. I will say it again, I don't see anything irrational or controlling about hoping for an apology when my feelings have been hurt. The second time we spoke he said "I don't know what you want from me." I said "I would like you to apologize for hurting my feelings." Again, very clear. Nothing to be confused about. I didn't say "YOU WILL APOLOGIZE TO ME RIGHT THIS VERY MINUTE!" That would be irrational and controlling. I asked nicely for an apology. I didn't get one. Moving on.
Author kjohn Posted August 14, 2014 Author Posted August 14, 2014 To be honest, you wanted his parents to meet yours so I'm a bit confused as to why you're so upset that his sister-in-law and nieces had to go shopping when they aren't really central to the parents meeting. I can understand where for him he didn't see the big deal as admittedly upon reading it I was like huh, it wasn't like you planned some sit down dinner for the family or the sister-in-law and nieces were the guests of honor and they flaked... it's a BBQ andd a BBQ is generally a chill event in my experience and people pop in and out at their convenience and as long as his parents and yours could attend, the people you wanted to meet each other, why the big fuss? So I have to say I get how for him it might have seemed like you were blowing it out of proportion and being unnecessarily contentious." Re-read the thread. The BBQ never included his parents. His mother passed away years ago and his father lives far away. The BBQ was always about his siblings. There are exactly 7 people invited to this BBQ. When the SIL changed the plans, it affected 3 of those people….nearly half the guest list. I guess that's why I was aggravated.
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