ms321 Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 I'm a 30 y/o guy who has been trying to find a girlfriend for a few years. It hasn't gone well. I've gone on many dates, but usually between 1-4 dates my date would dump me or disappear. I've tried various strategies like living a more interesting life, trying hard on dates, not trying hard on dates, not trying at all on dates, being myself/not myself on dates, being funny/not funny on dates, etc, etc. But maybe, I think the overall problem is that I don't believe a woman can like me for who I am. (I see the failed dating attempts as evidence of this) interestingly, when I pretend to be confident, I tend to do better on dates but after a few dates it's hard to maintain the confidence facade and the relationship fails. My life is fine in most other areas (good career, good health, etc) I'm trying to gain more dating confidence, but don't know how. In other areas of my life like my career I find that once I get some success I gain a little confidence which snowballs positively, until today I have a great job and earns over 6 figures, for example. (I know income isn't everything, just using it as an example). But, in dating I keep being rejected after a few dates, which destroys my confidence. How can I break out of this cycle? Is it possible to build confidence without success? How can I learn from my failures on dating if all my attempts end in failure?
Assasda Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 This is a good post. Because you realize that you are the common denominator and you dont play a victim. Youre trying to solve the problem. THe problem is that, youre looking for a girlfriend. That should not be your no. 1 priority, whether this is covert or overt. Having fun and enjoying the person should be your number 1 priority * You cant trying to fake this, by deep down wanting a girlfriend, and fun coming second, you you'll end up with the fake confidence thing that youre talking about. * Also, You are never "dumped". The only time when youre "dumped" is when youre a complete jerk, and women dont want to be with you. You should just accept that you and the lady arnt compatible. Value yourself, know that you have something to offer, and that its her loss for not knowing you. I recommend reading "Emotional Intelligence: Why It Can Matter More Than IQ" by Daniel Goleman & "Exuberance: The Passion for Life" by Kay Redfield Jamison 7
Versacehottie Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 I'm a 30 y/o guy who has been trying to find a girlfriend for a few years. It hasn't gone well. I've gone on many dates, but usually between 1-4 dates my date would dump me or disappear. I've tried various strategies like living a more interesting life, trying hard on dates, not trying hard on dates, not trying at all on dates, being myself/not myself on dates, being funny/not funny on dates, etc, etc. But maybe, I think the overall problem is that I don't believe a woman can like me for who I am. (I see the failed dating attempts as evidence of this) interestingly, when I pretend to be confident, I tend to do better on dates but after a few dates it's hard to maintain the confidence facade and the relationship fails. My life is fine in most other areas (good career, good health, etc) I'm trying to gain more dating confidence, but don't know how. In other areas of my life like my career I find that once I get some success I gain a little confidence which snowballs positively, until today I have a great job and earns over 6 figures, for example. (I know income isn't everything, just using it as an example). But, in dating I keep being rejected after a few dates, which destroys my confidence. How can I break out of this cycle? Is it possible to build confidence without success? How can I learn from my failures on dating if all my attempts end in failure? First of all, I think you are being too hard on yourself and critical of yourself--which then becomes a perpetual cycle of perceived "failure". Basically i think you need to "reframe" what is happening while you are dating in your head. When you are "acting" confident, it MAY slightly be an act BUT it is still a version of you! And take ownership of it as one side of you, in a good way. So it's not you most natural state but the more you use it, it will be. I think a few dates in a row IS some version of success and you have to, as assada said, look at it when it doesn't go further as incompatibility. I 100% agree that you have to stop looking for a girlfriend and just give yourself the mission of dating for fun. One day one of those will stick for both of you. When I hear people say a scenario like your own, I think that they are being "too nice" and "accommodating". Why not try to go on some dates where your only mission is to see if the girl has what YOU might find interesting for a second date. No need to feel that she is evaluating YOU. You need to turn it around and tell yourself that you are evaluating these girls to see if they would work into your life. I don't get nervous telling that to nice people because it will just even things out which might be the edge you need. I doubt it will take you into being a jerk. I think you are doing the right thing by wanting to learn from things that did not go the way you wanted or expected. But i don't think you should see them as failures. The best way to have "success" thus building your confidence is break it into smaller steps. You are looking for the big finale--a girlfriend in a major way (who could be the one?). Scale your measure of success back into smaller steps. Tangible things (number of dates, number of set ups, girl initiating number of times, etc etc) and intangibles (having fun, wanting to see her again, being able to get thru a date without wondering what she thought of you but only what you thought of her, etc etc). I could think of some more measures if it wasn't late but hopefully you get the idea. And then keep working on the things that are indirectly related to dating but not directly: your social plans with friends, a confident presence at work, striving for more, self-improvement, hobbies, friendships and family. If these areas are truly developed, as much as a person wants a girlfriend deep down, the reality is she'd have to be pretty special to fit into your busy, full life. And you know what will happen when this is the case, there she will be. Like attracts like. Good luck! 1
somedude81 Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Telling a guy in his 30's to stop trying to get a GF is really bad advice. It's almost as if you are suggesting that a girl will just pop up in his life and want to be with him. If such a thing was going to happen, most likely it would have happened already. ms321: Dating/relationship confidence and life confidence are two completely different things. So don't feel bad. The only way to break out of the cycle is to start having some actual success with women. The first way to start doing that, is to learn how to be attractive to women. There is a ton of information about that on the internet. Number one is to work on your appearance.
Dork Vader Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 I would also like to suggest you read "the six pillars of self esteem" just google it. It's a great book that goes into great details about what confidence, self esteem and self worth are. When you go on dates your goal should not be a "girl friend" your goal should simply be to have fun and get to know the date. 1
Dork Vader Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Telling a guy in his 30's to stop trying to get a GF is really bad advice. It's almost as if you are suggesting that a girl will just pop up in his life and want to be with him. If such a thing was going to happen, most likely it would have happened already. ms321: Dating/relationship confidence and life confidence are two completely different things. So don't feel bad. The only way to break out of the cycle is to start having some actual success with women. The first way to start doing that, is to learn how to be attractive to women. There is a ton of information about that on the internet. Number one is to work on your appearance. I don't agree I'm 30 and I gave up trying to find a "girl friend" a few years ago. It was not until I got into the "just have fun" mentality that I actually started finding relationships that went beyond flings. 7
SJC2008 Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Plenty of people can't be alone, they date when their divorces aren't even final and ones who aren't married are shacked up soon after brrakups. They don't have a problem finding someone else but men who struggle are told don't make it a goal/priority to have a gf. Seems like it was for those other people I just mentioned and it never hurt them. Why did they succeed?? There are *tons* of relationship dynamics. Raniging from co--dependants who can't be away from each other to controlling/abusive, healthy etc. These people still find eachother! The main thing you need to date successfully is to 1) Know what league you're in: When a woman is attracted to you the battle is mostly won. 2) Be sociable: You don't have to be the life of the party, be interested in what people have to say. 3) Be "confident": You don't have to be alpha or a leader just be comfortable in your skin (I struggle with this and weaer my insecurities on my sleeve). Lastly, look deep and try to find out if you're sabatging yourself without knowing it. I've run from a couple women who have liked me and chased unavailable women. Date women who like you! 3
morrowrd Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 I understand the desire to find a girlfriend, completely. However, getting from point A to point B, sometimes means more than just asking girls out on date after date. Patterns of failure should mean, at least to me, that your system isn't working. The underlying factor is self-esteem...when you don't have it, you don't have a hell of alot of confidence, with girls or otherwise. Sure, there are plenty of guys out there with low self esteem with girlfriends, must be there's other balancing factors such as super good looks, or something else appealing. In your case however, you need to probably fix a few things before you start succeeding in the girlfriend dept. You will solve more issues in your life most likely by taking this route, and break the cycle of setting yourself up for failure. Rebuilding self-esteem takes time, patience, and persistence. Start small, pick little areas you know you have a high likelihood of success and go from there. I also recommend being more measured when it comes to dating, as opposed to impulsive - meaning, going online and messaging women often, trying to constantly set up dates, so you can fill that vacuum in your life; getting a girlfriend. Instead, try maybe messaging one person a week, a well thought out email maybe, and then walking away, continuing to work on yourself. If you happen to go on a date, use it as a learning experience, vs. a potential girlfriend. Trial and error in other words, tweaking your boundaries and behavior. I am not recommending you be anything other than yourself, however, as you are working on your self-esteem, you are performing a form of behavior modification, and on the date this will be the "new you" in progress.... so it's not fake, it's part of the process. I can come back to this if you'd like. Good luck 1
somedude81 Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 I don't agree I'm 30 and I gave up trying to find a "girl friend" a few years ago. It was not until I got into the "just have fun" mentality that I actually started finding relationships that went beyond flings. Something tells me that ms321 isn't exactly having flings.
DazedandConfused8 Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 I'm a 30 y/o guy who has been trying to find a girlfriend for a few years. It hasn't gone well. I've gone on many dates, but usually between 1-4 dates my date would dump me or disappear. I've tried various strategies like living a more interesting life, trying hard on dates, not trying hard on dates, not trying at all on dates, being myself/not myself on dates, being funny/not funny on dates, etc, etc. But maybe, I think the overall problem is that I don't believe a woman can like me for who I am. (I see the failed dating attempts as evidence of this) interestingly, when I pretend to be confident, I tend to do better on dates but after a few dates it's hard to maintain the confidence facade and the relationship fails. My life is fine in most other areas (good career, good health, etc) I'm trying to gain more dating confidence, but don't know how. In other areas of my life like my career I find that once I get some success I gain a little confidence which snowballs positively, until today I have a great job and earns over 6 figures, for example. (I know income isn't everything, just using it as an example). But, in dating I keep being rejected after a few dates, which destroys my confidence. How can I break out of this cycle? Is it possible to build confidence without success? How can I learn from my failures on dating if all my attempts end in failure? It's a simple numbers game man. If you contact 100 women, maybe only 10 will find you worth talking to. Of those 10 maybe 5 want to go out on dates with you. Of those 5 maybe 2 last past the first/second/third date, *hopefully* leaving the last 1 (the 1%) to be something worth pursuing a relationship. Try to not take it personally, but also consider taking it personally, if you know what I mean? Don't assume any woman is specifically rejecting you, but take a look at yourself and try to see what they could be seeing that's turning them off. 1
smackie9 Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 I'm curious to what happens on these dates to turn them off....like do you talk about yourself too much and you come off as arrogant? You lack sex appeal/passion? are boring? talk about things in a negative manner? chew with your mouth open? talk about past relationships? press for personal information? talk about sex? could use some details about these dates. If they say yes to a date in the first place, then your appearance isn't the issue....are you willing to show up your dating profile? 1
preraph Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Well, I will hand it to you that you are determined and willing to change and try and do whatever it takes. So I get what you're saying about acting confident. Though I did the same thing and it eventually stuck, but that does depend on life circumstances because if you have something else like maybe work knocking you down it's hard to keep it up. But for example, if you act confident and then suddenly you're successful at work for example, then that actually did improve you and you get a genuine self-esteem boost because YOU did it, YOU earned it and made it happen. You can actually fake it to make it and become that confident person if you just keep it up and do it in every facet of your life, not just around women. You are in control of who you want to become. So envision that best self of yours and keep your focus on it and present yourself so that everyone else can see your best self as well. If you find you have some huge obstacles that you can't get past yourself, then by all means, see a therapist and get some guidance, but I truly believe that if you can envision the person you want to be and work at it, you can become that person. 2
newmoon Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 is the lack of confidence always there, or is it stemming from not being able to secure a gf. because those are different. if you're truly not confident that would be evident in every area of your life; if it's just because you're not getting past date 4, then you just need to look at things differently. you are managing to get dates, so you're doing something right. look at the posts from all the guys who can't even get a date. it's a not a personal failing of yours if people don't want to continue on. in the same way you are looking for something special, so are they and you just don't match what they want. it doesn't mean you won't be a match for someone else. it's all about numbers. keep trying and eventually you'll have success. keep going on dates. 1
Author ms321 Posted August 9, 2014 Author Posted August 9, 2014 Wow thanks everyone for all the well thought out and detailed comments and advice! I didn't expect to get so much help. I'll try to answer everyone's questions here. THe problem is that, youre looking for a girlfriend. That should not be your no. 1 priority, whether this is covert or overt. Having fun and enjoying the person should be your number 1 priority * You cant trying to fake this, by deep down wanting a girlfriend, and fun coming second, you you'll end up with the fake confidence thing that youre talking about. * Also, You are never "dumped". The only time when youre "dumped" is when youre a complete jerk, and women dont want to be with you. You should just accept that you and the lady arnt compatible. Value yourself, know that you have something to offer, and that its her loss for not knowing you. First of all, I think you are being too hard on yourself and critical of yourself I 100% agree that you have to stop looking for a girlfriend and just give yourself the mission of dating for fun. One day one of those will stick for both of you. When I hear people say a scenario like your own, I think that they are being "too nice" and "accommodating". Why not try to go on some dates where your only mission is to see if the girl has what YOU might find interesting for a second date. I think you are doing the right thing by wanting to learn from things that did not go the way you wanted or expected. But i don't think you should see them as failures. The first advice here is to not devote 100% of my time to dating or thinking about dating, but rather build up my life in other ways. I can see that. Because of my dating frustrations I've slowly become so focused on dating that I choose social events and hobbies based on whether I might meet someone there, or whether that social activity might generate interesting stories that I can tell on dates or make me look more impressive. That sounds rather bad actually now that I wrote it out. But how does having good interests help with dating if not as something that can look impressive? That sounds bad too, but if someone can really write it out for me I think it would help. The second advice is that I should not see dating success or failure as black and white but rather as in shades of gray. I will try to work on this. I definitely can see that if a date doesn't work out well I tend to blame myself and try to find a way to fix it, or change my behavior or personality so as to avoid a similar bad outcome in the future. I guess it's not always my fault (incompatibility, etc) so I might overreact by trying to fix it. Telling a guy in his 30's to stop trying to get a GF is really bad advice. It's almost as if you are suggesting that a girl will just pop up in his life and want to be with him. If such a thing was going to happen, most likely it would have happened already. ms321: Dating/relationship confidence and life confidence are two completely different things. So don't feel bad. The only way to break out of the cycle is to start having some actual success with women. The first way to start doing that, is to learn how to be attractive to women. There is a ton of information about that on the internet. Number one is to work on your appearance. When you go on dates your goal should not be a "girl friend" your goal should simply be to have fun and get to know the date. I've had a lot of trouble with being myself on dates because I get into a "need to impress my date" mentality. The main thing you need to date successfully is to 1) Know what league you're in: When a woman is attracted to you the battle is mostly won. 2) Be sociable: You don't have to be the life of the party, be interested in what people have to say. 3) Be "confident": You don't have to be alpha or a leader just be comfortable in your skin (I struggle with this and weaer my insecurities on my sleeve). Lastly, look deep and try to find out if you're sabatging yourself without knowing it. I've run from a couple women who have liked me and chased unavailable women. Date women who like you! 1) Yes, although sometimes after a few dates someone that previously really liked me stopped liking me. I also go with the assumption that if someone went on a date with me, they at least like me a little so I'm in their league. 3) Yes, I definitely have to be more comfortable being myself. 4) Maybe I'm working too hard to impress the girl. Rebuilding self-esteem takes time, patience, and persistence. Start small, pick little areas you know you have a high likelihood of success and go from there. I also recommend being more measured when it comes to dating, as opposed to impulsive - meaning, going online and messaging women often, trying to constantly set up dates, so you can fill that vacuum in your life; getting a girlfriend. Instead, try maybe messaging one person a week, a well thought out email maybe, and then walking away, continuing to work on yourself. I can come back to this if you'd like. Good luck Can you comment more on how building self esteem outside of the dating area would help with dating or a relationship? For example, I've recently gained confidence in my athletic ability by working out at the gym. I'm now much more physically stronger, and I have greater self-esteem at looking better. But, it didn't seem to help me keep women interested longer on dates. I guess if the goal on dates isn't to "keep women interested longer," but rather to become happier with myself, then that would make sense. Still somehow I feel a disconnect or mental block there in my understanding. It's a simple numbers game man. If you contact 100 women, maybe only 10 will find you worth talking to. Of those 10 maybe 5 want to go out on dates with you. Of those 5 maybe 2 last past the first/second/third date, *hopefully* leaving the last 1 (the 1%) to be something worth pursuing a relationship. Those numbers seem pretty depressing to me! but yeah the contact 100 and go on 5 dates statistics seems pretty accurate. I'm curious to what happens on these dates to turn them off....like do you talk about yourself too much and you come off as arrogant? You lack sex appeal/passion? are boring? talk about things in a negative manner? chew with your mouth open? talk about past relationships? press for personal information? talk about sex? could use some details about these dates. If they say yes to a date in the first place, then your appearance isn't the issue....are you willing to show up your dating profile? It's hard to say exactly what I'm doing to turn them off. Talk about myself too much and arrogant: don't think so Lack sex appeal/passion: how do I tell?? Are boring: Maybe. I have lots of stories to tell on the first few dates which are interesting, but after that, I run out. As for the dating profile, I guess it can't hurt to post it here for awhile. This is from coffee meets bagel. It gets about 5% response rate, so any advice would be helpful. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9QcwpFU0Z1lOW5iNjZ0QUNjREE/edit?usp=sharing if you act confident and then suddenly you're successful at work for example, then that actually did improve you and you get a genuine self-esteem boost because YOU did it, YOU earned it and made it happen. You can actually fake it to make it and become that confident person if you just keep it up and do it in every facet of your life, not just around women. You are in control of who you want to become. So envision that best self of yours and keep your focus on it and present yourself so that everyone else can see your best self as well. ... I truly believe that if you can envision the person you want to be and work at it, you can become that person. is the lack of confidence always there, or is it stemming from not being able to secure a gf. because those are different. if you're truly not confident that would be evident in every area of your life; if it's just because you're not getting past date 4, then you just need to look at things differently. you are managing to get dates, so you're doing something right. look at the posts from all the guys who can't even get a date. it's a not a personal failing of yours if people don't want to continue on. in the same way you are looking for something special, so are they and you just don't match what they want. it doesn't mean you won't be a match for someone else. it's all about numbers. keep trying and eventually you'll have success. keep going on dates. I have had confidence issues in other areas of my life too. But in those areas I tend to resolve them after awhile, because in those areas I didn't need confident to begin, just needed to work on skills and the confidence follows success. For example, when I first started working out at the gym I felt unconfident I can gain muscle and get stronger. In the beginning it was a mental challenge to work out, but after awhile I became confident about it after seeing results. Dating seems unique in that confidence is needed first before anything happens at all. It's like a catch-22.
smackie9 Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) Women like more organic conversations, like talking about shared interests or random things. You tell them stories that has nothing to do with them so it`s going to be boring. You need to ask about their interests, family, you know try and find things you both can relate to so the conversation can flow. You also should learn how to tease and flirt with a woman, friendly banter, show them that you find them desirable with good eye contact, smiling, joking, making them laugh. Make sure they are enjoying themselves. if you are going to tell them a story, make it short and hopefully funny. If you draw it out for more then 2 mins you have lost them. Never ask how you rate, or if they are having a good time or about their past relationships, or what their "type" is, etc. Just don't go there As for your profile, at little to braggie on the like to travel (been to over 20+countries) that sound like trying to hard to look good. Ya need to be light with the info. The what you appreciate your date part is too much like you are already in a relationship. able to share lifes challenges??? toooo serious. You need to answer it like " I appreciate when my date": has a great sense of humor, can flirt better than me knows where the best place to have pizza, can talk about anything, enjoys trying new things, etc. Edited August 9, 2014 by smackie9 3
Miss Match Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Wow thanks everyone for all the well thought out and detailed comments and advice! I didn't expect to get so much help. I'll try to answer everyone's questions here. The first advice here is to not devote 100% of my time to dating or thinking about dating, but rather build up my life in other ways. I can see that. Because of my dating frustrations I've slowly become so focused on dating that I choose social events and hobbies based on whether I might meet someone there, or whether that social activity might generate interesting stories that I can tell on dates or make me look more impressive. That sounds rather bad actually now that I wrote it out. But how does having good interests help with dating if not as something that can look impressive? That sounds bad too, but if someone can really write it out for me I think it would help. The second advice is that I should not see dating success or failure as black and white but rather as in shades of gray. I will try to work on this. I definitely can see that if a date doesn't work out well I tend to blame myself and try to find a way to fix it, or change my behavior or personality so as to avoid a similar bad outcome in the future. I guess it's not always my fault (incompatibility, etc) so I might overreact by trying to fix it. I've had a lot of trouble with being myself on dates because I get into a "need to impress my date" mentality. 1) Yes, although sometimes after a few dates someone that previously really liked me stopped liking me. I also go with the assumption that if someone went on a date with me, they at least like me a little so I'm in their league. 3) Yes, I definitely have to be more comfortable being myself. 4) Maybe I'm working too hard to impress the girl. Can you comment more on how building self esteem outside of the dating area would help with dating or a relationship? For example, I've recently gained confidence in my athletic ability by working out at the gym. I'm now much more physically stronger, and I have greater self-esteem at looking better. But, it didn't seem to help me keep women interested longer on dates. I guess if the goal on dates isn't to "keep women interested longer," but rather to become happier with myself, then that would make sense. Still somehow I feel a disconnect or mental block there in my understanding. It's hard to say exactly what I'm doing to turn them off. Talk about myself too much and arrogant: don't think so Lack sex appeal/passion: how do I tell?? Are boring: Maybe. I have lots of stories to tell on the first few dates which are interesting, but after that, I run out. As for the dating profile, I guess it can't hurt to post it here for awhile. This is from coffee meets bagel. It gets about 5% response rate, so any advice would be helpful. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9QcwpFU0Z1lOW5iNjZ0QUNjREE/edit?usp=sharing I have had confidence issues in other areas of my life too. But in those areas I tend to resolve them after awhile, because in those areas I didn't need confident to begin, just needed to work on skills and the confidence follows success. For example, when I first started working out at the gym I felt unconfident I can gain muscle and get stronger. In the beginning it was a mental challenge to work out, but after awhile I became confident about it after seeing results. Dating seems unique in that confidence is needed first before anything happens at all. It's like a catch-22. Ok ms321.. I think I can see where your problem is. From what you have said, most of what you do or say is done in order to get approval. You do hobbies that you can talk about because it sounds good for example. You think that if you do this or say this, it will impress. The thing is, the girl should be trying to impress you too. You can't alter how you act or what you say to a particular "way" that will be successful because it's going to be different with each different girl. You have to think of confidence as authenticity. Being true to who you are, knowing what you want and what you don't and being open to things you don't know anything about. You can't fake this. You have something to offer, as you are. What is that? What do you love? what are your dreams? 1
ascendotum Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Something tells me that ms321 isn't exactly having flings. There is a difference for sure when it comes to self esteem. For a guy who year after year can't get past date 2 or 3 with women vs the scenario where the guy can't convert ons/f-buddies/fwbs/flings to be gfs. The later might get frustrating after a number of years but it won't corrode your confidence to the same extent as first situation. Confidence with women is different from being confident with your career or other passions, and with my personal experience and those of my friends who struggled then got better....it snowballed as success gets racked up. Flings are very much considered success by majority of men. I agree with the others that say flip the mindset from being the one that has to impress the girl with your audition to be a her bf, to it being the one who is evaluating her just as much. Also those who said try to approach dating from a fun perspective. Its tricky after numerous yrs of lack of success but it definitely helps. You have to show no hint of frustration. Consider maybe changing your style/appearance. A 6 figure career is great but more so when woman want to settle down, but much less so when she is looking for fun & excitement in her 20s. Looks will trump the career then. 2
Versacehottie Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Telling a guy in his 30's to stop trying to get a GF is really bad advice. It's almost as if you are suggesting that a girl will just pop up in his life and want to be with him. If such a thing was going to happen, most likely it would have happened already. ms321: Dating/relationship confidence and life confidence are two completely different things. So don't feel bad. The only way to break out of the cycle is to start having some actual success with women. The first way to start doing that, is to learn how to be attractive to women. There is a ton of information about that on the internet. Number one is to work on your appearance. Ok I disagree with some of what you said and agree with other parts. Definitely agree that no one is just going to pop up. But if you do the steps and manage your life as lots are suggesting, it WILL happen. Although most people generally see it as a girl thing: any one who is desperate will drive exactly what they want away from them. ie if a person is too focused on the possession "a girlfriend" they tend to not see people for who they are or are simply doing things to draw a person toward them without a true connection which is a shaky relationship at best--and usually if girl IS girlfriend material it will drive her away. No one (*i think) was telling him to stop dating--only to approach it differently. i totally disagree that dating confidence and life confidence are different. Confidence is confidence. Probably some people are better at applying it in certain areas of their lives than others. And maybe in OP's case he hasn't applied it much in the dating area (or believed in himself when he has faked confidence). I actually think that he is at an advantage vs an overall unconfident guy because if he can learn how to transfer some of those skills to dating, and bearing in mind that he also has things on paper that girls (right or wrong will be impressed by), he is just a few steps away from a gf. But I do agree that the way to break the cycle is to start having real success with girls--that's why i believe some of us are saying he needs to define what success is to him differently, which in turn will build confidence in dating, which in turn will bring him closer to what he wants--a girlfriend. I 100% agree with working on appearance. It can never hurt. Attention to how you present yourself is a strong sign to others of healthy self esteem which is attractive. People like to be around people who are inspiring with how they conduct their lives. Basically OP should have a collection of things that tip the scales in his favor. I would guess if he is getting 1-4 dates but not more, he generates a medium level of initial interest but that the collection of what girls discover does not tip the scales into them sticking to him like glue. So be a bit better looking, a bit more flirtatious, a bit easier to get to know, a bit cockier (just guessing that's one that might help this particular guy) will probably tip the scales.
Versacehottie Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Because of my dating frustrations I've slowly become so focused on dating that I choose social events and hobbies based on whether I might meet someone there, or whether that social activity might generate interesting stories that I can tell on dates or make me look more impressive. That sounds rather bad actually now that I wrote it out. But how does having good interests help with dating if not as something that can look impressive? That sounds bad too, but if someone can really write it out for me I think it would help. I've had a lot of trouble with being myself on dates because I get into a "need to impress my date" mentality. yes choosing events with that mentality is kiss of death. Air of desperation. That's why i suggested getting invested in your own life. When you truly do that, it ups your chances. Then some stories are good, but you shouldn't worry about running out. If you are engaged with your date you start having your own stories with that person. And it's not just about stories--that's a "trying to impress" mentality. You trying to tell her stories from your past that make you sound like the guy she will want to be with. What you need to do is be more in the now and create banter with her, flirtation--im telling you it can be about nothing/the most mundane things. Have you ever evesdropped on another couple's date? Most of what they are talking about is completely boring to others but absolutely special to the two of them. Just show the other person you notice them, see them in a more insightful way than the average person in their life and ask her about herself. Your question asking skills can be as/more important that your story telling ones. A lot of my friends love it when a guy they are just starting to date makes an observation about them. It can be about something small but it draws you closer. It can be flirting/teasing. Maybe you need more dates with activities rather than a dinner or drinks date--that will force the situation to be less stories, more about the two of you. What you want to create is an experience (whether it's dinner or an activity)--a date as an experience rather than an exchange of resumes! Why do you think so many people are on here b*tching about their latest "coffee date" gone bad?!!!?? Because it's a receipe for failure: how fast can we exchange resumes, like you say your list, and I say mine, go!! Ugh, no wonder that doesn't work. It's not your list of accomplishments or stories that are going to get you the girl. It's the experience you make for her that will. That's why you should just go with the mentality to have fun and see where it takes you. You may discover that all this time you've been trying to impress a girl with your stories, that she is the actual dud. After all, it's not all on you to keep banter going and create a connection but if you set the tone as trade of stories, it becomes boring really quickly. No matter how great you were on paper before the 1st date. Each time you are on a first date, you've got a foot in the door--then you just need to run with it by having fun. You are at success each date she has accepted, then you just need to have fun and discover if she's for you by bring the best of yourself.
ascendotum Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 yes choosing events with that mentality is kiss of death. Air of desperation. That's why i suggested getting invested in your own life. When you truly do that, it ups your chances. If this guy was 24 I'd totally agree with you, but at 30, I think he needs to do both (interests he is passionate about + also those that create opportunities) If he is into drag racing / rally driving / mountain biking / video gaming / chess / old brass fan collecting / old relics prospecting / restoring pinball machines, etc...he is not going to be creating a lot of opportunities to meet single women with those. Whatever he's has been doing in his 20s in that regard it hasn't worked. It would help such a guy to throw in some mixed indoor volley ball or wine appreciation meet-up group to improve chances of meeting women + also with a common interest. I agree it can have an air of desperation, and saw that with some guys at a few meetups I went to, but if he picks something that he will get a kick out of rather than do it strictly to pick up then its good. 1
oberkeat Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) I'm a 30 y/o guy who has been trying to find a girlfriend for a few years. It hasn't gone well. I've gone on many dates, but usually between 1-4 dates my date would dump me or disappear. I've tried various strategies like living a more interesting life, trying hard on dates, not trying hard on dates, not trying at all on dates, being myself/not myself on dates, being funny/not funny on dates, etc, etc. But maybe, I think the overall problem is that I don't believe a woman can like me for who I am. (I see the failed dating attempts as evidence of this) interestingly, when I pretend to be confident, I tend to do better on dates but after a few dates it's hard to maintain the confidence facade and the relationship fails. My life is fine in most other areas (good career, good health, etc) I'm trying to gain more dating confidence, but don't know how. In other areas of my life like my career I find that once I get some success I gain a little confidence which snowballs positively, until today I have a great job and earns over 6 figures, for example. (I know income isn't everything, just using it as an example). But, in dating I keep being rejected after a few dates, which destroys my confidence. Sometimes when I begin to suffer from "Maybe I'm not good enough" syndrome, I do a little mental exercise: I think of all the truly hideous people (physically or in terms of personality) who I've met or worked with who nonetheless were in romantic relationships. Then I think, wow, if thatperson can find someone who loves him/her, I know I'll find someone eventually. So, maybe recognizing that relationships aren't reserved for perfect people can help you work past your insecurities about yourself. Edited August 10, 2014 by oberkeat
Author ms321 Posted August 10, 2014 Author Posted August 10, 2014 You also should learn how to tease and flirt with a woman, friendly banter, show them that you find them desirable with good eye contact, smiling, joking, making them laugh. Make sure they are enjoying themselves. if you are going to tell them a story, make it short and hopefully funny. If you draw it out for more then 2 mins you have lost them. You have to think of confidence as authenticity. Being true to who you are, knowing what you want and what you don't and being open to things you don't know anything about. You can't fake this. What if these two conflict? I feel like who I am isn't to tease and banter. I can be authentically friendly, yes, and try to find common topics to talk about that's interesting and fun to both of us. But, it's in my personality to be more serious rather than joking and making people laugh. I've tried to do joking and making a girl laugh before, but have always felt like I'm doing them to impress the girl. Isn't that doing something to just gain approval? If I push to fundamentally change myself to joke more, then isn't that being not authentic? Is there an "authentic" way for me to accept bantering and flirting without feeling like I'm only doing it to trick a girl into liking me better? As for your profile, at little to braggie on the like to travel (been to over 20+countries) that sound like trying to hard to look good. Ya need to be light with the info. The what you appreciate your date part is too much like you are already in a relationship. able to share lifes challenges??? toooo serious. You need to answer it like " I appreciate when my date": has a great sense of humor, can flirt better than me knows where the best place to have pizza, can talk about anything, enjoys trying new things, etc. These are good points. Ok I'll change these things. What you want to create is an experience (whether it's dinner or an activity)--a date as an experience rather than an exchange of resumes!...It's not your list of accomplishments or stories that are going to get you the girl. It's the experience you make for her that will. That's why you should just go with the mentality to have fun and see where it takes you. This makes sense to me, but the banter and flirting thing bothers me. Like I said I'm naturally more serious, and think more logically. So when I try the banter and flirt I usually end up saying something that comes across as foolish and contrived.
Author ms321 Posted August 10, 2014 Author Posted August 10, 2014 I agree with the others that say flip the mindset from being the one that has to impress the girl with your audition to be a her bf, to it being the one who is evaluating her just as much. Also those who said try to approach dating from a fun perspective. Its tricky after numerous yrs of lack of success but it definitely helps. You have to show no hint of frustration. That's going to be tough, for the reasons you mentioned. I guess evaluating her will also give me perspective and not blame myself when the dates don't work out. Maybe I should start a dating log on this site so people will be able to give me advice on more specific situations.
smackie9 Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Being logical is the debbie downer here. Women get turned off by analytical, logical, factual boring conversation. Women go by their emotions, so you need to work on making them feel desired by flirting. Your body language speaks volumes to them too, women are very receptive to details like that. All this stuff is attainable on the net, just google your question "how to you flirt with women". You are a logical guy, do your research.
morrowrd Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Can you comment more on how building self esteem outside of the dating area would help with dating or a relationship? For example, I've recently gained confidence in my athletic ability by working out at the gym. I'm now much more physically stronger, and I have greater self-esteem at looking better. But, it didn't seem to help me keep women interested longer on dates. I guess if the goal on dates isn't to "keep women interested longer," but rather to become happier with myself, then that would make sense. Still somehow I feel a disconnect or mental block there in my understanding. Those numbers seem pretty depressing to me! but yeah the contact 100 and go on 5 dates statistics seems pretty accurate. I have had confidence issues in other areas of my life too. But in those areas I tend to resolve them after awhile, because in those areas I didn't need confident to begin, just needed to work on skills and the confidence follows success. For example, when I first started working out at the gym I felt unconfident I can gain muscle and get stronger. In the beginning it was a mental challenge to work out, but after awhile I became confident about it after seeing results. Dating seems unique in that confidence is needed first before anything happens at all. It's like a catch-22. I have a saying I live by; “fix the within and you fix the without.” When people lack confidence, and self-esteem, they behave a certain way that sends out messages to those around them…and depending on the type of behavior that person uses, will be the driving force behind how those people around that person will respond. In like manner, when you walk around this world feeling confident in your skin, people will respond to that as well. Respond is a key word. Cause and effect… Faking self confidence is really hard to do, facades aren’t the answer because they either don’t work, or if they happen to do they don’t last. The real answer is to gain real solid esteem and confidence. And to do that, it means being honest with yourself. You don’t have to defend yourself online to me, or to anyone else. In a lot of cases, people tend to be ashamed of their failures and to admit it even online can be a challenge. Its hard enough sometimes to admit it to yourself…but until you do, you are trapped in a façade house, that isn’t going to protect you, or help you succeed. It will be the deciding resource, the door of your squirrel cage. So the key here is to build self-confidence a little at a time. Since I don’t know you enough to come up with examples or advice, I will just share what things I did. Your workout program is an excellent start. I would have suggested it as a first step, so you’re ahead of the game. I started working out 35 years ago, I gained strength – that part happens fast. The part about your body becoming muscular, that doesn’t happen fast, that happens over a long period of time but once it does, knowing you are strong and look strong, that is a real nice part of the system. It isn’t a guarantee that you’ll get a bunch of girlfriends, but it will increase your confidence. The workout also improves things about your health (start eating right as a part of this portion of the system) because feeling better also makes you feel better about yourself, and is a part of the confidence building process. A second step is honesty. Being honest with yourself, being honest with others, no matter what. Being honest, (not the same as the person sharing too much information – don’t confuse the two), after a period of time causes you to become more confident in your words. Being comfortable with your words gives you more feelings of credibility, and more confidence in the things you say. Thirdly, my system for dealing with the occasional cloud of depression we all deal with from time to time should help you as well. Pay close attention to the things you say, if you find yourself complaining about things, others, gossiping, “F this and F that” – you are going to affect yourself, in a bad way. When we speak negatively, we bring ourselves and our minds into depression. I have noticed in my own life, when I begin to notice my emotions are low, I start checklisting the things I remember saying or talking about. Most times I will discover I have been talking negatively…a lot. It’s a real easy habit to get into, especially at work because people in groups tend to go down that dark path of talking bad about others. I’m guilty of it myself. However, once I realize it, I stop immediately, abruptly. I pay close attention to the things I say, even in private (we all talk to ourselves), because it all counts. It doesn’t mean I get all new agey lovey dovey with everyone, I don’t like everyone. What it does mean is that I am not dragging myself down by talking down. After awhile, I feel better about myself. After discovering this system years ago, I had been depressed without even realizing it, I tried this out. It took about a week and I was completely out of the depressed state. After years of using this system, it only takes me a day or two to lift that cloud. Remember, depression isn’t about whining and crying, it’s a distorted state of mind where you interpret your perspective wrongly. Like you’re wearing very dark glasses. This is enough to start. I want to add that you should not feel guilty for wanting a girlfriend, and not feel ashamed that you’ve been rejected either. Life is about challenges, you only live once and if having a girlfriend is part of the buffet of life that would make you happy, keep trying. Just remember that once you DO get her, don’t forget what it was like before. A lot of men fall into that trap, appreciate her, make her feel safe, loved, and cherished. Don’t worship her, but make her feel as if she’s the only girl on earth that matters to you. Good luck.
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