TiredFamilyGuy Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 ... is to completely disregard whatever any woman has told you about being "nice". "Nice" as it applies to this context is not an admirable thing: it is a weak personality trait that usually involves putting your own wants and needs so far down your list of priorities that they might as well not exist, turning you into a non-person who exists only to mould themselves to other people's desires out of a fear of conflict and rejection. Which is about as far from attractive as you can get, and sadly there are a lot of people out there who will take complete advantage of that. I don't like, though, the idea that it's just the *******s who get the girls: this might well be true but I think at the root of the problem is that these *******s are already disregarding the advice to be "nice", instead living the life they want to (which, since they're *******s, usually involves being awful to other people)... which frankly is still more interesting than a non-person you can't quite unstick yourself from. But you don't have to be an ******* just because you're not "nice". Pursue your own interests and desires honestly and openly. Stand up for yourself and your opinions, and don't be afraid if they don't exactly match somebody else's, even (especially?) somebody you want to get close with. Show "kindness", which is different from "niceness" because it comes from a place of strength and honesty, wanting to do a thing because you feel it's right for you to do, rather than doing it because you think the other person wants it, usually in the hope of some reward. When I stopped being "nice" I found I lost a few - mostly female - friends who suddenly didn't have me spending my time trying to gain their approval. The telling point was that the friends I actually lived my life with - shared hobbies, played music, etc - stayed good friends. Hear me now. Believe me later. 3
Smilecharmer Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 What you are describing is a doormat and it applies to both genders. Doormats are weak willed and have no self esteem. They aren't interesting because they usually defer to others instead of having their owns hobbies, desires, goals, hopes, dreams, thoughts and opinions. 4
Victoria7 Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 What you are describing is a doormat and it applies to both genders. Doormats are weak willed and have no self esteem. They aren't interesting because they usually defer to others instead of having their owns hobbies, desires, goals, hopes, dreams, thoughts and opinions. I agree with smile charmer. There is a difference between being nice, kind and compassionate and being a doormat. 3
pteromom Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 No, the most important step in dating for men is to take chances and risk rejection. No trying = no succeeding. I do agree with you to a point. You should be kind, not "nice". You should speak up for yourself, stand up for what you believe in, and be who you want to be vs. pandering to someone else's needs. But there's a balance to be had, if your goal is to build a successful relationship with someone. You can't be 100% giving, but you can't be 100% taking either. It can't be all about you. You listen, understand, compromise, and negotiate to build something solid with someone. Oh - and that someone has to be a person capable of building what you want. There's no way to succeed with someone who lacks the ability to be in a relationship. 2
Smilecharmer Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 No, the most important step in dating for men is to take chances and risk rejection. No trying = no succeeding. I do agree with you to a point. You should be kind, not "nice". You should speak up for yourself, stand up for what you believe in, and be who you want to be vs. pandering to someone else's needs. But there's a balance to be had, if your goal is to build a successful relationship with someone. You can't be 100% giving, but you can't be 100% taking either. It can't be all about you. You listen, understand, compromise, and negotiate to build something solid with someone. Oh - and that someone has to be a person capable of building what you want. There's no way to succeed with someone who lacks the ability to be in a relationship. Yes, balance is always key to long term healthy relationships. The ones that don't work are the ones where one is giving or taking too much. I'm a writer and I have folders full of rejection slips. It wears on you but I knew that if I kept trying and kept getting rejected I would get what I wanted in my career. Giving up because it hurt wasn't an option. Men say rejection is too hard and yet I spent years my own body rejecting me, not allowing a baby. Nothing hurts more IMO than yearning to be a mother and not being able to because of your own incompetency. However, I never gave up though it broke my heart. Now I have a wonderful career and a beautiful little family. Tenaciousness in the face of rejection is what every person needs when looking for love, children or careers. 4
pteromom Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 Tenaciousness in the face of rejection is what every person needs when looking for love, children or careers. Yes... you have to be tough enough to get what you want in this life. And when you have extra obstacles (factors that make dating more difficult, infertility, lack of experience, whatever), that isn't a reason to give up. It's a reason to try HARDER. 2
d0nnivain Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 TiredFamilyGuy If you replace the word "nice" with "doormat" in your post I endorse what you are saying. It's a vocabulary thing for me. "Nice" means "kind & polite", which you acknowledge as strong. A pushover who is approval seeking is something else altogether & should be avoided. 3
GemmaUK Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 No, the most important step in dating for men is to take chances and risk rejection. No trying = no succeeding. I do agree with you to a point. You should be kind, not "nice". You should speak up for yourself, stand up for what you believe in, and be who you want to be vs. pandering to someone else's needs. But there's a balance to be had, if your goal is to build a successful relationship with someone. You can't be 100% giving, but you can't be 100% taking either. It can't be all about you. You listen, understand, compromise, and negotiate to build something solid with someone. Oh - and that someone has to be a person capable of building what you want. There's no way to succeed with someone who lacks the ability to be in a relationship. You're not a guy are you..but hell I would marry your mind! I have different sections: Nice guy Good guy Bad boy/guy Nice guys have a way of being around you where they simper and agree if they can ..if it is remotely possible they agree. They are nice to you...nicer to you than to anyone else except for abusers who are nice to all until they have you in their grip. BUT..they are the same...usually nice guys are not nice and are insecure jealous..etc. Nice guys are usually not very good at sex as they don't 'really listen. They 'think' they are nice but actually they are the jerks that were lovely to start with but take no responsibility for their lives and everyone is mean to them in their eyes. These are the guys who are lovely for 3 months (or one..or six) and then suck! Good guys. Are hard working. responsible, know their past failures and what they had to do with them. (They admit their share). They listen and understand in bed as well as out of it. Phwaooooar! Bad guys: Great at sex and look great. Mysterious..aka...there either isn't much going on up there or there is but 'he ain't really into you!' 1
GemmaUK Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 Yes, balance is always key to long term healthy relationships. The ones that don't work are the ones where one is giving or taking too much. I'm a writer and I have folders full of rejection slips. It wears on you but I knew that if I kept trying and kept getting rejected I would get what I wanted in my career. Giving up because it hurt wasn't an option. Men say rejection is too hard and yet I spent years my own body rejecting me, not allowing a baby. Nothing hurts more IMO than yearning to be a mother and not being able to because of your own incompetency. However, I never gave up though it broke my heart. Now I have a wonderful career and a beautiful little family. Tenaciousness in the face of rejection is what every person needs when looking for love, children or careers. This is strength! This is what a good man and here a good woman is made of! Determination but self determination. Not walking upon nor relying upon anyone else. Pure! Priceless and incredibly attractive in a person!
pteromom Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 You're not a guy are you..but hell I would marry your mind! LOL. Nope, just a mom. But thank you! 1
GemmaUK Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 LOL. Nope, just a mom. But thank you! You are most welcome! Darn it! I want a 'good man' in his forties...*the search continues while I roll my eyes* Heh! 1
risjurad Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 ... is to completely disregard whatever any woman has told you about being "nice". "Nice" as it applies to this context is not an admirable thing: it is a weak personality trait that usually involves putting your own wants and needs so far down your list of priorities that they might as well not exist, turning you into a non-person who exists only to mould themselves to other people's desires out of a fear of conflict and rejection. Which is about as far from attractive as you can get, and sadly there are a lot of people out there who will take complete advantage of that. I don't like, though, the idea that it's just the *******s who get the girls: this might well be true but I think at the root of the problem is that these *******s are already disregarding the advice to be "nice", instead living the life they want to (which, since they're *******s, usually involves being awful to other people)... which frankly is still more interesting than a non-person you can't quite unstick yourself from. But you don't have to be an ******* just because you're not "nice". Pursue your own interests and desires honestly and openly. Stand up for yourself and your opinions, and don't be afraid if they don't exactly match somebody else's, even (especially?) somebody you want to get close with. Show "kindness", which is different from "niceness" because it comes from a place of strength and honesty, wanting to do a thing because you feel it's right for you to do, rather than doing it because you think the other person wants it, usually in the hope of some reward. When I stopped being "nice" I found I lost a few - mostly female - friends who suddenly didn't have me spending my time trying to gain their approval. The telling point was that the friends I actually lived my life with - shared hobbies, played music, etc - stayed good friends. Hear me now. Believe me later. Problem with myself is I'm too nice. Since I feel like a creep just asking girls out, I'm not inclined to do so. No way around that though... need to get out of one's comfort zone to get the dates. 1
Assasda Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 I Totally agree with Smilecharmer on everything. That "Nice" is synonymous with Doormat & a yes-man. No one really respects a yes-man. You get a long with them, but you'll respect with someone that tells you a harsh truth more, even if you're less fond of them 1
pteromom Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Problem with myself is I'm too nice. Since I feel like a creep just asking girls out, I'm not inclined to do so. No way around that though... need to get out of one's comfort zone to get the dates. Why do you feel like a creep? What criteria do you use to decide who to ask out? Do you do any kind of analyzing to figure out if she is into you at all before you ask? There's nothing creepy about asking a girl out. Even if she says no. A well-balanced woman will be very flattered even if she isn't interested or available. A woman who freaks out and thinks you are a creep just for showing interest in her is either self-absorbed or entitled or psycho - not a woman you want anyway. Don't stop being a nice guy. And look for a nice girl. Don't let the ones who aren't nice stop you from asking.
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