IfWishesWereHorses Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 Because of how I interpret your situation, I don't agree with a few posters whose advice I respect and revere. First, your situation is a little different. You married around forty, have an elementary school son and have separate as well as joint accounts. Your H is an attorney which means he's fairly well connected. You've referred to the home as HIS which makes me believe it was brought into the marriage. Also, his OWis a LD relationship and she has kids which I assume means she can't shack up on a nightly basis in his apartment. Much of what's been said I do agree with. Lawyer up now! It's not making a choice until you file. Start worrying about legalities and get your ducks in a row. Allow him the time and privacy to move out. Unlike others, I DO believe he's confused. He's willing for you to have the house FOR NOW. That will change! He's getting his ducks in a row and understanding his options. I don't doubt he's torn. Give him something to miss and concentrate on moving forward. We're in the middle of a custody battle for a niece that we've taken care of for 2 1/2 years. One call to an attorney colleague of H and we've been referred, several people have been consulted, we have an Attorney in that particular field and more info than we've received on 2 years. Don't under estimate the connections but fight for yourself. Let him go gracefully. Give yourself time to accept your position. Behave with your best interest forefront at all times, and above all, respet yourself. Those things will lead you in the best direction in an unfortunate situation! I was born with too much empathy but I do believe that a certain amount is required to exist happily in this world. Give yourself time but be prudent! Give your WS an opportunity to miss YOU!
BetrayedH Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 First, yes, you can certainly take time to breathe. You have the right not to decide what you want for a while. That said, I think it's important to have a good idea of what your basic boundaries are and to have a healthy sense of confidence with enforcing them. Second, I'm going to guess that being married to someone that wants to move out and explore his feelings about another woman is something that is beyond your boundaries. That's where that 180 comes in. Read it 50 times. Third, it's common for just about every betrayed spouse to want to stop the bleeding and do damage control. We tend to try to preserve the nuclear unit and our ego also takes such a huge blow that we desperately hope for a scenario where our wayward spouse chooses us. In many cases, the couple goes through a period of 'hysterical bonding' where sex is off the charts. I see it as a form of 'reclaiming your spouse' (and their ass). The wayward spouse typically complies in a state of confusion. For what it's worth, all of those feelings are normal. Most experts would say that it happening is not much of an indicator for reconciliation. Some would say that it's a really unhealthy desperation move on the part of the BS. Fourth, I'd rather see you be decisive about firm boundaries. Desperation is both ineffective and unattractive. You cannot 'nice them back.' Worse yet, your already damaged self-esteem takes yet another blow as you lower yourself to accepting someone you shouldn't. My personal recommendation is that you find an attorney and ask them to file for divorce on your behalf. This begins protecting you right away. As well, it clearly communicates that this behavior of his is not an acceptable scenario if he wants to stay married to you. It also has the added side-benefit of forcing him to make a choice; there is no hiding in secrecy, no 'permission' granted via a separation, and he immediately faces consequences for his choices. This many times serves as a wake-up call for the wayward. If your husband then shows sufficient true remorse, it's perfectly acceptable for you to halt the proceedings and explore reconciliation. That's a healthy process that's respectful to you, your child, the marriage, and frankly, your husband. You don't have to be nasty. You just need to be firm about what you're willing to accept. I don't recommend you accept him dating other women without filing. And don't give in to the temptation to forgive before he's even shown that he's truly remorseful. Right now he's still lying about an affair and asking permission to clear up his 'confusion.' Ironically enough, the women that I know here who have really successfully reconciled pretty much all told their husbands to go off and be with the OW and filed for divorce. As Hope mentioned, the husbands then saw the real consequences of engaging in their fantasy affairs and came crawling back to their wives. 5
jackslife Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) A couple different things going on here. As a general rule of thumb, separation is a beneficial step towards the divorce and moving on process and often a big step backwards in the reconciliation process. If someone's mind is made up to divorce and move on, separation is a good step towards that end. In separation people begin to start living their own lives and getting adjusted to not being with their spouse. Throw in having free access to an AP and having continued contact and interaction with an AP and it is just the final nails in the coffin. If there is a part of you that wants to make a good faith effort to reconcile, separation will be a detriment to that process even if you can't stand the sight of him at the moment. If you did want to separate as part of the reconciliation process it would need to be with pretty clear cut boundaries and timelines such as a time limit on the separation and absolute zero contact with OW, counseling etc etc. If he breaks those stipulations during the separation then it's pretty much all over anyway. In regards to his wanting a "break," and giving you the ILYBNILWY speech, those are pretty ominous signs unfortunately. A typical cad who's just boffing the Secretary for fun will often drop to his knees begging for forgiveness and vowing his love and pleading for another chance etc. A guy who stays cool and states ILYBNILWY and wants to move out is pretty far gone. I'm not saying it's hopeless but it's a lot worse that some selfish jerk who is just getting a little poontang on the side and has true remorse and is desperate to keep the marriage intact. My recommendation is keep the counseling session and keep your options open untill the counselor is able to peel back some layers and see what is really taking place here and see how you both really feel about this situation. If you toss him out now and really tell him off and let him go to OW, that will probably seal your fate and close the door to a number of options. It will probably let a genie out of the bottle that can't be put back. But if you bide your time for a few days and bite your tongue till it bleeds untill you can get into the counselor and really start to dig through this with professional assistance, you may have a variety of other options that you won't have if people act on impulse and in anger. You will always be able to toss him out and file down the road if you find out things are irreconcilable. But you may not be able to salvage anything if anyone says or does something that can't be reversed in the heat of the moment. In other words it may be very hard to fix this situation or to save this marriage, but it will be very very easy to blow it all up with one wrong move or one misspoken word. I urge caution, restraint and discretion untill you are working with a professional therapist and an attorney. Old shirt is spot on here - 100%. All the 'throw his bags out the window and slip in the finger' won't help at all. Short term things are very bad. In the long run you will be divorced or have reconciled and rebuilt your marriage. Losing your rag won't help however much you want to do it. My earlier post said something similar as oldshirt. He is in very deep. If he was a drug addict he'd be a heroin user not someone who smokes pot now and then. I'd ask him if, once the sex wears off, if he sees himself facing dropping off his son on a sunday night and then having dinner and breakfast with her teenagers knowing he'll not see his lad for 12 more days? Edited August 6, 2014 by jackslife one more point 2
woinlove Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 SamSam, so sorry you H has blown up your family life in this way. Given that he said that you had nothing to worry about when you openly expressed your fears and concerns, I would not tend to believe anything he says that minimizes his involvement and plans with OW. I suspect he is still lying. And you can't have the kind of relationship you deserve and create the home life your son deserves with a lying spouse. Your H had very clear opportunities to choose honesty with you and he instead chose deception - right in the home where you two are raising your son. I agree with those who say to be true to your own boundaries and not put up with or go along with unacceptable behavior. You suspected he was involved with the OW, that has been confirmed despite his earlier denials, and I don't see anything to suggest he is ready to give up that involvement. Do you? Does anyone here? If not, trying to continue to live together as a married couple sounds like sheer hell to me. I agree with wwiu, it's your H's loss, even though it is you that is hurting so much.
EverySunset Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 I barely remember the days and weeks after my first D-day. I am impressed with how well you present yourself here. I can't tell you what to do, but I can share what I know, the same way I would here, like I would over a glass of wine with a girlfriend. And we'll see what resonates with you. PROTECTING YOURSELF * No matter what you decide to do, an atty can help you move forward. Not usually cheap, but then, neither are mistakes you can make at critical times, like I did. You can always reconcile and drop proceedings, tear up agreements, etc. but in the meantime, you and your child are vulnerable. No matter how loving your H has been up to now, he has confirmed there is another woman in his ear. One with a terrible break up in her past who could coach him through his. So PROTECT YOURSELF. Have your mother take your little man to lunch/movies and talk to a couple attys to see which one works well with you, which one seems to have your interests at heart. Get referrals from good friends. Why? By the time I moved on this, my shady STBXH had spoken with every decent firm in town! I lucked out with a pitbull that just switched firms, or else, I would have been stuck with a newbie. Which of course, was his aim. * GET TESTED. Right now. Statistically, in all likelihood, they were physical and again, statistics show that men used to long marriages of bareback sex go for the same in their affairs. He has been lying to you about a lot of things. Don't even consider trusting your health to his untrustworthy "word". As if he would tell you the truth now, anyway. I bolted to a doctor. Was honest about what happened, got tested for everything. Only after the results came back did I exhale, or even want to look at him, coincidentally. * SEPARATION DOES NOT EQUAL FREE HALL PASS. Most states consider any infidelity, even during separation, as very viable grounds for divorce. Many people do it, esp in states with long waiting periods, once it's clearly on that path, but without a clause in your separation agreement allowing it, it's still adultery by law. Punishment severity varies by jurisdiction. Yet ANOTHER reason to consult an atty. *** do not sleep with him again!! Your husband can claim condonation once you do, meaning despite being informed of his infidelity your resumed marital relations with him, indicating to the courts you were attempting to reconcile, so it will be more difficult to list that for grounds. Again, really good to discuss this w an atty. Also: has he been tested? If not, don't sleep with him again, until he commits to being monogamous to you by getting tested and showing you results. Otherwise, Sam, you deserve better. I will think more on this and post again later. Once you can PM, send me a private message for help and support. Good luck. Breathe. Eat. Sleep. Skip alcohol for a while, seriously. Breathe. Eat. Sleep. 2
pteromom Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 I am experiencing a very strange psychological state. I WANT him to beg to stay (which obviously he hasn't) but I also want to kick him out. I'm repulsed by him and want him to want me at the same time. A VERY messed up state of mind right now. Of course. You are hurt, but it is a basic human need to feel worthy. You want to be chosen. You want him to pick YOU. Since he isn't picking you, that causes those feelings of inferiority and worthlessness, and you want to do anything in your power to make those go away. But the fact is that he is a cheater. He may end up back at your door and he may not, but trust me - you WANT him to go. If he doesn't, he'll just keep hemming and hawing and second-guessing himself. He'll just keep resenting you for keeping him from exploring the possibilities with the OW. As much as it sucks, you have to let him go. And when you do, he has to experience the totality of his choice. He can't have you to lean on as a crutch. He can't think he has you on the back burner in case it doesn't work out. He can't come running to you when he's lonely and scared. He is choosing something else, so that's his choice. It will hurt you to ignore him and leave him alone, but you have to do it. He has to know the PAIN of being away from you before he will know what he really wants. And you should get into individual counseling right away, so if he does come running back begging you for another chance, you will have the clarity to know what choice is right for you. 1
2sunny Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 My suggestion is to file now so he understands the repercussions of his choices/actions. You can always delay the final decree to later... But anything he may take on as debt while still married to you may be considered community debt (half your responsibility). By filing now you could show proof later what he spends is his to pay off. Get current balances on everything. You need the info for referencing later - just in case. Protect yourself. And do take care. 1
merrmeade Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) Unfortunately, there is basically a script that some waywards follow, and even an acronym for what he is doing- giving you the ILYBNILWY speech. Shut down the bakery. Stop talking to him outside of financial and child arrangements. Do not give him any emotional validation at all. This will protect your heart and mental health, as well as stop giving him who kibbles. You are not in a competition for your spouse. You are the prize. If he needs space, by all means, let him go and take it, and let it be with next to zero contact with you. Good. Good. And again, good. SamSam, I was given similar advice but didn't have enough information or experience with all this to know whom to believe and tried to move "forward" too soon with 'work' on the relationship. Let me tell you what I wish I'd been told: Experience shows that the WS must believe that he will lose you to wake up. You don't help him see the error of his ways. He needs to be more than uncomfortable. And you do it because he's broken so many vows already. You need to consider the probability that he's lying about the "emotional" only status of their relationship. Read Shirley Glass "Not Just Friends." Go to other affair websites and identify the patterns. The advice is pretty much the same. What happened with your investigations? It's okay to ask for help if you need technical help. But you need proof. You need it more than anything right now for your own sense of the truth and to see where he's lying. I paid something like $25 to install a de-encryption program on my phone to read deleted text messages from phones. Important revelations. Also, after downloading his (our) phone records, I calculated how early in the day contact started (sometimes 7 am), how often, averages and totals. The results were quite mind-blowing for an "emotional" relationship. The results for a 1.5 year period (that's as far back as records went): TEXTS - 337 total: 145 sent/192 rcvd; 17 @ day for 12 mos.; 26 @ day in final 6 mos. (most in one day: 62). CALLS - 1005 total: 77.8 @ day (most in one month: 107).Bank records (isn't it your account, too?) will tell you where he was when, how many people he paid for at meals, unusual expenditures, i.e., gifts.But there's nothing better than emails (except maybe SMS) to create a connected flow of events. I know it sounds unethical. I hesitated a littl but weighed the other side of broken ethics here. It is necessary. Sorry I got a little involved with the evidentiary pieces and forgot where I was going originally with that list. Hope something is helpful anyway and you do better than I did. I'm sorry. It really, really sucks. I love your mother being there. Edited August 6, 2014 by merrmeade 1
merrmeade Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) First, yes, you can certainly take time to breathe. You have the right not to decide what you want for a while. That said, I think it's important to have a good idea of what your basic boundaries are and to have a healthy sense of confidence with enforcing them. Second, I'm going to guess that being married to someone that wants to move out and explore his feelings about another woman is something that is beyond your boundaries. That's where that 180 comes in. Read it 50 times. Third, it's common for just about every betrayed spouse to want to stop the bleeding and do damage control. We tend to try to preserve the nuclear unit and our ego also takes such a huge blow that we desperately hope for a scenario where our wayward spouse chooses us. In many cases, the couple goes through a period of 'hysterical bonding' where sex is off the charts. I see it as a form of 'reclaiming your spouse' (and their ass). The wayward spouse typically complies in a state of confusion. For what it's worth, all of those feelings are normal. Most experts would say that it happening is not much of an indicator for reconciliation. Some would say that it's a really unhealthy desperation move on the part of the BS. Fourth, I'd rather see you be decisive about firm boundaries. Desperation is both ineffective and unattractive. You cannot 'nice them back.' Worse yet, your already damaged self-esteem takes yet another blow as you lower yourself to accepting someone you shouldn't. My personal recommendation is that you find an attorney and ask them to file for divorce on your behalf. This begins protecting you right away. As well, it clearly communicates that this behavior of his is not an acceptable scenario if he wants to stay married to you. It also has the added side-benefit of forcing him to make a choice; there is no hiding in secrecy, no 'permission' granted via a separation, and he immediately faces consequences for his choices. This many times serves as a wake-up call for the wayward. If your husband then shows sufficient true remorse, it's perfectly acceptable for you to halt the proceedings and explore reconciliation. That's a healthy process that's respectful to you, your child, the marriage, and frankly, your husband. You don't have to be nasty. You just need to be firm about what you're willing to accept. I don't recommend you accept him dating other women without filing. And don't give in to the temptation to forgive before he's even shown that he's truly remorseful. Right now he's still lying about an affair and asking permission to clear up his 'confusion.' Ironically enough, the women that I know here who have really successfully reconciled pretty much all told their husbands to go off and be with the OW and filed for divorce. As Hope mentioned, the husbands then saw the real consequences of engaging in their fantasy affairs and came crawling back to their wives. SS, BH gives great advice as I'm sure you can see. He gets the overview, brings in big guns of experience on LS, and ALWAYS writes to the individual. Logic and compassion. But, what's 'the 180'? Need a link, please, but get the main idea and definitely agree. I do wish I'd had more evidence about WHY that is the best thing to do at the time. It's very, very important and true - everything they're saying. It will NOT be a regret to you and will still allow the possibility of reconciliation but if you don't do it now it's much harder to do later and won't have the same effect on him. Promise. It's my one regret. And no, you're not the oldest. I'm 66. Edited August 6, 2014 by merrmeade
merrmeade Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Good. Good. And again, good. SamSam, I was given similar advice but didn't have enough information or experience with all this to know whom to believe and tried to move "forward" too soon with 'work' on the relationship. Let me tell you what I wish I'd been told: Experience shows that the WS must believe that he will lose you to wake up. You don't help him see the error of his ways. He needs to be more than uncomfortable. And you do it because he's broken so many vows already. You need to consider the probability that he's lying about the "emotional" only status of their relationship. Read Shirley Glass "Not Just Friends." Go to other affair websites and identify the patterns. The advice is pretty much the same. What happened with your investigations? It's okay to ask for help if you need technical help. But you need proof. You need it more than anything right now for your own sense of the truth and to see where he's lying. I paid something like $25 to install a de-encryption program on my phone to read deleted text messages from phones. Important revelations. Also, after downloading his (our) phone records, I calculated how early in the day contact started (sometimes 7 am), how often, averages and totals. The results were quite mind-blowing for an "emotional" relationship. The results for a 1.5 year period (that's as far back as records went): TEXTS - 337 total: 145 sent/192 rcvd; 17 @ day for 12 mos.; 26 @ day in final 6 mos. (most in one day: 62). CALLS - 1005 total: 77.8 @ day (most in one month: 107).Bank records (isn't it your account, too?) will tell you where he was when, how many people he paid for at meals, unusual expenditures, i.e., gifts.But there's nothing better than emails (except maybe SMS) to create a connected flow of events. I know it sounds unethical. I hesitated a littl but weighed the other side of broken ethics here. It is necessary. Sorry I got a little involved with the evidentiary pieces and forgot where I was going originally with that list. Hope something is helpful anyway and you do better than I did. I'm sorry. It really, really sucks. I love your mother being there. Sorry if that was thread-jacking. (Is that what it is?)
BetrayedH Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 For a decent description of the 180, check out post #15 of this thread. 1
merrmeade Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) Oops, a couple of bullets made no sense because of typos – • You put the de-encryption program on your computer (not phone) then connect his cell phone. The program finds and deciphers the phone’s deleted messages and displays them in a window on the computer. The program I used is called Decipher TextMessage. • My husband and sister-in-law averaged 77 calls per month (not per day) during their affair. Experience shows … What happened …I paid something like $25 to install a de-encryption program on my COMPUTER to read deleted text messages from phones. Important revelations. Also, after downloading his (our) phone records, I calculated … CALLS - 1005 total: 77.8 @ MONTH (most in one month: 107).Bank records …But there's nothing better than emails … Edited August 7, 2014 by merrmeade
Hope Shimmers Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Frankly I think it's sad that so many marriages have come to the point of "collecting evidence", placing recorders in cars, and the sharing of a whole document of information about how you should 'protect yourself' including getting an attorney and trying to beat your spouse by getting the first meeting with them so you have the first shot at the best bulldog attorney. 4
2sunny Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Frankly I think it's sad that so many marriages have come to the point of "collecting evidence", placing recorders in cars, and the sharing of a whole document of information about how you should 'protect yourself' including getting an attorney and trying to beat your spouse by getting the first meeting with them so you have the first shot at the best bulldog attorney. Of course it's sad - tragic even. But when there's no cheating happening there's no reason to do any of that. Once a spouse suspects it's difficult to ignore the gut feeling, the signs, the changes in a long relationship and it's hard to not have the desire to find out what's causing the changes. Truth - some want it and some don't.
Hope Shimmers Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) I have no feelings if whether or not it's a husband or a wife. My feelings are usually to support the one who was cheated on - the one needing support. That you would make that comment shows you have no idea how I feel about men. For most men - I love them. 2sunny, I honestly don't care what you feel one way or another. I gave you my impression about your posts. It's just my impression. To me you are like a bulldog who won't let go of a bone and you keep persisting. But that is just my own opinion. I wasn't trying to single you out. But I can't imagine being her. I would be dizzy with all the posts and advice. Then to get hit with "what did the VAR say?" is just too much. Who the hell cares what the VAR said at this point, after a day? Isn't the truth already evident, so why does it matter? Maybe down the line that level of detail will matter to her, but sheesh... enough. Let her absorb the fact that her H said he was in love with someone else before expecting her to worry about VARs. Edited August 7, 2014 by Hope Shimmers 2
velvette Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 My advice is to clarify for yourself what kind of marriage you want. I assume it is one of complete honesty with a husband who does not have a girlfriend. Tell your H you don't need a trial separation to determine what you want and that if he needs to lie and have a girlfriend, he needs to find somewhere else to live. If you have any desire to reconcile, tell him you want a loving honest M and will be happy to work with him to that end as soon as he gets rid of his girlfriend, comes clean and enters counseling to deal with his personal issues that allowed this to happen. Should you get to that point later you can lay out all your terms for reconciliation. No point in overburdening his brain now since he's operating in some fantasy land where he gets whatever he wants however he wants. Don't mention divorce and if he asks point blank just say you only know you cant live this way. Who cares what he wants or if he has an apt. Let him go to a hotel or stay with a friend. Once you find your own clarity, it becomes much easier to remain above the fray and just keep stating what you want and what you are willing or not willing to do. There's no need to argue, since for you these items are non-negotiable. Theres really no point in even discussing it right now as he is not in a rational frame of mind. Just find your talking points and repeat them over and over. Stop listening to his jibberish about ILYBNILWY. There is no such state of mind for normal people. It is a condition unique to people whose brains are fogged by affairs. If he loved OW, he wouldn't be asking for a trial separation, he would be asking for a D. Ditto if he didn't love you, he would be asking you for a D instead of a trial separation. Their R whatever it is will fall apart. If it was going anywhere, he would be making an honest R of it. It didn't work before so no reason to expect it will now 20 years later. Staying a part of the triangle just keeps it propped up. Let OW do the heavy lifting to make it work. She wont be able to with someone as messed up as your H. Doesn't sound like shes too good a R anyway. And, if she's settling for an A, she likely has tons of issues herself. It all sucks, but it becomes a lot easier when you decide what you will and will not accept for yourself and your son. Once you have that yardstick, you can measure everything by that no matter how crazy you feel. Also, see an attorney and cover all your legal/financial bases. If you need help sleeping or with anxiety, see your doctor as well. 1
BetrayedH Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Frankly I think it's sad that so many marriages have come to the point of "collecting evidence", placing recorders in cars, and the sharing of a whole document of information about how you should 'protect yourself' including getting an attorney and trying to beat your spouse by getting the first meeting with them so you have the first shot at the best bulldog attorney. It's absolutely sad. It was, by far, the saddest thing I ever experienced. I lost 38lbs (25 of them in the first month). I don't think I slept a decent night's sleep in a year. I had essentially invested my entire adult life (18 years - from the time I was 23 years old) in that relationship with her. I had a good career, too, but even that was all built around taking care of my wife and family. All of my life plans were centered around it. For that relationship to end is hard enough, but to find out that your spouse has been lying straight to your face for over a year about having a physical and emotional relationship with someone else is downright surreal. And they keep lying, denying, minimizing, gaslighting, and repeating. They take advantage of our trust, our desire to trust, our desire to forgive. We find ourselves slowly discovering that the one person in life that is supposed to have our back, is in fact twisting a knife in it. And they won't tell us the truth. Suddenly we come to this awful realization that our spouse may actually be our enemy. What else would you have us do but find out the truth so we can make an informed decision? And yes, start to protect ourselves. Hell, half of us just want the truth so we can begin to accept and forgive it. I really tire of the inference that BSs are somehow the crazy ones for having these reactions. The whole thing is definitely crazy-making but it's the lying, denying, minimizing, and gaslighting that is the root cause. Finding the truth is the solution and the waywards leave us little choice but to counter their subterfuge with subterfuge to get it. If we don't, we're just the fool allowing ourselves to be taken advantage of. Screw that. Is it sad? Sure. It's a freaking disasterous situation, completely engineered by the wayward. But I'll recommend for a BS to dig for the truth and to protect themselves every time. 6
Steen719 Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 It's absolutely sad. It was, by far, the saddest thing I ever experienced. I lost 38lbs (25 of them in the first month). I don't think I slept a decent night's sleep in a year. I had essentially invested my entire adult life (18 years - from the time I was 23 years old) in that relationship with her. I had a good career, too, but even that was all built around taking care of my wife and family. All of my life plans were centered around it. For that relationship to end is hard enough, but to find out that your spouse has been lying straight to your face for over a year about having a physical and emotional relationship with someone else is downright surreal. And they keep lying, denying, minimizing, gaslighting, and repeating. They take advantage of our trust, our desire to trust, our desire to forgive. We find ourselves slowly discovering that the one person in life that is supposed to have our back, is in fact twisting a knife in it. And they won't tell us the truth. Suddenly we come to this awful realization that our spouse may actually be our enemy. What else would you have us do but find out the truth so we can make an informed decision? And yes, start to protect ourselves. Hell, half of us just want the truth so we can begin to accept and forgive it. I really tire of the inference that BSs are somehow the crazy ones for having these reactions. The whole thing is definitely crazy-making but it's the lying, denying, minimizing, and gaslighting that is the root cause. Finding the truth is the solution and the waywards leave us little choice but to counter their subterfuge with subterfuge to get it. If we don't, we're just the fool allowing ourselves to be taken advantage of. Screw that. Is it sad? Sure. It's a freaking disasterous situation, completely engineered by the wayward. But I'll recommend for a BS to dig for the truth and to protect themselves every time. Double like for me.
gettingstronger Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Frankly I think it's sad that so many marriages have come to the point of "collecting evidence", placing recorders in cars, and the sharing of a whole document of information about how you should 'protect yourself' including getting an attorney and trying to beat your spouse by getting the first meeting with them so you have the first shot at the best bulldog attorney. I so agree, and I am not judging, maybe just knocking wood- but I am glad my husband came clean when confronted- I think it would be so very difficult for me to do some of the things SamSam is being advised to do- I am not saying its bad advice, but I would probably just walk away from a relationship where I had to do those things to get at the truth- but then again, I would have said I would walk away from the relationship I am in now before it became my reality- Bottom line- A's are soul crushing, life changing events and I am sad for every single one of us affected by them- 1
woinlove Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Let her absorb the fact that her H said he was in love with someone else before expecting her to worry about VARs. What her husband actually said when asked was he didn't know if he was in love with her. That's the whole problem of dealing with secret affairs and deception. Perhaps she should just assume he is in love with the OW. Perhaps she should assume a lot of things that he isn't saying or is denying. SamSam found the truth only because she investigated and, yes, the deception and lies are definitely sad - particularly since they are raising a child. Heartbreaking sad that a parent, and a spouse, would behave this way and bring such deception in the home. 1
BetrayedH Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 I am glad my husband came clean when confronted- I think it would be so very difficult for me to do some of the things SamSam is being advised to do- I am not saying its bad advice, but I would probably just walk away from a relationship where I had to do those things to get at the truth- but then again, I would have said I would walk away from the relationship I am in now before it became my reality- You can certainly see why a voluntary confession literally doubles the chances of reconciliation. All of the lying stuff can make a person just wondering WTF is really going on and I think is much harder to forgive than the fact that your spouse fell for someone. I think pretty much all of us would have said that infidelity would be a marital dealbreaker. It turns out that most of us end up grappling with the concept of saving the marriage (and family) much more than we expected. But we can't make a rational decision without real information. Personally, I recommend multi-tasking. Once you "know" that unacceptable behavior has occurred, dig for the truth and make plans (via an attorney) to make your boundaries known. 1
Author SamSam68 Posted August 7, 2014 Author Posted August 7, 2014 Frankly I think it's sad that so many marriages have come to the point of "collecting evidence", placing recorders in cars, and the sharing of a whole document of information about how you should 'protect yourself' including getting an attorney and trying to beat your spouse by getting the first meeting with them so you have the first shot at the best bulldog attorney. I so agree, and I am not judging, maybe just knocking wood- but I am glad my husband came clean when confronted- I think it would be so very difficult for me to do some of the things SamSam is being advised to do- I am not saying its bad advice, but I would probably just walk away from a relationship where I had to do those things to get at the truth- but then again, I would have said I would walk away from the relationship I am in now before it became my reality- Bottom line- A's are soul crushing, life changing events and I am sad for every single one of us affected by them- I'm not asking this to be harsh, I just want to understand since you reconciled. How do you KNOW your H told you everything. He confessed, but how do you know it wasn't a lot more than what he has told you? My H told me some stuff, but I suspect it goes much deeper. Because of this lack of trust, I just doubt I can rebuild. 1
Author SamSam68 Posted August 7, 2014 Author Posted August 7, 2014 I am going on vacation for a few days with son without H. I have been reading all of your replies, thank you. At this point, my feeling is that my marriage is ending. Because it is ending, I don't think it is necessary to torture myself with the details that will likely come out of spying. I believe in my heart and my head that his affair is more than emotional. I have told him this is my belief. At his point he isn't begging to fix our marriage. I am starting to shop for lawyers. It is quite overwhelming. sidenote: I live in a no fault state. 7
jackslife Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Sometimes it's easy to forget when we comment on threads or discuss with other posters that there are real people at the other end of these posts. One day an OP posts that she is concerned about her husbands behaviour re ex girlfriend and a week later she is looking at divorce. A real life turned upside down in a short space of time. How very sad. Non of us know what's waiting for us around the corner. 6
stillafool Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 I hope you are able to relax and clear your mind somewhat on your vacation. I think you are doing the right thing by getting away from it all at this point. He is going to do what he wants anyway. Is he still planning on moving to an apartment?
Recommended Posts