SamSam68 Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 My H was recently outed in his (at minimum) emotional affair with a woman from his past. After confrontation, things have been edgy. My mother has been staying in our home, making things better for my son and I but making the H very uncomfortable. Last night H told me "he wants a trial separation." He is "confused". Claims he doesn't plan to be with OW. Claims hotel reservation in August wasn't for the OW. Admits to having feelings for OW, but doesn't "understand" them. Says he loves me and loves our son but isn't "in love." Doesn't know if he is "in love" with OW. Says he is thinking of moving to an apartment complex near his office. Wants to get a 2 br for son's visits. Says I can have the house, same $ etc. He must really want out. I don't know how I feel. I'm numb. I'm mad at him. I'm mad at the OW...would love to have a word with her. I don't want him to stay, but I also don't want him to go. I can't imagine living in his house with just my son. I asked him to wait at least until the end of the summer and to still attend the counseling session we have scheduled on this Thursday.
stillafool Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 I'm so sorry Sam. So he knows he isn't in love with you but is unsure about being in love with the OW? It is time to let him go. Don't try to hold on to him because that will make him want to run. He wants to get the apartment to explore his relationship with her I imagine. Maybe your mom needs to go home and let you guys sort this out alone at this point. 2
veryhappy Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 These things play like the same bad movie. I was the ow in the same plot 2 years ago. He won't be going anywhere, not for good anyway. Throw him something, anything of what he wants and he'll stay. Pretty sure he'll attend that session too. That's how it happened in my case. So keep calm and carry on, he won't divorce. Now the tricky part is making sure the ow is gone. I don't know what word you want with the ow, but she's not the cause of your problems and you're better off not focusing on her. Best results are achieved if you do let him separate and do not let him bounce between the two of you. When the triangle truly breaks, you'll very likely still have your marriage. 1
stillafool Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Do you know if he and the OW had a full romance back in college that included sex?
HermioneG Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Unfortunately, there is basically a script that some waywards follow, and even an acronym for what he is doing- giving you the ILYBNILWY speech. Shut down the bakery. Stop talking to him outside of financial and child arrangements. Do not give him any emotional validation at all. This will protect your heart and mental health, as well as stop giving him who kibbles. You are not in a competition for your spouse. You are the prize. If he needs space, by all means, let him go and take it, and let it be with next to zero contact with you. 6
Snowflower Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 SamSam, I was sad to read the latest developments in your story. I was hoping that we were all wrong in our assumptions. It gets tricky here for you know to what to do and I know it is so difficult. It gets more difficult for any of us advising you to tell you what is definitively the right thing to do. I agree that your H's affair, even including his actions now where he "might" want to move out are so incredibly cliche. He probably thinks he is the first married man to have ever experienced what he is going though but he sounds very similar to my husband and countless other stories I have read here. So, the joke is on him...he is not anything special! The thing is though, while all affairs and the immediate aftermath (what you are dealing with NOW unfortunately) are the same and cliche like I said, what happens next can vary widely. Some people will swear that you have to separate in order to figure out the next step, while others will say that you need to stay together. Some will tell you to file divorce immediately and some will say to wait. I think the single thing most important thing to determine here is what YOU want, SamSam. Forget about what your husband wants. Screw him, he messed up badly. What do you want? If you don't know, that is okay. Don't make any decisions at this time if you can avoid it. If he is not messing with you financially or otherwise, maybe just sit on this for a bit until you get a little equilibrium. You don't want to make a hasty decision under extreme duress that you regret later, if you can avoid it. If he makes "noise" about moving out, remain non-commital and calm. I think the best thing you can do right now is consult an attorney about your rights just in case he really pulls the rug out from under you and files for divorce, starts spending an extreme amount of money, etc, wants to take your child with him, etc. Knowledge is power. 6
HereNorThere Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) Stay strong and true to your beliefs. You wouldn't treat someone you love like he is treating you, so you obviously deserve better. He's just bitter because you outsmarted him and now he has to pay a price for being a jerk. I think this just goes to show that you were completely right in your assumptions. Life does go on and although it may not seem like it now, you will fall in love again one day. Maybe this time it will be with someone who appreciates someone with your level of commitment and loyalty. Good luck with everything and I PROMISE you that life will get better. The sooner he is out of the house for good, the sooner the healing will begin. No arguing, no counseling, get your sh*t and get out of here. You know he's capable of this and no matter what happens, you'll spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder if you stay with someone who would do this to their family. Since he is obviously not much of a man, you have to step up and be a good role model for your child now. Edited August 5, 2014 by HereNorThere 1
jackslife Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Not that it is that relevant now, but safe to say he has had an affair. He is not risking finances and his marriage, his relationship with his son over a few smutty text messages. The scary thing here is that he has come right out and says he wants to separate. Emotionally he is in very deep with OW, usually a MM will prevaricate, can't decide, umms and aaahhs. He is saying he is confused, but wants to leave. Maybe in his head that is the only way he can sort himself out. Although it is an old MM excuse, it is a fact that MM don't want to lose touch with their children or become part time dads. Breaking up from your children is a lot tougher than leaving a wife only. Just because it is a well used MM excuse not to leave their spouse for OW, don't think it isn't a just reason. Your husband has decided that leaving his son for an OW is a good idea and (no offence) that is a far more serious situation than just leaving you. I think the counsellor idea is excellent, but if you want to keep your husband make absolutely no mistake you are in a fight to keep him. He may be making a huge mistake or in the long run maybe he isn't but he is at a crossroads here. A lot of posters on here suggested kicking him out, getting an attorney and you even said that you didn't think you wanted him. A big surprise then to have him say he wants to go. Despite what I have said above, your one positive if you want to reconcile with your husband and deep down don't want to lose him is statistically he is far more likely to stay with you then leave for OW. Your son and finances together ultimately seal the relationship for him. 2
woinlove Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 A couple days ago he was telling you that you have nothing to worry about and the concerns were all in your head, maybe because you had a drink, and now he says he's not in love with you! And he doesn't know if he loves the OW, the one who he said was so needy and pushed things emotionally! You know you deserve so much more than this. Maybe one day he'll turn into a man who deserves you, maybe not, but he certainly isn't that man now. So take good care of yourself and your son, lean on family when it helps. Of course, you still have so many feelings and attachments to him - two weeks ago you thought he was your loving, loyal, honest partner. But focus on what he is right now and how much more your deserve and don't fall into the trap of wanting him because he is elusive. Whether he ends up with you, OW or neither, he has a lot of work to do to become a loving, loyal, honest partner. Many never do that work and no one can do it for them. 4
IfWishesWereHorses Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 I wish I'd known about the 180. Cancel that counseling appt for the two of you and keep it for yourself. Help him pack his things. I agree not to make any decisions right now. A consult with a lawyer at this point will behoove you. You don't have to file right now. The person who consults the best lawyer first gets him. I've know people who made consults with every lawyer in town for that reason. I think that fee was $150-$200 in my neck of the woods. Be proactive. Please check out the 180 and read a little more about the affair fog. It's hard to be in love with the person you have loved while experiencing limerence for another person. Not sure about speaking to his OW, that could go good or bad. Didn't you say that she was in the middle of a divorce? Does she have a job where she lives? Does she have children of her own? Again, so very sorry. 4
Timmos Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Script. I doubt there are many BS's who haven't heard the exact same thing. Like the others, I'd advise going 180. 2
Author SamSam68 Posted August 5, 2014 Author Posted August 5, 2014 In a nutshell, the "180" is "supporting" his decision to leave? Help him pack his crap and let him move to the apartment?
stillafool Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 I wouldn't help him pack but I would definitely let him leave. If you don't his desire to do so will grow. It seems he has unresolved issues around this woman and no matter how much you try to keep them apart they will find a way. I think it will help you to go forward also without watching and policing him. Maybe you should try independent counseling to help you through this. I know this is hard and tearing you apart. ((((HUGS))) 2
whichwayisup Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 He can't have a 'trial separation' and go be with the OW, test out the waters to see if they truly are compatible...So if they are, you two divorce? And if they aren't, he comes home back to you? Sorry, it doesn't work that way, he can't keep you hanging and ask you to put your life on hold while he goes off and plays 'house' with the OW. Either he stays and does counseling on his own and with you - And the OW is out of the picture, or he moves out. I'm sorry for your pain. 6
IfWishesWereHorses Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it) So here's the list: Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore. No frequent phone calls. Don't point out "good points" in marriage. Don't follow her/him around the house. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS. Don't ask for reassurances. Don't buy or give gifts. Don't schedule dates together. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life! Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy! When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to! If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them! Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation! Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF! Don't be overly enthusiastic. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all! Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more! Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care! Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!" Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW." 7
2sunny Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Have you moved money, closed his credit cards and made sure you protect yourself? He's got a plan. His plan doesn't include you anymore. His plan involves taking his OW on trips to fancy hotels and expensive meals. Get your divorce papers ready. Maybe he can be served while he's on his trip with his OW...? Since he's planning his life with his OW - start planning yours without him!! I'd be flaming mad! Go get ahold of every asset you can! Don't hand anything over until a judge demands it! He wants an apt? Fine - change the locks to the house! He isn't the husband you thought he was - he's the enemy now! If you don't fight for everything you want - it's the same as handing your stuff over to his OW. He's wanting an apt so she can come stay with him. And what has the VAR indicated - have you listened to it yet? Start putting them everywhere - you need to know what he's plotting and planning. 1
HereNorThere Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 In a nutshell, the "180" is "supporting" his decision to leave? Help him pack his crap and let him move to the apartment? I wouldn't exactly say "help him pack his things." It's more like throwing them in the front yard and flipping him off as he picks them up in the pouring rain. He certainly hasn't been nice to you. I mean, he's lied, cheated, destroyed a family and perfectly good relationship. You owe this man NOTHING. You can't save him, but you can save yourself and your child. Get a therapist and lawyer and handle your business. This is no longer about him, this is about you and your child. It's about protecting your child from a person who would do this to their family. Do you really think you could ever look at him the same way again? 2
Davey L Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Most of the advice here is about getting rid of your husband. However, if you do want to reconcile, there is one thing I suggest you must do immediately - get your mother out of the house now. With her there you do not have the privacy to have the discussions you need to have. If I were in your husband's position, no matter how contrite I was, how much I wanted to continue to work on the marriage and give up the other woman, it would be impossible for me to stay with your mother (or any other family member) there - the situation would be completely intolerable. 2
2sunny Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 I think it's important that YOU decide what's best for you. Decide - then take the steps (action) that coincide with your decision. Make sure YOUR ACTIONS send a clear message to your H. You wouldn't want to be the one to "cause confusion" like he's doing - by being SO UNSURE about what he intends to do. Give me a break - he knows what he's been doing - he knows what he's planning - and he knows what he's setting up. Tell him to cut the crap! Quit with the lies - he needs no time to decide because he's already decided. And IF he hasn't maybe it's time you decide FOR him. Look out for YOUR best interest!!! He's about to screw you over royally. Don't ALLOW it - get a plan and start doing something about the mess he's creating!
Author SamSam68 Posted August 5, 2014 Author Posted August 5, 2014 I have, in essense, being doing the "180" not so much as a tactical move, but because it is the only way I know how to cope right now. I'm not going to stand in his way...the door is open. In fact, if he stays much longer, I may show him to the door. My mother is being helpful right now because I feel sick and am spaced out...don't even feel like I should be driving my son to and from day camp right now. Everything is surreal. I think I"m going to cancel the counseling appt. and leave H a note suggesting he go to that apartment he spoke of and/or stay with the OW. Things are too uncomfortable here. We have separate credit cards and only one shared account. The shared account doesn't have a ton of money in it right now. I do not think he plans to screw me financially. Just my feeling. I think he feels guilty that he doesn't love me and that he has the hots for an ex, but not so guilty that he actually wants to stop it and fix things. As for the poster who asked if he was sexually involved with the OW when they were together before ...I would assume so. It was over 2 decades ago, but they did reside together and I know he was a wreck (according to a friend) after she left him. 2
2sunny Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 I hate saying this... DO NOT assume he won't screw you out of money! Make sure you have access to as much money as you need - in case he decides he needs a ton of it to keep his OW happy. Don't be surprised when he starts spending on a house for her, vacations with her and anything else in order to keep her around. 1
IfWishesWereHorses Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 The biggest mistake I made was not choosing to rely on a friend or family member. I was so ashamed to tell anyone and my mom had recently passed away. I remember getting a call from the school when my DS convinced the after school care workers that he wasn't supposed to be there! I was so embarrassed! Take the help, your lucky to have it! Of course your H would be uncomfortable as he should be. Get some counseling for yourself though, to help you cope and think through things. 4
stillafool Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 As for the poster who asked if he was sexually involved with the OW when they were together before ...I would assume so. It was over 2 decades ago, but they did reside together and I know he was a wreck (according to a friend) after she left him. That was me. I was thinking if they didn't have sex back then perhaps this was his chance to live out his fantasy, but I see that's not the case here afterall. I was thinking once he slept with her and got it out of his system he'd want to slither back home. How long were they together back then? How long has she been married? How many children does she have?
2sunny Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Have your Mom stay. He should be uncomfortable! He's cheating and lying. Print balances on all accounts even retirement money. That way when he spends you have solid proof what the balance was before he started spending and is his responsibility... Not putting half of his spending as your debt. Think smart! Smarter than him! Get copies of tax returns - your going to need them for the attorney visit. And schedule that like NOW. 4
woinlove Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Most of the advice here is about getting rid of your husband. However, if you do want to reconcile, there is one thing I suggest you must do immediately - get your mother out of the house now. With her there you do not have the privacy to have the discussions you need to have. If I were in your husband's position, no matter how contrite I was, how much I wanted to continue to work on the marriage and give up the other woman, it would be impossible for me to stay with your mother (or any other family member) there - the situation would be completely intolerable. DIfferent people find different things intolerable. To me, having my H's mother live with us for a week or so would be much more tolerable than having him lie and deceive in order to pursue a secret romantic attachment, probably sex, with another woman. And then upon discovery, making it clear he wants to sort out his feelings for another woman would be intolerable to me. Sharing our home for a short period is pretty far down the list of intolerable to us, compared to honesty and openness with each other. I get the feeling that honesty and openness is pretty important to SamSam too and she really needs the support now, given her H's deception and betrayal. SamSam, you really need to focus on yourself and your son right now, because your H is not and has demonstrated he is capable of great deceit and selfishness at your expense. I don't think you can trust him no matter what he says right now. 5
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