How often does the affair turn into a true relationship?

[DKT3]

There is no such thing as happily ever after outside of fairy tales and fantasies. Number one fallacy about ANY relationship.

 

I sooo strongly disagree with this. As I see it people make two huge mistakes when it comes to relationships 1) too quick in, too quick out 2) unhappy in and expecting the partner to generate their happiness. Once that fails they start to look outward instead of inward. I'm unhappy so it has to be because of my partner right?

 

This follows a person no matter who they are in a relationship with.

 

Happy is a state of mind, not the person in mind.

[gettingstronger]

I agree that stats do not lie- its a matter of what side of the stats you are on- are you the 4% that makes it or the 96% that don't- I never imagined I would be on the sad side of the infidelity stat, that is for sure-

 

If the OP is looking for anecdotal evidence I know of 2 long term marriages that were results of affairs- neither are trusting marriages but can I say for sure that its because they started as affairs, no- maybe its the people involved-

 

As far as affairs that didn't turn to marriages- well, I know of quite a few that have not- I know of a bunch of affairs that turned to divorce where the men later left their AP- again, may have more to do with the men involved than anything else-

[bentleychic]

We're 10 months post-A. Last month was tough and we almost didn't make it. Time will tell what the future holds.

(((Wrinkled))) did you post another update? Would love to hear it or be given the link, if so. If you don't want to post it, please feel free to pm me if you'd like. Pulling for you!

[cocorico]

I can't answer "how often" since none of the stats tossed about actually measured that - and many weren't proper research studies but more journalistic "studies" or anecdotal figures from someone's professional practice, which simply don't have the design or rigour behind them that proper research does...

 

But I will report that I'm another fOW now blissfully M to my fMM for several years. And no, no trust issues - not even in passing. We've both given up a great deal to be in this R, we both want it very badly, we both love and respect each other and we're both prepared to put in the effort to make things work - and they do.

 

In our favour, we're older, our kids are all grown, so we don't have the added stress of blending families, and his kids and mine get on very well as young adults. I get on brilliantly with his siblings, love his parents to bits and have been welcomed warmly into his family. We have an active social life with a great group of friends around the world, and we work hard and play hard and throw ourselves passionately into everything we do. The only hassle we've had is the psycho xBW but she's more like an irritating fly buzzing around than a real issue.

 

More to the point, for those reading who really want to know, "will *my* R work out in the long run", the answer is: how strong is it now? Is it a R based on love and respect, where you *know* you are their priority because you see it in their actions rather than just hearing it in their words? Are you both working toward being together full-time, with concrete steps that are visible not just to each other but to your friends and families, and are your lives becoming more integrated as you build a shared future together? if you can see the R becoming a long-term FTR already, and it is the kind of R you want for yourself, then you have your answer. But if you have doubts, don't see any progress or are treated worse than you would want in a LTR, then you need to ask if that is what you want from your R. If it's not, don't hang around in the hopes it will change, because chances are it won't. The patterns you forge now in your R are the ones you will carry into any future R, and if they're unsatisfactory now, you have no realistic basis to hope they'll change in some mythical future.

[littleblackheart]

I don't think it matters all that much whether affairs turn into a relationship or not - they might, they might not - those kinds of stats help no-one in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I for instance couldn't care less how long my ex will stay with his affair partner; I care a lot more that he had at least one affair in the first place. He could very well marry her tomorrow and will live a happy, successful relationship (I wish them all the best), or he may have used her to leave.

 

 

To me, what's more worrying is the staggering amount of cheating going on in all kinds of relationships - the stats thrown about on the subject (40 to 60% of all relationships will experience at least one instance of unfaithfulness) seem very, very conservative, and I'm guessing one of the reasons why the percentage of affairs turning into relationships is so low is because a lot of people won't admit they met behind their partner's back, will keep the affair quiet until the primary relationship is over, wait a couple of months and then go public - I've seen it happen a lot of times. Then again, where I'm from (France) we don't shy away from these kinds of conversations

[Got it]

I sooo strongly disagree with this. As I see it people make two huge mistakes when it comes to relationships 1) too quick in, too quick out 2) unhappy in and expecting the partner to generate their happiness. Once that fails they start to look outward instead of inward. I'm unhappy so it has to be because of my partner right?

 

This follows a person no matter who they are in a relationship with.

 

Happy is a state of mind, not the person in mind.

 

I never said the points you are making. I am saying it is a fallacy to believe in happily ever after. Happily EVER after means from here after you will be happy or things will be happy. That is wrong. Life is neither consistently happy or sad or anything. It is ever changing.

 

This idea of "happily ever after" means things are accomplished and then everything else is wrapped up in this little bow called happily ever after.

 

Lol actually your post is actually more agreeing with my point than disagreeing.

[Got it]

I agree that stats do not lie- its a matter of what side of the stats you are on- are you the 4% that makes it or the 96% that don't- I never imagined I would be on the sad side of the infidelity stat, that is for sure-

 

If the OP is looking for anecdotal evidence I know of 2 long term marriages that were results of affairs- neither are trusting marriages but can I say for sure that its because they started as affairs, no- maybe its the people involved-

 

As far as affairs that didn't turn to marriages- well, I know of quite a few that have not- I know of a bunch of affairs that turned to divorce where the men later left their AP- again, may have more to do with the men involved than anything else-

 

Really? Stats don't lie??? According to whom? I guess these people are wrong then:

 

“There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics.”

― Benjamin Disraeli

 

“Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.”

― Mark Twain

 

Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamppost: for support, not illumination.

Vin Scully

 

“Whenever I read statistical reports, I try to imagine my unfortunate contemporary, the Average Person, who, according to these reports, has 0.66 children, 0.032 cars, and 0.046 TVs.”

― Kató Lomb

 

“...it is worth looking closer and remembering something Marcos Alvito told me: Statistics are like a bikini. They show so much, but they hide the most important parts.”

― Dave Zirin

 

And why I don't believe that stats used in most cases are of any real relevance (and citing Miss Bee's post)

 

“Above all else show the data.”

― Edward R. Tufte, The Visual Display of Quantitative Information

 

Until you can actual cite the perimeters used around the study, any blinds needed/established, and any other defining pieces as far as I am aware you stat was based on a Facebook survey asking people if their favorite jello pudding is vanilla or chocolate. It means nothing.

 

Why anyone cares what some stats may say, and what that may extrapolation into their lives I have no idea. I never studied stats when I started dating at 16, when I decided to first have sex, or have my first real boyfriend to determine if something was going to pan out for me. I have never thought to reference statistics for any life decision. I weigh the facts in front of me and I evaluate from there.

 

So OP - how often does an affair turn to a "real" relationship? Often enough to happen, not often enough to be a guarantee. Everything in the middle of that is the details.

[goodyblue]

Really? Stats don't lie??? According to whom? I guess these people are wrong then:

 

“There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics.”

― Benjamin Disraeli

 

“Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.”

― Mark Twain

 

Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamppost: for support, not illumination.

Vin Scully

 

“Whenever I read statistical reports, I try to imagine my unfortunate contemporary, the Average Person, who, according to these reports, has 0.66 children, 0.032 cars, and 0.046 TVs.”

― Kató Lomb

 

“...it is worth looking closer and remembering something Marcos Alvito told me: Statistics are like a bikini. They show so much, but they hide the most important parts.”

― Dave Zirin

 

And why I don't believe that stats used in most cases are of any real relevance (and citing Miss Bee's post)

 

“Above all else show the data.”

― Edward R. Tufte, The Visual Display of Quantitative Information

 

Until you can actual cite the perimeters used around the study, any blinds needed/established, and any other defining pieces as far as I am aware you stat was based on a Facebook survey asking people if their favorite jello pudding is vanilla or chocolate. It means nothing.

 

Why anyone cares what some stats may say, and what that may extrapolation into their lives I have no idea. I never studied stats when I started dating at 16, when I decided to first have sex, or have my first real boyfriend to determine if something was going to pan out for me. I have never thought to reference statistics for any life decision. I weigh the facts in front of me and I evaluate from there.

 

So OP - how often does an affair turn to a "real" relationship? Often enough to happen, not often enough to be a guarantee. Everything in the middle of that is the details.

 

Of course you know why they use it. Mostly on here and other forums they are used to say "Your relationship will never work". On either side of the equation. And it's crap.

 

OP, I'm happy in my relationship. We have done really well as a couple. I know people in affairs who did turn out in a good relationship, and I know some who didn't. You can never say what it'll be.

[Sub]

Yeah, my WW didn't stop the OM as he was unzipping his pants and say, "Just gimme a sec. I need to crunch some numbers on our probability for success here." Stats, probabilities, etc. mean little when it comes to emotionally charged situations. A's aren't the healthiest way to begin an R. (That's just my opinion.) I'd venture to guess that the people involved would have preferred they didn't start that way. But if a single healthy relationship comes out of it, it's possible. That's all that matters.

[MissBee]

Of course you know why they use it. Mostly on here and other forums they are used to say "Your relationship will never work". On either side of the equation. And it's crap.

OP, I'm happy in my relationship. We have done really well as a couple. I know people in affairs who did turn out in a good relationship, and I know some who didn't. You can never say what it'll be.

 

I don't think this is true...or at least this is only part of the picture. Many of the times the question about how often and stats is posed by OW/OM looking for hope or curious about what the odds are for them and not only other people telling them it won't work out out of nowhere. Also what I gather from Got It wasn't about LS but in general a comment on why people care about statistics in terms of their own lives as you will live your life and things will turn out how they turn out. Or as I said...it's silly to act like in life there are no trends and patterns and a mean. There is. Knowing where you fall or could fall is what's important.

 

I therefore genuinely don't understand why it's upsetting for people to tell someone that the odds aren't in their favor. I truly don't get it, as knowing this just arms you with the knowledge that it MAY not work out, as that seems to be the trend, but it doesn't determine if it will or won't. I don't think it is done with malice but most times with concern for someone who is often distraught, putting their life on hold and waiting for things to go well and for me, I think while it may seem "nice" to simply only tell them about those it worked out for or just provide all this hope, it's really not if you don't also add a dose of reality.

 

I compare it to when I applied for my grad program. On the school's website in the admissions section is cites that only 9% of applicants are accepted into the school. That means that realistically more people will get rejected than accepted. Knowing this made me realistic that the chances were higher that I'd not be accepted...however that didn't deter me. I know what I know about myself and qualifications and also believed "What's mine is mine..." so applied with the hope I'd get in if it was meant for me, but admittedly I was also unsure if I'd get in and felt it was more likely I wouldn't. Turns out I got in...many more didn't though. It working out for me and I can only speak for the fact that I got in, and could NEVER tell someone else they won't get in, as how would I know? But when people inquire about the program one of the first things is about how hard is it to get in and I simply tell them the truth: it's competitive, most people don't get in, and in our department specifically, we only accept 4-6 applicants a year, nevertheless you can apply and you may very well be accepted!

 

I see the whole "how often" and affairs very similarly. More OW/OM end up brokenhearted or with it not working out than those who end up together in the open or married...that seems to be the trend...knowing this IMO only helps someone be realistic and even think of other options. It doesn't change what will happen for them though and things will have to pan out for them...but I just don't understand the absolute resistance to people pointing out the overwhelming trend of it often not working out.

[carhill]

Using criteria for 'real' relationship of living together long-term or being married, of all the MW's I've known over the decades only one has substantively withstood the test of time with her fAP, that exemplified by being together over a decade and cohabiting for the last five years.

 

I had one other example who had promise but she died.

 

From my own experiences I feel exit affairs have the greatest opportunity for withstanding the test of time, with 'exit' meaning both parties, if both are married, or the married party, if married/single, is ready to 'move on' and the new person is who they've chosen to move on with. That was the case with the success story I related.

 

So, IME, based on what I've known of affairs over the decades, very few have worked out long-term. However, it's entirely possible, and probable, that whatever existed at the time, for however long it existed, was 'real' to the participants, so their perspectives may be decidedly different.

[goodyblue]

I don't think this is true...or at least this is only part of the picture. Many of the times the question about how often and stats is posed by OW/OM looking for hope or curious about what the odds are for them and not only other people telling them it won't work out out of nowhere. Also what I gather from Got It wasn't about LS but in general a comment on why people care about statistics in terms of their own lives as you will live your life and things will turn out how they turn out. Or as I said...it's silly to act like in life there are no trends and patterns and a mean. There is. Knowing where you fall or could fall is what's important.

 

I therefore genuinely don't understand why it's upsetting for people to tell someone that the odds aren't in their favor. I truly don't get it, as knowing this just arms you with the knowledge that it MAY not work out, as that seems to be the trend, but it doesn't determine if it will or won't. I don't think it is done with malice but most times with concern for someone who is often distraught, putting their life on hold and waiting for things to go well and for me, I think while it may seem "nice" to simply only tell them about those it worked out for or just provide all this hope, it's really not if you don't also add a dose of reality.

 

I compare it to when I applied for my grad program. On the school's website in the admissions section is cites that only 9% of applicants are accepted into the school. That means that realistically more people will get rejected than accepted. Knowing this made me realistic that the chances were higher that I'd not be accepted...however that didn't deter me. I know what I know about myself and qualifications and also believed "What's mine is mine..." so applied with the hope I'd get in if it was meant for me, but admittedly I was also unsure if I'd get in and felt it was more likely I wouldn't. Turns out I got in...many more didn't though. It working out for me and I can only speak for the fact that I got in, and could NEVER tell someone else they won't get in, as how would I know? But when people inquire about the program one of the first things is about how hard is it to get in and I simply tell them the truth: it's competitive, most people don't get in, and in our department specifically, we only accept 4-6 applicants a year, nevertheless you can apply and you may very well be accepted!

 

I see the whole "how often" and affairs very similarly. More OW/OM end up brokenhearted or with it not working out than those who end up together in the open or married...that seems to be the trend...knowing this IMO only helps someone be realistic and even think of other options. It doesn't change what will happen for them though and things will have to pan out for them...but I just don't understand the absolute resistance to people pointing out the overwhelming trend of it often not working out.

 

Your quote is nothing like any 'stats' that are out there on affairs, or affairs that end up in relatively happy relationships because the admissions office knew exactly how many people had applied whereas nobody knows how many people's relationships began as affairs. The stigma, the secrecy prevents lots of people from ever admitting their relationship began as an affair. There's no way to get an honest stat, even when it's anonymous.

 

I don't deny that most affairs don't work out. I just think that it is higher than what is stated here on LS, based solely on my experience. No more, no less.

 

But... I do understand the point you are trying to make. And lots of OW do end up broken hearted. That's the hardest, saddest part. Lots of BS's end up broken hearted too, and it's equally as sad.

Edited July 31, 2014 by goodyblue

[notserene]

Hmm...I wonder if many affairs don't "work out" because at least one of the people involved has no serious intent to make the leap out of the "primary" relationship?

 

I would think this describes the majority of affairs...but it's just a guess. And my guess is that real "exit affairs" are relatively uncommon.

 

My father in law married the woman he was having an affair with and they stayed married until he passed away (at a relatively young age, from cancer). So I know that it happens.

[MissBee]

Your quote is nothing like any 'stats' that are out there on affairs, or affairs that end up in relatively happy relationships because the admissions office knew exactly how many people had applied whereas nobody knows how many people's relationships began as affairs. The stigma, the secrecy prevents lots of people from ever admitting their relationship began as an affair. There's no way to get an honest stat, even when it's anonymous.

 

I don't deny that most affairs don't work out. I just think that it is higher than what is stated here on LS, based solely on my experience. No more, no less.

 

But... I do understand the point you are trying to make. And lots of OW do end up broken hearted. That's the hardest, saddest part. Lots of BS's end up broken hearted too, and it's equally as sad.

 

I wasn't trying to compare the admission stats to affair stats in terms of how the information is gathered and what it means, the point of the analogy was that the stats gave me an awareness of how likely or not one is to get in and helped me to make decisions with that in mind even though the stats did not have any bearing on what happened for me. The actual numerical figure for the school stats may change but what is constant is that in general there will ALWAYS be more rejections than acceptances, regardless of if it changes from 9 to 19%.

 

Even if the number is greater than what is on LS it most likely won't be by a landslide. People get hung up on a figure and whether it is more or less but I don't see the point, as with affairs the constant seems to be, from both what plays out yearly and over the years on LS and what studies they have done, and anecdotal evidence that most don't end up married or together in the open, whatever that figure is, it's still not a majority figure.I think that's what it boils down to and OW/OM should be told that the odds are against them but you're individuals and you can hedge your bet and see how it works in the end.

 

Hope that makes sense.

[Got it]

I wasn't trying to compare the admission stats to affair stats in terms of how the information is gathered and what it means, the point of the analogy was that the stats gave me an awareness of how likely or not one is to get in and helped me to make decisions with that in mind even though the stats did not have any bearing on what happened for me. The actual numerical figure for the school stats may change but what is constant is that in general there will ALWAYS be more rejections than acceptances, regardless of if it changes from 9 to 19%.

 

Even if the number is greater than what is on LS it most likely won't be by a landslide. People get hung up on a figure and whether it is more or less but I don't see the point, as with affairs the constant seems to be, from both what plays out yearly and over the years on LS and what studies they have done, and anecdotal evidence that most don't end up married or together in the open, whatever that figure is, it's still not a majority figure.I think that's what it boils down to and OW/OM should be told that the odds are against them but you're individuals and you can hedge your bet and see how it works in the end.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Actually not entirely true. As I am sure you are aware, demographics, ethnicity, etc. will play a factor in those percentages for public schools, at least in the US. So I know for my state, being from the zip code that I was, and being female put me in the largest "pool" of candidates. So it would actually be a smaller percentage for me to be accepted than another because of how many females, from my zip code and ethnicity applied to said school. The school I was trying to get into was looking for more males as it had been an all girl school at one point and continued to get their ratio up. SO . . . . males in general had a better chance and then ethnicity that they had less than had an even better bump. So those factors will have an impact than just SAT scores and GPA.

 

So the straight stat doesn't give you a full picture.

[MissBee]

Actually not entirely true. As I am sure you are aware, demographics, ethnicity, etc. will play a factor in those percentages for public schools, at least in the US. So I know for my state, being from the zip code that I was, and being female put me in the largest "pool" of candidates. So it would actually be a smaller percentage for me to be accepted than another because of how many females, from my zip code and ethnicity applied to said school. The school I was trying to get into was looking for more males as it had been an all girl school at one point and continued to get their ratio up. SO . . . . males in general had a better chance and then ethnicity that they had less than had an even better bump. So those factors will have an impact than just SAT scores and GPA.

 

So the straight stat doesn't give you a full picture.

 

To be honest, I'm not sure what you're saying isn't entirely true.

 

I don't wanna get so far off topic, but as you said and as I said in your rant thread on stats, they are in context and you use them based on what you're looking to understand. I wasn't interested in who the 9% consisted of...they have other stats of accepted students by religion, race, gender, ethnicity, nationality etc. The 9% figure though was specifically measuring the amount of people, regardless of gender, race, ethnicity etc who get accepted out of the amount who apply. From there you can break the 9% down into how many are men, women, black, white etc... those will be different numbers, but nevertheless 9% of people get in and 91% don't. That's the overall odds and of course I could have looked at the stats for people with my specific personal demographics...it may be higher or lower than the total number who get in but it's still a subset of the 9%.

 

With affairs you may also probably break it down into socioeconomic status, race, whether you have kids or not etc but if someone tried to do a study of New Yorkers in affairs whose affairs turn open for example, they would still have to come up with a total percent, let's say 12% of all New Yorkers in affairs in this study transitioned into an open R or got married, and from there you can go further to find out of that 12% who had children, who made $75,000 a year or more, who was religious etc. I've never argued that stats give a "full picture", but rather stats measure specific things and you should know what the specific thing is...in the example I gave it was a specific measure of total accepted vs. applies and of nothing else else. If one is looking at it to tell anything but that then you're misinterpreting the figures.Which is part and parcel of the rant or my version of the rant lol...one can misinterpret stats in an overzealous attempt to validate a point or to invalidate it. If you want to use stats to validate or invalidate something it's imperative you know what it's measuring and are using it correctly to validate or refute whatever it is you're discussing.

[Got it]

To be honest, I'm not sure what you're saying isn't entirely true.

 

I don't wanna get so far off topic, but as you said and as I said in your rant thread on stats, they are in context and you use them based on what you're looking to understand. I wasn't interested in who the 9% consisted of...they have other stats of accepted students by religion, race, gender, ethnicity, nationality etc. The 9% figure though was specifically measuring the amount of people, regardless of gender, race, ethnicity etc who get accepted out of the amount who apply. From there you can break the 9% down into how many are men, women, black, white etc... those will be different numbers, but nevertheless 9% of people get in and 91% don't. That's the overall odds and of course I could have looked at the stats for people with my specific personal demographics...it may be higher or lower than the total number who get in but it's still a subset of the 9%.

 

With affairs you may also probably break it down into socioeconomic status, race, whether you have kids or not etc but if someone tried to do a study of New Yorkers in affairs whose affairs turn open for example, they would still have to come up with a total percent, let's say 12% of all New Yorkers in affairs in this study transitioned into an open R or got married, and from there you can go further to find out of that 12% who had children, who made $75,000 a year or more, who was religious etc. I've never argued that stats give a "full picture", but rather stats measure specific things and you should know what the specific thing is...in the example I gave it was a specific measure of total accepted vs. applies and of nothing else else. If one is looking at it to tell anything but that then you're misinterpreting the figures.Which is part and parcel of the rant or my version of the rant lol...one can misinterpret stats in an overzealous attempt to validate a point or to invalidate it. If you want to use stats to validate or invalidate something it's imperative you know what it's measuring and are using it correctly to validate or refute whatever it is you're discussing.

 

What I am saying that I could actually have a higher than 9% chance of getting in if I was in a less popular group or I could have a lower than 9% chance if I am in the more competitive/popular group. So the 9% means little to me specifically but it really doesn't tell me my actual chance without those other factors.

 

So throwing out these unestablished stats on affairs is even more subjective and incorrect. There have been NO large, comprehensive studies done on affairs and then affairs to marriage. There have been none that factor in the decrease of actual marriages but continue to be long term relationships and no qualifiers around what "successful" means.

 

Ridiculous statements of stats based on LS, or quoting the 3% number or any other number means nothing. But people trot them out as if they are facts without any understanding on what that number may actually be based on.

 

Does anyone know where the 3% comes from? The perimeters around that study? The pool of candidates they looked at? It is null and void when you extrapolate it to the general population.

 

There are NO studies that will actually give you a good understanding of affairs to other relationships. They just do not exist. But this is ignored and disregarded.

 

So when people ask for stats and they are given these ridiculous made up numbers they are giving someone a false answer to their question.

 

The stats on school entries are based on objective and quantifiable facts. And even those have nuances listed above.

 

Stats on affairs are light years away from that. They are subjective, intangible, erroneous, and basically fluff.