I can't prevent her trial by fire

[d'Arthez]

Well it is a fairly positive explanation she offered to you Iceisles.

From reading your message, I get the impression she wanted to go to him, to prove that she was stronger than him. It would not have been wise, but now that she is pissed over his lame excuse, she wants to focus on you. Which is good.

 

Try to spend some time with her in the next couple of weeks, and let her take the lead. Let her call you, let her suggest what you are going to do. Not that you necessarily always have to agree with her. She wants to be part of your life in a more than friendship-way.

 

Considering sex, she might be moving very quickly towards you, even before establishing a solid relationship with you. If you have your reservations make them known to her. She will respect you for that. Of course explanations are important. She needs to discover how a caring person thinks. Make her know!

 

Try to find out if the two of you have a solid connection with each other. And establish boundaries for the both of you. For her and for yourself. Don't underestimate the importance of that.

 

Good luck!

[shamen]

Originally posted by iceisles

By the time we got off the phone this morning, she was feeling pretty good about things. I'm glad that I can make her happy, but I'm even happier that she wants to extend our relationship beyond friendship. It's just going to take time for her to heal, but I think us spending time together will expedite the process.

 

As an aside, she was very "adventurous" on the phone, and I do feel that she would have slept with him last night had she gone over. She kept telling me she wanted me and detailed what she wanted to do to me, so obviously she is in a period of heightened sexual interest right now. I don't care that she feels that way about me, because I never have any intention of hurting her like her ex was setting up to do.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa now. I don't know that right now is the time to be falling into bed with this girl. You don't want to become a rebound sex boy toy, do you? Take it slow. She needs to heal from her ex first. How long were they together again?

[miso]

yes i too have mild bi-polar and let me tell you it can make one very playful

[d'Arthez]

Shamen you make a valid point.

 

Sadly bi-polar people don't work that way. Her sexual desire can be extremely high because of the disorder. That makes these people extremely likely to suffer the role of sex-toy. Iceisles knows this.

 

To build a relationship with someone who is bipolar, and withhold sex is senseless. It's probably better to engage, but after of course being open about what to expect from everything. As she suffers from the disorder, but is able to function reasonably well in daily life, she is not the 'if-it-is-masculine-I-must-f*ck-it' person.

[shamen]

Originally posted by d'Arthez

Sadly bi-polar people don't work that way. Her sexual desire can be extremely high because of the disorder. That makes these people extremely likely to suffer the role of sex-toy. Iceisles knows this.

 

To build a relationship with someone who is bipolar, and withhold sex is senseless. It's probably better to engage, but after of course being open about what to expect from everything. As she suffers from the disorder, but is able to function reasonably well in daily life, she is not the 'if-it-is-masculine-I-must-f*ck-it' person.

 

Oh. Things one learns on LS.

[iceisles]

I know this period of liberation is temporary. She will have relapses and want to see him, call him, etc. It will take a lot of time for her to move on. However, I need to use this period of anger towards him to my advantage. Now is the time for me to step up some and carefully pursue her. I know that I can widen the gap between me and him as long as she can't stand his guts. I need to change gears and "sell" myself while this window of opportunity is open. I just need to do it respectfully.

[Hund1976]

Well good luck with your plan, try not to get your hopes up too much incase she flakes out all of a sudden and goes and bangs the ex. I hope you're still keeping your options open in case you run into any other girls with less drama in their lives. Don't put all your eggs in this basket, she sounds like she might drop it on you.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by Hund1976

Well good luck with your plan, try not to get your hopes up too much incase she flakes out all of a sudden and goes and bangs the ex. I hope you're still keeping your options open in case you run into any other girls with less drama in their lives. Don't put all your eggs in this basket, she sounds like she might drop it on you.

 

If she sleeps with him after the heartfelt e-mail I sent her tonight, she's done. I'm used to putting all my eggs into one basket. This fall will hurt just the same as all the others, but I'll live.

[iceisles]

I made one of the most difficult decisions of my life tonight. She said that she needs more time to think about things, and I said that I didn't think we should talk again until she is certain of what direction she wants to head with her romantic life. I just can't keep going on like this. We have gotten so used to talking to each other, and we were both upset over this. But we both decided it was for the best. So I will move on with my life and put another entry into the 'L' column. She just wasn't ready, and I'll have to keep plowing forward.

[nicki]

You know, this could be a good thing. I would bet money she will contact you again in a couple of weeks, or even sooner.

 

I'd agree with her about the time thing. I wouldn't be heavy about it or say anything too emotional. It is what it is.

 

Say something like: "You know. You are right. I only want the best for you, and i need to think about what's good for me, too. Maybe we'll run into each other again sometime when you aren't so confused. Take care of yourself."

 

She will call you again soon. She's hooked on you. That's obvious.

 

So you have time to decide how involved you might want to get when she calls back. But, i'm telling you from experience, she will only go for you if you she's afraid of losing you. So get busy with your life. She will sense it, and clear up her emotional plate pretty quickly.

 

She knows her ex is a loser. She knows you are great. She's also figuring out just how much crap you will take. Only you can answer that....

 

good luck....

[nicki]

and ice, big hug to you....

 

i really don't think this is the end of it from her point of view, but you might be done with it all...it's hard to be in limbo for too long...

 

just be aware and be prepared for her to call you again. at that time, you may decide that you really have moved on...

[iceisles]

Originally posted by nicki

and ice, big hug to you....

 

i really don't think this is the end of it from her point of view, but you might be done with it all...it's hard to be in limbo for too long...

 

just be aware and be prepared for her to call you again. at that time, you may decide that you really have moved on...

 

Thanks for the hug and the support, nicki. I know this won't be the end. She is crazy about me, but she needs time. She really didn't want to stop talking, but I said that it's for the best. I know she will miss me big time because she went crazy when we didn't talk Friday. She IM'd, e-mailed, and called me - including a phone call at work. I don't expect this to last long, but stranger things have happened. I think she suspects her ex is a jerk but needs to see it with her own eyes, which I understand. I'm just surprised she wants to see him at all considering the way he has acted. But it can surely be hard to move past people.

 

I'm gonna miss her so much. I hope this will give her the time she needs to make the right decision for herself. I want to see her happy, and I knew that I wouldn't be happy just being friends while she is indecisive about her future.

[nicki]

You are wise, ice.

 

[iceisles]

Originally posted by nicki

You are wise, ice.

 

 

This evening, maybe. I've screwed up many times. The remnants of prior failures and false hope linger on this site like a morally dejected ghost.

[iceisles]

I did forget to mention that she "doesn't expect anything to come of it" regarding the dealings with her ex. The fact that she said that is a big deal because it signifies some early rationalization. Her making such a statement is an improvement from, "I really hope he'll love me again." If she's as strong as she claims to be, she may be over this guy fairly quickly. The only dated for 3.5 months anyway.

[iceisles]

d'Arthez, if for some reason she does decide to give me a shot (not likely given my history in these situations), how will I know she is completely over her ex? Is this something I just take her word for? Thoughts of past relationships tend to resonate for a long time, even while you are starting something new. I don't want to get involved with someone just to have them say a few weeks/months in that, "I thought I was ready to move on, but I guess I'm not." Any words of advice for this? I personally think she will go back to her ex, but I do want to be prepared for the other scenario. Thanks.

[nicki]

that exact scenario happened to me...read my post about 20 back....

 

anyway, you won't know for a long time. i wouldn't gamble anything i couldn't lose--like my heart--for a year or so...watch out...

 

it can be especially bad because it was only 3.5 months. there are so many unrealized hopes for her with this guy.

 

you will know she is over her ex when she:

 

1. no longer speaks of him, or says things/places remind her of him.

 

2. doesn't have contact with him. if he does call, write, etc, she has no problem telling him that she is with someone else now and is happy...(if you do have a relationship with her, make sure that she isn't talking to him)

 

3. there is no hurt left in her about him. coming across his old pictures and cards has no effect on her.

 

4. she is willing to make future plans with you, and mean them....you feel loved, secure...

 

good luck, either way...

[miso]

iceisles i just have to say, i did do a little bit of skimming somewhere around the centre, from some things you have said i get the impression you are often in this kind of a predicament.

now heres what i think,

you are treating this girl (and maybe others) like she is an idiot, saying things like i will have to sell myself whilst blah blah (cant remember) anyway do you think she has no clue what you are up to. the sad truth is that most people in the world in fact pretty much everyone will not refuse a freebie if they are offered one. you have been totally giving this girl all the support she needs and whilst she is having to work a tiny bit for it it isnt exactly hard labour is it now??

all she has to do is flutter her pretty little eyelashes a bit, look a bit puppy eyed and your heart melts, oh well i'll show her what a kind lovely person i am i mean she is so upset because her bf is treating her bad she must really need someone like me to come along.....well she does need someone like you to come along, thats true, but she aint gonna fall for you mate, she knows your game, only trouble is, you dont know hers

she knows everytime you say thats it i am gona keep away, she knows what you are hoping for, she knows she can keep you in there, she knows she can get you running back

i'm not saying it wasnt genuine when she missed you etc, it was, you see she really does think of you as a really good friend, she really does love you, but that is all she thinks of you as

she is not a bad person so dont be angry with her, i mean at least she genuinely likes you as a friend, what have you been hanging around being oh such a wonderfull friend for

SO MY ADVICE TO YOU IS:

KEEP THIS GIRL AS A FRIEND AND BE A GENUINELY GOOD FRIEND TO HER, GIVE IT A BREAK IF YOU CANT MAKE THAT TRANSITION YET

IN ALL FUTURE ATTEMPTS AT WOOING, BE A CHALLENGE OKAY? WHILST MEN LIKE GIRLS TO BE A CHALLENGE TO GET INTO THE SACK, GIRLS LIKE MEN TO BE A CHALLENGE TO GET EMOTIONALLY

YOU CAN SLEEP WITH THEM ALL YOU LIKE BUT DONT OFFER THEM HUGE AMOUNTS OF EMOTIONAL SUPPORT TOO EASILY

SO KEEP THIS GIRL AS A FRIEND BUT MAKE IT MORE GIVE AN TAKE, WHILST SHE CRYS ON YOUR SHOULDER AND TALKS ABOUT HER PROBLEMS WITH THIS GUY, YOU CAN ASK HER FOR TIPS ON HOW WOMEN REALLY THINK

i am sorry to be so harsh with the truth but it is the equivalent of, hes just not that into you

its best to know and just deal with it

[iceisles]

Though she knew we shouldn't be talking, she e-mailed me this morning to see if I was ok, because I was pretty upset last night. I thought that was pretty sweet. My friends say that my chances with her look good but that I have to allow her time to sort things out in her head. However, I made it very clear to her that I don't want to hang out, date etc., unless she is ready to commit herself to me 100%. As long as her heart is in two places, we shouldn't talk. I like her a lot, but I'm going to start looking elsewhere. I am entering a new phase in my life where I'm looking for someone to be serious and settle down with, and clearly she is a long way from that right now.

[EC]

Though she knew we shouldn't be talking, she e-mailed me this morning to see if I was ok, because I was pretty upset last night. I thought that was pretty sweet. My friends say that my chances with her look good but that I have to allow her time to sort things out in her head. However, I made it very clear to her that I don't want to hang out, date etc., unless she is ready to commit herself to me 100%. As long as her heart is in two places, we shouldn't talk. I like her a lot, but I'm going to start looking elsewhere. I am entering a new phase in my life where I'm looking for someone to be serious and settle down with, and clearly she is a long way from that right now.

 

I am glad who have chosen this. The way I see it if you don't cut contact with her , she will always have you as a comfort zone and be in limbo about her bf and yourself and you will not move on and possibly find whats better for you waiting for her to come around. It would be an endless cycle. I think your doing the right thing.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by EtErNaLlYCoNfUsEd

I am glad who have chosen this. The way I see it if you don't cut contact with her , she will always have you as a comfort zone and be in limbo about her bf and yourself and you will not move on and possibly find whats better for you waiting for her to come around. It would be an endless cycle. I think your doing the right thing.

 

Yeah, I recognized that this endless cycle had to stop. It will also accomplish a couple of other things: 1) Without my influence/distraction, she should be able to make her decision quicker and 2) It makes it obvious that my interests are purely romantic. She did say to me, "I would still like you to be my friend right now" and I responded that I'm not looking for that. It's either going to be romantic or bust.

 

I'm not doing this to move on for myself. It will take me a long while to find someone who matches up to her. I am doing this for her, because it's the right thing to do.

[nicki]

yes, grasshopper, you have learned much....(remember the old 1970's "kung fu" tv show?)

 

you are smart not to waste your time...oh, but just know that she will keep calling, pulling on your heart strings...stay strong and in the background...

 

who knows, she may be back in your life in six months. (after she has gone through her rebound relationship, gone back to her ex, and left for good...)

 

my guy now swears I'm the one for him, and that he's over his ex.

 

if i had known what i know now, i would have passed on him in the first place. the heart ache and doubt are not worth it, in my opinion...

[iceisles]

I basically just want someone who wants me right here and right now. No drama - period. There has to be someone out there who is ready for me. It seems like all I'm ever doing is moving on because people don't have their acts together or because they have so many strings attached to them that it's just not worth it.

[d'Arthez]

The signs you should look out for, before even considering a relationship with her, if she says she is over her ex, are everyday signs.

 

Because she is bi-polar, it is impossible to determine in which mood she is, in 2,3,4, 6 months time.

 

So two very general pointers, to consider:

 

1) Is she able to complete her daily responsibilities satisfactory? If there are no problems, it seems she has the biggest part of the disorder under control.

2) How has her (sexual) behavior been between now and the moment she says she is ready?

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by d'Arthez

Bronzepen, before this starts to become a flame war, which neither of us need, let me explain.

 

For HER her disorder is not a big issue. She does not necessarily perceive that the disorder she suffers from is a big issue. That does not imply that it is no problem for her. You don't need a degree in Psychology to understand that.

 

Nor does it imply that it is a problem for her. We don't know. Don't lump all people with bi-polar together. You don't know this person, I don't know this person, Iceisles knows this person but he is not even sure himself.

 

That's why I tell Iceisles not to bring her bi-polar disorder to the forefront. There is nothing he can do about.

 

Game playing is when you are making excuses that do not exist. Pretend to be unavailable, pretend you are dating other girls when you don't do that. You even spent a post telling Iceisles should play hard to get. Read the expression. PLAY hard to get.

 

Semantics.

 

Wrong. Game playing is when you make sugar coated false promises. Telling someone that you like them and maybe you will go out with them, only to say no in the end, is game playing.

 

Playing hard to get is not game playing. Simply because they share the word "playing" does not equate one with the other.

 

By making himself unavailable and not being there 24/7, IceIsles will show to her that he should not be taken for granted.

 

 

First of all, do something about your language skills. You ARE a good boy. And what is wrong with feminism?

 

Oh please, spare me the crucification because of a typo and who's to say I am a boy?? Maybe or maybe not.

 

What's wrong with feminism? Well there is the right form of feminism and the stupid form.

 

Right form - Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.

 

prejudice form - Blame all men for their problems.

 

When you start to have the us against them mentality then you become a prejudice feminist.

 

 

The expression is 1 dimensional thinking. Not 2 dimensional thinking. Or would you care for a debate on Marcuse?

 

Where is the relevance? I stated you had 2 dimensional thinking because you have a "this way or that way" of thinking. One way is right and one way is wrong.

 

You stating that I have 1 dimensional thinking made no sense, it had a juvenile remark ala high school.

 

Marcus's point seems to be that if societies can learn to use technologies in ways that benefit citizens, instead of restricting them, then the problems of humans will be solved.

 

I don't see the relevance to what we are talking about.

 

The problem is, that there existed a conflict of interest. You can't blame that on her. The issue is now, to make the best of this situation for both Iceisles and the girl involved.

 

 

To back my claim up, in this thread you posted, in post 46 of this thread:

 

 

How can my wording be an extreme distortion of your words, when this is what you factually have suggested? And you want me to believe that I sound flaky?

 

 

Now I see where you got bent all out of shape. You equated my "emotional baggage" statement with her bipolar disorder.

 

You misinterprete my meaning. I was telling IceIsles not to deal with her problems and issues with her ex. Her constantly complaining, whining, crying about him, is an emotional baggage that he should not have to deal with. He wants to date her not hear about her ex.

 

For me, that's emotional baggage.

 

Bi-polar disorder is simply that, a disorder. This is something that she has to live with and there is nothing IceIsles can do about it.

 

You jump to conclusion too easly.