Bronzepen Posted February 25, 2005 Posted February 25, 2005 Originally posted by iceisles That said, I'm glad he is willing to support my futile effort. I would love to show him that there is some method to this madness. I do hope you prove me wrong. I am on your corner.
Author iceisles Posted February 25, 2005 Author Posted February 25, 2005 Originally posted by Bronzepen You are a song writer. Put your words to a song. How's this? Run For The Hills You tell me to hang in there But baby, I don't think I can You may be hurting inside But I won't be your rebound man How can I sit around and wait If you can't make up your mind See, love shouldn't be like this Watching it play out from the sidelines Chorus: I should run for the hills It's being friends that kills Far away from your indecision Things you're too afraid to mention I should just run for the hills End Chorus You say he's not right for you And yet you'll warm up the covers There's no act of passion That can mend a rift between lovers If you give into temptation And satisfy his every demand I won't look down on you But I can never understand Repeat Chorus I won't be on the sidelines long Before you know it, I'll be up and gone There's only so long a friend can sit still Before he should run for the hills Repeat Chorus It's being friends that kills Won't let you take me against my will I'll just run for the hills Yeah, I'll run for the hills [Fade] Copyright, 2005
d'Arthez Posted February 25, 2005 Posted February 25, 2005 Bronzepen: 1) It is a game, and it will backfire. If you want to pretend your life is so full of action, do it from day 1. Not 4 weeks into a friendship. It defies logic. If you believe she can read between the lines, you know how she will read a sudden withdrawal on the part of Iceisles. Read the post of shamen, I believe it was #73. It (from day 1) would have only enhanced her confusion, f*cked her mind, and the only benefit is that you could have a chance to f*ck her herself a bit earlier. With all unresolved issues, so don't bet that the relationship could last more than 2 months. You should consider a career in therapy for girls like her. Suicide therapy that is 2) You base your interactions with members of the opposite gender on basis of the d*ck feeling. If it is not there, why bother? A logical consequence is that you view that female-male friendships cannot be platonic. Finding a relationship is not like a hunt. It may be true that he sought for a romantic relationship, but that is irrelevant to the situation. Compassion seems very low on your list of qualities, as you only accept emotional virigns. 3) A man with compassion does not walk away from a girl like her. It is true that there existed a certain conflict of interest in the original situation. 4) if you would have bothered to read the thread you would have discovered she is bi-polar. If you could be bothered to find out what effects that disorder has on a person suffering from it, you would know why it is highly dangerous for her if people f*ck her mind. Not to say, that she is the emotionally healthiest person at this instant. 5) Of course Iceisles could have "played" it better. Heck everybody makes mistakes. But to say that he played it badly, no way.
Bronzepen Posted February 25, 2005 Posted February 25, 2005 Originally posted by iceisles How's this? Run For The Hills You tell me to hang in there But baby, I don't think I can You may be hurting inside But I won't be your rebound man How can I sit around and wait If you can't make up your mind See, love shouldn't be like this Watching it play out from the sidelines Chorus: I should run for the hills It's being friends that kills Far away from your indecision Things you're too afraid to mention I should just run for the hills End Chorus You say he's not right for you And yet you'll warm up the covers There's no act of passion That can mend a rift between lovers If you give into temptation And satisfy his every demand I won't look down on you But I can never understand Repeat Chorus I won't be on the sidelines long Before you know it, I'll be up and gone There's only so long a friend can sit still Before he should run for the hills Repeat Chorus It's being friends that kills Won't let you take me against my will I'll just run for the hills Yeah, I'll run for the hills [Fade] Copyright, 2005 You certainly have a gift. Lean back and kick your feet up tonight, Ice.
Bronzepen Posted February 25, 2005 Posted February 25, 2005 Originally posted by d'Arthez Bronzepen: 1) It is a game, and it will backfire. If you want to pretend your life is so full of action, do it from day 1. Not 4 weeks into a friendship. It defies logic. If you believe she can read between the lines, you know how she will read a sudden withdrawal on the part of Iceisles. Read the post of shamen, I believe it was #73. It (from day 1) would have only enhanced her confusion, f*cked her mind, and the only benefit is that you could have a chance to f*ck her herself a bit earlier. With all unresolved issues, so don't bet that the relationship could last more than 2 months. You should consider a career in therapy for girls like her. Suicide therapy that is Oh dear, I sense a personal issue with you. Your not really helping Iceisles out but more like dealing with your issues through him. Courting, defies all logic. If it made sense then everyone in any situation will be with the person that they want. If her bipolar disorder is a big issue for her and it effects her life then she should be getting counseling and be on meds. How Iceisles, me, you or anyone for that matter, treat her is irrelevant. If Iceisle has to act diffrently or treat her a certain way because of her disorder then the relationship will never last. The first rule in any relationship is to be true to one another. Right now there is no relationship between the girl and Ice. I am not asking Iceisles to treat her diffrently, what I am saying is for him not to be so clingy and let her take him for granted. He has to show her that he is independent and not needy or complacent. 2) You base your interactions with members of the opposite gender on basis of the d*ck feeling. If it is not there, why bother? A logical consequence is that you view that female-male friendships cannot be platonic. Finding a relationship is not like a hunt. It may be true that he sought for a romantic relationship, but that is irrelevant to the situation. Compassion seems very low on your list of qualities, as you only accept emotional virigns. Wrong. If you read my post (88) I said if one has no attraction to the opposite sex then it is up to them if they want to be just friends. Platonic is always an option if attraction is not there. Please don't assume what I accept and don't accept. It's very immature of you. You have a very exreme thought pattern, 2 dimensional thinking. It's not about compassion or preferential treatment. Ask anyone with a disability, the last thing they want is compassion, special treatment or people to feel sorry for them. It's about whether it's worth dealing with the person or not. Is the person with the disorder worth dating? It's not about dealing with the disorder but dealing with the person. Are you two compatible? Is there a click? If the person is stringing you along, you have to ask yoursefl, is it worth it? 3) A man with compassion does not walk away from a girl like her. It is true that there existed a certain conflict of interest in the original situation. Why? Iceisles does not have a degree in psychology nor is he qualified or obligated to do anything. Him staying with her as a friend, knowing full well that he has feelings for her, will only make him feel sad and depressed. If she finally says no, then what? Should he stay with her till the end because he has compassion? What's the diffrence if he ends it now or later? 4) if you would have bothered to read the thread you would have discovered she is bi-polar. If you could be bothered to find out what effects that disorder has on a person suffering from it, you would know why it is highly dangerous for her if people f*ck her mind. Not to say, that she is the emotionally healthiest person at this instant. That's the point. She is not the healthiest person at this instant and it's not because of Iceisles but because of her ex. What Iceisles has become to her is a confidant. Her personal therapist. Since he is ALWAYS there when she needs him, she has grown accustomed to him but any feelings of attraction for him have left. He is now a friend to talk about her problems with. She has and will string him along by leading him on by saying that there is a "possible" future for both them. There isn't. Since Iceisles is not willing to walk away from this then he has to stir the pot. Their daily routines has to stop. I am not telling Ice to ignore her but to show her that he has other things going on in his life and that she is not the center of his universe. 5) Of course Iceisles could have "played" it better. Heck everybody makes mistakes. But to say that he played it badly, no way. Yes that is why they put the rubber at the end of the pencil. Yes he played it badly. He is now stuck in friend mode with a girl that he wanted as a girlfriend.
Author iceisles Posted February 25, 2005 Author Posted February 25, 2005 Originally posted by Bronzepen He is now stuck in friend mode with a girl that he wanted as a girlfriend. That's not quite true yet. I still can bust out of the friend mode pretty easily if I play my cards right. She still sees a lot of potential in me from a romantic perspective.
Bronzepen Posted February 25, 2005 Posted February 25, 2005 Originally posted by iceisles That's not quite true yet. I still can bust out of the friend mode pretty easily if I play my cards right. She still sees a lot of potential in me from a romantic perspective. Well, that is the whole reason behind stirring up the pot.
Author iceisles Posted February 25, 2005 Author Posted February 25, 2005 Originally posted by Bronzepen Well, that is the whole reason behind stirring up the pot. You bet. I just need a bigger wooden spoon to do it.
d'Arthez Posted February 25, 2005 Posted February 25, 2005 Originally posted by Bronzepen If her bipolar disorder is a big issue for her and it effects her life then she should be getting counseling and be on meds. How Iceisles, me, you or anyone for that matter, treat her is irrelevant. If Iceisle has to act diffrently or treat her a certain way because of her disorder then the relationship will never last. Most people who suffer the disorder consider their disorder no big deal. For a lot of people around them it is. How often do you hear a paranoid person complain that he is paranoid? For Iceisles the disorder is not a dealbreaker in itself. People with this disorder are able to sustain quite healthy realtionships. It will take a few adjustments though.And there are even some benefits over normal relationships so to speak. The first rule in any relationship is to be true to one another. Right now there is no relationship between the girl and Ice. Hence your advocacy of game-playing. Wrong. If you read my post (88) I said if one has no attraction to the opposite sex then it is up to them if they want to be just friends. Platonic is always an option if attraction is not there. D*ck logic. If she does not turn you on, she is suitable for a potential platonic relationship. Attractiveness or lack thereof is not the decider for that. But I accept we can have different views on that point. Please don't assume what I accept and don't accept. It's very immature of you. You have a very exreme thought pattern, 2 dimensional thinking. That is at least 1 dimension more than you. It's not about compassion or preferential treatment. Ask anyone with a disability, the last thing they want is compassion, special treatment or people to feel sorry for them. You would not ask somebody who is in a wheelchair to take the stairs. You would not ask someone who is blind to cross the streets in the middle of L.A. with traffic rampant. That's not preferential treatment you would offer, but extreme inconsiderateness. It's about whether it's worth dealing with the person or not. Is the person with the disorder worth dating? It's not about dealing with the disorder but dealing with the person. Are you two compatible? Is there a click? If the person is stringing you along, you have to ask yoursefl, is it worth it? Iceisles feels that it is worth it. It is the basic premise of this whole thread. Should he stay with her till the end because he has compassion? What's the diffrence if he ends it now or later? That is the whole problem. His agenda was impure. So it is now about making the best of this situation. For her and for him, and f*cking her mind as you suggest, does not improve her situation. She is not the healthiest person at this instant and it's not because of Iceisles but because of her ex. What Iceisles has become to her is a confidant. Her personal therapist. Since he is ALWAYS there when she needs him, she has grown accustomed to him but any feelings of attraction for him have left. He is now a friend to talk about her problems with. She has and will string him along by leading him on by saying that there is a "possible" future for both them. There isn't. Which proves your ignorance again. The main problem she has is her disorder. Because of her disorder she runs a high risk of being emotionally and even physically screwed over. Royally. Why do you think the ex became an ex BP? Even bi-polar people have their limits. That she was just a human sex-toy does not help her. Iceisles has done a good job trying to make her realize that. He deserves a lot of credit for that. She must overcome her ex, before anything else. You feel there is no possible future for them because he should only consider emotional virgins. Yes he played it badly. He is now stuck in friend mode with a girl that he wanted as a girlfriend. He is not stuck yet, and he did not play it badly. He is in overtime of the tenth inning. First man at the plate top of the 10th.
Author iceisles Posted February 25, 2005 Author Posted February 25, 2005 She left me an IM saying that she didn't go tonight. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean she thought better of it. It could mean that she wasn't up for it today, or maybe he had other plans.
d'Arthez Posted February 25, 2005 Posted February 25, 2005 Probably the next time she wants to talk to you she wants to give an explanation on that point. If she does not give an explanation, she has not moved on.
Author iceisles Posted February 25, 2005 Author Posted February 25, 2005 Originally posted by d'Arthez Probably the next time she wants to talk to you she wants to give an explanation on that point. If she does not give an explanation, she has not moved on. It will be highly improbable that she has just moved on. She seemed pretty confident last night of going. So she either she took my advice to heart or he cancelled the plans. My vote's with the latter.
Bronzepen Posted February 25, 2005 Posted February 25, 2005 Originally posted by d'Arthez Most people who suffer the disorder consider their disorder no big deal. For a lot of people around them it is. How often do you hear a paranoid person complain that he is paranoid? For Iceisles the disorder is not a dealbreaker in itself. People with this disorder are able to sustain quite healthy realtionships. It will take a few adjustments though.And there are even some benefits over normal relationships so to speak. Where is this coming from? Why do you bring the bi-polar disorder to the forefront? Her disorder shouldn't be an issue but she should also not get special treatment. I am telling Ice to ignore this aspect of her. Your jump to conclusion is really hurting your credibility. Hence your advocacy of game-playing. I never said game-playing your extrapolating. If you consider Iceisle being independent and keeping busying to game playing then treating her with kid gloves by being compassionate is also game playing by your own definition. D*ck logic. If she does not turn you on, she is suitable for a potential platonic relationship. Attractiveness or lack thereof is not the decider for that. But I accept we can have different views on that point. Don't you mean D*ck and P*ssy logic? It can go both ways. Your starting to sound like a feminist. So you think it's healthy for an individual to be friends with someone they have an attraction to, knowing that there is no possibility of nothing developing further? That is at least 1 dimension more than you. If you even know what 2 dimensional thinking means then you would not have made your juvenile remark.. You would not ask somebody who is in a wheelchair to take the stairs. You would not ask someone who is blind to cross the streets in the middle of L.A. with traffic rampant. That's not preferential treatment you would offer, but extreme inconsiderateness. Your statement makes no sense. Please lookup the meaning of preferential treatment. Iceisles feels that it is worth it. It is the basic premise of this whole thread. Hence, me willing to help him out however futile I think it is. That is the whole problem. His agenda was impure. So it is now about making the best of this situation. For her and for him, and f*cking her mind as you suggest, does not improve her situation. That is not the problem. His agenda was that he wanted a girlfriend. She wants a friend right now. He doesn't want to be friends now and is not willing to wait but he is willing to keep trying to win her over and have her be his girlfriend now. That is the problem. Big mess. Showing her that he has a life is not a game nor is he f*cking with her mind. Your taking this personally. Which proves your ignorance again. The main problem she has is her disorder. Because of her disorder she runs a high risk of being emotionally and even physically screwed over. Royally. Why do you think the ex became an ex BP? Even bi-polar people have their limits. That she was just a human sex-toy does not help her. Iceisles has done a good job trying to make her realize that. He deserves a lot of credit for that. She must overcome her ex, before anything else. Proves my ignorance? What are you talking about. Your not making any sense. In your first paragraph of this post you say "Most people who suffer the disorder consider their disorder no big deal." Now your saying that for her it is her main problem. For someone you don't know you sure know a lot about her. You extrapolate too much. Iceisle has done a good job of being a friend. Problem is that he wants to be more then friends. If she needs to overcome her ex then she has to do it on her own. There is nothing that Iceisles can do. That's why he should step back. Let her come to him when she is over her ex and ready to date. You feel there is no possible future for them because he should only consider emotional virgins. More extreme thinking and off the mark. Your starting to sound flaky. He is not stuck yet, and he did not play it badly. He is in overtime of the tenth inning. First man at the plate top of the 10th. You mean, extra innings not overtime. This game was over before it started. Iceisles is the only fan in the stand and everyone else has gone home. Sorry Iceisles, don't mean to be mean, just being realistic. But like I said, there are possiblities. So I hope you prove me wrong.
Bronzepen Posted February 25, 2005 Posted February 25, 2005 Originally posted by iceisles She left me an IM saying that she didn't go tonight. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean she thought better of it. It could mean that she wasn't up for it today, or maybe he had other plans. Or maybe she thought about you and said, damn he is starting to pull away. Maybe I should rethink this. Who knows. bottom line don't think about why she did what she did. You will be going in circles all night trying to figure out the if's.
Author iceisles Posted February 25, 2005 Author Posted February 25, 2005 Originally posted by Bronzepen Or maybe she thought about you and said, damn he is starting to pull away. Maybe I should rethink this. Who knows. bottom line don't think about why she did what she did. You will be going in circles all night trying to figure out the if's. I won't. I want her to think I'm pulling away. People show their true colors when they are fighting for you. And I do think this girl will fight.
Bronzepen Posted February 25, 2005 Posted February 25, 2005 Originally posted by iceisles I won't. I want her to think I'm pulling away. People show their true colors when they are fighting for you. And I do think this girl will fight. That's the spirit. Not only are you helping her but your helping yourself now. Good for you Ice.
d'Arthez Posted February 25, 2005 Posted February 25, 2005 Bronzepen, before this starts to become a flame war, which neither of us need, let me explain. For HER her disorder is not a big issue. She does not necessarily perceive that the disorder she suffers from is a big issue. That does not imply that it is no problem for her. You don't need a degree in Psychology to understand that. Game playing is when you are making excuses that do not exist. Pretend to be unavailable, pretend you are dating other girls when you don't do that. You even spent a post telling Iceisles should play hard to get. Read the expression. PLAY hard to get. YOUR starting to sound like a feminist. First of all, do something about your language skills. You ARE a good boy. And what is wrong with feminism? If you even know what 2 dimensional thinking means then you would not have made your juvenile remark.. The expression is 1 dimensional thinking. Not 2 dimensional thinking. Or would you care for a debate on Marcuse? The problem is, that there existed a conflict of interest. You can't blame that on her. The issue is now, to make the best of this situation for both Iceisles and the girl involved. You feel there is no possible future for them because he should only consider emotional virgins. To back my claim up, in this thread you posted, in post 46 of this thread: Get out of that highschool drama. Look for women that have no emotional baggage. This is nothing diffrent then what I have said to you in the past. How can my wording be an extreme distortion of your words, when this is what you factually have suggested? And you want me to believe that I sound flaky?
Author iceisles Posted February 25, 2005 Author Posted February 25, 2005 Now she just left a message on my machine. She sounded very sad, telling me she misses talking to me but hopes that I'm having a good time because I really deserve it. Apparently she decided not to go for whatever reason and is just hanging out with a friend at home. She asked me to give her a call whenever I get in, no matter how late. She sounded so sad. She said, "I bet you're real proud of me. I don't know if I'm proud of myself." It sounds like she gave some serious thought to this and I AM really proud of her. Bronze, I know you think I'm crazy sometimes, and understandably so. But this girl is the real deal. Should I call her back later tonight?
moo Posted February 25, 2005 Posted February 25, 2005 i am really curious now to see if you actually end up getting this girl, dont stop posting (something tells me you wont anyway!)
d'Arthez Posted February 25, 2005 Posted February 25, 2005 Call back later this evening / night. She will tell you what happened, and what motivated her to skip hanging out with her ex. The time statement implies that she finds it very important that you know. Possibly even that she does not want to reconcile with her ex. It definetely does sound like it was not her ex who canceled the plans .
Author iceisles Posted February 25, 2005 Author Posted February 25, 2005 Originally posted by d'Arthez Call back later this evening / night. She will tell you what happened, and what motivated her to skip hanging out with her ex. The time statement implies that she finds it very important that you know. Possibly even that she does not want to reconcile with her ex. It definetely does sound like it was not her ex who canceled the plans . Thanks for the advice. I will definitely call back later. Even if she had second thoughts, that's an improvement from where she was a few days ago.
d'Arthez Posted February 26, 2005 Posted February 26, 2005 Miso, why do you think I am married, or even attached? I am not, just a single guy. Iceisles: yes, it seems a good improvement to your situation. Be consistent in your behavior. If she is not cured of her ex, we, as in everybody who participated in the thread, have already discussed what you should do earlier in the thread. You have expressed what you are going to do in that case to her, so do that.
Author iceisles Posted February 26, 2005 Author Posted February 26, 2005 She didn't go last night because he "just wanted to sleep." She was totally ticked about this and he started a fight (yet again). She told me she doesn't want to talk to him anymore. Of course, she is saying that now, but people often change their mind when cooler heads prevail. Even still, she said that she wants to start the difficult process of moving past him and becoming closer with me. By the time we got off the phone this morning, she was feeling pretty good about things. I'm glad that I can make her happy, but I'm even happier that she wants to extend our relationship beyond friendship. It's just going to take time for her to heal, but I think us spending time together will expedite the process. As an aside, she was very "adventurous" on the phone, and I do feel that she would have slept with him last night had she gone over. She kept telling me she wanted me and detailed what she wanted to do to me, so obviously she is in a period of heightened sexual interest right now. I don't care that she feels that way about me, because I never have any intention of hurting her like her ex was setting up to do.
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