I can't prevent her trial by fire

[d'Arthez]

I can't believe I forgot this, but he recently told her, "I love you, but I'm happier being single." What kind of guy says that crap?

 

Pick any of the following: 1) Narcissist 2) egotistical guy 3) loser 4) mind ****er who loved her benefits.

 

Of course, it is not about what the guy is, but about how she perceives the guy.

[iceisles]

I'm not saying she should pick me, but she's got to come to her senses at some point and ditch this guy. She is remembering how sweet/nice he was the first month they started dating, and I told her that was the honeymoon phase. People's true colors usually come out after a month or two. Nobody can keep an act up forever. I am trying to run my "A-game" out there every time I talk to her to make this an easy decision for her. But ultimately, it is her decision.

[d'Arthez]

I'm not saying she should pick me, but she's got to come to her senses at some point and ditch this guy. She is remembering how sweet/nice he was the first month they started dating, and I told her that was the honeymoon phase. People's true colors usually come out after a month or two. Nobody can keep an act up forever. I am trying to run my "A-game" out there every time I talk to her to make this an easy decision for her. But ultimately, it is her decision.

 

We understand you only want the best for her. Right now, it may look (and judging by her words) when you'd find yourself in a relationship with her.

 

Does she really have very limited relationship / dating experience. Not only first-hand, but also second hand? That may make it harder for her, to see the fact that she might have been used by her ex boyfriend. Also consider her family background. But not only to see the fact she might have been used, but also to accept the fact that she may have been used.

 

Keep up your game. You seem to be winning her over.

[iceisles]

Poor d'Arthez is carrying this thread. Girls, do you have any perspective on this? Do you think she has agreed to hang out with the ex to see if he has changed at all?

[iceisles]

Well, last night marked two straight weeks of talking every night on the phone. I am thinking of totally disappearing today. No daily e-mail, no nightly phone call. I'll just put up an away message on AIM that says "Out for the night" and leave it at that. Do you think it would be good to do this? I don't want her to think that I will always be there for her - at least while we are only friends. I do want her to wonder if I'm perhaps out on a date with someone. In fact, I put up an "Out to dinner" message a few nights ago and she asked who I went with. When I said it was a friend from work, she asked if it was a guy or a girl. When I answered the latter, she asked things like, "Is anything there between you two?"

 

Aside from appearing like I have a life outside of her, I am also doing this out of frustration. I know she can't help it, but she keeps clinging to hope with this idiot while I am willing to do anything to be with her. I do want to send a message that I am a limited time offer, and while I am not going to rush her decision-making process, I will not be sitting around forever as a confidant. At some point, she's going to have decide on either him or me. Until then, do you all agree that I should make myself less available?

[iceisles]

d'Arthez, you can continue offering your advice. I didn't mean to dissuade you from offering your thoughts, as I greatly appreciate them. I was just disappointed that nobody else was chiming in with their opinions.

[d'Arthez]

Concerning the disappearing act, I don't think it is a good idea. Sure it is important to let her know that you have a life outside of her. But as you have a lot of things to do during the day, she already knows that. You could also tell her that during lunchbreak you spoke to X, Y and Z. Or think about things you read, see et cetera. Just what is normally a part of your life.

Emotions and feelings can easily flare up with a bi-polar person.

 

Don't confuse her now, at the moment she needs you the most. In what mood is she today? Give her the time to prove that she wants to move on. At least until she meets her ex on Friday.

Be available on Friday, to gauge her mood, and inspire her. She might not feel confident about her own mood.

I have the impression, that she wants to move on, and it is not made easier by the fact that her ex is a b*stard.

 

And concerning the limited time offer. I know what you mean, and it is healthy that you want to make that point to her. It might be better however to talk as open as possible with her about that.

 

Ask her if she does see a future for the two of you if she can get her ex out of her system.

If she does not, you have your answer, and if she does, you can build further from that point. Feed her an attractive carrot, so to speak.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by d'Arthez

Feed her an attractive carrot, so to speak.

 

She can have my carrot anytime. Lol. This is really tough. She has told me she likes me a lot but has repeatedly said "I don't know" when it comes to a relationship. She thinks he is a jerk but can't cut ties with him. She likes me but is unsure if she wants to move forward with that. Part of me wants to help and inspire her, and part of me just wants her to sort out things in her head and then let me know what she decides. I don't mind talking to her every night for 90+ mins, but this has to be going somewhere. If not, I could invest that time in someone that is ready to be with me right now.

 

I understand you don't agree about me disappearing for a day, but if you read a lot of the threads on here, there is often a big emphasis on making oneself less available. If she knows that I will always be there for her every night at the same time, she will become heavily reliant on me as a friend, and I risk being trapped in the dreaded "friends zone." I am walking a very fine line here, because I am trying to subtly remind her that I want to be with her while reinforcing that I do want to help with her ex. Clearly this is a conflict of interest.

 

I know she likes me a lot, and I am crazy about her. And though a girl like this is a long time coming for me, I will pack my bags and jet if she goes back to him. I really don't want to be in the middle of this mess but am sticking around for what could potentially be a sizeable payoff.

[d'Arthez]

S*xual pun was not intended, lol.

 

I don't mind if you do disappear, but chose the moment carefully. Right now, there will be a build up to Friday, when she goes to her ex.

 

I know there exists an enormous conflict of interest. You want to be in a relationship with her, and help her with regards to the ex.

 

But also think of this:

If you don't take her, someone else will. If that person find out she is bi-polar and on a high, you will feel sorry for her. She will be treated the same as by her ex. Or if she meets another caring guy, you wish you had taken the chance. We can't heal perfectly before we move on in our lifes. If you do want a relationship with her, it would also mean, that you accept she has some bagage at the time. From which she can heal, do not doubt that.

 

Maybe the both of us look at the whole issue from the wrong angle. I mentioned earlier about the paradox which can be true at times. That she needs a relationship to overcome her ex.

 

She thinks he is a jerk but can't cut ties with him.

The recipe for disaster is not that someone is not completely over the ex, but still wants to be with the ex. Then again, of course it is impossible to verify this only on the basis of words, and sometimes even actions don't prove a thing conclusively.

 

I know it is a hard situation on you, but it can't last for much longer anymore. You know that.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by d'Arthez

I know it is a hard situation on you, but it can't last for much longer anymore. You know that.

 

I would think that something has to give very soon. I might even have my answer by Saturday. If she decides that she is willing to work on things with him, I will be telling her that I'm going to try and meet someone else, and while I would still like to be friends, I will be far less available for awhile as I will spending my time talking to/hanging out with other girls (which will be true). She knows I want to be with her, and if she decides not to choose me, I will understand. But that will effectively close the door on the solid foundation we have built together so far.

[d'Arthez]

You could also tell her beforehand. In that way, she is more conciously confronted with the fact that she has to make up her mind. Of course both options have their drawbacks.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by d'Arthez

You could also tell her beforehand. In that way, she is more conciously confronted with the fact that she has to make up her mind. Of course both options have their drawbacks.

 

I haven't come out and said this, but it has been heavily implied. I don't want to come out and say it directly for fear of putting additional pressure on her. I will wait and see what unfolds Friday and then restate my position if need be. I appear to be winning her over, I think, but she could be saying all those things for fear of losing her emotional support. And I don't want to be just a shoulder to cry on.

[emopunk]

Sorry it took me so long to get to this thread, Ice. Looks like d'Arthez has pretty much covered all the bases here.

 

You're right. You are walking a very fine line... and I know all too well how much it sucks. Though you do have the right idea about packing up and moving on if it doesn't work. If you don't, you will become the confidante that she confides in about everything[/i/ in their relationship... and I do mean everything.

 

Movies on a Friday night with only ex at his place means one thing... Nookie. And kudos to you for your decision about what to tell her if she decides to work things out with... him...

[d'Arthez]

I haven't come out and said this, but it has been heavily implied. I don't know what to come out and say it directly for fear of putting additional pressure on here. I will wait and see what unfolds Friday and then restate my position if need be. I appear to be winning her over, I think, but she could be saying all those things for fear of losing her emotional support. And I don't want to be just a shoulder to cry on.

 

If you feel it's about her fear of losing her emotional support, but you can't expect that the behavior of the perfect gentleman necessarily wins her over.

 

A bi-polar person (in elated mood) always feels in control, but usually is not. Psychology 101 does not apply to people who suffer from this disorder.

You can be upfront about your intentions, with her though. In that way she can choose very conciously what she does allow to happen, and she can conciously choose between you and her ex-bf. She might need that pressure, to draw herself from the situation.

[iceisles]

I'm going to e-mail her and basically say that. I will need to know if she wants to work on things with him so I know what I need to do. This will also protect me from being the fallback guy. To me, this is like a contract negotiation - you make a clear offer and then wait to see if it's accepted or not. She appreciates my cander, so why should I stop now? Maybe me stating my position BEFORE she goes over there tomorrow may be enough to prevent her from possibly having sex with him.

[d'Arthez]

DON'T DO THAT BY EMAIL. If you can, try at least calling her, or tell it face to face. If you misword your email in the slightest you will have screwed up.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by d'Arthez

DON'T DO THAT BY EMAIL. If you can, try at least calling her, or tell it face to face. If you misword your email in the slightest you will have screwed up.

 

I can't see her face to face - she lives 2 hours away. I can tell her this on the phone, I suppose. You do think I should say this today though, right?

[d'Arthez]

Yes, Telephone is better than email. Unless you are a master in psychology, who exactly knows what goes on in her mind, it is better that you allow yourself a chance to clarify your position, in case she does not understand what you are trying to accomplish.

 

Today is much better than tomorrow. Don't drop it as a bomb, but try to gauge her mood first. It's very important, to know that she is thinking rationally. And don't forget that in an elated mood, she might think herself stronger than she is.

 

Furthermore, assure her that if she is not confident about tomorrow, when the time is there when she should leave to go over to her ex's place, allow her to not go. She has to make that decision herself, but it does not mean, because she agreed to, there is no way she could cancel this "hanging out." Remind her of that, if necessary.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by d'Arthez

Yes, Telephone is better than email. Unless you are a master in psychology, who exactly knows what goes on in her mind, it is better that you allow yourself a chance to clarify your position, in case she does not understand what you are trying to accomplish.

 

Today is much better than tomorrow. Don't drop it as a bomb, but try to gauge her mood first. It's very important, to know that she is thinking rationally. And don't forget that in an elated mood, she might think herself stronger than she is.

 

Furthermore, assure her that if she is not confident about tomorrow, when the time is there when she should leave to go over to her ex's place, allow her to not go. She has to make that decision herself, but it does not mean, because she agreed to, there is no way she could cancel this "hanging out." Remind her of that, if necessary.

 

I did that last night. I told her to only go over if she has a clear head and is thinking logically. I strongly recommended rescheduling if she feels confused or is unable to contain her emotions. I expressed my serious concern of her becoming even more hurt. I hope she makes the right decision.

 

As far as this conversation, is it better to speak in general terms, such as, "Just let me know if you plan to work on things with him, because I'll have to figure out what I'm going to do.", or should I be more direct with, "Just let me know if you plan to work on things with him because I'll probably start dating other people."? How would you word such a statement to her?

[d'Arthez]

I did that last night. I told her to only go over if she has a clear head and is thinking logically. I strongly recommended rescheduling if she feels confused or is unable to contain her emotions. I expressed my serious concern of her becoming even more hurt. I hope she makes the right decision.

 

As far as this conversation, is it better to speak in general terms, such as, "Just let me know if you plan to work on things with him, because I'll have to figure out what I'm going to do.", or should I be more direct with, "Just let me know if you plan to work on things with him because I'll probably start dating other people."? How would word such a statement to her?

 

It is good that you have talked about that last night. You can only hope she makes the right decision, and there is nothing more you can do. Hopefully she has accepted the consequences of being bi-polar, and is concious of how she might feel tomorrow. For example: "OK, this is not a good situation to be in", or "I am craving for sex now", and she can make the call of not going to her ex.

 

You should be more clear even! Basically you give her this opportunity to get over her ex, and tell her you want to be in a relationship with her (immediately) afterwards, if she is certain she does not want to be with the ex. If not, tell her you will be starting to date other girls.

Dating does not mean you are immediately taken, nor that the chances of the two of you starting a relationship are 0%, but are seriously reduced.

 

Issues cannot disappear in a day. If you find yourself in a relationship with her acknowledge that, and support her to heal herself. Not let her issues unresolved, because then you will be creating a lot of problems.

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by iceisles

She can have my carrot anytime. Lol. This is really tough. She has told me she likes me a lot but has repeatedly said "I don't know" when it comes to a relationship. She thinks he is a jerk but can't cut ties with him. She likes me but is unsure if she wants to move forward with that. Part of me wants to help and inspire her, and part of me just wants her to sort out things in her head and then let me know what she decides. I don't mind talking to her every night for 90+ mins, but this has to be going somewhere. If not, I could invest that time in someone that is ready to be with me right now.

 

I understand you don't agree about me disappearing for a day, but if you read a lot of the threads on here, there is often a big emphasis on making oneself less available. If she knows that I will always be there for her every night at the same time, she will become heavily reliant on me as a friend, and I risk being trapped in the dreaded "friends zone." I am walking a very fine line here, because I am trying to subtly remind her that I want to be with her while reinforcing that I do want to help with her ex. Clearly this is a conflict of interest.

 

I know she likes me a lot, and I am crazy about her. And though a girl like this is a long time coming for me, I will pack my bags and jet if she goes back to him. I really don't want to be in the middle of this mess but am sticking around for what could potentially be a sizeable payoff.

 

Hi Iceisles,

 

Are you a spare tire or a break glass in case of emergency?

 

I am thinking this is not the same woman from your other thread. It seems like your echoing everything you did with your prior woman with this woman.

 

If this woman wanted to date you it would have happend already. The fact that she wants to get back with her ex and pours her problems about him to you via 90 minute conversations everyday does put you in the "friend zone".

 

Is she interested in you? Probably.

 

Des she want to date you? No

 

Is she stringing you along? Yes

 

She is treating you the way she would want to treat her ex but knows she can't, hence her attraction for him.

 

Yes it's weird but that is how attraction for women works.

 

Get out of that highschool drama. Look for women that have no emotional baggage.

 

This is nothing diffrent then what I have said to you in the past.

 

If you feel you know what your doing then good luck.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by Bronzepen

If this woman wanted to date you it would have happened already. The fact that she wants to get back with her ex and pours her problems about him to you via 90 minute conversations everyday does put you in the "friend zone".

 

Here's the thing - we hardly ever talk about her ex. That has just been the last two days, and only for a few minutes out of the 90. Most of the talk is about "us" - things we'd like to together. Like, she was saying "When we go to Myrtle Beach..." and "It'll be fun going to Tennessee." We had talked about this before, and she continues to reference me in her future. She also calls me "honey" and "sweetie" on occasion, so I can't help but think that she REALLY does want to be with me but isn't (at least at this second) strong enough to drop the ex cold-turkey. We are also planning on going to a concert together in a couple of weeks, and she wants to continue to hang out and spend time together.

 

I know this may look the same as the other girl on the surface, Bronze, but the difference here is that this girl is actually into me. The emotional support I'm providing is just a small part of the overall picture. She does think very highly of me, and like I said previously, we would probably be together if that moron wasn't around.

[EC]

She like you yes.

 

She is still in love with her ex, yes

 

She likes you and "would" date you but won't for fear that she won't be available "just in case" her ex "all of a sudden" changes his mind or that he won't look at her the same way if she did date you.

 

Yet since he isn't there for her and you are she talks to you and you listen and make her feel good about herself.

 

Im sorry but the only way she will get over it isby opening her eyes and seeing that he just isn't the one for her.

 

I had a friend like that..It took her 5 years to open her eyes.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by EtErNaLlYCoNfUsEd

She like you yes.

 

She is still in love with her ex, yes

 

She likes you and "would" date you but won't for fear that she won't be available "just in case" her ex "all of a sudden" changes his mind or that he won't look at her the same way if she did date you.

 

Yet since he isn't there for her and you are she talks to you and you listen and make her feel good about herself.

 

Im sorry but the only way she will get over it isby opening her eyes and seeing that he just isn't the one for her.

 

I had a friend like that..It took her 5 years to open her eyes.

 

I think you laid it out real well. I do believe that I can turn her love life around and make her believe in real romance for once. I think she recognizes that, but she'll have to grab me while the offer's on the table. I don't how much sand is in my hourglass, but it surely won't be 5 years worth. I will only wait as long my chances remain strong, and for now, there is plenty of light at the end of tunnel. We'll see if I'm still saying that in a few weeks.

[d'Arthez]

Get out of that highschool drama. Look for women that have no emotional baggage.

Yeah, that would be great advice if the majority of teenagers and 20+ people did not mind screwing other people over. Organize a poll on LS, and we will find out that at least 95% of people on LS have major issues. Some issues are acknowledged, most are not even acknowledged. A fact of life is that 1 in 3 women are sexually assaulted in a life-time. Will they somehow forget the assault? Of course not. Are they all damaged beyond hope? No.

 

I strongly disagree with Bronzepen, since Iceisles is already caught up in the situation. If someone is caught in a game, you can't suddenly drop out of the game, especially in the bottom of the ninth, with a tied score line, all bases covered and no outs.

 

She must overcome her ex. Unless she were unable to feel emotional pain it would be impossible to turn the switch in a matter of a few weeks. That is the reason you have to force the choice. If you don't do that you will be trapped in the friends zone for sure. You make your offer, and that is the best you can do. I am fairly hopeful she turns around, too. If she does not, you must make it clear to her, you will be dating other girls.

 

Either way, it may not win a prize for morally outstanding performance, but then again if you would win that prize, you would never be in a relationship. I know.