ChessPieceFace Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 I know all the 'players guides' tell guys to keep their cards close, never reveal your feelings etc ... maybe that works in general or for girls you just met, works for some guys etc ... I'm just not sure it will in my situation. I've known and liked a girl for over a decade. She was engaged and I had given up, but recently broke off her engagement. I've already sort-of kind-of asked her out previously, or asked her to do things, etc. With never too much coming of it. It either never happened or she didn't want to do things unless it was part of a group. Bad sign, yep. But I think it's possible I just didn't take enough initiative... Anyway I can't realistically see how pussy-footing around will do anything to change our relationship now into more than it is (casual friends.) I feel like there's this constant awkward situation where she knows I like her but am too afraid to really lay it all on the table. I'm thinking of just going for broke and telling her how I feel (not using the word love) and what a great girl I think she is, because I feel like I have a second chance at this girl I almost lost forever, and I don't want to wait another day and lose that chance again. The reason I don't want to just ask her on a date is that right now, I don't feel like I'm in a position to date her or anyone (I want to lose weight and get a better job among other things.) But if I wait until those things happen to tell her / ask her out, I may lose her again, and for good. I don't know what to do. I don't care anymore about being embarrassed about her or others knowing my feelings. I'm tired of hiding from my feelings and suffering in silence. Wondering "what if", missing all your chances and pining away is much worse than being embarrassed. I'd rather put my chips on the table and get it over with. I'd appreciate some advice. Again please remember the specific situation. This isn't some girl I just met, this is a long-term crush that I believe I have true feelings for. Well, thanks.
iiiii Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 She's probably not into you. Sorry. If she was into you, then she would most likely have jumped at the chance when you asked her out before. Sounds like she was just politely blowing you off. However, if you want to be absolutely sure and have no regrets, I'd say seize the day and ask her out now (so long as it's been a decent interval since she's broken off the engagement - you don't want to be the rebound guy). I would not wait until you got a proper job, or lost weight. If she has known you for 10 years, she has already formed an opinion of you. Changing superficial things now will not change her opinion of you. She is either inclined to give you a chance, or she is not. Good luck! 6
Author ChessPieceFace Posted July 5, 2014 Author Posted July 5, 2014 Thanks but I'm not sure I agree with all of your assessments. Not every girl will "jump at the chance" with any guy they might potentially date, there's lots of different situations and things can get complex with mutual friends and 12 years of history between people. This may or may not be a situation where I'd have to break out of the friendzone; I've never been officially friendzoned by her because I've never outright "asked her out", so I don't know. But I just really feel like I need some kind of game changer. To do something to show I'm no longer afraid of putting myself out there, and that I'm not gonna pussy-foot around trying to make small little inroads into spending time with her, while she wonders what I'm up to. I feel like that's just more of the same and will lead nowhere. What the game-changer should be is the question. I'll have to think more about it.
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 ChessPiece, there is NOTHING worse in life than wondering what if. If you hesitate too much, she may get into another relationship. I say lay in on the line and let chips fall where they may. I am not sure about other girls but when I have some interest in a guy, him letting me know that he really likes me only increases my interest. I don't really even consider guys that don't do that. Especially if he is a casual friend I would never make the first move. As for losing weight and all that, sure we can all wait until we are perfect but the reality is, there will always be room for improvement and it's just an excuse not to take chances. Don't let fear hold you back. 8
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 P.S. all the PUA stuff I have read is only good for getting emotionally messed up girls into bed. If you want to build a real relationship, pretty much do the opposite of what they say. 6
Baller25 Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 I've already sort-of kind-of asked her out previously, or asked her to do things, etc. With never too much coming of it. It either never happened or she didn't want to do things unless it was part of a group. Bad sign, yep. But I think it's possible I just didn't take enough initiative... If a women likes you (even a little bit) then she will make it easier for you or at least let you get 1 on 1 time, trust me on this. The fact that she doesn't want to do any 1 on 1 time with you is a very dark red flag. P.S. all the PUA stuff I have read is only good for getting emotionally messed up girls into bed. If you want to build a real relationship, pretty much do the opposite of what they say. At the end of the way almost all of the guys that follow PUA guides just want a girl after failing so many times; it's the wrong decision with right intentions. There are some good parts of PUA such as the importance of self-control, challenge, the element of surprise and highlighting why so many guys fail. 1
d0nnivain Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 It's never OK to tell somebody that you are not dating that you like them. Announcements like that out of left field are rarely welcome & they make the person who says this stuff look creepy, like they have no social boundaries. If she just broke off her engagement she's not ready to date. But if you wait until you make all the self improvements you want, she probably won't be here when you are ready or you will have already friendzoned yourself. Ask for the date sooner rather than later.
mortensorchid Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 It's never a good idea to tell someone that you like them. There is a certain dichotomy out there. Remember: You will miss 100% of the shots that you never take, yet at the same time if you tell the other party that you like them (and I don't care if you are a man or woman in this situation) then you are setting yourself up for a fail. I think that we have been talk / reality showed to death where we are supposed to be upfront and honest with our feelings. Know what that gets you? Not much. If anything you offend people with how you really feel. I've learned to do so as a woman, especially when we are living in this age of bad girlism (ex. Paris Hilton).
irc333 Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 It's never a good idea to tell someone that you like them. There is a certain dichotomy out there. Remember: You will miss 100% of the shots that you never take, yet at the same time if you tell the other party that you like them (and I don't care if you are a man or woman in this situation) then you are setting yourself up for a fail. I think that we have been talk / reality showed to death where we are supposed to be upfront and honest with our feelings. Know what that gets you? Not much. If anything you offend people with how you really feel. I've learned to do so as a woman, especially when we are living in this age of bad girlism (ex. Paris Hilton). In actuality, this is why divorce/break-ups is so prevalent these days. Lack of communication The advice given is contrary to what is attributed to an actual healthy relationship. 1
Author ChessPieceFace Posted July 5, 2014 Author Posted July 5, 2014 The problem is that I've known this girl for 12 years, I've asked her to do a couple things in a sort of wishy-washy "is this actually a date and just going along with mutual friends as a cover?" type of thing, and have already given enough unintended hints that I am interested in her and like her. It's really not going to be a shocker. If I don't say something, I think it looks cowardly at this point. Like even now I'm still afraid to tell her how I feel? I'm not. Also I feel like I need to give a basis for why I would be willing to break through this invisible barrier 12 years in. Us going out could raise a few eyebrows in mutual friends family / we may take a little ribbing for it for a few days/weeks, so I think we need more of a reason than "let's try this" like you would with a stranger. I have other reasons but it's too complicated to get into. I will definitely try to say what I want to say in a way which maintains self-respect etc. I appreciate the input.
JimmyB26 Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 OP, you don't get what you deserve in life, only what you negotiate. Invite her out, but make it for the evening, and just be fun. Have it be a fun-filled opportunity for sex to happen. Just hang out, have fun, and hook up. When you guys are having fun, just invite her back to your place for a glass of champagne. If she won't accept, when you part, you still have to go in for the kiss. If she turns her head or tells you no, then you tell her something like this - it's put your cards on the table time: "I have a great time with you, and I think you're incredible and I'm really attracted to you. I can't just be friends with you. I want to be a lover, not a friend. I'm not interested in that. If you just want to be friends or you don't feel the same way, that's fine, but I can't see you anymore. If you change your mind, get in touch with me." Then you have to be willing to walk away and mean it. No calls, no texts, no contacting her in any way, shape or form. If she reaches out to you, you assume she wants to see you and ask her when she's free and then you make a romantic date for a definite day, time, and place. If she waffles, you do the takeaway and say get in touch when you know your schedule. You attempt to make dates on two separate occasions, and if she won't agree to firm plans, you never ask again. When she gets in touch thereafter, you simply talk for a couple minutes, then say "It was great to hear from you, but I gotta go, keep in touch." She'll either eventually agree to your terms, or stop getting in touch. Either way, you win, because you get her or someone better. She will try to test you to see if you are willing to compromise on the new terms. But she's really just testing your manhood. You cannot buckle. If she agrees to a date but again tries to put you back in friendzone, you repeat your terms and walk away again. I can guarantee that if you adopt that stance, you will have the edge over most of the other guys she will be meeting out there.
todreaminblue Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 You are right you can suffer in silence and never let her know and watch her eventually find someone who isnt you or you can risk the rejection knowing that it would be preferable to not knowing...... i feel when you get to the point where you realize how strong your feelings are and the risk of losing her is not one you can take , it cant be friendship it has to be resolved one way or the other.....its time to step up i turn into a child when it comes to expressing interest in someone, i literally do .....my teeth chatter......that scared......but i do it regardless of my shaking body and it takes another side of me to help me, the side that got told by my grandpa never to wait on telling someone i care for them, i remember his words and i urge myself on, the same side that stands up when others cant...the same side that keeps pushing on regardless of what i have to face.....its pure guts.......and honesty.......and it is scary cant say that it isnt......but....if all anyone can say about you is this guy cares for me and i dont care for him ......is it that bad?......what would be bad is if you never got the chance to say something....anything.....and something happened that you couldnt get to tell her...life happens and sometimes life moves faster than us.......dont let that happen.... never hold back the truth about caring.....the world does it enough ...people will tell you to hold back.....dont because you will have regret fro a very long time...i am telling you ....be brave......and then be brave either answer...i hope it works out for you...its been long enough...just be brave.........deb. 1
Author ChessPieceFace Posted July 5, 2014 Author Posted July 5, 2014 I don't do casual sex, and even if I did, I would never just hook up with this girl. I like her way too much for that. And it would be disrespectful in so many ways - she's the best friend of one of my family members. That's kind of the reason we're at this point. When someone is best friends with one of your friends / family members, they do most of the talking together and you have a hard time getting many words into the conversation. Again, appreciated but I don't think we're playing the same game. 2
todreaminblue Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 I don't do casual sex, and even if I did, I would never just hook up with this girl. I like her way too much for that. And it would be disrespectful in so many ways - she's the best friend of one of my family members. That's kind of the reason we're at this point. When someone is best friends with one of your friends / family members, they do most of the talking together and you have a hard time getting many words into the conversation. Again, appreciated but I don't think we're playing the same game. good on you....casual sex sux any way...smilin....just ask her out on a date....make sure its one on one but somewhere public a favorite place maybe..........deb
JimmyB26 Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) You're putting her on a pedestal and she can sense this. She's just a woman. Women want to show up, look hot, and have the guy lead the interaction to a successful conclusion in the bedroom. Either you realize this, or before you know it, she'll be dating another guy who acts like a man and she'll tell you "it just happened." How'd it just happen? They hung out, had fun, and hooked up. I am not talking about casual sex. I'm talking about making the interaction romantic. If you aren't comfortable having sex the first date, don't. But you need to change the terms of your relationship, and unless you are willing to adopt a take it or leave it attitude and are willing to walk away if you don't get what you want, you'll never get this woman. Edited July 5, 2014 by JimmyB26 1
MoreCoffee Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 This is my life so take it as you will. In my experience, women want to talk AFTER you are already in a relationship. I have never met a gal who wanted to listen to me tell her how much I liked her. They wanted action, for me to step up and SHOW my affection - make a move. I have shot my own own foot at least 5-7 times by initially "talking," about how much I thought, cared etc. Anecdotal at best I know. 2
JimmyB26 Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 You make a move and let the chips fall where they may. The longer you don't and just sit back and gripe about the situation, you only have yourself to blame. It seems however that this is holding you back from living your life. Your primary motivation to lose weight and get a better job should not be any specific woman. It should be your purpose regardless of whether there is any woman in your life. I recently slept with a beautiful young woman who there's always been mutual attraction with since I met her last year. She's currently trying to extricate herself from a sticky situation with her ex. I told her that I wanted to talk to her and what I wanted to talk to her about - only AFTER WE'D SLEPT TOGETHER. I told her bottom line, I'd love to pursue this when she's single. I told her to get in touch and if I'm still single, we can talk at that time. Then I walked. It's been almost four weeks. Have I said a single damn word to her? No. Will I if she doesn't get in touch with me? No. Sooner or later the hamster wheel in her mind will start to run and she's going to realize that she'll never hear from me again unless she says something to me. Since I've said goodbye to her, I've gotten at least eleven different numbers, and they're all from women who want to date me, but I can't date any of them until after the Bar Exam at the end of July. My August is going to be a lot of fun though. So focusing on one woman when you're not even in a relationship and she doesn't view you romantically is not healthy, and it will hold you back from finding someone else. Women need time for their feelings to develop for you. They don't fall in love overnight. They need time to wonder about you and let their feelings grow. This woman knows exactly where she stands with you. If you want any chance with her, you have to shake her off her pedestal and make her wonder where she stands with you. It might work, it might not, but it's your only chance.
Author ChessPieceFace Posted July 5, 2014 Author Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) JB - sounds like player tactics, but I appreciate the logic behind what you're saying. It boils down to the "complicated" stuff it's hard to completely elaborate on. Basically she and I aren't on 100% friends terms right now (maybe 90%+); we are friendly and spent time together even yesterday (in a group) and talked, but a while back she had said some things online I took issue with. I had tried to give her earnest advice about why the things she said weren't OK / that she was better than that, she blew up at me a bit, I responded again in a supportive way and she ignored it. And then for that and also various reasons I unfriended her on facebook and haven't re-friended her. That was a big rift in our friendship for a while and we haven't talked about it, it's just been glossed over / moved on from. Again, we've been friendly more or less since then, I had even asked her to a group activity when she was still engaged (she declined saying she had plans, which she probably did, it was last minute.) I've sort of brushed the whole thing aside / not mentioned it or talked about it even though I really wanted to talk it out. And that plan has worked until now, in terms of us being friendly. But if I just ask her out without either saying anything about the incident OR more generally about how I feel about her / that I do think that she's a great girl, I think she could be like "why... is he asking me out" because of the disagreement we had. And because she's still unfriended on FB. (Yep stupid FB...) The whole reason I bothered giving advice was because I think she's a better person than what she was saying at the time, and I kind of wanted to impress upon her that she was better than that. If you say this is putting her on a pedestal, maybe. But I think if I go back and try to talk about our disagreement it would just lead to a negative place and ruin whatever I'd try to accomplish. So I wanted to get past that by telling her some of the reasons I think she's a great girl, etc. Like why I would be interested in going on a date with her after what transpired. It's unfortunate that this wasn't resolved at an earlier time so that I wouldn't have to deal with it now. I thought about trying to go back and resolve it first, then asking her out another time, but I don't know. Definitely going to send a message tonight, I don't have all of the right words right now so I can't at the moment. So you still have some time to chime in before I do anything. Edited July 5, 2014 by ChessPieceFace
MoreCoffee Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 We need to get more female input because this is some inner sanctum ****.
JimmyB26 Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 It's not player tactics, buddy, it's what works. It may seem cold or unfeeling, but having the life and the type of relationships you want is your birthright. Going into a long explanation is not going to work. At all. Women do not respond to reason and logic. They are emotional beings. It's that simple. If you have a problem with that, complain to the big man upstairs. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing for her to wonder "why...is he asking me out." In fact, the more she's thinking about you when you're not around, the better. Guys think automatically out of sight out of mind, and they fall into the illusion of action. I have to do something to keep her interested in me. But women don't fall in love with us when we're around. It's when we're absent that they do. That's when they have time to think about us. And the more they think about us the more they rationalize to themselves that if they're thinking about us that much, they must really like us. It's a negative feedback loop. Don't get me wrong - I did something because I didn't like the distant reaction I was getting. But I did it intentionally. A woman respects a man who stands up and goes for what he wants and is willing to walk away if he doesn't get it. Even if she doesn't wind up getting in touch, she'll respect the approach in his absence. And even though the woman in my situation may have felt self-assured that she had me at her beck and call that first week, as time goes by and MY ACTIONS ARE CONGRUENT WITH MY WORDS, she will begin to get concerned that I might be gone for good. And that's when the magic happens. The thing is, you can't get upset if you don't get the reaction that you want. You can't control a person out of fear of losing them. You have to love a person in such a way so that they feel free to come and go. You might think I'm being terribly manipulative, but I'd say that no, you are. Hiding behind a false friendship for 12 years when BOTH of you know that you want more than friendship is terribly manipulative. You're essentially being dishonest. I guarantee that she'll at least have respect for you if you simply do the following: 1. Ask her out for a specific day, time, and location in the evening by asking when she's free. Tell her that if anything comes up between now and then to let you know, otherwise you'll meet her there or pick her up or whatever your arrangements will be. No confirming plans on the day of or the day before. If she won't commit, you do the takeaway and tell her to get in touch when she knows her schedule. 2. Let her wonder why you want to see her. 3. No gifts on the date. No flowers or anything. No bribes for sex. You're welcome to pay for the date, but do it because you want to treat her. 4. Just have fun with her. Get her laughing. That's all you have to do. No logical conversations, no advice, just laughter and fun. Lighthearted. Be 90% charming James Bond, 10% treat her like she's your bratty little sister. 5. Go for a kiss at the end of the night or invite her back to your place for a glass of champagne. 6. If she tests or resists, you tell her how you feel just once, what you want, that you don't want to be her friend, and if that's not what she wants, to get in touch when she changes her mind. It's not about being a player. It's about going after what you want. 1
Mo_Do Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 When is it OK to tell a girl you really like her When you know she likes you
JimmyB26 Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 No one knows the future, so I don't want the OP to think it's a lost cause, but you're right, if he refuses help, he's never going to get out of friendzone. Every guy reaches that point when he gets fed up with the way things have always gone and decides to chart a new path at a different time. The hope is that it's sooner rather than later.
guest569 Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 I would just make it clear you are asking her on a date, not just 'out' some place. How important is your friendship, and if she rejects you, will that ruin your friendship? If you are willing to take the risk, do it. If you start dating, then you can tell her that you 'really like her' or however you want to phrase it. But cross that bridge when you come to it. Good luck! 1
JimmyB26 Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 When you can go after what you want and at least ask for the terms of the relationship to reflect your true desire WITHOUT CARING what she thinks or what the consequences might mean to the future of your relationship, then you're on your way. 1
joeLove Posted July 6, 2014 Posted July 6, 2014 There are different ways to tell someone you like them without actually saying the words "I like you". i.e: What exactly do you like about her? Her looks? Her intelligence? her decision making? Her choices of colors? or dress? of shoes? the ways she dances? moves? Do you like something she did recently? (a cake she baked, a meal she cooked, a way she organized a meeting ... etc) ... I hope you get the point ... I think what you really need to work on, is being a little subtile in the way you compliment her. The reaction you get from some of her actions ... How does some of the things she did (or doesn't do ) make you feel? I think you should work on expressing your feelings about those things ... she will then understand the conclusion herself and will let you know. On the other hand you can ask her opinion about the things you are doing. For example, if you trying to lose weight, tell you the concrete steps you are taking to improve yourself and self esteem. Observe her reaction. See how supportive about those things, ... and so on. In other words, try to get her involved in things you are trying to do ... i.e.: if you go our running, invite her to come running with you. Maybe both of you can join a running group. Or maybe you taking some yoga or even dancing class (salsa dancing, tango or some romantic dances where you can have closer contact to her )... invite her to join you in that ... find subtile ways to spend some time with her ... without it being a "Date" ...
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