Do you believe in god?

[jnel921]

I disagree with CD...Affairs are morally wrong. The purpose of religion is to instill moral laws into our personal lives and respect one another.

 

My parents were not practicing anything and left the decision to us as we got older. I experienced different faiths and decided to become catholic. I finished my final sacrament at 23 before I got married. My ExH was catholic so we did the whole pre-Cana thing before we even got married.

 

So when he had his A it was a devastating blow to my faith. I cannot say that I have ever went back to the Catholic Church since.

 

I only beleive now that god is within me. If I summon him he will help. But I will always continue to have faith and do the right things in life.

 

If everyone respected and practiced some kind of faith or moral laws maybe we wouldn't be here.

[HereNorThere]

I disagree with CD...Affairs are morally wrong. The purpose of religion is to instill moral laws into our personal lives and respect one another.

 

My parents were not practicing anything and left the decision to us as we got older. I experienced different faiths and decided to become catholic. I finished my final sacrament at 23 before I got married. My ExH was catholic so we did the whole pre-Cana thing before we even got married.

 

So when he had his A it was a devastating blow to my faith. I cannot say that I have ever went back to the Catholic Church since.

 

I only beleive now that god is within me. If I summon him he will help. But I will always continue to have faith and do the right things in life.

 

If everyone respected and practiced some kind of faith or moral laws maybe we wouldn't be here.

 

Faith in and of itself is not much of a deterrent when it comes to immorality. Faith is a belief in something without empirical/material evidence, not a guarantee of morality. In fact, some would argue that it can actually make it easier to commit a "sin" when you can be forgiven so easily.

 

Still, the grounds of a relationship are a contract between 2 or more people. Those people can be gay, straight, monogamous, swingers, etc. and choose the boundaries they feel comfortable with. Marriage was created by humans and humans get to choose the rules for their marriage. Marriage is not some fundamental law of physics that cannot be changed.

[Chi townD]

Still, the grounds of a relationship are a contract between 2 or more people. Those people can be gay, straight, monogamous, swingers, etc. and choose the boundaries they feel comfortable with. Marriage was created by humans and humans get to choose the rules for their marriage. Marriage is not some fundamental law of physics that cannot be changed.

 

 

Not try to start crap. But, they say that humans are not functionally able or created to be monogamous. That we're supposed to have multiple partners. If this is the case. Then why the hell does it hurt so much to get cheated on. It shouldn't if we are following scientific principals. And yet, we get crushed when it happens.

[tornapart2002]

Despite all the bad that has happened to me in the last year, yes, I believe in God. I believe humans have free will, which He gave them.

 

The sadness of the world, the hurt put on others by people they love does not negate the existence of God.

 

But after I found out about my husband's affair, after a year of dealing with horrible health issues, more than one tragedy in my family and then a miscarriage, I seriously questioned it.

 

This past year has made me question a lot -- yes, God being one of them.

[twosadthings]

I'm a catholic who believes that his creator will hold him accountable but who is also possessed with an infinate capacity to forgive an infinate number of times. I think you're a parent, don't or wouldn't you think this way towards your children?

 

I also believe that everything we say and do has a consequence first in this world and then the next if we aren't repentant. We sure get enough chances to right our wrongs.

 

Stop making what you did so existencial. You were sleezy for selfish reasons. It's not more complicated than that.

 

Fix yourself and your situation.

 

Good luck,

 

Twosadthings

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I believe in God, but my perspective has dramatically changed. I was born into the Lutheran church, my parents then joined a cult who thought they were the one true church and we were dramatically affected (negatively) by that, then back to Methodism, nondenominational, Methodism, etc. And the last one did us in - my entire family. I made mistakes, for sure, but our family was treated so horribly by the pastors - those who were supposed to love us - that I don't believe in THAT kind of God anymore.

 

 

I can't stomach mainstream religion and the hypocrisy that goes with it. Sadly, I was that person and I don't want to be that anymore. My friends who were a-religious were more supportive me and my family than my "religious" ones - they didn't agree with the choices, but they loved us through it and supported us. For that I will be forever grateful.

 

 

Do I believe Jesus existed? Yes I do. But I don't believe in the Jesus that is portrayed by most of mainstream Christianity - I read the red words - I think that's what he's about. I am done with religion and church. I talk to God every day, but I give in different ways in my community now.

 

 

Do I believe my affair had something to do with that? Yes. I tried to go back several times and it wasn't out of guilt or conviction that it kept me away - it was seeing people clearly for what they were and understanding we are all the same and we need to love each other.

 

 

Nope - done with religion.

[drifter777]

I disagree with CD...Affairs are morally wrong. The purpose of religion is to instill moral laws into our personal lives and respect one another.

Morality is derived from character that may or may not have anything to do with religion. You can't honestly think that religion is the only thing that keeps me from stealing or cheating others. It is my character; something that has formed in me since birth and is still being tweaked by my life experiences today. All I learned from being catholic was that I hated religion. I encountered so many phony and hypocritical people that I determined that my own moral compass was stronger and more pure than anything those nun's were trying to shove down my throat. Anyway, a moral person may be a religious zealot, an atheist. or somewhere in between. The religious aspect is a non-factor when it comes to morality.

[HereNorThere]

Not try to start crap. But, they say that humans are not functionally able or created to be monogamous. That we're supposed to have multiple partners. If this is the case. Then why the hell does it hurt so much to get cheated on. It shouldn't if we are following scientific principals. And yet, we get crushed when it happens.

 

 

I think it hurts most be to be deceived, but it doesn't hurt all people that their partner has more than one relationship. It would hurt me, but there are lots of people who do not have that issue. It depends on what kind of relationship you have agreed upon.

 

I think most humans are monogamous, just as most humans are heterosexual, but that doesn't mean we all are.

[compulsivedancer]

Seriously, CD??? I'm sure CM doesn't feel it's ok. If adultery isn't "wrong", why even get married. Why not just engage in a series of meaningless sexual encounters with guys you use, and then move on. I've NEVER understood the idea of open marriage.

 

CM and I are on the same page with this. If a couple consents to sleeping with different people, there's nothing wrong with it. At least not morally speaking.

 

Now there may be pragmatic issues that come up. A couple or part of the couple may not be able to handle it emotionally, it may create social scenarios that are not preferred, etc.

 

What I did that was WRONG was doing something behind H's back and lying about it. Additionally, he was not okay with it on an emorional level and I was willing to do something hurtful to him. In short, I lacked empathy.

 

But sex with someone else in of itself is not wrong; it's simply a hard thing to do without hurting someone else.

[thummper]

 

But sex with someone else in of itself is not wrong; it's simply a hard thing to do without hurting someone else.

 

 

 

But that's kind of the catch, isn't it. Why be in a "committed" relationship, especially a married one, if you're interested in having sex with someone else? And you're damn right about not being able to do this without hurting someone else, especially one who isn't on board with your philosophy of casual and meaningless sex. Guess I'm too old fashioned. I've always believed that married couples should be faithful to each other physically and emotionally. Looks like I'm in the minority view. Sad really.

Edited July 4, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

[drifter777]

CM and I are on the same page with this. If a couple consents to sleeping with different people, there's nothing wrong with it. At least not morally speaking.

 

Now there may be pragmatic issues that come up. A couple or part of the couple may not be able to handle it emotionally, it may create social scenarios that are not preferred, etc.

 

What I did that was WRONG was doing something behind H's back and lying about it. Additionally, he was not okay with it on an emorional level and I was willing to do something hurtful to him. In short, I lacked empathy.

 

But sex with someone else in of itself is not wrong; it's simply a hard thing to do without hurting someone else.

What you did was have sex with douche without your husbands permission or knowledge. But you say it wasn't the sex that was wrong, it was the lie. That it is the "unknown to your spouse" thing that was wrong. From that position it is a pretty short trip to if he never found out, it wasn't wrong. Although difficult, if you can avoid hurting someone else with your infidelity then no harm, no foul.

 

You took a vow NOT to have sex with others while married to this man. The whole process of having sex with douche was wrong. When you are in a committed relationship sex with someone else in of itself is wrong!

[DKT3]

CM and I are on the same page with this. If a couple consents to sleeping with different people, there's nothing wrong with it. At least not morally speaking.

 

Now there may be pragmatic issues that come up. A couple or part of the couple may not be able to handle it emotionally, it may create social scenarios that are not preferred, etc.

 

What I did that was WRONG was doing something behind H's back and lying about it. Additionally, he was not okay with it on an emorional level and I was willing to do something hurtful to him. In short, I lacked empathy.

 

But sex with someone else in of itself is not wrong; it's simply a hard thing to do without hurting someone else.

 

I'm betting that had you had sex with om and confessed right after without the lies he would still be upset.

 

I agree if the couple agrees then its fine, but if not then the sex itself is wrong.

 

Now as a BS I will admitt the sexual element of my wifes affair isn't/wasn't as painful as the emotional and trust element. The fact that she was comfortable enough to share with him what she wouldn't with me.

[thummper]

Vows don't mean a damn thing anymore. At least one of the couple doesn't take them seriously. Only thing that matters is "feelin' good" regardless of how torn up it leaves the other spouse.

[compulsivedancer]

What you did was have sex with douche without your husbands permission or knowledge. But you say it wasn't the sex that was wrong, it was the lie. That it is the "unknown to your spouse" thing that was wrong. From that position it is a pretty short trip to if he never found out, it wasn't wrong. Although difficult, if you can avoid hurting someone else with your infidelity then no harm, no foul.

 

You took a vow NOT to have sex with others while married to this man. The whole process of having sex with douche was wrong. When you are in a committed relationship sex with someone else in of itself is wrong!

 

No, I took a vow that we would work together as a couple in all things, that we would share our mutual existence and help each other through life.

 

As a married couple, we get to decide what our own marriage means to us. But we have to do that as a couple. If I make decisions about our marriage on my own, THAT it the betrayal of our vows. I am choosing his life FOR him, instead of giving him his own right to choose.

 

Doing something harmful to the relationship and not having him find out is still doing something harmful. Our relationship is built on the idea of being open and honest with each other; by betraying his honesty and his trust, I betrayed the marriage.

 

However, if we both agree that we want to try an open marriage, and we do it with good faith and as a couple, that is up to us as a couple. When I took that decision out of his hands, and even before that, when I pressured him to make that decision, THAT is what I was acting on my own and not considering him as my partner in the relationship.

[HermioneG]

I'm an atheist. I live a moral life, and strive not to hurt others. I take great care to make sure that my life is one where people are glad that I am in their lives, and that they know they are loved by me.

 

I don't lie, cheat, steal or harm others.

 

I have never needed religious instruction to do so, though I respect that other people hold religious beliefs.

 

My spouse is the wayward in our relationship. He is also the religious partner, or at least, he used to be.

 

I don't think religion prevents people from hurting others. I think that is an internal instruction. I think some people have reinforcement from religion that lines up with their internal sense of right and wrong. And that is a good thing for them. It isn't a function in my life.

[compulsivedancer]

I'm betting that had you had sex with om and confessed right after without the lies he would still be upset.

 

I agree if the couple agrees then its fine, but if not then the sex itself is wrong.

 

Well, duh. But the thing that makes it wrong is the understanding between the couple that they won't have sex with anyone else. Not the sex itself.

 

Sex with someone else without H's knowledge or permission would, to me, still be a betrayal, because he would be expecting me to be exclusive with him. So unless we had previously agreed otherwise, of course he'd be upset.

 

This is what makes that "undefined" stage at the very beginning of many relationships so confusing. One partner thinks they are exclusive and the other doesn't, and so someone gets upset/hurt/etc.

Edited July 4, 2014 by compulsivedancer

[DKT3]

Well, duh. But the thing that makes it wrong is the understanding between the couple that they won't have sex with anyone else. Not the sex itself.

 

Sex with someone else without H's knowledge or permission would, to me, still be a betrayal, because he would be expecting me to be exclusive with him. So unless we had previously agreed otherwise, of course he'd be upset.

 

This is what makes that "undefined" stage at the very beginning of many relationships so confusing. One partner thinks they are exclusive and the other doesn't, and so someone gets upset/hurt/etc.

 

We are on the same page here, except I do think the sex itself is wrong because it it the betrayal. What makes it not wrong would be his agreement thus taking away the betrayal.

[soccerrprp]

I don't know anymore. That feels scary to put that in writing, for the world to see.

 

I grew up in a Christian household. Have continued to go to church, and about 12 years ago, really recommitted myself.

 

Now I find that I'm questioning everything. Is it because of my A? Am I just trying to justify? My problem is that I've had this moment of thinking, my goodness, the idea of god is just freakin' crazy!! There is some magical being in 'heaven' watching us, judging us, asking us to worship him? Listening to our prayers, even though as an omniscient being, he should know what we're even going to pray about? And he intercedes with some and not others? He created us for what? So that we could be 'tested' on this earth? And if we pass the test we get to live FOREVER?? Really?

 

Sorry...not meaning to be disrespectful. I guess I'm just curious about those who have cheated, and how you reconcile that with your faith.

 

I can truly say I don't have guilt, from a god perspective. I have guilt for hurting my H and family. My AP (or xAP??) is Christian and he has TONS of guilt, though the opposite of mine. He is more guilty for 'sinning' than feeling bad towards is W.

 

Thoughts? Would love opinions here.

 

I believe in a deity, but no evidence seems to suggest that he/she gives a darn!

 

People cannot reconcile their "bad" deeds with their faith, but they can and do ignore the conflict and/or simply don't practice what they preach. But this is nothing new among people of faith.

[Just a Guy]

In a purely abstract way I would say that it is impossible to conceive of this World and in fact the Universe having come into existence without there having been a "Super Intelligence" or a "Creator" to have been the architect of such complex systems and processes as exist and which guide and control everything that goes on in the "World" and "Universe" as we know it. Can you imagine a beautiful flower coming up without there being a Celestial Being behind the fact? Babies being born, the Seasons occurring with regularity and so on and so forth.

 

The fact is that we expect a God or the Almighty to intervene in everything that we do or advise us on our courses of action. The fact is that the Almighty has given us two very important and unique gifts, which he has not given any other animal( Yes we are animals in spite of our conceit and elevated thinking about ourselves)and these are Intellect and Free Will. Having given us these he has set us free to make our own choices and take our own courses of action as we go along ion this life. Our progress of our lives is the result of the choices that we continually make in our lives as we go forward. Some people choose to become athletes and they practice hard and set high standards for themselves, denying themselves pleasure and enjoyment while their peers are out doing that exactly, till they achieve what they want which is a medal/medals in some International event. Their achievements are the result of the choices that they made continually along the way to their success. Similarly if someone chooses to become a drug addict then by making choices along the way which deepen their habit, they end up become human wrecks worthless to everyone including themselves.

 

If one 'chooses' to have an affair it is entirely because they choose to exercise their Free Will to do so. Blaming a God or the Almighty for their choice is flawed. One could blame the Almighty if, like animals, we had no control over our actions but that luxury has been taken away from us. We ARE responsible for what we do and we are answerable to no one but ourselves for this. So I guess the question posed by the OP is irrelevant. As it is Heaven and Hell exist here and now. The consequences of what you do and the anguish or pleasure that they give you are your Hell or Heaven. Morality is some thing which was created by religion. All religions, even the most primitive had a set of codes or moral precepts which were to be followed by their practitioners. It is not morality which makes something right or wrong. It is the consequences our actions have on others that make things right or wrong. If your son or daughter does well at school it will make you, as a parent, happy. If your son or daughter is involved in some escapade which gets them reported or has consequences of a negative nature on others, you will be sad. That becomes your Heaven or Hell.

 

Well I guess I've rampled on for long but the gist of what I had to say must be obvious to most. Hope it makes some sense. Cheers!

[drifter777]

Well, duh. But the thing that makes it wrong is the understanding between the couple that they won't have sex with anyone else. Not the sex itself.

 

Sex with someone else without H's knowledge or permission would, to me, still be a betrayal, because he would be expecting me to be exclusive with him. So unless we had previously agreed otherwise, of course he'd be upset.

 

This is what makes that "undefined" stage at the very beginning of many relationships so confusing. One partner thinks they are exclusive and the other doesn't, and so someone gets upset/hurt/etc.

Your are splitting hairs that can't really be split. First, the context is everything. I assume we are talking about committed couples. If the couple agrees that cheating is wrong and they agree not to do it, the very act of letting him put his penis in your mouth/vagina/butt is in and of itself morally, maybe legally, wrong. Lying to him, betraying his trust - of course these are also morally wrong and complicate the whole mess making recovery so very difficult. But in most countries there are no laws that punish a WS for lying and/or betraying their SO. In this context, its the sex. In my opinion, single or open relationship people are morally free to have sex when they want with whoever they want, but there are many people who would disagree with me. So you see, the context is the defining factor.

 

Putting a gun to someone's head and blowing their brains out is morally wrong to any person of character. The fact that it may violate religious and/or civil law is not what makes it wrong; that is just the determination of what, if any, punishment the killer will receive. Its the murder that was wrong.

[compulsivedancer]

Drifter, I think we are actually agreeing here. If you and your spouse decide it's okay to have sex with someone else, it's okay. I don't think some deity is going to smite the couple, or send them to hell for it.

[2sunny]

Ultimately we will all choose what we believe.

 

I am just truly curious. Of those that are wayward and religious, how does that play out in your heads? What do you do about it, if anything? How do you deal with it?

 

Personally, I believe if something causes harm to me and/or others = I shouldn't do it.

 

My religious faith didn't serve me well - it betrayed me on many levels. I don't believe what I was taught any more.

 

What code I work with now is much more loving and kind.

 

I am responsible for my own actions. This works better than giving money (rewards) to a "church" that causes harm to young kids and expects its' parishioners to be okay with that. I'll never be ok with that - and I'll never give them my money again. That would just be supporting and rewarding bad behavior. That doesn't work for me.

 

My conscience guides me - what does your conscience tell you?

[OverIt75]

Personally, I believe if something causes harm to me and/or others = I shouldn't do it.

 

My religious faith didn't serve me well - it betrayed me on many levels. I don't believe what I was taught any more.

 

What code I work with now is much more loving and kind.

 

I am responsible for my own actions. This works better than giving money (rewards) to a "church" that causes harm to young kids and expects its' parishioners to be okay with that. I'll never be ok with that - and I'll never give them my money again. That would just be supporting and rewarding bad behavior. That doesn't work for me.

 

My conscience guides me - what does your conscience tell you?

 

My H and I have actually discussed this. His opinion is that if it takes a god and the promise of eternal life in heaven to get us 'do right', then something is wrong. In that way, he has more respect for those who don't believe (and of course do the right thing anyway).

 

What does my conscience tell me? That I have been living wrong.

[umirano]

Not really going to get into this here. But, I believe that there has to be more to this life. Scientifically we can prove the possibility of God, And there's just too many things we just don't understand. So, why couldn't there be a God?

God of the gaps. Oh, we don't understand this? God did it then.

 

 

If we had a time machine and went back 3000 years to the Parthenon where greek scholars gathered at it's libraries and we had a forum with them and we told them "That there are particles found in all matter; living and non-living, even in the atmosphere and they're called atoms. Now, you can't see them. But, trust me they're there. And one day, we will be able to harness one of these atoms (that we can't see) and we'll even go a step further and we will split one of these atoms. You'll know when we succeeded in splitting it because it will cause an explosion beyond anything you can comprehend. So, basically, causing an explosion out of mid-air."

 

 

We would be laughed out of those libraries; yet, that's EXACTLY what we did thousands of years in the future in the form of the atom bomb. So, we just don't know.

Well, if we had a time machine, we could take a particle accelerator and an electron microscope back to Athens and show them why particle physics is true. No one can do that with god. That's why it's correct to not believe in a god. We also don't believe in superman (as there's no evidence for his existence).

[2sunny]

What if god was positive energy and the devil was negative energy?

 

My attempt to minimize negative energy and grow positive energy bigger also works for me...