Do you believe in god?

[OverIt75]

I don't know anymore. That feels scary to put that in writing, for the world to see.

 

I grew up in a Christian household. Have continued to go to church, and about 12 years ago, really recommitted myself.

 

Now I find that I'm questioning everything. Is it because of my A? Am I just trying to justify? My problem is that I've had this moment of thinking, my goodness, the idea of god is just freakin' crazy!! There is some magical being in 'heaven' watching us, judging us, asking us to worship him? Listening to our prayers, even though as an omniscient being, he should know what we're even going to pray about? And he intercedes with some and not others? He created us for what? So that we could be 'tested' on this earth? And if we pass the test we get to live FOREVER?? Really?

 

Sorry...not meaning to be disrespectful. I guess I'm just curious about those who have cheated, and how you reconcile that with your faith.

 

I can truly say I don't have guilt, from a god perspective. I have guilt for hurting my H and family. My AP (or xAP??) is Christian and he has TONS of guilt, though the opposite of mine. He is more guilty for 'sinning' than feeling bad towards is W.

 

Thoughts? Would love opinions here.

[carhill]

I still felt it was 'wrong', even though I had abandoned my formal faith with graduation mass at high school. Sometimes we do wrong things to do them. Part of being human. It's a choice with consequences, just like any other choice. Had I still practiced my faith in a demonstrable way, I would have done what millions of other Catholic sinners do, wear out the confessional boards and profess and atone for my perceived misdeeds.

 

Since I don't believe in god in the ways people of organized religion or faith do, perhaps such an answer is irrelevant. If I stopped believing, it was from watching how those sinners treated me and cleansed their souls on Sunday. I couldn't abide by that so moved on.

[OverIt75]

I still felt it was 'wrong', even though I had abandoned my formal faith with graduation mass at high school. Sometimes we do wrong things to do them. Part of being human. It's a choice with consequences, just like any other choice. Had I still practiced my faith in a demonstrable way, I would have done what millions of other Catholic sinners do, wear out the confessional boards and profess and atone for my perceived misdeeds.

 

Since I don't believe in god in the ways people of organized religion or faith do, perhaps such an answer is irrelevant. If I stopped believing, it was from watching how those sinners treated me and cleansed their souls on Sunday. I couldn't abide by that so moved on.

 

Carhill, help me understand the Catholic perspective. Why feel more guilt over adultery than lust? Is one more of a 'mortal sin'? Didn't Jesus ultimately say that lust is just as bad (adultery of the heart)? And confession makes it all better? I am not Catholic, just trying to understand.

 

So are you no longer Christian, or just no longer Catholic?

[amaysngrace]

Faith is a personal decision the same way that having an affair is a personal decision.

 

If dropping one off to pick up the other works for you who cares what anyone else believes?

[OverIt75]

Faith is a personal decision the same way that having an affair is a personal decision.

 

If dropping one off to pick up the other works for you who cares what anyone else believes?

 

Ultimately we will all choose what we believe.

 

I am just truly curious. Of those that are wayward and religious, how does that play out in your heads? What do you do about it, if anything? How do you deal with it?

[OverIt75]

Morality exits as a fundamental thing.

 

If you cheat on your husband yet pray, does that mean your husband will not feel the pain of your cheating?

 

If your AP has tons of guilt, then I would wonder whether he might be Catholic. If so, no problem. He should go to confession. Problem solved.

 

If not, then he can just go to church and pray a bit. Again, problem solved!

 

Except, I guess, for that fundamental morality thing...

 

That's not the teaching of any faith. It's just a way of cheating on the teaching of the faith.

 

This is exactly why 'faith' seems like utter BS!!

 

Morality exists without faith. Somehow we've attached one to the other.

 

There are religious people all over the world that do moral and immoral things...just as their are non-religious people who do the same.

[amaysngrace]

Ultimately we will all choose what we believe.

 

I am just truly curious. Of those that are wayward and religious, how does that play out in your heads? What do you do about it, if anything? How do you deal with it?

 

I'm not a wayward but I guess if I were I'd just recognize I've sinned and try to do better in the future.

 

But that goes for anything that doesn't seem like it was the right thing to do.

 

I think it's probably good that you're questioning it all though.

[carhill]

Carhill, help me understand the Catholic perspective. Why feel more guilt over adultery than lust?

To be honest, I don't remember all the 'rules', but my recollection is that the seeds of sin begin in our hearts and minds, for lack of better terminology. Hence, if I were to feel 'guilty', it would be as much for the thought as for the action. That's probably why I disclosed so early, once I knew the thought would become action.

Is one more of a 'mortal sin'? Didn't Jesus ultimately say that lust is just as bad (adultery of the heart)?

I don't remember all the mortal details rather just more generic stuff about sinning and the part about the mind seemed to stick, even though we often hear how people judge us for our actions (in real life)

And confession makes it all better? I am not Catholic, just trying to understand.

I can't really say. I stopped confessing at a pretty young age so didn't have any substantive 'adult' sins to confess or atone for. I always felt it to be a bit hokey, to be honest; at most, perhaps a reminder to reflect upon one's thoughts and actions.

 

So are you no longer Christian, or just no longer Catholic?

 

I haven't followed any sort of organized faith structure since about two weeks after my 18th birthday so I'd probably answer 'no' to both questions. I took the morals and ethics I chose from my socialization and all those years of private Catholic school and made up my own 'faith' and that's how life has gone. Like another poster mentioned, individual, which is probably why I respect all belief systems. I was exposed to one and took away from it what I wanted. Other people do what they do.

 

IMO, when it comes to infidelity, IME, owning the 'sin', reflecting upon it, and making choices based upon that reflection contribute to 'moving on' and living life. I understand that people of faith believe the life we know is only a part of our immortal life but I tend to focus on the here and now. What choices can I make to live a healthier and happier life here and now.

 

The most recent time I used the word 'god' in real life was when I was quietly holding my mother's hand, wishing to her 'god' (she had faith but not religion, mostly) that it would release from the bondage of her illness. My prayers were granted a couple days later. Like I said, I focus on life and accept that I make mistakes and bad choices. It's part of being human.

[compulsivedancer]

I'm not religious, nor is H or OM.

 

For me, adultery (sleeping with someone you aren't married to) is not a "sin," or even morally wrong, and may actually be "good" in some circumstances. If I had had H's blessing, and everyone involved was a consenting adult (informed consent, meaning they knew about it), it would not be an issue.

 

However, lying and betraying someone who loves me and expects me to have his back is wrong. You often hear this expressed as: "It wasn't the sex that hurt; it was the lies."

 

You could consider this a moral "wrong"-ness, or you could call it a violation of our social contract (as husband and wife or as a part of society). From a moral perspective, society (religion, laws, schools, interactions with people he cares about, etc) has taught us it's wrong, and if we subscribe to one of these moral codes, we believe it's bad to act out of accordance with this morality. Likewise, we feel guilt if we don't act accordingly and we feel wronged if others don't act accordingly.

 

From a social contract perspective, the BS has lost trust in his/her spouse and worries, from a pragmatic perspective, whether the relationship is now untenable without that trust. Our expectations that someone will act a certain way are based on our understanding of their character due to our perceptions of their past actions. When you figure in an affair, the past actions leave future actions uncertain and not particularly rosy.

 

You can step back even further and look at it from a question of societal function: Does this type of action harm society and its ability to function? By having an affair, am I making society more underhanded, am I enabling, encouraging or contributing to lying, corruption or betrayal (and its acceptance) within our society? etc.

 

The point being, you don't even have to look at affairs as a morality problem (unless you want to). There are other ways in which affairs can be detrimental.

Edited July 3, 2014 by compulsivedancer

[OverIt75]

Sorry, but I am tired.

 

And when I am tired I tend to be blunt. My apologies.

 

You are engaging in a fools game.

 

Only later will you recognize it as such. In the meantime, you are only looking to "soften" your behaviour...

 

[And that has nothing to do with religion per se.]

 

Tyrone, I appreciate your responses. But I am truly curious how others deal with this. I was hoping to be able to engage in an honest discussion that doesn't include a lot of opinions of my own actions. This is something I've been wrestling with and again, am totally alone in it.

[cozycottagelg]

I have made poor decision in my life. I am not a WS, but a sin in a sin, and I've committed my share.

 

I was/am fortunate enough to grow up in a church with a loving God. A God who forgives. A God who wants you to help your neighbor, to help a stranger, to put others before yourself.

 

Of course you feel guilty, you should feel guilty. But that doesn't mean you are a terrible person unworthy of God's love. The fact that you are here questioning means you still believe in a higher power.

 

Don't beat yourself up. God isn't. Just start doing the right things, things that make you proud of yourself.

 

The truth will set you free. I know it's scary, and I can't say honestly if I'd be able to be truthful if I were in your shoes.. but maybe it will help you.

 

Do you have children? Have you heard of the book Carry On, Warrior by Glennon Doyle Melton? I read that recently and it really strenghtened my faith. And not in a Bible toting way, or a throw it in your face...but an actual down to earth, do as much good as you can way. I highly recommend it.

[jackslife]

It's impossible to argue with someone who believes in god or who has faith about in a religion. As an atheist I believe that we've invented god and religion to makes us feel better about dying. We come out of nothing and we go back to nothing. This is not a dress rehearsal for an infinite life after death. This is it.

 

On a positive note it does mean you should make as much of the life and time you have here as it is all you have.

 

Previous posts have made better points about how your affair and guilt have nothing to do with god or religion. Believing that god will somehow punish you for having an affair is like believing that you won't get Christmas presents for the from Father Christmas for the same reason.

[Owl6118]

I was corresponding with a friend earlier this morning and this came up.

 

My own faith has become a guttering flame. If I am searchingly honest, it is dead, though I have a hard time admitting that in some ways.

 

But even as my Christian faith has wavered, my interest in Christian ethics has increased. If anything, older I have become, the more I have lived through, the more mistakes I have made and tried to make amends for, the more I have come to appreciate the beauty and terrible responsibility implicit in the golden rule.

 

But I don't mean the modern "Do onto others version." I like the old King James version:"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Not simply do-- Love.

 

To have to ask of one's actions, "is this a loving act?" Not "is it fair," not "is it what they deserve," not "is it what they are asking for," not "is it what they need." Instead: is it loving? And loving to ALL the people it touches?

 

What a beautiful and fearsome and unrelenting charge this is.

[yessy21]

God was created to give the hopeless hope.

 

 

God is everywhere around us because we carry faith and hope that our lives will get better before we become compost and energy.

 

 

At the age of 11 I started going to the neighborhood church... signed up for my communion and was baptized. My parents supported me through all that at a very young age.

 

 

After that I studied until the age of 15, many religions that included Santeria, Judaism, Mormonism, Shinto, ect...

 

 

they all have one thing in common. Hope, and respect towards their beliefs.

 

 

I concluded by the age of 14 that we are all temporary gods.

 

 

Go ahead judge my nerd-iness, and belief.

[Jonah]

certainly we are all connected and our actions effects the lives and future of all. Sow wholesome seed and reap a wholesome harvest. There is nothing complicated about the concept, nothing to figure out. To light up a cigarette... you know the implications. There is no judgement to it, just cause and effect. If you believe in a life after the one that you are living, then I think your current calling is to learn to be content with a peaceful life.

 

You don't need a supreme judge, you are constantly judging yourself and currently, not as pleased as you would want to be. My suggestion is to make goals an who you want to be and strive to meet those goals while leaving the past behind, not letting the past damn you from who you could become.

[DKT3]

Being involved in an affair is wrong by defination. For justification reasons, those involved have to distance themselves from the foundation of what makes its wrong. Be it the spouses, parents, children and yes even God.

 

No one wants to be a bad person or to be made to feel bad or less then worthy. Its hard to maintain a close relationships with the core foundation of those beliefs while continuing to engage in the activities that are pulling one away from that foundation.

 

In short, you don't watch the house you set on fire burn from the inside.

[Owl]

During her EA, my wife was convinced that they were brought together by God for a reason...so that they could be together.

 

She completely ignored the fact that in her/our faith, infidelity is a sin.

 

She didn't see her actions (at the time) as against her morals/beliefs.

 

That's because the two were in direct conflict, and it was one she couldn't resolve without acknowledging her responsibilities for her actions...for her own sins by engaging in the affair.

 

Later, as we reconciled, she could clearly see her 'broken thinking', her rationalizations, and how she'd mentally rearranged things to make the unacceptable suddenly more acceptable.

 

That's what 'affair fog' is.

 

OP...that's what you're doing now. You're trying to make your own actions more acceptable, more palatable, by minimizing the moral/religious impacts of them.

 

When the affair ends...you'll start to look back and see that process. But in the affair, it's almost impossible for most people to recognize or admit to doing.

[Jonah]

In pondering your question, which is a good one, I ran across this little piece by Jim Carrey which may hold part of the answer. Go to 10:15 where I think, you may be able to find some inspiration to your dilemma here. It's for everyone really.

 

What Jim Carrey Explains In 1 Minute Will Change Your Life Forever. Seriously. | Mobiledia

 

"What Jim Carrey Explains In 1 Minute Will Change Your Life Forever. Seriously"

[HereNorThere]

Morality is a scientific construct because the basis of morality is empathy. Empathy is a product of our brain, not a magical or mystical force. It does not take religion or fear of punishment to know not to kill or hurt people, just the power be able to put yourself in their shoes.

[thummper]

I'm not religious, nor is H or OM.

 

For me, adultery (sleeping with someone you aren't married to) is not a "sin," or even morally wrong, and may actually be "good" in some circumstances. If I had had H's blessing, and everyone involved was a consenting adult (informed consent, meaning they knew about it), it would not be an issue.

 

However, lying and betraying someone who loves me and expects me to have his back is wrong. You often hear this expressed as: "It wasn't the sex that hurt; it was the lies."

 

You could consider this a moral "wrong"-ness, or you could call it a violation of our social contract (as husband and wife or as a part of society). From a moral perspective, society (religion, laws, schools, interactions with people he cares about, etc) has taught us it's wrong, and if we subscribe to one of these moral codes, we believe it's bad to act out of accordance with this morality. Likewise, we feel guilt if we don't act accordingly and we feel wronged if others don't act accordingly.

 

From a social contract perspective, the BS has lost trust in his/her spouse and worries, from a pragmatic perspective, whether the relationship is now untenable without that trust. Our expectations that someone will act a certain way are based on our understanding of their character due to our perceptions of their past actions. When you figure in an affair, the past actions leave future actions uncertain and not particularly rosy.

 

You can step back even further and look at it from a question of societal function: Does this type of action harm society and its ability to function? By having an affair, am I making society more underhanded, am I enabling, encouraging or contributing to lying, corruption or betrayal (and its acceptance) within our society? etc.

 

The point being, you don't even have to look at affairs as a morality problem (unless you want to). There are other ways in which affairs can be detrimental.

 

 

 

Seriously, CD??? I'm sure CM doesn't feel it's ok. If adultery isn't "wrong", why even get married. Why not just engage in a series of meaningless sexual encounters with guys you use, and then move on. I've NEVER understood the idea of open marriage.

[HereNorThere]

Seriously, CD??? I'm sure CM doesn't feel it's ok. If adultery isn't "wrong", why even get married. Why not just engage in a series of meaningless sexual encounters with guys you use, and then move on. I've NEVER understood the idea of open marriage.

 

I hate taking up for CD, but CM has openly admitted that he discussed having an open relationship with her in the future. I always think of that story like the movie Inception. Once that idea was planted, there was no way to take it back, no matter how hard he tried. That's the problem that most people don't see with that sort of arrangement, people bond and it takes away from their previous commitments.

 

That being said, there's nothing moral or immoral about it, that's a choice between two people. I would be SICK to think about my partner with someone else, but there are lots of things I do that might make someone else sick.

[drifter777]

In pondering your question, which is a good one, I ran across this little piece by Jim Carrey which may hold part of the answer. Go to 10:15 where I think, you may be able to find some inspiration to your dilemma here. It's for everyone really

 

"What Jim Carrey Explains In 1 Minute Will Change Your Life Forever. Seriously"

You can't be serious. This is just a clown with diarrhea of the mouth spouting bumper sticker philosophy.

 

Also: your "sow wholesome seeds and reap a wholesome harvest" is ignorant, sophomoric thinking. Bad things happen to good people. Life is horribly unfair. Anyone who expects to be rewarded for being a "good" person will live a terribly frustrating, unhappy life.

Edited July 4, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Clean up quote and inflammatory comments

[OverIt75]

I know many of you assume I'm justifying, or trying to rationalize my own choices. God or no god, I still have no doubt that what I've been doing is wrong. It's wrong because it requires deceit, I've broken a promise, I've betrayed someone I love. But I don't know if it's wrong because it's 'a sin'.

 

Owl, you said that your W felt at one point that god had brought her and her xAP together. There was a point in the beginning that my AP and I shared those thoughts with each other. Crazy but true. The funny thing is, while he still holds tight to his beliefs, I have gone the other direction.

 

The other big irony here is that my H is atheist, always has been. So this paradigm shift in my own mind actually gives me more in common with my H than xAP.

[OverIt75]

Bad things happen to good people. Life is horribly unfair. Anyone who expects to be rewarded for being a "good" person will live a terribly frustrating, unhappy life.

 

I think this underscores why I am actually asking these questions. My xAP really believes that when something bad happens to him, it is because of his sin. So historically that's when he's gone cold on me, but then I guess his 'evil desires' overwhelm him and he comes back...

[Chi townD]

Not really going to get into this here. But, I believe that there has to be more to this life. Scientifically we can prove the possibility of God, And there's just too many things we just don't understand. So, why couldn't there be a God?

 

 

If we had a time machine and went back 3000 years to the Parthenon where greek scholars gathered at it's libraries and we had a forum with them and we told them "That there are particles found in all matter; living and non-living, even in the atmosphere and they're called atoms. Now, you can't see them. But, trust me they're there. And one day, we will be able to harness one of these atoms (that we can't see) and we'll even go a step further and we will split one of these atoms. You'll know when we succeeded in splitting it because it will cause an explosion beyond anything you can comprehend. So, basically, causing an explosion out of mid-air."

 

 

We would be laughed out of those libraries; yet, that's EXACTLY what we did thousands of years in the future in the form of the atom bomb. So, we just don't know.

 

 

Damn, so much for not getting into it. LOL!