life-is-short Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 Since my breakup, I'm reading all the time (it is nice to get back to being a bibliophile). One of my favorite post-BU reads so far is Brene Brown's Book, Daring Greatly: How The Courage To Be Vulnerable Transforms The Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead. It's incredible. I think it will help you with BU and with getting ready for a new relationship. The fact is, vulnerability and taking the risk to be vulnerable are so crucial for living up to your fullest potential. Anyway, there was one section of the book that affected me in an incredible way [the marble jar she is talking about is something her child's teacher does at school- they add marbles to the jar based upon positive behavior and take marbles out of jar based upon negative behavior. When the jar is full, the children get a reward]. ---------See excerpt from book below:----- "When we think about betrayal in terms of the marble jar metaphor, most of us think of someone we trust doing something so terrible that it forces us to grab the jar and dump out every single marble. What’s the worst betrayal of trust? He sleeps with my best friends. She lies about where the money went. He/she chooses someone over me. Someone uses my vulnerability against me (an act of emotional treason that causes most of us to slam the entire jar to the ground rather than just dumping out the marbles.) All terrible betrayals, definitely, but there is a particular sort of betrayal that is more insidious and equally corrosive to trust. In fact, this betrayal usually happens long before the other ones. I’m talking about the betrayal of disengagement. Of not caring. Of letting the connection go. Of not being willing to devote time and effort to the relationship. The word betrayal evokes experiences of cheating, lying, breaking a confidence, failing to defend us to someone else who’s gossiping about us, and not choosing us over other people. These behaviors are certainly betrayals, but they’re not the only form of betrayal. If I had to choose the form of betrayal that emerged most frequently from my research and that was the most dangerous in terms of corroding the trust connection, I would would say disengagement. When the people we love or with whom we have a deep connection stop caring, stop paying attention, stop investing and fighting for the relationship, trust begins to slip away and hurt starts seeping in. Disengagement triggers shame and our greatest fears - the fears of being abandoned, unworthy, and unlovable. What can make this covert betrayal so much more dangerous than something like a lie or an affair is that we can’t point to the source of our pain - there’s no event, no obvious evidence of brokenness. It can feel crazy-making. -------------- This is EXACTLY what my ex-gf did. She gave up about mid-way through our relationship and just started to become more and more disengaged. It was confusing to me because she didn't break up with me through this disengagement, she just progressively became more distant from me. It was torture. Having the person you love in front of you slowly fading away. Falling out of love. And the more I tried to keep her connected, the more she disengaged. I am the one who officially broke up with her, but only because she wouldn't do it herself. It was very crazy-making and painful! But it was a great lesson for me to learn. When someone disengages and they aren't interested in trying to re-engage, then it is time to leave. I stayed much too long past the point of her disengagement. Lesson learned for the future! 5
todreaminblue Posted July 2, 2014 Posted July 2, 2014 True, not knowing and feeling helpless to stop someone drifting away is betrayal of a high order...... i think when you commit you should commit good times or bad and drifting is not an option ...i would never drift away from someone...but i am a loyal person whpo expects not so good times in a relationship where you have to make some effort ......deb 1
adapting Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 Wow, that hit the nail on the head! But I'm in the opposite position from you... I started to disengage first, and he ended it. But the funny thing was, once he started to disengage too, I realized I may have made a mistake, but by then it was too late. I feel awful for having hurt my ex like that, but honestly at the time I know I consciously disengaged because I felt like I wanted him to give me more attention (it sounds awful I know, but there were a lot of things going on) but instead it backfired and then he disengaged too. But maybe this gives you some insight into what your gf was feeling? I've since remembered the whole law of attraction thing - where if you want attention you should give it, not take it away from the other person. So I'm hoping if/when this situation arises for me again I will be able to keep that in mind!
Author life-is-short Posted July 3, 2014 Author Posted July 3, 2014 ...I felt like I wanted him to give me more attention (it sounds awful I know, but there were a lot of things going on) but instead it backfired and then he disengaged too. But maybe this gives you some insight into what your gf was feeling? I've since remembered the whole law of attraction thing - where if you want attention you should give it, not take it away from the other person. So I'm hoping if/when this situation arises for me again I will be able to keep that in mind! Thanks, adapting. No, the challenge with my ex-gf was that she was attachment avoidant. I gave her lots of attention (probably too much), but the more I gave, the more she pushed away. She was scared to go deep and scared of intimacy. I was very supportive of her and tried to help her in lots of different ways. But it wasn't what she wanted. The big error I made is that I should have ended things earlier when it was clear she wasn't going to be as committed to the relationship as I was and when it was clear she wasn't willing to work on her own self-development or go to counseling with me (and on her own, like I'm going to counseling on my own). I allowed her to violate my boundaries and to disrespect me (very verbally critical) and that is my mistake. I should never allow anyone to violate my boundaries, especially in a relationship. That isn't healthy for me and the problem is that I let her continue to violate my boundaries (so I was indirectly reinforcing her behavior). It is a tough lesson to learn, but I'd rather learn now than later and I'm thankful, ultimately, to not be in the relationship because it was actually very toxic. I wish her well and hope she finds the happiness she is seeking out there that she didn't seem to have when she was with me.
elseaacych Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 My ex definitely was disengaging in the relationship: probably as far back as about four months before we ended. Then, someone new came along, and then he really started disengaging, and it was tough for me because I didn't know what to do about it. I had my own problems to handle, and I thought he was going through a depressive phase, and what I could do never seemed to be enough. Boredom is a slow poison. 1
requin Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 life-is-short, my ex bf was the same thing-- an avoidant. He broke us up 6 weeks ago and I never saw it coming. I only saw signs of disengagement about a week before the breakup...vague things that I just thought were him in a mood or something. Although in retrospect of course I can see them for what they were--overt signs of his disinterest in me and the r'ship. Perhaps I was in denial, I don't know. I had tried to talk w/ him about what was wrong, so he had chances to speak up, but didnt'. Like you I am an addict/anxious type and probably pushed too hard. I didn't know my guy was an avoidant until a few weeks after our breakup. Then when talking w/ a friend it hit me and I could not believe I never even thought about it!! I've been "educated" on my own love addiction for a long time but I hadn't dated an avoidant per se (I was involved w/ someone w/ NPD so I knew a lot about narcissism but I had not read up on that same person's avoidant tendencies) so I was clueless. Indeed what makes the disengagement even worse is the way an avoidant will come on like crazy at first...my guy was amazing for the first several months of our r'ship,saying I was his first real love, we'd be together forever, etc. (We're both in our 50s, so this was a big deal to hear!) I thought I had finally found my Omega man and all was going to actually work out right. But he disengaged, nit picked me to pieces and broke us up. And now I am in denial about it, I cannot believe he's gone, I can't believe he thought things were bad when I was still utterly crazy about him. After the best year of my life with him, i'm living in a kind of nightmare of disbelief and constant pain and hopelessness. 1
Author life-is-short Posted July 3, 2014 Author Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) life-is-short, my ex bf was the same thing-- an avoidant. ...Like you I am an addict/anxious type and probably pushed too hard. I didn't know my guy was an avoidant until a few weeks after our breakup... But he disengaged, nit picked me to pieces and broke us up. And now I am in denial about it, I cannot believe he's gone, I can't believe he thought things were bad when I was still utterly crazy about him. After the best year of my life with him, i'm living in a kind of nightmare of disbelief and constant pain and hopelessness. I'm very sorry to hear that Requin. That sounds very painful and sad. I started the relationship as stable, but with her constant criticisms (and my lack of enforcing my own boundaries), my self-worth plummeted and my confidence went way down. At that point, I do think I was more attachment-anxious because I was craving some type of acknowledgement from her. It's scary how low I got when I entered the relationship being very confident and happy. I think it was a toxic and at times abusive relationship and I didn't extract myself fast enough. Very bad error on my part. I've been spending hours every day reflecting upon my relationship and it is clear to me that there were so many warning signs during the relationship that I ignored to my own detriment. She just never was into me as I was into her. It never really reached any form of amazing for me. I wouldn't be surprised if she has BPD or NPD or maybe a sociopath. I've never been around someone that lacking in empathy/emotion. I'm very in touch with my emotions so it is strange to me that I was so attracted to her and felt so in love. We both saw great potential in each other and the relationship (dangerous to fall in love with potential), but she never committed to it like I did. I can make sense of most of the relationship and our individual and mutual problems. I can't understand why she stayed in it so long when it was clear that she didn't want to be with me. Perhaps it was some type of guilty feeling or perhaps she just wanted companionship during the winter. Whatever her reasons, the more important issue is why did I wait so long to leave when the person I was with, the person I thought I loved, was treating me so badly? It is a critical and very painful (and expensive) lesson for me to learn. I'm also realizing more each day that I was in love with the being in love...I loved being in a relationship again after such a hard breakup a few years ago...but I don't think I was in love with this woman like I thought. I was in love with who I thought she could be and I was in love with being with someone again. But that really isn't love, in the end. Good luck with your healing requin. Edited July 3, 2014 by life-is-short
sugarlove Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 I started to disengage mainly because I've a lot on my mind which I wasn't able to open myself enough to tell him. I didn't want him to see me as someone who has issues. I've been single for so long so it's hard for me not to pull away when someone starts feeling affection for me. It's not something intentional, but when I'm under a lot of stress, I really don't have much to give to anyone. So even though I do love him to death, I have trouble showing it... He probably started disengaging when I started holding back my feelings. I'm not sure when this started but I was also slightly tired of always being the one to plan activities for us, organising dates and making other big decisions. SO really, maybe he failed to play his part in the relationship so that disengagement caused my disengagement caused his disengagement caused my disengagement caused his disengagement leading to the breakup. Oh. I see what you are saying now.....
Itspointless Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 I am really sorry for you life-is-short Indeed what makes the disengagement even worse is the way an avoidant will come on like crazy at first...my guy was amazing for the first several months of our r'ship,saying I was his first real love, we'd be together forever, etc. (We're both in our 50s, so this was a big deal to hear!) I thought I had finally found my Omega man and all was going to actually work out right. This sounds very familiar to me. For example in the beginning she told me it was the first time in her life that she (mid-thirties) experienced butterflies. She made many promises that I tried not to take to serious. But at some point I made the mistake (?) to let myself go due to so much enthusiasm. At the moment we were becoming very real - the moment she encountered stress and I wanted to be there for her - she turned distant on me. We even had talked about our fears, but I never expected something like this. This answer posted a few years ago that I found on another board describes it perfectly: I do feel for you and I totally understand where you are coming from. I am coming out of the same type situation. What I see as the most frustrating part of it all is that this personality only arises out of these people when they are faced with conflict. Other than that their personality is one of pure happiness and their enthusiasm about you and their love for you is stronger than most other people have ever showed. I just came out of that situation where I think how can someone who can be so loving, caring and sweet do a total 180 and revert to a closed off individual who states: I am going to believe what I believe and no one can change that. HOW FRUSTRATING...almost to a point of stubbourn to no end. You try to look around it and keep having faith in them, but at some point we both have to say...."if it wasn't this situation and we did get back together...are we guaranteed that they won't act this way about something else as well?" I mean wouldn't it happen again if this is truly who they are? I guess that is the part that both you and I are struggling with right now. This is how the one we love processes things. This is how they deal with things and it isn't healthy. I wish I had better news for you, but I do believe that you see this pattern forming and what could have been.
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