SMART PEOPLE: What Is Your Perspective On THIS Relationship Problem

[SparklingandBroken]

Sounds like my exH. He's turning it around on you, because he's lying. Get out now while you still can. Things won't change.

[MissBee]

This man sounds unstable.

 

And clearly you fight every so often and then he hits objects, punches walls, screams and cries.

 

This is abnormal.

 

Forget the car seat, which is in itself fishy, but at this point besides the point. His response is scary and doesn't look good for the future. It also seems manipulative. Manipulative people tend to have over the top reactions when they feel cornered in order to not have to answer questions or be accountable and that's what he seems to be doing. They behave in over the top ways so that the focus comes off of them and the question at hand and turns toward making you feel bad for questioning them.

 

I know you love him and what have you...but this behavior is alarming and you need to think carefully about your future with a man who when you argue needs to behave so erratically especially over simple things.

[laurelin]

I think you have two choices: 1) Walk away or 2) Have a plan

 

You love this guy and you, obviously, feel a strong connection to him when he's not angry so everyone here can tell you to walk now, while you still can and that may well be awesome advice, but is it really something you think you will do? When you read that, do you feel empowered to leave or do you think you need to gather more opinions?

 

From your perspective, he exhibits some suspicious behaviors. But, they don't seem, to me, to be completely suspicious. From the info you've provided, I think it's quite possible you are overly observant and quick to suspect cheating and your boyfriend is quick to anger when he senses distrust. This is a volatile combination. Your worst fears trigger your worst reactions in one another.

 

His worst reaction jeopardizes your safety and emotional well-being. If you're not going to walk away from him, then you need to figure out a way to either prevent that reaction from happening (i.e. not questioning him) or set a boundary with him that when he starts swearing and yelling, you will physically distance yourself from him until such time as he calms down.

[Elle1975]

At one point he was pointing his finger at me and it was hitiing my rib, so I said "you're hurting me" and he said "I don't care; YOU're hurting ME!" and I thought to myself, oh my gosh - how can this be the man that is a PRINCE and KNIGHT and sweetheart to me every day?

 

That's how physical abuse goes. You meet prince charming, and he turns out to be a whole different beast. Of course, he's putting the blame on you "I don't care, you're hurting me". "You" made him do it. What a winner..

 

Coming from a man, or a woman, abuse is never okay. What he did was actually simple assault - in my state it is.

 

You're wondering if and why he lied? I'd be looking at his aggressive behavior, and I'd promptly leave him.

[Snow_Queen]

That's how physical abuse goes. You meet prince charming, and he turns out to be a whole different beast. Of course, he's putting the blame on you "I don't care, you're hurting me". "You" made him do it. What a winner..

 

Coming from a man, or a woman, abuse is never okay. What he did was actually simple assault - in my state it is.

 

You're wondering if and why he lied? I'd be looking at his aggressive behavior, and I'd promptly leave him.

 

I happen to agree.

 

Everything you described points to abuse. When someone has anger issues anything can set that person off. This is what people call "walking on eggshells". The best thing to do at this point is to leave before it becomes worse.

[MatrixLiz]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here but about his reaction - maybe he was having a really **** day and, I mean, you did get all suspicious about how his car seat was in a different position…

We all have those days.

Not that his reaction is ok…

Also, if you are always on his ass for 'cheating' or 'lying' (And I'm going to assume you are because, you know, you just spazzed out out over a car seat….) it's kind of understandable that he would be fed up at some point.

Again, not that his reaction is ok but this is how I'm seeing it from the outside.

I think you (just you) need to start assessing your insecurities and get them in check.

You either trust him and stay with him (and stop spazzing out over little details like this) or you decide that you don't trust him and leave him.

No use putting both of you through this forever...

 

Well the thing is - I asked him what he did in the 10 hours that we were apart and he said nothing that involved another person or multiple people. So then I double-checked by asking if he was with his brother or anyone, and he said no. So then I asked if he moved the passenger side car seat, and he said no. THIS is where I starting getting highly suspicious... because he was providing no explanation for why it was moved... therefore he must be lying... and if he's lying... then it must be because of something that is NOT innocent (otherwise, why not just tell me?). THAT is why I felt/feel distrustful - the lying.

 

If he would be truthful and honest with me at all times, then I could totally trust him completely (and I did until that broken picture frame "the airline broke it" incident came up. He should have told me that a jealous girl broke it...because THAT was the truth).

 

If I see him fibbing about certain things at times, then what's to keep me from suspecting that he could be lying to me at any given moment?

 

Once he went to court for an illegal vehicle move and he knew that he was in the wrong but claimed innocence... I guess most people would do that, but it doesn't make sense to me. Eight years ago when I wasn't following the rules of the road, I owned up to it in court and admitted it. i don't know. i just have a hard time trusting someone who i've seen plainly lie before

 

and like I said above, if the reason for the seat being moved is something that he does not want to reveal to me... well, that's suspicious/fishy.

[MatrixLiz]

A lot of you people are providing great perspective, thanks so much!!

[MatrixLiz]

I don't know my tone. At one point I was like, "okay wait - so if I didn't do this, and you didn't do it and no one else was in or near your car (as you say), then what other options are there? How could this seat have possibly moved (it's manual)?"

I never said the word "cheated" but I think that there could have been someone in his car that he was not cheating on me with. and if so, then why not just tell me? why lie about it?

 

At one point he said/yelled "say it! you think I cheated. oh yeah, I'm cheating on you with all kinds of girls! Is THAT what you wanted to hear?!"

 

and I was trying to tell him that I just want to know the truth.

 

but even if my tone WAS really bad (it wasn't), he doesn't have to lie to me or yell non-stop at me or break up with me or end our date or swear at me or push my ribs

[GoreSP]

Well the thing is - I asked him what he did in the 10 hours that we were apart and he said nothing that involved another person or multiple people. So then I double-checked by asking if he was with his brother or anyone, and he said no. So then I asked if he moved the passenger side car seat, and he said no. THIS is where I starting getting highly suspicious... because he was providing no explanation for why it was moved... therefore he must be lying... and if he's lying... then it must be because of something that is NOT innocent (otherwise, why not just tell me?). THAT is why I felt/feel distrustful - the lying.

 

If he would be truthful and honest with me at all times, then I could totally trust him completely (and I did until that broken picture frame "the airline broke it" incident came up. He should have told me that a jealous girl broke it...because THAT was the truth).

 

If I see him fibbing about certain things at times, then what's to keep me from suspecting that he could be lying to me at any given moment?

 

Once he went to court for an illegal vehicle move and he knew that he was in the wrong but claimed innocence... I guess most people would do that, but it doesn't make sense to me. Eight years ago when I wasn't following the rules of the road, I owned up to it in court and admitted it. i don't know. i just have a hard time trusting someone who i've seen plainly lie before

 

and like I said above, if the reason for the seat being moved is something that he does not want to reveal to me... well, that's suspicious/fishy.

 

Whatever helps you sleep at night honey….

 

You asked for my opinion and I gave it. It still stands. You got all suspicious over a stupid car seat...

 

Though I admit he missed the part where he hurt you. I am not excusing this (on the contrary) but it's not something I wish to comment any further for personal reasons.

[MatrixLiz]

This man sounds unstable.

And clearly you fight every so often and then he hits objects, punches walls, screams and cries.

This is abnormal.

Forget the car seat, which is in itself fishy, but at this point besides the point. His response is scary and doesn't look good for the future. It also seems manipulative. Manipulative people tend to have over the top reactions when they feel cornered in order to not have to answer questions or be accountable and that's what he seems to be doing. They behave in over the top ways so that the focus comes off of them and the question at hand and turns toward making you feel bad for questioning them.

I know you love him and what have you...but this behavior is alarming and you need to think carefully about your future with a man who when you argue needs to behave so erratically especially over simple things.

 

Yes, good post. I know what you mean about "forget the car seat...beside the point..his response is scary". And thank you for educating about that tactic of manipulative people; I had no idea about their psychology and behavior. I appreciate your post.

 

See, here's the thing: I grew up with daily physical and emotional abuse. I'm used to it and used to it way worse and used to actually getting offended by the cruel unkind yelled words. but nothing my boyfriend has said through yelling has really offended me, my biggest issue is the lying. I can not stand someone being untruthful.

and cheating has thus far never been proven so I can't include tHat. If he did/does cheat, well... THEN I would feel that I literally have no choice but to leave him (since that is endangering my health.. with stds/STIs and such).

 

I guess aside from the lying, the thing that has gotten to me most was the "I don't care!" when I told him that he was physically hurting me. I mean, I know that a mad person will say ANYTHING when they're upset, but still . . . I don't like how he doesn't/wouldn't turn soft when I told him that he was hurting me.

 

That one poster said something about rationalizing physical abuse - yes, I have seen this A LOT in my life, and I guess this was the first time I've seen it with my boyfriend. I guess I rationalize it by thinking "well, they're in a mad state" but . . . maybe I shouldn't be so 'okay' with it?

 

It's just I'd hate to give up on him due to all of his good sides

[PogoStick]

OMG this just happened to me this last week too! The seat was back because a friend was riding there. Damn guys we need to be more careful or the chicks become all Ace Ventura on us!

 

And girls are always finding random hair, asking, "who's is this?! WTF is this? I don't have blond hair!" LOL a girlfriend did that to me, and I had 2 female roommates that I shared a house with.

[MatrixLiz]

I think you have two choices: 1) Walk away or 2) Have a plan

You love this guy and you, obviously, feel a strong connection to him when he's not angry so everyone here can tell you to walk now, while you still can and that may well be awesome advice, but is it really something you think you will do? When you read that, do you feel empowered to leave or do you think you need to gather more opinions?

From your perspective, he exhibits some suspicious behaviors. But, they don't seem, to me, to be completely suspicious. From the info you've provided, I think it's quite possible you are overly observant and quick to suspect cheating and your boyfriend is quick to anger when he senses distrust. This is a volatile combination. Your worst fears trigger your worst reactions in one another.

His worst reaction jeopardizes your safety and emotional well-being. If you're not going to walk away from him, then you need to figure out a way to either prevent that reaction from happening (i.e. not questioning him) or set a boundary with him that when he starts swearing and yelling, you will physically distance yourself from him until such time as he calms down.

Thank you! I appreciate the other option! The "leave him" advice is to black and white for me. I like his good sides too much to never see him again.

 

I WOULD love to gather more options, so if people here have more options, please shout them out.

 

& yes - the not questioning him when I seriously want to ask a question... that would be hard for me. The question would just always be in the back of my mind. and so if it's nothing, I'd just like a straight-forward truthful answer from him, and then wah-la, odd-lokking-scenario explained!

 

"set a boundary with him that when he starts swearing and yelling, you will physically distance yourself from him until such time as he calms down"

I think I would be calling a taxi a lot then. Should I just get an on-call friend to pick me up from situations like this? but my BF and I are mainly together late on Friday and Saturday nights... so few people would want to wake up and come pick me up at 3AM in the morning (we stay up REALLY late when we're together). I don't have my own car, and I don't have family here.

So it's hard to just leave.

and he drives unsafely when he's mad.

and when he's in that state, I'm afraid that if I leave - he'll go out and drink and then really WILL cheat or he'll try to commit suicide or something.

 

because as bad as he can get when he's sober, I've seen him under-the-influence of alcohol before, and it is WAY Worse!

Together, we do not drink. but if I were to leave him alone while he's mad, he WOULD go to a bar and drink. I don't want his judgment to be impaired and then he hooks up with someone at the bar or he hurts himself.

[MatrixLiz]

"You got all suspicious over a stupid car seat" No, I got suspicious because one can logically induce that he lied. I got suspicious about the lying.

 

"Whatever helps you sleep at night honey" I don't go for what helps me sleep at night, I just go for seeking the truth.

 

I should be allowed to ask a question without getting broken up with and treated badly

[Elle1975]

The "leave him" advice is to black and white for me

 

It's not too black and white. It's just not what you want to hear.

 

You don't fix anger and abuse by setting boundaries. He would need to be the one to change, not you.

[GoreSP]

"You got all suspicious over a stupid car seat" No, I got suspicious because one can logically induce that he lied. I got suspicious about the lying.

 

"Whatever helps you sleep at night honey" I don't go for what helps me sleep at night, I just go for seeking the truth.

 

I should be allowed to ask a question without getting broken up with and treated badly

 

Well, sweetie, if you post here looking for people to agree with you and will not challenge how you see the situation, you should mention it in your original post.

 

You ask for opinions but argue with those who tell you what you don't want to hear...

[FitChick]

He picked up a hooker and had sex in his car.

[amaysngrace]

He picked up a hooker and had sex in his car.

 

Or another girl he's been talking to for a while.

 

Now he's being a prick about you busting him so it becomes your fault that you guys break up because he likes to bang the new girl better.

[littleplanet]

Well, sweetie, if you post here looking for people to agree with you and will not challenge how you see the situation, you should mention it in your original post.

 

You ask for opinions but argue with those who tell you what you don't want to hear...

 

 

 

Give her a break, lad.

Do you really think you're being helpful?

The woman is in love with a potential physical abuser, and you're nitpicking about protocols?

 

OP -

 

From what you've described here, your boyfriend has some issues that you should take seriously.

It is not too many steps away from breaking things and pounding walls to transferring that over to your physical self.

I would think about that long and hard, and soon.

 

As has already been mentioned here - the details don't really matter.

Unless you were accusing him of being an axe murderer - the issue is his response to you. There is no respect in it at all.

 

You are not the FBI and he is not under surveillance.

You are the one he is supposed to be loyal and trustworthy to.

Think about that.

Trust.

If you don't trust him with your health and safety -

then he is not to be trusted. Period.

 

Just this: "He drives unsafely when he's mad."

He's not alone.

You're in his car with him.

It doesn't seem to matter or click in.

I call that an uncontrollable temper.

Connect the dots.

 

I understand your problem. You don't want to consider a break.

I get that.

But how far are you willing to push that envelope?

With your health?

With your life?

 

Think it over..............

[GoreSP]

Give her a break, lad.

Do you really think you're being helpful?

The woman is in love with a potential physical abuser, and you're nitpicking about protocols?

 

OP -

 

Well, I tried being helpful. OP seems to be looking for people to agree with her but I think there is another side to this story she is not telling us or isn't willing to ackowledge it.

 

I don't think she is the innocent here (I don't think her boyfriend is either mind you) and I see no reason to 'give her a break'

So I stand by my first post.

 

I will also point out that emotionnal abuse is also abuse...

Edited July 1, 2014 by GoreSP

[MatrixLiz]

I told you all I know.

 

There IS another side to the story - HIS side, of how the seat really got like that and why he doesn't want to tell me.

 

I'm not "looking for people to agree with me," because I don't even know myself what to think. That's why I'm asking for perspectives.

and right now, I'm desperately trying to either justify staying with him or make it so clear as day that it's a very bad decision to stay with him that I can actually commit to the action of leaving (him).

[Elle1975]

I told you all I know.

 

There IS another side to the story - HIS side, of how the seat really got like that and why he doesn't want to tell me.

 

I'm not "looking for people to agree with me," because I don't even know myself what to think. That's why I'm asking for perspectives.

and right now, I'm desperately trying to either justify staying with him or make it so clear as day that it's a very bad decision to stay with him that I can actually commit to the action of leaving (him).

 

Well, you're in love with him, and I can understand why it's hard to let go.

 

You know if I was to move my passenger seat, I'd remember why, provided that it didn't happen 3 months ago. But the passenger seat isn't really important. It triggered an ugly response in him. That's what you need to be looking at.

 

It's hard to see the situation for what it is, to see him for who he is, because you're neck deep in it.

 

May I suggest you talk to a counselor? Just a couple sessions, just so you get the input from a "real person" and not the internet, if you feel that you're not getting the right answers here.

 

Nobody wants to think they could be dating an abusing guy/girl, till one day he gives you a black eye, or crashes his car into another, and you end up at the ER. And the psychological damage is huge too.

 

His behavior is NOT okay, far from it!

[IAmRobot]

His reaction was definitely over the top. I don't think an innocent person would have that reaction.

 

I completely disagree.

 

It appears that this (you questioning him) happens a lot and noone wants to be doubted in every detail they make. I know I take it calmly, but not everyone might. If he has given you no reason to doubt him then why are you doubting him over a car seat placement?? There could be 100 reasons. What next, you're gonna ask why he tied his shoes a certain way?

[allez102]

About my BF (26)

So I noticed the passenger seat in his car was very different than how I ever had it (reclined and scooted back).

So I asked him "what did you do today" and if he had anyone in his car and he said no. I then asked if HE had moved it, and he said no (but I know for a fact that I never have the passenger seat like that). Is there another possible explanation or is he lying?

 

He provided no explanation. Then he got very furious with me and yelled and swore at me and hit objects and started treating ME like -I- was the bad one. He said that me asking him that is implying that he's a cheater and a liar and that that makes him feel "small"

He said, "I gave you my heart and now it's all for nothing.." And it seemed like he was breaking up with me... but the previous day he had just gotten done saying that I was his dream girl and that we're going to get married some day.

 

He dropped me back off at my apartment furious as can be - he was being cold and distant and not loving and he would cry an then swear and then yell at me and punch the wall and such... he was being bad with me

 

. . . I don't want to loose him... he has been so wonderful with me (aside from when we get into an argument/fight [like once every two months]) and our souls match so well... I've never felt such a strong connection as what I feel with him. But when he gets mad - it makes me wonder how we can work out being partners for life

 

I don't know what to make of this or what to do next

 

The bits i've bolded speak volumes.

 

I don't know what you mean by "smart people" but I worked with domestic violence perpetrators for some years.

 

His behaviour sounds like the sort of behaviour that someone who has something to hide would exhibit. Your relationship has domestic violence-esque features; it takes an extremely manipulative and narcissistic person to be able to turn round your accusation and make you feel bad instead for what was an innocent question. Throwing objects is violent and threatening. He is guilt tripping you by saying "I gave you my heart...." to make it look like this is all YOUR fault. Manipulation at it's best.

 

Regardless of whether he is innocent or not, that is not an acceptable way to behave. You deserve better!!!

[allez102]

I completely disagree.

 

It appears that this (you questioning him) happens a lot and noone wants to be doubted in every detail they make. I know I take it calmly, but not everyone might. If he has given you no reason to doubt him then why are you doubting him over a car seat placement?? There could be 100 reasons. What next, you're gonna ask why he tied his shoes a certain way?

 

Could not disagree more with this. Under what circumstances is manipulative, emotionally abusive behaviour, threats, and violence acceptable behaviour? The fact that this guy gets so worked up over something like a car seat makes it even MORE worrying. If he doesn't appreciate her questioning behaviour then he should end the relationship, not emotionally torment her and make her feel small. I feel sorry for him, he obviously has deep-rooted issues that manifest in this behaviour.

[ktya]

Well, I tried being helpful. OP seems to be looking for people to agree with her but I think there is another side to this story she is not telling us or isn't willing to ackowledge it.

 

I don't think she is the innocent here (I don't think her boyfriend is either mind you) and I see no reason to 'give her a break'

So I stand by my first post.

 

I will also point out that emotionnal abuse is also abuse...

 

This.

 

My ex was on a witch hunt to catch me cheating on her. She scoured my internet history, wanted to see my bank statements hacked my facebook, email. Went through even deleted emails that were never sent. Skimmed my phone when i was sleeping.

 

I wasnt cheating. She never found what she was looking for. But on occasion shed find something that she didnt like, like an entry in my private journal, some raunchy porn, a google search. Once i was hammered and sent an email to an escort off craigslist. I woke up remorseful and saw that it never even got sent and thought that was great and deleted the draft.

 

When shed come at me with these "nuggets" i would blow my top and i nearly dumped her. Would have kicked her ass right out if there wasnt a kid involved. I mean if you log i to my computer to print a file and my email is uo and theres some broad emailing me go ahead flip out. But to go through my crap on a weekly or daily basis, must have been. Wasnt much to find so i only blew my lid at her a few times.

 

What im getting at is that there is likely a repeated pattern of insecurity in the way OP asks these "fair questions". I mean come on, who sees a car seat is moved, then asks who was in the car, then when told nobody asks if it was a brother, then asks well who was in the car, and carries on. Its a snoop, thats who.

 

If he did this in isolation, hes guilty. If this is the straw that broke the camels back in a practical interrogation and investigation each time he does his own thing for a day, time for OP to get her own counselling.