Author joeymas Posted February 23, 2005 Author Posted February 23, 2005 Awesome opinions! I try to remember that message boards postings are thoughts and not to be taken letter by letter. Every activity has a line that can be crossed before it turns bad. Every person places that line in a different place. If the issue is porn, flirting or whatever. I think being a good husband or wife is knowing where your partner's lines are and maybe being a little flexible with yours. A quote by Stephen Covey from "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People": "We obviously value the difference between men and women, husbands and wives. But what about the social, mental, and emotional differences? Could these differences not also be source of creating new, exciting forms of life--creating an environment that is truly fulfilling for each person, that nurtures the self-esteem and self-worth of each, that creates opportunities for each to mature into independence and then gradually into interdependence? Could synergy not create a new script for the generation--one that is more geared to service and contribution, and is less protective, less adversarial, less selfish; one that is more open, more trusting, more giving, and is less defensive, protective, and political; one that is more loving, more caring, and is less possessive and judgemental?"
passing Posted February 23, 2005 Posted February 23, 2005 I think I get it. What Joeymas is saying is that we spend too much time obsessing over what our spouse is doing, thinking, who they are doing it with, whether or not they are being unfaithful again etc. etc. Their cheating had nothing to do with you, they did it for reasons of their own. To imagine you can control what they do or somehow make them stop behaving in certain ways is unrealistic. If they want to cheat, they will cheat regardless of what you think you can do to prevent it or "change" them. The reality is they are who they are and you are who you are. Either you accept that or you move on. He isn't saying cheating is acceptable behavior. It isn't. But it happens all the time and people learn how damaging it is and either move on from it like Joeymas has, or get a divorce, or suffer for years and years. He's saying he has learned not to let it bother him to the point that his quality of life and the quality of his marriage suffers. However, THAT takes practice, Joeymas. That takes a long time. You have learned to put encase that hurt in a small little corner of your heart, control it, keep it away from the rest of your life and be happy with your wife despite it. Like alot of people , I'm just not there yet. You and your wife have survived this horrible thing. That is good.
I Survived Posted February 23, 2005 Posted February 23, 2005 joeymas - it sound more like you are indifferent and keeping your distance than non-compete.
Author joeymas Posted February 24, 2005 Author Posted February 24, 2005 Bingo - Passing! and yes it took a long time. Forgiveness has absolutely nothing to do with the person who hurt you. Forgiveness IS coming to terms with what has happened and being able to move on.
I Survived Posted February 24, 2005 Posted February 24, 2005 So joeymas - can you be indifferent and distance and still feel deep committed love and closeness with your spouse? Is it a self-preservation thing? I think I understand because I am there.. I love my H but my world would not end tomorrow if he cheated again. I would not be with him because I respect myself more than letting that happen again, but I sincerely believe that I would survive. Frankly, if he would rather be with someone else, I wouldn't want to force him to be with me. Now do I say that because I know in my heart that we have come to a point in our relationship that I am positive that he would not cheat again. Maybe so. But it's a great feeling knowing that we have gotten beyond it.
jmargel Posted February 24, 2005 Posted February 24, 2005 Originally posted by mom-wife-cheater With women and affairs, whether in real life or on the internet, it's not just about sex. For guys, it's all about sex. You couldn't be more wrong about this. Stop stereotyping men on here. Men have emotional needs just like women do. Us men do have a brain and a heart. We just don't think with our 'smaller head'.
Moose Posted February 24, 2005 Posted February 24, 2005 Hmmmm, I was going to say something about that remark too. But I figured someone else would, I was right. But really, I'd have to say that the majority of men are in it for sex. Not all of them, but most.
jmargel Posted February 25, 2005 Posted February 25, 2005 Moose. You can't make that assumption. Some are and some aren't. I would think however if a wife is meeting his needs on every level, then the possiblities of him cheating are *alot* less, same goes for women as well.
Hep Posted March 2, 2005 Posted March 2, 2005 I've been cheated on in the past and am currently engaged. I worry that my present fiance will cheat. He told me he never would blah, blah, I heard that before. I think he is sincere, and we have an amazing relationship. He waited 2 years to be with me ( I wouldn't date him at first, and dated other guys, after being cheated on). I like to think that there are still decent men out there for us decent ladies. I hope that there are still relationships that can conquor being Unfaithful.
sylviaguardian Posted March 2, 2005 Posted March 2, 2005 Originally posted by jmargel I would think however if a wife is meeting his needs on every level, then the possiblities of him cheating are *alot* less, same goes for women as well. I have to say that I don't actually agree totally with the whole 'emotional needs' thing. There are some things that a person in a long-term relationship CANNOT provide their partner : the thrill of the chase, the newness, admiration from someone who does not know you that well, the illicit thrill etc etc When you have been with someone a long time you cannot give them the 'in love' feeling that so many people crave. In Shirley Glass' book 'Not just friends' she states categorically that affairs can happen even to 'good people in good marriages'. I think the idea that affairs only occur because one partner does not meet the other partner's emotional needs is too simplistic. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Syl
jmargel Posted March 2, 2005 Posted March 2, 2005 I have to say that I don't actually agree totally with the whole 'emotional needs' thing. There are some things that a person in a long-term relationship CANNOT provide their partner : the thrill of the chase, the newness, admiration from someone who does not know you that well, the illicit thrill etc etc There's also a saying I go by: The grass is greener on the other side until you have to eat the *hit. Which means the 'newness' wears off pretty fast and then you are basically in the same situation as before, so you look for 'another'. Thrill of the chase, when you are married to the 'love of your life'? That's the beauty about marriage, there is no chase. People who think that are nothing more than immature. If you want admiration, go buy yourself a dog. If the things you listed are more important to a person than what they are receiving from their spouse (ie. true deep love, friendship, companionship, soulmate) then they don't deserve to be married. Those are not valid excuses to cheat. There is no valid excuse.
sylviaguardian Posted March 2, 2005 Posted March 2, 2005 Originally posted by jmargel If the things you listed are more important to a person than what they are receiving from their spouse (ie. true deep love, friendship, companionship, soulmate) then they don't deserve to be married. Those are not valid excuses to cheat. There is no valid excuse. I totally agree with that. But don't you think then when people justify their affair by saying 'he/she didn't meet my emotional needs' that they are trying to put some of the blame onto their partner also? Syl
LucreziaBorgia Posted March 2, 2005 Posted March 2, 2005 Sometimes, the 'betrayed' partner is part of the problem in the mind of the 'wayward spouse'. They don't cause the problems, nor are they responsible for them - but in the mind of the 'wayward' - their needs aren't being met by the partner. That doesn't necessarily make it the 'betrayed' partners fault - nor should they shoulder any blame (unless they are one of the rare people who are fully aware they aren't meeting their partner's needs and stubbornly and selfishly refuse any and all attempts at compromises for the health of the relationship - but even then, they can't really be said to 'cause' an affair.) The 'betrayed' may not be doing anything wrong, and the 'betrayed' may be doing what he/she considers to be good, giving and kind - but the 'betrayed' can't control how their 'wayward' partner perceives that behavior, nor can the 'betrayed' control how the 'wayward' chooses to accommodate those actions to fit (or not fit) his/her needs. So, the 'wayward spouse' makes a bad choice and steps out with someone else who does meet those perceived needs. I think the 'thrill' is the thing that pushes someone like that over to the other side of the fence. I don't think its always the 'thrill' that motivates affairs, but it certainly enhances them. Were that 'thrill' not there, I wager a lot fewer affairs would happen. Too much risk. The 'thrill' can tend to blind people to that risk.
sylviaguardian Posted March 2, 2005 Posted March 2, 2005 Very wise words. I never quite thought of it like that. Syl
cranium Posted March 2, 2005 Posted March 2, 2005 Certainly fits the scenario of my wife's affair. I thought I was being good, giving and kind, but I wasn't meeting the needs she craved the most. She met someone who did start to meet those needs; couple that with the thrill or first rush of lust and the line got crossed. It comes down to communication. In every relationship there are unknowns, elements that are invisible. We're not mind readers (Well, maybe some of us are). If she had told me early on about her attraction to the OM, what needs I really wasn't meeting, I don't think she would have ever acted on it. We would have been able to discuss the consequences of acting and she would not have been as blind to the risk.
jmargel Posted March 2, 2005 Posted March 2, 2005 Cranium.. Exactly!! In my link in my signature I talk about cheating. The foundation to MOST problems are when communication problems exist. You might not even know there are problems because it consists of communication. When that in itself is bad how would you know? Easy. From time to time talk to your partner, ask them how happy they are with you and the relationship. Don't be afraid to talk about deep issues with your SO.
sylviaguardian Posted March 2, 2005 Posted March 2, 2005 Originally posted by cranium Certainly fits the scenario of my wife's affair. I thought I was being good, giving and kind, but I wasn't meeting the needs she craved the most. She met someone who did start to meet those needs; couple that with the thrill or first rush of lust and the line got crossed. Cranium, Just curious, and don't answer this if you don't want to, but which needs were you not meeting if you were good, giving and kind? Syl
whichwayisup Posted March 2, 2005 Posted March 2, 2005 Sometimes, the 'betrayed' partner is part of the problem in the mind of the 'wayward spouse'. They don't cause the problems, nor are they responsible for them - but in the mind of the 'wayward' - their needs aren't being met by the partner. That doesn't necessarily make it the 'betrayed' partners fault - nor should they shoulder any blame (unless they are one of the rare people who are fully aware they aren't meeting their partner's needs and stubbornly and selfishly refuse any and all attempts at compromises for the health of the relationship - but even then, they can't really be said to 'cause' an affair.) The 'betrayed' may not be doing anything wrong, and the 'betrayed' may be doing what he/she considers to be good, giving and kind - but the 'betrayed' can't control how their 'wayward' partner perceives that behavior, nor can the 'betrayed' control how the 'wayward' chooses to accommodate those actions to fit (or not fit) his/her needs. So, the 'wayward spouse' makes a bad choice and steps out with someone else who does meet those perceived needs. I think the 'thrill' is the thing that pushes someone like that over to the other side of the fence. I don't think its always the 'thrill' that motivates affairs, but it certainly enhances them. Were that 'thrill' not there, I wager a lot fewer affairs would happen. Too much risk. The 'thrill' can tend to blind people to that risk. Excellent post LB!! The thing is, why are we scared to actually TALK to our spouses and tell them how we feel? Yes it is uncomfortable and probably scary because not knowing how the spouse is going to react to being told more or less they some major needs are not being met? I know I've had some pretty heavy discussions with my husband recently and it's definately NOT easy really opening up and seeing some hurt. He is so good with me, yet sometimes just doesn't "open" his eyes to what is really happening...Being stuck in a daily routine, work, day in and day out. He does try though and that is good enough for me. Any thoughts on this? Anybody else had to have that 'talk' that maybe things aren't too s***hot at home and there are things to work on? I don't have any intention of leaving, finding anybody else...I don't want anybody else but him...I guess acceptance too comes into play here and knowing that things may not be 'exciting and thrilling' as it used to be in bed but I look forward to those waves when they are.
LucreziaBorgia Posted March 2, 2005 Posted March 2, 2005 The thing is, why are we scared to actually TALK to our spouses and tell them how we feel? Because we aren't always certain that "I will always love you for who you are" extends to "even when you are honest about feeling and saying things that won't be in my favor". Mr. B and I have always kept open those lines of communication that many married couples tend to store away in dark closets in the mind. He and I have shared our feelings about things, our fears, our expectations - and we can talk freely about even the worst of things with each other. I can talk to him just like I would talk to a best friend, and have no fear of him leaving - and the same for him. Its not easy getting to that point though.
whichwayisup Posted March 2, 2005 Posted March 2, 2005 Yup. Just throwing out some questions for everybody...Interesting to see others thoughts. I am lucky with my H that we accept as we are. Not easy but love and life isn't all roses all the time.
cranium Posted March 2, 2005 Posted March 2, 2005 Syl, My wife would say conversation and affection. I'm sure many have heard the same thing; to her I was only affectionate in a sexual way. Conversation, b/c the OM was someone new and there was much to learn about each other. To me, I was demonstrating affection by being Mr. Mom. Since the kids came along, we let our quality time slip and I put a great deal of energy into being available with domestic support, family commitment, financial support. As WWIU points out, we just didn't TALK when we needed to. She didn't tell me I was missing the mark and I didn't tell her either. Believe me, we're communicating now.
whichwayisup Posted March 3, 2005 Posted March 3, 2005 Cran, glad you two are talking and hope it makes a big difference. I find though if any heavy discussions are going to take place, do it early in the evening. Around bedtime or after 10pm just isn't good because our minds are shutting down and not really into taking in much.
Recommended Posts