Why can't women and men be friends again?

[Priv]

Yes, plenty of men will try. Sometimes they have an outburst and can't help it.

 

 

 

 

-The wk doesn't care if she takes advantage of him or even uses him as a rebound. He is focused on getting something

-Yes,I'm very much a brah. There are a couple of us ladies who are genuinely one of the guys.

-I'm being honest. If she's not too old, she's fair game. It's very easy for a man to become sexually attracted to a woman. That's just how it is. Like i said before, he may like her as a person, but the sexual tension is there. That's why I say male friends offer the same thing as a fwb or boyfriend.

 

Aren´t you single and looking hotpotato. Maybe go out and be one of the brahs. Most likely nothing will happen because I agree with fitness that men are no bonobo monkeys, and maybe it does. Either way, is win win for you

 

You have funny posts, so shouldn´t be a problem for you

[Priv]

Also, true story, this morning in the train I dropped my pack of cigarettes or so i thought. Looking back, a very nice woman, I think Turkish, with a very nice smile picked them up for me. I was quite mesmerized by her. 5 minutes later I notice 40 euros missing.

 

So you see. Women too try to get into your pants and are often more successful at it!

Edited July 1, 2014 by Priv

[littleplanet]

I am sorry but I dont believe you. If I was single and continually hanging out with a single woman as a 'friend', and she felt absolutely no attraction to me at all, I would be hurt and offended and feel as though there is something wrong with me - cos If I am such a 'cool' guy how come she aint feeling it?

 

sex ALWAYS comes into play, always!

 

Don't be sorry.

You're free to believe what you want.

I'm an old dude who's been around the block so many times I know every address. (time to move:D)

 

I understand that you build your core beliefs and values based on the life you've lived.

Whether I present myself as the acception to the rule - whatever rules you live by, you live and learn and act accordingly.

I notice the word friend is often "friended" in here -as if it has become something toxic. As if the word "just" must always precede, and the value of its stock tumbles on the market.

Well no-one can declare or decide just what the value of anything is.

The market decides, doesn't it?

 

But no, man. In my life sex didn't always come into play. If it had, I wouldn't have operated the way I did.

I haven't been single in a long long time.

As I've said, when I was in my 20's I would have sat on the fence on this issue. But not since then.

And for me, since those changes, friendships have enhanced my life, my marriage, my soul, my appreciation for and connection with fellow humans.

That adds up to a lot of love.

Only one particular kind of love my missus and me reserve for each other.

And every one of our friends respect that. As we do them.

 

You see - sure, there are a lot of acquaintances. But the inner circle of close friends (both sides) are like honorary kin.

And I've found in my life, that people in that category, when accepted as that, tend to act that way.

For me the final rule was always simple. I got mine. I don't need no other.

So having that rule firmly in place, I can be the best friend in the world - to anybody I feel friendly toward.

Has anybody ever wanted to overstep my boundary? Sure. But they weren't a close friend. (and a gentle nudge in the other direction always solved that little problem, fine.)

 

Maybe a big part of this has to do with balance. My missus and I are of like minds on this. That's why we're peas in our own pod. Maybe we're just too cute - but it all works for us.

I recall past discussions..............when we used to tell each other - that each of us seeing the other admired by someone else.....made us fall in love with each other all over again. As if the recognition in someone else's eyes woke up our own eyes, you know?

And that never worked up a jealous fit. Why? Trust. Eyes wide open.

 

I want to quote myself here:

 

"How I long to tell her, all the things she means to me

She's the Queen of my heart, and that's why my heart's so free

I looked inside the oyster, and found a pearl

Now I'm in love with the most...beautiful woman, in the world"

 

Yeah I know, that's serious schmaltz.

But the part about a free heart.........

Yeah - if I were single or if my relationship was shaky - I suppose I wouldn't necessarily be arguing for the side of the issue I'm on.

I believe a free heart knows its boundaries.

 

Sure. I recall when I was twenty-something, how the word "friend" used to make me cringe (for all the usual reasons.) But that was then. This is now. My personal evolution took me somewhere else.

And the biggest part of how I learned?

My missus taught me.....with love, honor, respect, trust (and knowing she'd commit littleplaneticide if I didn't learn my lessons true!)

She and I....we're people people. We just love people.

Our love never closed us down into a two against the world. On the contrary, it opened us up to the world.

 

But again, that's just us. It works. I wouldn't trade it for nothin'.

Maybe I should slap a disclaimer on it: "Don't try this at home."

But seriously.

You have your own boundaries. I can certainly respect that. I would not presume to foist mine on you.

And if I've given that impression, I do apologize.

Just arguing my side, is all.

 

 

Queen of Hearts

c. 1994 Nightkitchen Music

Toronto - Canada

all rights reserved

[ponchsox]

I think she either wants to a) get back together with you, or b) bring you back into her sphere of influence as an orbiter... keep you emotionally attached while holding you at arms length (and all that that entails). Saying she wants to do the things you did while dating makes it sound like she wants to rekindle the relationship.

 

She didn't say those exact words. She said she wants to be able to call me when she's free (from her kid) and go see a movie, for example. Which is exactly what we did when we dated.

[Ordinaryday]

No they don't. Or not always. I have never and would never use any of my friends in this manner. Use, sadly, being the exact word for what that would be. Which is why even though I'm single and so are they; I never would do it.

 

yes but you are a WOMAN so you dont have to 'use' people in this manner because the way our society is structured is that men are supposed to make the first move, while women just wait for it to be made.

 

men WILL always try to hit on their female friends if that friend is single and the very fact that you are continually hanging around a single man when you are attached, is a bad sign. don't believe me? I dont care!

 

but please dont act surprised when your bf starts acting all possessive and jealous over it, cos you were warned.

[AnyaNova]

yes but you are a WOMAN so you dont have to 'use' people in this manner because the way our society is structured is that men are supposed to make the first move, while women just wait for it to be made.

 

men WILL always try to hit on their female friends if that friend is single and the very fact that you are continually hanging around a single man when you are attached, is a bad sign. don't believe me? I dont care!

 

but please dont act surprised when your bf starts acting all possessive and jealous over it, cos you were warned.

 

As I've already expressed, my loyalty would go in that case to my relationship. If he had a problem with it, I would work it with him and what we were comfortable with. If he needed, he would be invited along to everything, and if he needed we would not do anything alone together. If he absolutely needed, I would go NC.

 

But, so far, my behavior has been so forthright and above board, that none of my boyfriends have been jealous or have had a problem.

[hotpotato]

I don't see that as ruining a friendship, I would see that as improving it. Unless the sex is really bad. Then it's debatable.

 

Exhibit B!

Lol

[marcjb]

As I've already expressed, my loyalty would go in that case to my relationship. If he had a problem with it, I would work it with him and what we were comfortable with. If he needed, he would be invited along to everything, and if he needed we would not do anything alone together. If he absolutely needed, I would go NC.

 

But, so far, my behavior has been so forthright and above board, that none of my boyfriends have been jealous or have had a problem.

 

So what you're saying here is that you enjoy playing with fire. Before you've stated that you don't like to consider what set of genitals a person has when it comes to friendship. By ignoring this very clear fact, you are also ignoring a bunch of other things like feelings. Sure, you may not have feelings for your male friends, but you are not a mind reader and will NEVER know their true intentions until it's too late.

Edited July 2, 2014 by marcjb

[AnyaNova]

So what you're saying here is that you enjoy playing with fire. Before you've stated that you don't like to consider what set of genitals a person has when it comes to friendship. By ignoring this very clear fact, you are also ignoring a bunch of other things like feelings. Sure, you may not have feelings for your male friends, but you are not a mind reader and will NEVER know their true intentions until it's too late.

 

But again, if a man trusts me and my intelligence why it is a problem?

 

And too late for what? Why is it playing with fire?

 

Above and beyond my men friends all having such high ethical standards for themselves that they would rather tear themselves apart than get between a relationship, they also know that to even make a move on me or try to kiss me or anything (if I were in a relationship with someone else) would result in immediate termination of the friendship. Worst case scenario, they try to kiss me. I push them away. And quite angrily tell them to leave, never come back, and never contact me again for showing such disrespect to me, my choice of a mate and my mate.

 

I think this is also part of why they don't.

 

Unless the man in my life doesn't trust me, my intelligence, or my moral agency in the world, again I pose the question...

 

why should it matter? As long as I am on the up and up, which all three of the relationships I have been in, one for thirteen years have proven...

 

Why should the men's motives matter? And why should I doubt them without adequate reason demonstrated?

 

And if they occasionally do have a passing sexual thought about me? Well? What of it. I'm rather sure that many men all around have had passing sexual thoughts about me. I am a reasonably attractive woman.

[marcjb]

they also know that to even make a move on me or try to kiss me or anything (if I were in a relationship with someone else) would result in immediate termination of the friendship.

 

But not if you were single? I think that says enough about such "friendships".

 

And if they occasionally do have a passing sexual thought about me? Well? What of it. I'm rather sure that many men all around have had passing sexual thoughts about me. I am a reasonably attractive woman.

The word platonic has been stripped of the "friendship" right here.

Edited July 2, 2014 by marcjb

[littleplanet]

But again, if a man trusts me and my intelligence why it is a problem?

 

And too late for what? Why is it playing with fire?

 

Above and beyond my men friends all having such high ethical standards for themselves that they would rather tear themselves apart than get between a relationship, they also know that to even make a move on me or try to kiss me or anything (if I were in a relationship with someone else) would result in immediate termination of the friendship. Worst case scenario, they try to kiss me. I push them away. And quite angrily tell them to leave, never come back, and never contact me again for showing such disrespect to me, my choice of a mate and my mate.

 

I think this is also part of why they don't.

 

Unless the man in my life doesn't trust me, my intelligence, or my moral agency in the world, again I pose the question...

 

why should it matter? As long as I am on the up and up, which all three of the relationships I have been in, one for thirteen years have proven...

 

Why should the men's motives matter? And why should I doubt them without adequate reason demonstrated?

 

And if they occasionally do have a passing sexual thought about me? Well? What of it. I'm rather sure that many men all around have had passing sexual thoughts about me. I am a reasonably attractive woman.

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

We act based on what we know, what we have experienced, and what works for us.

We also act upon what our core values tell us is right.

Sometimes universal human rules of conduct are not so universal, after all.

 

I've always believed that the finest aspects of humanity go beyond just pure "animal instincts."

Sure we're mammals.

But we're human mammals.

And that definition is at the core of our evolution.

 

I thought I understood the concept of trust implicitly, before I had kids.

That understanding took a quantum leap after the fact.

 

So people evolve within their own lifetime.

Which is central to this issue.

 

When you are in control of your own actions, it doesn't really matter what people around you do.

"Temptation" is only after all a tired little devil who got left behind with Santa Claus.

 

And friends are friends indeed - when chosen wisely.

The wisdom of choice?

Of course it matters.

[marcjb]

When you are in control of your own actions, it doesn't really matter what people around you do.

 

If a person is single? Sure.

 

If a person is in a relationship? No.

 

When someone is in a relationship, it's no longer just about making choices on your own merit. Any choice made is to be made with consideration of your partner. It's called respect. A respectful partner does not put themselves in a situation which would give their significant other a reasonable doubt. You don't just keep jumping in the lion's den, saying "hey, the lions haven't bitten me yet!".

[littleplanet]

But not if you were single? I think that says enough about such "friendships".

 

 

The word platonic has been stripped of the "friendship" right here.

 

 

 

 

Why should the word platonic be narrowed down into such an absolute definition? (as if measured by scientific precision?) really?

 

As if..........the only platonic friendship that can exist in the world is between two people who find each other physically hideous? Please.

 

"Urges" exist in multitude levels, on different planes of cognizance.

Yet we choose to not act upon them. For all sorts of good reasons.

 

A code of conduct represents a challenge to a thinking human being.

You don't do what you don't do not because an external rule forbids you to do it.

You don't do it because you don't want to.

(And your reasons are your own.)

 

My daddy taught me that at age 10. I was a late learner.

[thefooloftheyear]

Why should the word platonic be narrowed down into such an absolute definition? (as if measured by scientific precision?) really?

 

As if..........the only platonic friendship that can exist in the world is between two people who find each other physically hideous? Please.

 

"Urges" exist in multitude levels, on different planes of cognizance.

Yet we choose to not act upon them. For all sorts of good reasons.

 

A code of conduct represents a challenge to a thinking human being.

You don't do what you don't do not because an external rule forbids you to do it.

You don't do it because you don't want to.

(And your reasons are your own.)

 

My daddy taught me that at age 10. I was a late learner.

 

I guess he also never told you that "people do what you inspect, not what you expect"...

 

TFY

[marcjb]

Why should the word platonic be narrowed down into such an absolute definition? (as if measured by scientific precision?) really?

 

As if..........the only platonic friendship that can exist in the world is between two people who find each other physically hideous? Please.

 

"Urges" exist in multitude levels, on different planes of cognizance.

Yet we choose to not act upon them. For all sorts of good reasons.

 

A code of conduct represents a challenge to a thinking human being.

You don't do what you don't do not because an external rule forbids you to do it.

You don't do it because you don't want to.

(And your reasons are your own.)

 

My daddy taught me that at age 10. I was a late learner.

 

It has nothing to do with physical beauty and EVERYTHING to do with feelings. Once one person has feelings for the other, there is NOTHING platonic about the friendship.

[littleplanet]

If a person is single? Sure.

 

If a person is in a relationship? No.

 

When someone is in a relationship, it's no longer just about making choices on your own merit. Any choice made is to be made with consideration of your partner. It's called respect. A respectful partner does not put themselves in a situation which would give their significant other a reasonable doubt. You don't just keep jumping in the lion's den, saying "hey, the lions haven't bitten me yet!".

 

My missus would have a good chuckle over that one.

In fact - she has enough times already.

 

I applaud you - for pointing out that it is indeed, all about respect.

She respects my fidelity and good sense. As I do hers.

 

Our marriage never killed our friendships.

In a way.....it made them stronger.

As the friendships made our marriage stronger.

We've been reasonably doubtless about our fidelity for quite some time now. Doesn't look like it's going away anytime soon...........

 

Most of this - I didn't really learn very well when I was single.

It was after I wasn't, that the real learning came.

[littleplanet]

It has nothing to do with physical beauty and EVERYTHING to do with feelings. Once one person has feelings for the other, there is NOTHING platonic about the friendship.

 

 

Hmmm. Chattin' in real time here.

 

Ahhhhhh.

I sure love my friends.

And they sure love me.

But obviously my definition of platonic is different than yours.

 

My lovin' friends just don't wanna jump my bones.

Nor do I theirs....

That's not what the lovin's for, you know?

(just not that kinda love?)

bingo!

 

oh - but love can change?

Yeah, it's been known to.

Last time I checked, everything was still tickety-boo.

 

been a slice.

Chores and errands call.

[salparadise]

My sweetie introduced me to two of her male friends today. We all had breakfast together after they stayed at her house last night. I am not threatened... apparently they told her they think I'm hot.

[Sunfire73]

I used to be more friendly with guys, rather than girls. I have a lot girlfriends for sure, but I get bored with the shallowness of what we talk about sometimes. I'd rather talk about sports, tech, current events with guys. Plus I work with mostly guys. But when I met my boyfriend, I don't feel the need to connect with guys anymore, as my boyfriend is enough. What i'm saying is, I do have guy acquaintances, but not any guy close friends that I maintain relationship with. I don't get too close with them not like my girlfriends. What I can get emotionally from a guy as a friend, I can get from my boyfriend. The only time I hang out with a guy, is as a couple. For me, this is simple and less complicated. I'd also want me to be enough for him and for him to not look for anything else from a woman friend.

[AnyaNova]

If a person is single? Sure.

 

If a person is in a relationship? No.

 

When someone is in a relationship, it's no longer just about making choices on your own merit. Any choice made is to be made with consideration of your partner. It's called respect. A respectful partner does not put themselves in a situation which would give their significant other a reasonable doubt. You don't just keep jumping in the lion's den, saying "hey, the lions haven't bitten me yet!".

 

Yes. It is about respect. That is precisely the issue. However, you seem so caught up in the female's respect of the male and his sensitive psyche, and really not so concerned about what all of his suspicion surrounding her and her actions says about how much or really, how much he doesn't respect her ability to be true to her word.

 

And yes, it is about the couple deciding together. Which is why I find it odd that you seem to get so worked up over the idea that the man in a couple might be quite alright as long as the woman he is with sees male friends only in public, for example.

 

But to say that women in relationships should not have male friends simply to assuage that male's own jealous fears, particularly, without making any limitations on who the male can have as friends, is to suggest that women (as I've said multiple times) are somehow intellectually and morally less capable than men.

 

It is about respect, but that respect must go both ways. The man in question needs to truly respect the woman in question, as much as she respects him.

 

And if that respect is true. And if their trust is true. Friends are friends only. And if either partner starts feeling attraction to anyone else, they immediately sever contact with the person that attraction started developing with, confess to their partner, and work to intensify the attraction and connection in the core relationship.

 

I tend to suspect, rather than being detrimental to a relationship, such experiences, and knowing that such an issue could be worked through and did not cause destruction could help strengthen love, trust, and respect between the partners.

[marcjb]

Yes. It is about respect. That is precisely the issue. However, you seem so caught up in the female's respect of the male and his sensitive psyche, and really not so concerned about what all of his suspicion surrounding her and her actions says about how much or really, how much he doesn't respect her ability to be true to her word.

 

And yes, it is about the couple deciding together. Which is why I find it odd that you seem to get so worked up over the idea that the man in a couple might be quite alright as long as the woman he is with sees male friends only in public, for example.

 

But to say that women in relationships should not have male friends simply to assuage that male's own jealous fears, particularly, without making any limitations on who the male can have as friends, is to suggest that women (as I've said multiple times) are somehow intellectually and morally less capable than men.

 

It is about respect, but that respect must go both ways. The man in question needs to truly respect the woman in question, as much as she respects him.

 

And if that respect is true. And if their trust is true. Friends are friends only. And if either partner starts feeling attraction to anyone else, they immediately sever contact with the person that attraction started developing with, confess to their partner, and work to intensify the attraction and connection in the core relationship.

 

I tend to suspect, rather than being detrimental to a relationship, such experiences, and knowing that such an issue could be worked through and did not cause destruction could help strengthen love, trust, and respect between the partners.

 

The respect goes both ways. I never once said that what I stated should not also apply to the male in a relationship too. In my last relationship I never once kept any female friends around, especially not anyone that I was intimate with before. I practice what I preach.

Edited July 2, 2014 by marcjb

[Doubtsforever]

This thread is getting interesting.

 

I, as a women, like having balanced relationships with both men and other women. BUT, I prefer being closer to my female friends, no matter if in a relationship or not.

Why? Well. If I am in a relationship, then this means that he is my "special person", the one I trust the most, my friend and my lover. Considering this, why would I need a close male friend?

And if I am not, I can say that in my experience, I only had 2 real guy friends. I used the word "real" because there was no attraction with them (they weren't attracted to me either). As long as there's attraction, there's no real friendship...

The other guys who pretended to be my friends eventually told me they wanted more than that, so I finished the so called friendship.

 

I can't say I am great at female interactions. I tend to be a little introverted and women in here are somewhat nosy, lol. But I do have some great female friends.

[littleplanet]

Yes. It is about respect. That is precisely the issue. However, you seem so caught up in the female's respect of the male and his sensitive psyche, and really not so concerned about what all of his suspicion surrounding her and her actions says about how much or really, how much he doesn't respect her ability to be true to her word.

 

And yes, it is about the couple deciding together. Which is why I find it odd that you seem to get so worked up over the idea that the man in a couple might be quite alright as long as the woman he is with sees male friends only in public, for example.

 

But to say that women in relationships should not have male friends simply to assuage that male's own jealous fears, particularly, without making any limitations on who the male can have as friends, is to suggest that women (as I've said multiple times) are somehow intellectually and morally less capable than men.

 

It is about respect, but that respect must go both ways. The man in question needs to truly respect the woman in question, as much as she respects him.

 

And if that respect is true. And if their trust is true. Friends are friends only. And if either partner starts feeling attraction to anyone else, they immediately sever contact with the person that attraction started developing with, confess to their partner, and work to intensify the attraction and connection in the core relationship.

 

I tend to suspect, rather than being detrimental to a relationship, such experiences, and knowing that such an issue could be worked through and did not cause destruction could help strengthen love, trust, and respect between the partners.

 

 

This is exactly what I've been yappin' about for awhile now.

It's the big payoff. Wouldn't leave home without it.

(maybe wouldn't have a home without it!)

 

Sometimes true love needs its little biceps exercised.

At parties, celebrations, nights out, weddings, christenings, backyard bbq's, neighborhood block get-togethers, family reunions....and the list goes on endlessly.

Can't swing a cat without knocking over a friend. Thick as thieves.

Makes for good health and long lives.

I highly recommend it.

But then (as I said before) it works for me, understand well enough why it doesn't work for many others - wish it did, world would be a better place...etc. etc.

(yeah I know I probably sound like a 60's LoveChild....)

[iiiii]

I'd find it kind of sad if my SO dumped his female friends when he started going out with me, so that I didn't feel jealous.

 

I would think that:

a) he's a bad friend, so I'd wonder if he was likely to be a bad partner.

b) he obviously thinks I don't trust him for some reason, which is a worry - since I do, and try to demonstrate it by both words & actions.

[marcjb]

I'd find it kind of sad if my SO dumped his female friends when he started going out with me, so that I didn't feel jealous.

 

I would think that:

a) he's a bad friend, so I'd wonder if he was likely to be a bad partner.

b) he obviously thinks I don't trust him for some reason, which is a worry - since I do, and try to demonstrate it by both words & actions.

Even if he's been with them before? Do you really want to meet and hang out with people that he's been with? It's a lot easier to involuntarily picture them together that way. At that point why don't they make it as easy as possible for you to understand what happened and have sex again right in front of you?

 

Otherwise, if it's someone that he hasn't been with, he wouldn't have to "dump" them. They either become a mutual friend of the relationship, or they turn into an acquaintance.

Edited July 3, 2014 by marcjb