Bruce Leigh Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 Logic and attraction? These two seldom go hand in hand. In many cases they are at opposite ends 2
marcjb Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) I've already shared my story a number of times here, but I'll share a very cut down version once again. - My ex fiancé had pretty much all male and no female friends - I gave her the benefit of the doubt right from the start of our relationship - I later find out that she was intimate with two of these "friends" a week before we met (I was ok with the other male friends) - She agrees to drop said friends, which is why I gave her another shot - Relationship is going great, she goes back to school to get her masters degree to become a teacher - Ends up making a new male "friend" at college, and ends up interning at the same school - I continue to give her the benefit of the doubt even though I met the guy and did not get a good vibe from this one just like I did with the two "friends" she dropped before - A year and a half later she ends up telling me she doesn't feel the same way about me, "loves me, but not in love with me" anymore - She admits spending alone time with this guy, studying, lunch, talking to him and confiding in him regarding our relationship, about problems that I didn't even know about, that she didn't communicate with me about before Never again will I buy this BS about male "friends". As Chris Rock says, they're nothing more than "dicks in a jar". Making new friends of the opposite sex while in a relationship is absolutely NO different than to continue dating. Also note what I said before about there being a difference between friends and acquaintances. Edited June 30, 2014 by marcjb 1
Author AnyaNova Posted June 30, 2014 Author Posted June 30, 2014 I agree with all of your posts and you have used logic. I'm sure you tell the person who you are dating about what your plans are ahead of time and you are in good shape. Always! That's basic. They always knew and were always invited. Thank you.
FitnessRN Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 Always! That's basic. They always knew and were always invited. Thank you. If they were always invited that is even better to build trust 1
FitnessRN Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 I've already shared my story a number of times here, but I'll share a very cut down version once again. - My ex fiancé had pretty much all male and no female friends - I gave her the benefit of the doubt right from the start of our relationship - I later find out that she was intimate with two of these "friends" a week before we met (I was ok with the other male friends) - She agrees to drop said friends, which is why I gave her another shot - Relationship is going great, she goes back to school to get her masters degree to become a teacher - Ends up making a new male "friend" at college, and ends up interning at the same school - I continue to give her the benefit of the doubt even though I met the guy and did not get a good vibe from this one just like I did with the two "friends" she dropped before - A year and a half later she ends up telling me she doesn't feel the same way about me, "loves me, but not in love with me" anymore - She admits spending alone time with this guy, studying, lunch, talking to him and confiding in him regarding our relationship, about problems that I didn't even know about, that she didn't communicate with me about before Never again will I buy this BS about male "friends". As Chris Rock says, they're nothing more than "dicks in a jar". Making new friends of the opposite sex while in a relationship is absolutely NO different than to continue dating. Also note what I said before about there being a difference between friends and acquaintances. -always a red flag and deal breaker if the girl you are with is in contact with their ex's..they should build on for the future and not from the past -no female friends...major red flag -Intimate with one of the friends...deal breaker! You should of ran there! -Lack of communication or hiding things..she's out! 5
hotpotato Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 -Not all guys hang out with women and just think about their dipstick...I use logic and would never put a friendship on the line trying to get action. I use logic, not emotions. -If a girl has 2x more guy friends than girl friends, that can be a big red flag. If she can't hold a friendship with the same sex's and says "she's one of the guys" she's never "one of the guys" -One girl I dated hung out with a guy who was going with PTSD problems from the war, I don't see anything wrong with that. He friend was going through a crisis. -Recently, I've been hanging out with a friend going through a divorce. She knows that I wont pursue her and she is off limits. I don't mind talking to her about problems. I've been friends with her for years. We even went Dutch at dinner a few times...man is she gorgeous! Yes, a woman can be just one of the guys to an extent. One of the guys ends when the guy friends get horny. Im a legit female brah, im totally one of the guys, but I keep a wide berth between myself and guy friends in order to avoid their outbursts. Mating and attraction has very little influence on sex and dating. Sex is a major perk of having friends of the opposite sex. Many men are hanging around waiting for a bone. Thats not to say they dont like her other qualities, but the sex is a big motivation. This isnt true for all guys...some are gay... I've already shared my story a number of times here, but I'll share a very cut down version once again. - My ex fiancé had pretty much all male and no female friends - I gave her the benefit of the doubt right from the start of our relationship - I later find out that she was intimate with two of these "friends" a week before we met (I was ok with the other male friends) - She agrees to drop said friends, which is why I gave her another shot - Relationship is going great, she goes back to school to get her masters degree to become a teacher - Ends up making a new male "friend" at college, and ends up interning at the same school - I continue to give her the benefit of the doubt even though I met the guy and did not get a good vibe from this one just like I did with the two "friends" she dropped before - A year and a half later she ends up telling me she doesn't feel the same way about me, "loves me, but not in love with me" anymore - She admits spending alone time with this guy, studying, lunch, talking to him and confiding in him regarding our relationship, about problems that I didn't even know about, that she didn't communicate with me about before Never again will I buy this BS about male "friends". As Chris Rock says, they're nothing more than "dicks in a jar". Making new friends of the opposite sex while in a relationship is absolutely NO different than to continue dating. Also note what I said before about there being a difference between friends and acquaintances. Imo friend is often a euphemism for fwb, lover, or soon-to-be lover. I wouldnt like it if I were dating a man who kept finding so many female friends. Im sure your ex made you look like a jerk, signaling the white knight to swoop in. 2
FitnessRN Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 A few girls ago, I dated ago we were intimate. We cut ties and decided on being friends. I honestly preferred being friends as well as she did. This girl has been "liking" my statuses on FB a few times even with a new guy. It doesn't really bother me. Even if new girls I go on dates with are tagging me in photos, I have a gut feeling it would get a girl jealous especially if they are much better looking...wouldn't you guys agree? I think the moment it comes intimate and cut ties it's game over and the friendship is gone. One side will have feelings for the other one again if contact is initiated (female usually is on the one that has feelings if you ask me). Being friends with girls is a whole different story (if you didn't become intimate). I'm friends with a lot of girls and they even send me hot photos of them in outfits asking if they should wear this or that or how they look. I don't see that being a problem. If they ever have feelings, it's time to cut ties sadly. I've had that happen a few times and when you open up to girls, they tend to fall for you.
marcjb Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Yes, of course she pulled the "jealous" and "insecure" card with me... but I don't understand how I could not have been "jealous" and "insecure" after she tells me she was not "in love" with me anymore, yet insists on walking to the train after work with this guy "friend". We took a break for a week after she "didn't feel the same way". I'm pretty sure she lied to me about seeing this guy and having him help her with a kids show that she was doing, saying it was a "parent". 1
FitnessRN Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Yes, a woman can be just one of the guys to an extent. One of the guys ends when the guy friends get horny. Im a legit female brah, im totally one of the guys, but I keep a wide berth between myself and guy friends in order to avoid their outbursts. Mating and attraction has very little influence on sex and dating. Sex is a major perk of having friends of the opposite sex. Many men are hanging around waiting for a bone. Thats not to say they dont like her other qualities, but the sex is a big motivation. This isnt true for all guys...some are gay... Imo friend is often a euphemism for fwb, lover, or soon-to-be lover. I wouldnt like it if I were dating a man who kept finding so many female friends. Im sure your ex made you look like a jerk, signaling the white knight to swoop in. She sounds like a emotional TRAINWRECK honestly with low self-esteem and no confidence. She may of manipulated him. I wonder if she flirted infront of him to guys..she would be GONE with me. Honestly, when I'm dating, I vent to other girls I'm friends with and it's always good to hear other people say "boy you dodged a bullet." Other thing too is, when you vent to people, you're interest level is already shot. Another thing is after you break up with the girl and you tell your chick friends you're back with her, they will diss you so you better keep your word you are done forever. 1
FitnessRN Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Yes, of course she pulled the "jealous" and "insecure" card with me... but I don't understand how I could not have been "jealous" and "insecure" after she tells me she was not "in love" with me anymore, yet insists on walking to the train after work with this guy "friend". We took a break for a week after she "didn't feel the same way". I'm pretty sure she lied to me about seeing this guy and having him help her with a kids show that she was doing, saying it was a "parent". she's accusing you of being insecure and jealous? She's projecting her problems onto you...sounds like shes a sociopath. 1
marcjb Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 This is one of the more recent threads that perfectly explain why males and females cannot be just friends 99% of the time. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/482967-ok-breakup-engagement They were "friends" for 12 years, just recently the OP ended up sleeping with his female "friend". As far as I know, the female "friend" is keeping it a secret from her fiancé and is still getting married even they she had an affair with the OP. 1
FitnessRN Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Yes, of course she pulled the "jealous" and "insecure" card with me... but I don't understand how I could not have been "jealous" and "insecure" after she tells me she was not "in love" with me anymore, yet insists on walking to the train after work with this guy "friend". We took a break for a week after she "didn't feel the same way". I'm pretty sure she lied to me about seeing this guy and having him help her with a kids show that she was doing, saying it was a "parent". A break means it's over...I would of been jumping in joy. It also sounds like you weren't feeling it but you kept on tagging along. Does her family structure have problems?
marcjb Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) A break means it's over...I would of been jumping in joy. It also sounds like you weren't feeling it but you kept on tagging along. Does her family structure have problems? No, she said that she wanted to make it work towards the end of the year, but when she told me she was walking to the train after work with this guy, that was the last straw for me. I knew that this guy likes her. I don't think she had a physical affair with him, but definitely and emotional affair. Her family structure does have some problems, but I got along really well with her parents too. Honestly, aside from the "guy friends" thing, she was my perfect woman. I did think she was my soul mate. I felt like I knew her right from the start, as well as her parents when I first met them. I really don't click with just anyone. Before her, I did see women here and there, but it was not frequent, and I certainly never clicked with them as I did her. Before her, my last serious relationship was about 7 years prior. I have my doubts that I will meet someone that I get along with as well as her, sans the male friend problem... Edited July 1, 2014 by marcjb
ponchsox Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 A man and woman being friends is like dating without commitment. If you can't handle your "friend" sleeping with someone else, don't be friends. Friends keep each other close for dry spells and to complain about their girlfriend or boyfriend to each other. 1
ponchsox Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 I'm going to attempt a friendship with my ex gf. We dated almost two years and broke up 9 months ago. We spoke for the first time a couple of weeks ago. She seemed very happy to talk to me and said she truly wanted to be friends with me, not just to be nice. She wants to hang out and go to movies and do some of the things we did when we dated. While our relationship didn't work out (we had some different viewpoints towards marriage) we had a great time together and were extremely attracted to one another. I am scared that this friendship will eventually lead to sex again. She has been seeing a guy friend lately, not sure if they're friends or dating, but she seems very happy that I want to be friends. She didn't mention at all that she wants to keep this strictly a friendship. Do you think she did that for a reason? I have zero interest in getting back with her! She's controlling and quite frankly her life is a nightmare (6 year old, baby daddy drama)
Weezy1973 Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Honest question for the women - consider this scenario: Your husband or boyfriend is going through a real tough time. Maybe a death in the family. He says "honey - I'm just really down and need to open up to someone so I'm going to go hang out with my (insert female friend's name here) and be vulnerable." How would that make you feel? 1
Ordinaryday Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 wow guys. Yeah I'm a guy too, and I think I like myself better for being the guy outside the stereotype here. If a single unattached man makes friends with a single unattached woman, and they both stay single and unattached - well then there's nobody to get their shorts in a knot over worrying about who might do what to whom. It's a non-issue. Change those dynamics any way you choose, and all it really requires to stay out of the dog/cathouse is a bit of adult behavior. Telling me it is in my "nature" as a male to practice an agenda otherwise because I'm male is an insult to my intelligence. I'm a big believer in laws of attraction. Those laws often led to powerful friendships. Those laws also kept me loyal. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, and not crossing it. And by my own self-definition, that is the measure of a man. Box me into a stereotype (no matter how universal you think it is) and I will prove you wrong. Not by debate and argument. By how I've lived my life. My romantic career spans 40 years. In the first decade of it, I would have sat on the fence on this. Before that decade was over, I was decidedly in the same camp I reside in now. I don't really care how rare or unusual that camp is. I like the camp. Friends are, and always were, out of bounds. I never had a close friend who I can look back on and honestly say.....I wish romance had happened with that one. And I think the biggest reason why I found this easy - was respect. I never really felt like I was an exception to a rule. I've known many people who live by the same rules I live by. That's why we're friends. I don't think we're some kind of rare elite. We're just people. Ironically, the most powerful ingredient in any relationship I've been in since I was 18 - is friendship. My missus is of course, my best friend. And I am hers. That friendship started 40 years ago. (the romance came much later - at a time when we were both single.) The powerful cross-gender friendships we both had before that, still exist. They are valuable to us both. No cheating. No hanky panky. No jealous fits. The bond we enjoy is based on trust. It has never been broken. Well bully for us, um? Human nature goes against this? (last time I checked, we were both pretty human........) If you can do this, great. If you can't, then don't bother. But the whole idea that it is pie in the sky idealistic nonsense - is nonsense of the first order. You would have to disprove the life I've lived (and the lives of most of my best friends.) A good honest friendship is a valuable thing. All of our friendships enhance our marriage. They do not attack or undermine it. So how and why am I missing the point here? Just lucky? I dunno..... I guess I've reached a point in my life where conventions refer to me as "mature." (but maturity didn't start last year.......some little time before that.) There is such a thing as emotional, moral and ethical maturity. Apparently a woman/girl seeks male friends to feed her ego, validate her insecurities. Apparently a man/boy seeks women friends to enhance his chances for bedmates. And this is all friendship is for. Apparently our subconscious self undermines our conscious moral code. Apparently the pack we run with ratifies this behavior. Apparently we are reduced to angry, distrustful and worldly old souls, who must live by the dictates of some human tragicomedy. I could disagree with all of this. But the life I've lived does a better job of it. I am sorry but I dont believe you. If I was single and continually hanging out with a single woman as a 'friend', and she felt absolutely no attraction to me at all, I would be hurt and offended and feel as though there is something wrong with me - cos If I am such a 'cool' guy how come she aint feeling it? sex ALWAYS comes into play, always! 1
iiiii Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Honest question for the women - consider this scenario: Your husband or boyfriend is going through a real tough time. Maybe a death in the family. He says "honey - I'm just really down and need to open up to someone so I'm going to go hang out with my (insert female friend's name here) and be vulnerable." How would that make you feel? Honestly - I wouldn't care - so long as I had met the female friend, and he remained just as emotionally intimate & invested with me as he had been. I can easily imagine this scenario because my partner does have a good female friend who he often facebooks chats with. I've met her - she's married and I've met her partner too. I often ask if she's chatted to her recently, and he'll say yes, and tell me how she's doing. No need for jealousy. I trust him. I simply wouldn't have any interest in being with him if I wasn't. And I understand I can't always be all things to him - he does need other friends besides me. 1
FitnessRN Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 I'm going to attempt a friendship with my ex gf. We dated almost two years and broke up 9 months ago. We spoke for the first time a couple of weeks ago. She seemed very happy to talk to me and said she truly wanted to be friends with me, not just to be nice. She wants to hang out and go to movies and do some of the things we did when we dated. While our relationship didn't work out (we had some different viewpoints towards marriage) we had a great time together and were extremely attracted to one another. I am scared that this friendship will eventually lead to sex again. She has been seeing a guy friend lately, not sure if they're friends or dating, but she seems very happy that I want to be friends. She didn't mention at all that she wants to keep this strictly a friendship. Do you think she did that for a reason? I have zero interest in getting back with her! She's controlling and quite frankly her life is a nightmare (6 year old, baby daddy drama) I'd run for my life! If she's controlling, and her life is a nightmare...and yikes kids! RUN! I'm sorry but kids are a deal breaker for me!
FitnessRN Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 I am sorry but I dont believe you. If I was single and continually hanging out with a single woman as a 'friend', and she felt absolutely no attraction to me at all, I would be hurt and offended and feel as though there is something wrong with me - cos If I am such a 'cool' guy how come she aint feeling it? sex ALWAYS comes into play, always! No it doesn't..use logic instead of your emotions. Would you ruin a friendship trying to get in somebodys pants..NO! Even drunk...NO! 1
FitnessRN Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 Yes, a woman can be just one of the guys to an extent. One of the guys ends when the guy friends get horny. Im a legit female brah, im totally one of the guys, but I keep a wide berth between myself and guy friends in order to avoid their outbursts. Mating and attraction has very little influence on sex and dating. Sex is a major perk of having friends of the opposite sex. Many men are hanging around waiting for a bone. Thats not to say they dont like her other qualities, but the sex is a big motivation. This isnt true for all guys...some are gay... Imo friend is often a euphemism for fwb, lover, or soon-to-be lover. I wouldnt like it if I were dating a man who kept finding so many female friends. Im sure your ex made you look like a jerk, signaling the white knight to swoop in. -She will surely take advantage of the white knight and boss him around -You're not one of the guys! No girl is one of the guys! -You are being sexist that all guys want sex and want to poke a hole
Ordinaryday Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 No it doesn't..use logic instead of your emotions. Would you ruin a friendship trying to get in somebodys pants..NO! Even drunk...NO! the point is there IS NO 'friendship', not a real one, to begin with because the guy, at least at the back of his mind, has sex as his end game. any woman who thinks otherwise is deluding herself.
salparadise Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 I am scared that this friendship will eventually lead to sex again. She has been seeing a guy friend lately, not sure if they're friends or dating, but she seems very happy that I want to be friends. She didn't mention at all that she wants to keep this strictly a friendship. Do you think she did that for a reason? I have zero interest in getting back with her! She's controlling and quite frankly her life is a nightmare (6 year old, baby daddy drama) I think she either wants to a) get back together with you, or b) bring you back into her sphere of influence as an orbiter... keep you emotionally attached while holding you at arms length (and all that that entails). Saying she wants to do the things you did while dating makes it sound like she wants to rekindle the relationship.
hotpotato Posted July 1, 2014 Posted July 1, 2014 No it doesn't..use logic instead of your emotions. Would you ruin a friendship trying to get in somebodys pants..NO! Even drunk...NO! Yes, plenty of men will try. Sometimes they have an outburst and can't help it. -She will surely take advantage of the white knight and boss him around -You're not one of the guys! No girl is one of the guys! -You are being sexist that all guys want sex and want to poke a hole -The wk doesn't care if she takes advantage of him or even uses him as a rebound. He is focused on getting something -Yes,I'm very much a brah. There are a couple of us ladies who are genuinely one of the guys. -I'm being honest. If she's not too old, she's fair game. It's very easy for a man to become sexually attracted to a woman. That's just how it is. Like i said before, he may like her as a person, but the sexual tension is there. That's why I say male friends offer the same thing as a fwb or boyfriend.
Author AnyaNova Posted July 1, 2014 Author Posted July 1, 2014 Yes, plenty of men will try. Sometimes they have an outburst and can't help it. -The wk doesn't care if she takes advantage of him or even uses him as a rebound. He is focused on getting something -Yes,I'm very much a brah. There are a couple of us ladies who are genuinely one of the guys. -I'm being honest. If she's not too old, she's fair game. It's very easy for a man to become sexually attracted to a woman. That's just how it is. Like i said before, he may like her as a person, but the sexual tension is there. That's why I say male friends offer the same thing as a fwb or boyfriend. No they don't. Or not always. I have never and would never use any of my friends in this manner. Use, sadly, being the exact word for what that would be. Which is why even though I'm single and so are they; I never would do it.
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