littleplanet Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 wow guys. Yeah I'm a guy too, and I think I like myself better for being the guy outside the stereotype here. If a single unattached man makes friends with a single unattached woman, and they both stay single and unattached - well then there's nobody to get their shorts in a knot over worrying about who might do what to whom. It's a non-issue. Change those dynamics any way you choose, and all it really requires to stay out of the dog/cathouse is a bit of adult behavior. Telling me it is in my "nature" as a male to practice an agenda otherwise because I'm male is an insult to my intelligence. I'm a big believer in laws of attraction. Those laws often led to powerful friendships. Those laws also kept me loyal. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, and not crossing it. And by my own self-definition, that is the measure of a man. Box me into a stereotype (no matter how universal you think it is) and I will prove you wrong. Not by debate and argument. By how I've lived my life. My romantic career spans 40 years. In the first decade of it, I would have sat on the fence on this. Before that decade was over, I was decidedly in the same camp I reside in now. I don't really care how rare or unusual that camp is. I like the camp. Friends are, and always were, out of bounds. I never had a close friend who I can look back on and honestly say.....I wish romance had happened with that one. And I think the biggest reason why I found this easy - was respect. I never really felt like I was an exception to a rule. I've known many people who live by the same rules I live by. That's why we're friends. I don't think we're some kind of rare elite. We're just people. Ironically, the most powerful ingredient in any relationship I've been in since I was 18 - is friendship. My missus is of course, my best friend. And I am hers. That friendship started 40 years ago. (the romance came much later - at a time when we were both single.) The powerful cross-gender friendships we both had before that, still exist. They are valuable to us both. No cheating. No hanky panky. No jealous fits. The bond we enjoy is based on trust. It has never been broken. Well bully for us, um? Human nature goes against this? (last time I checked, we were both pretty human........) If you can do this, great. If you can't, then don't bother. But the whole idea that it is pie in the sky idealistic nonsense - is nonsense of the first order. You would have to disprove the life I've lived (and the lives of most of my best friends.) A good honest friendship is a valuable thing. All of our friendships enhance our marriage. They do not attack or undermine it. So how and why am I missing the point here? Just lucky? I dunno..... I guess I've reached a point in my life where conventions refer to me as "mature." (but maturity didn't start last year.......some little time before that.) There is such a thing as emotional, moral and ethical maturity. Apparently a woman/girl seeks male friends to feed her ego, validate her insecurities. Apparently a man/boy seeks women friends to enhance his chances for bedmates. And this is all friendship is for. Apparently our subconscious self undermines our conscious moral code. Apparently the pack we run with ratifies this behavior. Apparently we are reduced to angry, distrustful and worldly old souls, who must live by the dictates of some human tragicomedy. I could disagree with all of this. But the life I've lived does a better job of it. 2
salparadise Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 Some women are just really invested in the idea of platonic straight male friends. [...] A guy friend is often waiting for her to have a moment of weakness so he can mate poach. Exactly. It's not very complicated at all. We're all hardwired this way even if we're not conscious of the underlying motivations. Men are attracted to a potential opportunity to spread their seed, and women like the affirmation of feeling desirable, having alternates waiting in the wings who are subtly courting and competing for first alternate when the moment of weakness occurs. One of evolution's most cunning strategies is the imbedding of strong motivations for behaviors that produce a result, independent of an organism's awareness of or desire to actually achieve the result. 1
Author AnyaNova Posted June 30, 2014 Author Posted June 30, 2014 I am just out of this conversation. I started this thread, realizing that some people with particularly fundamentalist viewpoints on the matter would harp in, but I thought that there would be a sizeable counterbalance of people who don't hold the assumption that essentially, men and women are slaves to their sexual impulses and cannot use their intelligence, moral agency, and creativity to rise above them. To be fair, there have been a small and formidable number of posters who have argued well in favor of strong, non-sexualized friendships between men and women. But unfortunately, a far greater number (some particularly vituperative and unwilling to examine their underlying assumptions and see what is truly lurking underneath) are outweighing the other size both in "volume" and zeal. Because all this thread is serving to do is reinforce highly chauvinistic ideals, I am out. I am not admitting any sort of argumentative defeat. I argued quite well (I notice one particular poster still has done absolutely nothing to address my arguments in any way, shape, or form, all he can do is insult them which says much about his ability or lack thereof to actually address them). A few points, before I go. 1) This male friend of mine and I know that we could view each other romantically given certain circumstances, however, we have not crossed that line and would not until and unless. 2) I don't even see how you can hold that men and women can't or shouldn't be friends without believing that as stated above, neither men nor women are ever capable of exerting will, reason, or moral agency over their sexual impulses (which is such a sadly dim view of humanity that it literally makes me want to cry). 3) You also can't hold this viewpoint without thinking that every man who is friends with a woman absolutely wants to sleep with her, and that every woman who is friends with a man apparently is incapable of appreciating his intelligence, creativity, and personal characteristics, that somehow all she wants is his sexual admiration (patently untrue by the way), or that somehow she is not intellectually capable of compartmentalization, of being able to appreciate these male friends in one way, and to give her highest and most love and appreciation to her partner, and also that her romantic partner is not intelligent enough or capable enough to be able to tell the difference in her. To be able to know by all of her thoughts, actions, words, and non-verbal cues that she absolutely loves him and only him in that way, while valuing the others as friends. 4) So no male could ever have a strong enough sense of his own masculine confidence, his own partner's feelings for him verses her male friends and be confident in the relationship? Wrong. My boyfriend of 13 years was exactly this. And in case you are wondering, I ended it for entirely different reasons, and never once did my male friends cause any tension within the relationship. Anyway, I'm sorry. I'm out of this discussion. I do not wish to perpetuate so many of the highly patriarchal viewpoints many of you still seem to hold. I do thank those on both sides of the issue who argued well, and without insulting anyone or their arguments, who took the time to actually respond to the arguments made. You are what makes this site great.
MoreCoffee Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) I was Arlene's "friend," through four boyfriends. We got together maybe once a month to "hang out" We were intimate, not all the time, but occasionally. Through five years of her life, from graduating high school, the most consistent man in her life was me. I never wanted to be the boyfriend. I wouldn't have lasted. Forgot to mention - all the boyfriends knew who I was and had to understand I was her best friend and wasn't going anywhere. Some suspected more, none knew for sure. Edited June 30, 2014 by MoreCoffee
Author AnyaNova Posted June 30, 2014 Author Posted June 30, 2014 I was Arlene's "friend," through four boyfriends. We got together maybe once a month to "hang out" We were intimate, not all the time, but occasionally. Through five years of her life, from graduating high school, the most consistent man in her life was me. I never wanted to be the boyfriend. I wouldn't have lasted. Forgot to mention - all the boyfriends knew who I was and had to understand I was her best friend and wasn't going anywhere. Some suspected more, none knew for sure. I am out of this discussion as previously stated, but seriously. I couldn't resist asking this. So in your mind, your one experience with one woman defines the whole issue completely? For everyone?
Haydn Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 I think it is perfect normal to have male and female friends. Healthy in fact. In my case they are all platonic and they work. But occasionally a horde of female friends will feel the need to hurl themselves at me usually in the summer months when i am prone wear shorts and tan up a tad. (Terrible joke). But it seems from many here that it is always the man with sex on his mind, not the case at all. Not at all. Nice thead Anya.
hotpotato Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 I think it is perfect normal to have male and female friends. Healthy in fact. In my case they are all platonic and they work. But occasionally a horde of female friends will feel the need to hurl themselves at me usually in the summer months when i am prone wear shorts and tan up a tad. (Terrible joke). But it seems from many here that it is always the man with sex on his mind, not the case at all. Not at all. Nice thead Anya. Men have a harder time being just friends. This is a scientific fact. 1
Haydn Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 Dunno, I am not a scientist but not an issue for me. I never thought about it so deeply before. Most of my female friends date back from school and uni. Some i work with. Men have a harder time being just friends. This is a scientific fact.
SoleMate Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 "So, again, in the context of a truly loyal woman who has mostly friends as men, why does the idea of other men offering their viewpoints and affecting the relationship threaten you more than this same effect from girlfriends, unless you don't think your girlfriend is wise enough to be able to spot if a male friend's advice might have ulterior motives, or unless you think this girlfriend is unwise enough to ignore bad advice given by a man for whatever reason?" I can answer this. I'll grant the true loyalty of the woman and even the lack of ulterior motives on the part of the male friend. Both parties can be as wise and insightful as you wish (with the obvious exception that their wisdom and insight does not alert them to hidden dangers in close, emotionally intimate M/F friendships). So even with the loyalty, wisdom, foresight, restraint, etc., there is a factor in M/F relationships that none of us can fully control or even understand. It's implanted there by 1 million years of human evolution and it's the powerful force that drives human sexual and emotional partnerships and procreative behavior generally. That force, its power and its joys and agonies, are the main topic of this forum! It can arise suddenly and in unexpected places (i.e. someone who is objectively unattractive can suddenly start another person's motor running). It's an addictive and deeply pleasurable feeling and a slippery slope for the "loyal", "wise", intentionally monogamous people who ignore or deny its power. 2
Priv Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) And this is the other extreme that is also simply not true, though apparantly true it is for you. You are reinforcing a widespread belief by both sexes that has no solid ground and is condemning mankind as a whole. It might seem that way reading LS, but hey, this whole forum is about sex and relationships. I can go to any of the subforums and read in the first page more drama than I can possibly accumulate in a lifetime in real life. Reading back this does sound to harsh. Didnt mean to single you out ordinary, and you were by no means the only one to imply this. I just don´t like the implication that man are slaves to their sexuality with little or no autonomous thinking. For what it is worth, I also don´t agree with Anya which in my opinion is at most rather selfserving and the least reckless thinking about m-f friendships in relation to your actual relationship, and posted so too. Edited June 30, 2014 by Priv
somedude81 Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 I have tried doing the 'just friends' thing with girls and it ALWAYS turned out bad.... long story short... what would generally happen is: 1) I would meet a girl who is just coming out of a bad relationship 2) she would make it clear she is not looking for a relationship right now, just friendship, and I would accept that 3) she would have all these problems and dump them on me and expect me to solve them for her 4) I would help her solve her problems and generally act like her free therapist 5) I would fall in love with her 6) I would make a move and she would give me the "hey we are just friends!" rejection line 7) I would feel hurt and betrayed and try to remove myself from her life 8) she would be extremely confused as to why someone she thought was a great friend doesnt seem to want to talk to her anymore 9) she would keep reaching out to talk to me, mistakenly believing we could still be 'just friends' 10) in an effort to get her to leave me alone so I can heal, I would say some HORRIBLE things to her and make her hate me forever. You're doing it wrong. 4) You should not trying to solve her relationship problems. Instead you should be trying to get her to question why she is still with the guy and in the process you are positioning yourself as a guy who is better than her current BF. You must also not become her emotional tampon. If you are starting to get a feel that she may be into you, a great thing you can say is, "..... if you were single, I'd really like to take you out on a date." Somebody on this forum suggested that line to me last year when my ex who had a BF at the time, was being really friendly to me and I didn't know what to do with her. In the end, she left her BF for me. Unfortunately things didn't work out between us, but that's a story for a different day. BTW, if after she knows that you are interested and doesn't want to cut ties with you, that can be taken as a small sign that she is considering you. Stay her friend and keep trying to make her realize that her BF isn't right for her.
marcjb Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 All anyone needs to do is read the stories littered all over this forum. A sizeable amount of them are regarding cheating and infidelity. How do you think it starts? Do you think people just pass by one another, say hi, then jump on eachother? These affairs are developed through friendship and if you actually read the threads started by other peope here, you will see that they are affairs with people who the cheater has been friends with anywhere from a month to 12+ years. Let me know if any such thread examples are difficult to find and I'll help you out. 3
FitnessRN Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 I have tried doing the 'just friends' thing with girls and it ALWAYS turned out bad.... long story short... what would generally happen is: 1) I would meet a girl who is just coming out of a bad relationship 2) she would make it clear she is not looking for a relationship right now, just friendship, and I would accept that 3) she would have all these problems and dump them on me and expect me to solve them for her 4) I would help her solve her problems and generally act like her free therapist 5) I would fall in love with her 6) I would make a move and she would give me the "hey we are just friends!" rejection line 7) I would feel hurt and betrayed and try to remove myself from her life 8) she would be extremely confused as to why someone she thought was a great friend doesnt seem to want to talk to her anymore 9) she would keep reaching out to talk to me, mistakenly believing we could still be 'just friends' 10) in an effort to get her to leave me alone so I can heal, I would say some HORRIBLE things to her and make her hate me forever. in short... men and women can't be just friends! even if there is no initial attraction between the two, if you spend enough time with someone you can grow attracted to them... and when you find out they dont share your feelings, it can turn ugly. don't even try it. I'll answer these I have tried doing the 'just friends' thing with girls and it ALWAYS turned out bad.... long story short... what would generally happen is: 1) I would meet a girl who is just coming out of a bad relationship -If she brings up the ex once..tell her its a turn off and fire a serious warning shot. -If she continues, drop her without mercy..she's using you as a rebound 2) she would make it clear she is not looking for a relationship right now, just friendship, and I would accept that -If she's hurt, I don't see anything wrong with being a friend. You're not a good listener and aren't catching anything. 3) she would have all these problems and dump them on me and expect me to solve them for her -Dated one like that, I felt more like a therapist but I would call her out on her problems...she dropped me and I didn't care ha ha..I told her "well, I can be direct, assertive, and am a planner with a smiley at the end." It probably ticked her off to see hotter girls on FB hanging out with me and tagging me..oh well, I dodged a bullet. She probably is a mess..you can't fix her problems 4) I would help her solve her problems and generally act like her free therapist -Yea she's a mess..wouldn't a independent and strong woman be more attractive than a negative Nancy? 5) I would fall in love with her -huh? 6) I would make a move and she would give me the "hey we are just friends!" rejection line -bad listener 7) I would feel hurt and betrayed and try to remove myself from her life -I would cut ties if she used you 8) she would be extremely confused as to why someone she thought was a great friend doesnt seem to want to talk to her anymore -Tell her you are detoxifying negative people out of your life and need more positive people in your life. 9) she would keep reaching out to talk to me, mistakenly believing we could still be 'just friends' -grow a pair and put her in her place...give her reasons why she's a mess and why you don't need losers in your life 10) in an effort to get her to leave me alone so I can heal, I would say some HORRIBLE things to her and make her hate me forever. -I don't see anything wrong with that, that is being direct..as long as you back it up with facts like "Oh, I don't need to be around somebody who gets hit and quit all the time." or "Oh, I don't need to be around somebody that has low self-esteem and can't be a big girl and handle her problems." or "Oh, you just have nothing going with you in your life because...." Come on buddy..need to be direct and it will be all over.
FitnessRN Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 You're doing it wrong. 4) You should not trying to solve her relationship problems. Instead you should be trying to get her to question why she is still with the guy and in the process you are positioning yourself as a guy who is better than her current BF. You must also not become her emotional tampon. If you are starting to get a feel that she may be into you, a great thing you can say is, "..... if you were single, I'd really like to take you out on a date." Somebody on this forum suggested that line to me last year when my ex who had a BF at the time, was being really friendly to me and I didn't know what to do with her. In the end, she left her BF for me. Unfortunately things didn't work out between us, but that's a story for a different day. BTW, if after she knows that you are interested and doesn't want to cut ties with you, that can be taken as a small sign that she is considering you. Stay her friend and keep trying to make her realize that her BF isn't right for her. No, he needs to get rid of that emotional trainwreck. Let her realize she made a mistake while you run circles around her..please...he can upgrade. Get a new watch, new look, new style, and find a better replacement.
hotpotato Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 You're doing it wrong. 4) You should not trying to solve her relationship problems. Instead you should be trying to get her to question why she is still with the guy and in the process you are positioning yourself as a guy who is better than her current BF. You must also not become her emotional tampon. If you are starting to get a feel that she may be into you, a great thing you can say is, "..... if you were single, I'd really like to take you out on a date." Somebody on this forum suggested that line to me last year when my ex who had a BF at the time, was being really friendly to me and I didn't know what to do with her. In the end, she left her BF for me. Unfortunately things didn't work out between us, but that's a story for a different day. BTW, if after she knows that you are interested and doesn't want to cut ties with you, that can be taken as a small sign that she is considering you. Stay her friend and keep trying to make her realize that her BF isn't right for her. Why men and women cant be friends Exhibit A 5
somedude81 Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 Why men and women cant be friends Exhibit A Ha ha ha. BTW, if you knew my posting history about women and male friends, you'd see that I've always been against girls in relationships having guy friends. Either way, I don't hide my intentions nor do I try to get girls to cheat. If a dude loses his girlfriend to me, it really just means that he screwed up.
Haydn Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 So if you are in a RS you have have no friends of the opposite sex just in case you start to have vivid dreams about the friend? Surely unworkable? People in RS work everyday with people of the opposite sex. (In most cases) All anyone needs to do is read the stories littered all over this forum. A sizeable amount of them are regarding cheating and infidelity. How do you think it starts? Do you think people just pass by one another, say hi, then jump on eachother? These affairs are developed through friendship and if you actually read the threads started by other peope here, you will see that they are affairs with people who the cheater has been friends with anywhere from a month to 12+ years. Let me know if any such thread examples are difficult to find and I'll help you out.
marcjb Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) So if you are in a RS you have have no friends of the opposite sex just in case you start to have vivid dreams about the friend? Surely unworkable? People in RS work everyday with people of the opposite sex. (In most cases) There's a big difference between friends and acquaintances. To have a successful longterm relationship, any friends of the oppossite sex need to turn into friends of the relationship and any "friends" that are not, need to turn into aquaintances or get lost. Any "friends" that someone was intimate with before also need to get lost. Edited June 30, 2014 by marcjb 2
Haydn Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 Ok, now that makes sense. I can agree with this. There's a big difference between friends and acquaintances. To have a successful longterm relationship, any friends of the oppossite sex need to turn into friends of the relationship and any "friends" that are not, need to turn into aquaintances or get lost. Any "friends" that someone was intimate with before also need to get lost. 1
salparadise Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 particularly fundamentalist viewpointsslaves to their sexual impulsescannot use intelligence, moral agency, creativityparticularly vituperativeunwilling to examine their underlying assumptionschauvinistic idealsneither men nor women are ever capable of exerting will, reason, or moral agency over their sexual impulsessadly dim view of humanitythinking that every man who is friends with a woman absolutely wants to sleep with herevery woman who is friends with a man apparently is incapable of appreciating his intelligence, creativity, and personal characteristicsall she wants is his sexual admirationshe is not intellectually capable of compartmentalization, not able to appreciate these male friends in one way, and to give her highest and most love and appreciation to her partnerher romantic partner is not intelligent enough or capable enough to be able to tell the differenceno male could ever have a strong enough sense of his own masculine confidence [or] his own partner's feelings for him verses her male friends and be confident in the relationshiphighly patriarchal viewpointswithout insulting anyone or their arguments One particular poster still has done absolutely nothing to address my arguments in any way, shape, or form, all he can do is insult them which says much about his ability or lack thereof to actually address them Oh please-please AnyaNova, don't take your ball and go home. We promise to pass you the ball and let you score some... but you have to break that double dribble habit. I have honestly never seen anyone get so upset just because they aren't scoring enough. And please don't keep secret which particular poster gets under your skin so badly that it makes you want to quit and go home. AnyaNova, if you'd not characterize every dissenting argument/person in such negative terms (see list above), the perhaps things wouldn't take on such a black and white, all or nothing aura. Nobody is saying that men and women can never have a friendship without jumping each other's bones... just that you can't obviate the possibility by merely saying, "we're to evolved, smart and sophisticated to let that happen." And remember that we ARE allowing for contextual difference... women with many male friends and no female friends engaging in exclusive relationships vs. balanced people with appropriate boundaries who include their partners, and are careful not to form relational triangles with other men. SoleMate did a pretty darn good job at addressing "your most compelling question," and did so objectively without calling names or deriding anyone. The question I am left pondering now is, why do you seem so deeply invested in this argument that you resort to reframing other's statements, calling names, etc., and then get mad and quit when the majority don't agree? The ability to see issues from multiple perspectives with some degree objectively is a good thing. Please tell us why you're so deeply invested. 1
Author AnyaNova Posted June 30, 2014 Author Posted June 30, 2014 Reading back this does sound to harsh. Didnt mean to single you out ordinary, and you were by no means the only one to imply this. I just don´t like the implication that man are slaves to their sexuality with little or no autonomous thinking. For what it is worth, I also don´t agree with Anya which in my opinion is at most rather selfserving and the least reckless thinking about m-f friendships in relation to your actual relationship, and posted so too. I really did mean to be out of this thread, but where my own character and choices are impugned, I really feel the need to speak. Most of the rest of what I am about to tell you, isn't technically, anybody's business but my own. Certainly not yours. However, since you seem to think that I am being "reckless" and "self-serving" let me present you a different picture. First of all, this friend I have who has expressed interest (even though it is none of your business entirely, and I hope that if he is here and has recognized me, that he forgives me for sharing this and understands why I did, and that I only would in an anonymous context) is very obese. I do not lack sympathy. Because of my illness, I used to be too. Unfortunately, much to my chagrin given the kind of man he is, I just can't be attracted to him. Now. 1) In this instance, with any man who I got into a relationship with, I would be honest about this, and completely understand if my SO wanted to be there every time I hung out with this friend. Also, upfront with the fact that any man I chose to be a relationship with is as least as fantastic as this other guy, if not more. And also that no platonic boundaries had ever been crossed. 2) I am also friends with an ex of mine. I would be completely upfront about this as well, and the same would hold true. If my significant other wanted to join at any or all times we hung out, that would be good, right, fair, and proper. 3) With both of those or any of my other male friends, if a boundary did start to be crossed with one of my male friends, as soon as I sensed it, I would immediately tell my significant other and we would work out together how to handle it. I know many would say to cut the friend loose and never tell the SO. To me, that would be an intolerably destructive lie to the relationship. I would be honest about it, and what happened with the friend would be worked out together. If he wanted to be there at all times we hang together, again, that would be fine. In that instance, if my SO felt most comfortable (particularly, since I would have accidentally wronged him) with me going NC with the particular male friend in question, I would understand, and would respect his wishes and go NC with the friend. 4) Some of you might be inclined to say that if I suspect at any point that a male friend has any feelings under the table for me, that I should let them go. Many of you would categorically say, without knowing my ex and I, that obviously my ex wants me back and I should cut him off for his own sake. But that assumes that the men I am friends with aren't capable of making their own decisions, being responsible for their own lives and selves, and making good decisions for themselves. Just as I trust any significant other I am with to guide his own life (unless he himself has expressed difficulty in doing so), I also trust my friends both male and female to be able to do so. I trust that if my male friends are developing feelings that I am unaware of that are becoming painful, they will do what they need to do for themselves. I will not preemptively choose for them. Particularly, because I truly respect their own intelligence, creativity, moral agency, and ability to guide their own lives. One of the last things I am, is self-serving, one of the second to last thing I am would be particularly fond of risk taking. 1
Author AnyaNova Posted June 30, 2014 Author Posted June 30, 2014 I can answer this. I'll grant the true loyalty of the woman and even the lack of ulterior motives on the part of the male friend. Both parties can be as wise and insightful as you wish (with the obvious exception that their wisdom and insight does not alert them to hidden dangers in close, emotionally intimate M/F friendships). So even with the loyalty, wisdom, foresight, restraint, etc., there is a factor in M/F relationships that none of us can fully control or even understand. It's implanted there by 1 million years of human evolution and it's the powerful force that drives human sexual and emotional partnerships and procreative behavior generally. That force, its power and its joys and agonies, are the main topic of this forum! It can arise suddenly and in unexpected places (i.e. someone who is objectively unattractive can suddenly start another person's motor running). It's an addictive and deeply pleasurable feeling and a slippery slope for the "loyal", "wise", intentionally monogamous people who ignore or deny its power. This may be an answer for the overarching question I asked in the OP. It is certainly not an answer to the very specific question and circumstances I asked. Because, unless women are judged to be on the whole less capable then men, why should advice given by a male friend be any more threatening than advice given by a female friend?
marcjb Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 This may be an answer for the overarching question I asked in the OP. It is certainly not an answer to the very specific question and circumstances I asked. Because, unless women are judged to be on the whole less capable then men, why should advice given by a male friend be any more threatening than advice given by a female friend? Chances are the female friend doesn't have motives to sleep with you. 1
Author AnyaNova Posted June 30, 2014 Author Posted June 30, 2014 Chances are the female friend doesn't have motives to sleep with you. But unless the man in the relationship with you doesn't trust you to have the intelligence to take good advice and leave bad advice, and/or doesn't trust you to be able to discern when advice given to you has under the table motives, than it shouldn't be a problem for him. The only reason it would be, is if he holds these views of you. that you can't tell and you aren't smart enough to reject bad advice and might be led to dump his rear end out of your own sheer stupidity and naivete instead of making wise decisions for yourself, no matter who is giving you the advice. Do you see the problem with the underlying assumptions of the man having more of a problem with one than the other? Because I know I want a man who trusts my intelligence, discernment, and loyalty enough that he isn't scared I'll be stupid enough to be led away from him by some conniving guy. 1
marcjb Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 But unless the man in the relationship with you doesn't trust you to have the intelligence to take good advice and leave bad advice, and/or doesn't trust you to be able to discern when advice given to you has under the table motives, than it shouldn't be a problem for him. The only reason it would be, is if he holds these views of you. that you can't tell and you aren't smart enough to reject bad advice and might be led to dump his rear end out of your own sheer stupidity and naivete instead of making wise decisions for yourself, no matter who is giving you the advice. Do you see the problem with the underlying assumptions of the man having more of a problem with one than the other? Because I know I want a man who trusts my intelligence, discernment, and loyalty enough that he isn't scared I'll be stupid enough to be led away from him by some conniving guy. Anyone in a relationship should not be confiding in someone of the opposite sex about their relationship for advice unless its someone that is family.
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