Why can't women and men be friends again?

[littleplanet]

Risk may be a good word for extreme cases, but let's just assume that it's not about risk per se, but more about the nature and quality of the relationships. (although we can't separate it completely––the jealousy gene did not proliferate without reason.) When people are in relationship, the relationship is affected by other relationships (ref. Murray Bowen, family systems - triangulation). What guy in his right mind wants to be with a woman who takes her anxiety and relationship frustrations to a third party rather than working through it within the primary relationship? It's bad enough if that third party is a close relative or female friend, but if it's another male... well, it's obvious so no need to go into it.

 

If a woman has a bunch of male (but no female) friends then it's apparent that the basis of these friendships do not fall under what we'd term strictly platonic friendships. There is some type of sexual component regardless of whether it's conscious or subconscious, or ever actually results in a physical or emotional affair. The energy, intention and dedication that should be exclusive to the primary relationship is being siphoned off and distributed across multiple males. It has to do with her need to be desired by many, keeping backups in place, and having multiple channels for getting her needs met in one way or another.

 

Friendships have some type of basis––hobby, professional, special interest, drugs or vices, etc. People can be acquaintances and friendly all of their lives, but if they're spending much time together there is more going on than being interested in whether or not the other person is having a good day. If no other reason is apparent for opposite sex friends to be that tight, then you can bet your sweet ass that there is a sexual basis... the guy is attracted and the woman likes being desired, or visa versa, or something along those lines.

 

Why would anyone want to put up with this stuff? Best just to chooses people who have more normal assortments of friends with appropriate boundaries. It's hard enough to make a relationship work without the layers of complications.

 

 

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that women should do this. It not about her editing/deleting her male friends to appease. It's about the basic predispositions, the woman's essential motivation for collecting orbiters and why her friendship overtures don't stick with well-balanced people of the same gender.

 

Anyone who doesn't recognize that there is an underlying issue is probably rationalizing rather than trying to see things objectively.

 

 

I have attractive female friends who discuss love's blues with me all the time. It can get rather emotional. A shoulder to cry on, and all that.

Let me clarify. I'm taken. They know it. I know they know it.

This little trait of mine has nothing to do with agenda.

It has everything to do with common humanity.

My missus adores me for it - and has no problem now, nor ever did....with me extending it toward others.

She knows I'm an honorable man. (As she is an honorable woman.)

 

As to those.............'subconscious killer attractions' ??

(o lord luv a duck!)

See - there's a cute little trick I've used most of my life:

I like her to bits! Love her as a brother, even!

But.....she's NOT my type.

("Type", you say?)

Yep. I'm awful picky. I have standards. And especially when it comes to bedpartners.

 

As to those needs being met.

The respect, loyalty, honor, trust, understanding, acceptance.....

of real friendship.

The talk is quite capable of walking, too.

 

I put up with it - because it's brought me an emotionally well-balanced life.

I am no moral superhero.

I'm just a simple man really, who likes people.

People.

(women are people, too.)

People knock me out.

Love them to bits.

(Love my SO in no other way that anyone else can match.)

 

Definitions of well-balanced people can be (and often are) a very subjective construct.

My birds of a feather all sing a similar tune (though the harmonies wander in different ways.)

 

I did not embark upon this life's adventure to rationalize personal weakness and insecurity.

On the contrary - it toughened up and strengthened moral muscles I didn't know I had.

For of course, we are not perfect machines. We are flawed humans.

We can do better (and given fair chance, we often do!)

 

Well balanced people are just that - well balanced.....regardless of gender.

[FrostBlaze]

I currently have two close female friends that i spend quite a bit of time with...i just enjoy their company and i can notice when **** goes beyond that and i pull back.

For instance one of them had BF problems, i consoled her cuz meh i was her bFF and it's my nature to help. After that i noticed she got more emotionally involved in me, calling me sweet names, hanging out even more, as far as asking me to spend the day with her on valentines...and talking stuff.(emotional cheatin)

Having had bad past experiences and i knew where this was going, i pulled back for a while so she can refocus on her BF.

 

All i am trying to show is how easaly one can fall for opposite sex friends that's why it's bad. I try to avoid it but i also can't deny the fact that i enjoy female company more so i have a lot of them as friends ^^...and most of them like me more then "that".

[salparadise]

Why is it apparent? I mean, even if seven out of ten or more of the men have some sort of under the table agenda, even if...If she is good and pure and true to her lover, and her heart, mind, and soul are in the right place and she is only friends with these other men, what does it matter?

 

I reiterate: "...the relationship is affected by other relationships (ref. Murray Bowen, family systems - triangulation). What guy in his right mind wants to be with a woman who takes her anxiety and relationship frustrations to a third party rather than working through it within the primary relationship? It's bad enough if that third party is a close relative or female friend, but if it's another male... well, it's obvious so no need to go into it."

 

I mean in this instance either you have to admit that it doesn't and shouldn't, or you have to suggest that this woman is so incredibly dumb, that sweet and naïve as she may be (in your mind to believe that these friends of hers who are men only want friendship), that these men could easily sway her, talk her out of, or otherwise lead her from her chosen relationship path like a little child offered candy.

 

Your words, not mine, and no, I do not have to admit that it doesn't or shouldn't... whatever. I believe they do it because they have some sort of identity deficit wherein they seek constant reassurance that they are sexually desirable. The male orbiters provide an alternative validation that compensates for their lack of confidence in their inherent value.

 

To me, the fact that if her heart is in the right place, you think that she would be at risk to be swayed away seems to demonstrate a remarkably dim view of women, our ability to think, our ability to make choices, and particularly, our ability to stick with the choices we have made.

 

No, I'm not generalizing this to all women, only the ones we're talking about specifically, and I wouldn't characterized it as you have. And I don't think the motive is consciously ulterior, I think they aren't aware of either the need behind it or how detrimental it is to their primary relationship. I wish you wouldn't try to put words in my mouth. I think I expressed myself adequately in the prior post.

[AnyaNova]

I reiterate: "...the relationship is affected by other relationships (ref. Murray Bowen, family systems - triangulation). What guy in his right mind wants to be with a woman who takes her anxiety and relationship frustrations to a third party rather than working through it within the primary relationship? It's bad enough if that third party is a close relative or female friend, but if it's another male... well, it's obvious so no need to go into it."

 

 

 

Your words, not mine, and no, I do not have to admit that it doesn't or shouldn't... whatever. I believe they do it because they have some sort of identity deficit wherein they seek constant reassurance that they are sexually desirable. The male orbiters provide an alternative validation that compensates for their lack of confidence in their inherent value.

 

 

 

No, I'm not generalizing this to all women, only the ones we're talking about specifically, and I wouldn't characterized it as you have. And I don't think the motive is consciously ulterior, I think they aren't aware of either the need behind it or how detrimental it is to their primary relationship. I wish you wouldn't try to put words in my mouth. I think I expressed myself adequately in the prior post.

 

Okay, so your underlying assumption then clearly indicates that you think that the women who don't think or "aren't aware of" this need of orbiters (which, I already granted was one type of woman who may have male friends) are just not bright enough to be aware of it. you exclude the possibility that there may be many other reasons why women my prefer men in friendships. I know you can't see it, but in so many of your assumptions and reasonings (as well as in the assumptions and reasonings behind those who think similarly on this issue) there is an inherent assumption that the woman in particular either lacks insight, true moral agency, and ability to be trustworthy in her own right.

 

You assume that there must necessarily be a need for orbiters or some other unfilled need of male sexual appreciation.

 

Yet you completely ignore the possibility that perhaps some women might be more compatible in the way that they think and are, with more men than woman, and it truly may have nothing to do with unfilled needs for sexual appreciation.

 

The thing is, you think I am putting words in your mouth. I am not.

 

I am simply reading the obvious assumptions underlying many of your own statements.

 

As per your argument about relationships being affected by, if you don't think that a lot of women talk with their girlfriends and make lots of relational decisions (often, sadly, skewed and unwise based on advice by people who aren't in the situation) from their girlfriends you are certainly mistaken.

 

So, again, in the context of a truly loyal woman who has mostly friends as men, why does the idea of other men offering their viewpoints and affecting the relationship threaten you more than this same effect from girlfriends, unless you don't think your girlfriend is wise enough to be able to spot if a male friend's advice might have ulterior motives, or unless you think this girlfriend is unwise enough to ignore bad advice given by a man for whatever reason?

[AnyaNova]

Some extraordinarily wise and highly intelligent people have pointed out how well humor works to clear the air a little.

 

So I'm going to interject a joke, link it to the topic at hand by pointing out that both men and women in this wonderful modern age have the ability and capacity to enjoy it, and that perchance, could make a good argument for women and men to be friends, that they could share a common sense of humor.

 

So here goes.

 

-------------

 

Heisenberg and Schrodinger were speeding on the interstate when they were pulled over by a cop. Heisnerberg was driving, and Schrodinger was in the passenger side.

 

The cop saunters up to the window, leans in and drawls, "Sir, were you aware of how fast you were going?"

 

Heisenberg quips, "No, but I certainly knew exactly where I was."

 

The cop decides to search the car, having been made suspicious of the men by Heisenberg's witticism. Opening the trunk, the cop screams, "Hey, did you know there's a dead cat in your trunk?"

 

Schrodinger responds in utter annoyance, "Well, there is now!"

[hotpotato]

Why can't women and men be friends again?

 

 

In short, sex.

[AnyaNova]

Why can't women and men be friends again?

 

 

 

In short, sex.

 

Care to elaborate?

[marcjb]

Who said that women and men can't be friends? I don't believe anyone actually ever said this. They can! Generally, and by generally I do mean 99% of the time, they can't be just friends. There will always be one or the other that has feelings, and just by one or the other having feelings it strips (pun intended) anything that is platonic away from the friendship.

 

This article is pretty much common sense to anyone who plans on having a successful, committed relationship:

 

The Rules of Opposite Gender Friendships | Foundation Restoration

 

Note that it's written by a female, who is a professional relationship counselor. Don't forget to read all of the comments below the article as well.

Edited June 29, 2014 by marcjb

[AnyaNova]

Who said that women and men can't be friends? I don't believe anyone actually ever said this. They can! Generally, and by generally I do mean 99% of the time, they can't be just friends. There will always be one or the other that has feelings, and just by one or the other having feelings it strips (pun intended) anything that is platonic away from the friendship.

 

This article is pretty much common sense to anyone who plans on having a successful, committed relationship:

 

The Rules of Opposite Gender Friendships | Foundation Restoration

 

Note that it's written by a female, who is a professional relationship counselor. Don't forget to read all of the comments below the article as well.

 

I agree with the statement about making sure that your significant other is included, and running for the hills if you begin to feel any kind of attraction of a sexual nature (though, when I am with someone, my attraction is for them, it is just how I am hardwired), that is about it.

 

I think, as long as your significant other is always invited to anything that you and your opposite gender friends do, and you keep things in public and on the up and up when in the relationship, or if you are having a movie night in, making sure that there are at least thee or four people total in the house, as long as people exert self-control, good communication, and awareness, why not?

 

To assume that it is as risky or dangerous as the author does, one must make the blanket assumption that men and women both are complete and utter slaves to their sexual desires, and cannot exert any will, intellect, or moral agency over them.

[salparadise]

Okay, so your underlying assumption then clearly indicates that you think that the women who don't think or "aren't aware of" this need of orbiters (which, I already granted was one type of woman who may have male friends) are just not bright enough to be aware of it.

 

I am not basing what I think on some massive cache of underlying assumptions. I have both studied and have direct experience with such women. I certainly do not think it's because they aren't bright enough. One individual who epitomizes this deficit has genius level intelligence, a PhD in micro biology from a prestigious university, and holds a position of responsibility. She is anything but "not bright enough," yet she has such a need which she denies and rationalizes. I am not painting all women with a broad brush (pun intended), I am talking about the subset of women that we're talking about.

 

So if you take the word assumption and replace it with the well-considered opinion of numerous psychologists who specialize in personality dysfunction, and replace your adjectives with the ones I actually used, then yes that's what I think. And as for the rest of you rather lame attempt to contort what I wrote into something ridiculously objectionable, as they say, if the shoe fits...

[AnyaNova]

I am not basing what I think on some massive cache of underlying assumptions. I have both studied and have direct experience with such women. I certainly do not think it's because they aren't bright enough. One individual who epitomizes this deficit has genius level intelligence, a PhD in micro biology from a prestigious university, and holds a position of responsibility. She is anything but "not bright enough," yet she has such a need which she denies and rationalizes. I am not painting all women with a broad brush (pun intended), I am talking about the subset of women that we're talking about.

 

So if you take the word assumption and replace it with the well-considered opinion of numerous psychologists who specialize in personality dysfunction, and replace your adjectives with the ones I actually used, then yes that's what I think. And as for the rest of you rather lame attempt to contort what I wrote into something ridiculously objectionable, as they say, if the shoe fits...

 

I really get the feeling you are not reading most of what I write.

 

You still have multiple underlying assumptions that are really questionable.

 

1) You assume that ALL women who have primarily men friends, have the same motivation as the few women you have seen and/or know.

 

In many cases, men have healthier and clearer communication then women. Women who have clear communication then, would not be dysfunctional in preferring men as friends.

 

I notice you chose to ignore the question that best challenges your position. I will restate it. Perhaps, instead of insulting my analysis of your underlying assumptions, you could either provide evidence that I have misunderstood your underlying assumptions, or try answering the question I asked, or both.

 

I hope you will forgive me, if you continue to argue in bad faith by insulting my best faith analyses of your underlying assumptions, and by outright ignoring the questions and statements that best back up my own argument altogether, if I take that as an admission of argumentation defeat on your part.

 

So to repost the question, which I think you know you cannot answer in any rational way, shape, or form which is why you avoided it...

 

"So, again, in the context of a truly loyal woman who has mostly friends as men, why does the idea of other men offering their viewpoints and affecting the relationship threaten you more than this same effect from girlfriends, unless you don't think your girlfriend is wise enough to be able to spot if a male friend's advice might have ulterior motives, or unless you think this girlfriend is unwise enough to ignore bad advice given by a man for whatever reason?"

[AnyaNova]

I am not basing what I think on some massive cache of underlying assumptions. I have both studied and have direct experience with such women. I certainly do not think it's because they aren't bright enough. One individual who epitomizes this deficit has genius level intelligence, a PhD in micro biology from a prestigious university, and holds a position of responsibility. She is anything but "not bright enough," yet she has such a need which she denies and rationalizes. I am not painting all women with a broad brush (pun intended), I am talking about the subset of women that we're talking about.

 

So if you take the word assumption and replace it with the well-considered opinion of numerous psychologists who specialize in personality dysfunction, and replace your adjectives with the ones I actually used, then yes that's what I think. And as for the rest of you rather lame attempt to contort what I wrote into something ridiculously objectionable, as they say, if the shoe fits...

 

p.s.--Those considered opinions of the Psychologists you reference would then form part of your underlying assumptions, the evidence you use to come to your conclusions.

[hotpotato]

Care to elaborate?

 

Men most of the time don't offer friendship. They are offering the same thing as a fwb or boyfriend.

 

It's very difficult for a man not to be attracted to most women who aren't too old or flat out disgusting. The sexual tension is there from at least one party.

 

I've tried to be friends with men with little luck. I'm a legit "brah," but I don't have a bunch of guy friends hanging around me. It's too much of a hassle dealing with their sex drives and outbursts.

[Weezy1973]

My mom's best friend is a man; that would be my dad. And my sister's best friend is also a man; that would be my brother-in-law.

 

Most people understand that friendship is the cornerstone of most good relationships, therefore if the person you are closest, the person you trust implicitly with your inner thoughts and feelings is the opposite sex, most would wonder why you're not just a couple.

 

Having opposite sex acquaintances, that you hang around with casually, is a completely different matter. But a true deep friendship is a bit different.

 

For the record, I don't know many women who would be comfortable with having a partner who's best friend is another woman.

[gaius]

?

 

If, when in a relationship, all of your interactions with these other male friends is either together (you and your significant other plus the friend(s)), or out in public and your behavior is always above board, how in the world have you made him look like a cuckold?

 

And I can tell you, from being in a relationship and having mostly male friends, that there usually isn't some level of "something" going on when friends hang out, not with me. Not when I'm in a relationship with someone else.

It's just not something that works out well in practice. I don't know a single lasting relationship where the woman is busy hanging out with other dudes, nor do I know a guy who would find it all that sexy if his girlfriend wanted to bring other dudes along when they were going out to do something. It's just not what turns guys on. It's what turns guys off.

 

Oddly enough there was an article today about Mark Ruffallo complaining Jennifer Garner wouldn't be his friend because Ben Affleck doesn't like it. No wonder their marriage has lasted so long.

[Priv]

While I stand by my first post, in that male/female friendships are no red flag, and I believe in those friendships having had some truly platonic and very fulfilling ones, even while in a relationship and on a one to one basis, the arguments you give afterwards are less convincing.

 

Why is it apparent? I mean, even if seven out of ten or more of the men have some sort of under the table agenda, even if...If she is good and pure and true to her lover, and her heart, mind, and soul are in the right place and she is only friends with these other men, what does it matter?

 

I mean in this instance either you have to admit that it doesn't and shouldn't, or you have to suggest that this woman is so incredibly dumb, that sweet and naïve as she may be (in your mind to believe that these friends of hers who are men only want friendship), that these men could easily sway her, talk her out of, or otherwise lead her from her chosen relationship path like a little child offered candy.

 

To me, the fact that if her heart is in the right place, you think that she would be at risk to be swayed away seems to demonstrate a remarkably dim view of women, our ability to think, our ability to make choices, and particularly, our ability to stick with the choices we have made.

 

No, but I would have a remarkably dim view of THAT woman to have the need have over half her friends want her and have a hidden agenda. That is a dysfunctional social circle, and the fact that she is aware of it makes it all the worse, not less.

Best case scenario, you introduce your new boyfriend to 7 little love triangles.

 

I would, but only and ever if I was single and he'd been able to take care of the particular issue in the way. Otherwise he will always and forever only be a friend.

 

When I am in a relationship with someone, they are the person that I love with my entire being. My heart and my soul. And I am fiercely loyal to them. Anybody that can't see that about me, probably doesn't know me well enough to be in a relationship with me anyway.

 

And several of my male friends are gay. I'm pretty sure that they do not, actually, want to sleep with me.

 

Just saying.

 

And someone you have feelings for, which are put on hold while in the relationship.

?

 

 

And I can tell you, from being in a relationship and having mostly male friends, that there usually isn't some level of "something" going on when friends hang out, not with me. Not when I'm in a relationship with someone else.

 

Where ofcourse nothing goes on while in a relationship, but does when you are single. Doesn´t make for good pillow talk.

 

 

So, again, in the context of a truly loyal woman who has mostly friends as men, why does the idea of other men offering their viewpoints and affecting the relationship threaten you more than this same effect from girlfriends, unless you don't think your girlfriend is wise enough to be able to spot if a male friend's advice might have ulterior motives, or unless you think this girlfriend is unwise enough to ignore bad advice given by a man for whatever reason?

 

And she talks to said men about her relationship ups and downs (this is probably how most affairs are started). But about her being wise enough, if nothing else, the sleeper effect which can totally ruin relationship happiness.

 

Sleeper effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Look, I believe you when you say you are fiercely loyal, trustworthy etc. and nothing would happen while in relationship, and I have no idea in how far these arguments resemble your real life and what happened to make you open this thread. But under these circumstances you can put the most secure, non jealous boyfriend in it and at some point he and/or the relationship is going to crack. When I was talking about early relationship problems that tend to get itself sorted one way or another, this would probably be sorted ´the other way´. The above simply isn´t a relationship friendly environment. And that´s what previous posters who I believe all had experience with this kind of thing are talking about.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Priv

[ponchsox]

I've had better friendships with some women than actual dating experiences. Some women are a lot more fun to be around when they are friend zoned vs in a relationship status. They will tell you a lot more, too.

[marcjb]

I've had better friendships with some women than actual dating experiences. Some women are a lot more fun to be around when they are friend zoned vs in a relationship status. They will tell you a lot more, too.

 

Maybe we could set some of those female friends you speak of up with other females that usually only meet women that are "catty".

[Ordinaryday]

I think men generally desire friendships with women one-on-one, because they hope it will lead to more. I think the same is true of women who desire male one-on-one friends. Some men and women will keep orbiters for attention purposes, despite knowing the person has a romantic/sexual interest in them. The problem with opposite sex one-on-one friendships when in a romantic relationship with someone else is also that it fosters an emotional intimacy that can undermine or interfere with the primary romantic relationship, especially when the primary couple is going through a rough patch and confides in the "friend" about his troubles with his SO. Even people with good boundaries and good values can find themselves developing an emotional attachment to the "friend" whom he shares his time with one-on-one. Many affairs have started from initial friendship. I think any opposite sex friends should be kept in the category of couple friends or group friends, rather than spending one-one-one time with them when in a relationship.

 

One thing I will say: even with the 'female' friends I do have who are offlimits cos they are in relationships and what have you, hypothetically if one of them was to message me on facebook right now saying "I thought about it and I really want you, let's hook up right this minute!" my answer would be ABSOLUTELY YES!

 

Anyone who honestly believes that these male 'friends' have NO ULTERIOR MOTIVES WHATSOEVER and desire nothing from her other than a platonic friendship are absolutely deluding themselves.

[salparadise]

I notice you chose to ignore the question that best challenges your position. I will restate it. Perhaps, instead of insulting my analysis of your underlying assumptions, you could either provide evidence that I have misunderstood your underlying assumptions, or try answering the question I asked, or both.

 

I hope you will forgive me, if you continue to argue in bad faith by insulting my best faith analyses of your underlying assumptions, and by outright ignoring the questions and statements that best back up my own argument altogether, if I take that as an admission of argumentation defeat on your part.

 

So to repost the question, which I think you know you cannot answer in any rational way, shape, or form which is why you avoided it...

 

"So, again, in the context of a truly loyal woman who has mostly friends as men, why does the idea of other men offering their viewpoints and affecting the relationship threaten you more than this same effect from girlfriends, unless you don't think your girlfriend is wise enough to be able to spot if a male friend's advice might have ulterior motives, or unless you think this girlfriend is unwise enough to ignore bad advice given by a man for whatever reason?"

 

Listen Miss AnyaNova, you started this little debate by inaccurately rephrasing my post in such a way that made it sound biased, objectionable and annoying, and then attacking the so called premise as you restated it. You accuse me of generalizing. You keep harping on the word assumptions as if that word alone is enough to invalidate any opinion you don't agree with. You say that I am insulting your analysis, and now you're playing the show me the evidence/cite your sources tack. You say that I'm not reading what you write, not arguing in good faith, ignoring your most compelling question. You take that as an "admission of argumentation defeat," as if the burden of proof lies elsewhere and all you have to do to convince the world is toss out a never-ending stream of objections.

 

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. None of this does anything to rationally support your assertions. You haven't offered any compelling argument at all, and the vast majority of posts in this thread disagree with you either in whole or in part. So why don't you put your big gurl panties on and listen to what everyone is trying to tell you... consider the possibility that you could be the one who is in denial, rationalizing, delusional rather than thinking that you have some unique ability to see what the rest of the world cannot.

 

Your most compelling question... "So, again, in the context of a truly loyal woman who has mostly friends as men, why does the idea of other men offering their viewpoints and affecting the relationship threaten you more than this same effect from girlfriends, unless you don't think your girlfriend is wise enough to be able to spot if a male friend's advice might have ulterior motives, or unless you think this girlfriend is unwise enough to ignore bad advice given by a man for whatever reason?"

 

I rest my case.

[Ordinaryday]

Listen Miss AnyaNova, you started this little debate by inaccurately rephrasing my post in such a way that made it sound biased, objectionable and annoying, and then attacking the so called premise as you restated it. You accuse me of generalizing. You keep harping on the word assumptions as if that word alone is enough to invalidate any opinion you don't agree with. You say that I am insulting your analysis, and now you're playing the show me the evidence/cite your sources tack. You say that I'm not reading what you write, not arguing in good faith, ignoring your most compelling question. You take that as an "admission of argumentation defeat," as if the burden of proof lies elsewhere and all you have to do to convince the world is toss out a never-ending stream of objections.

 

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. None of this does anything to rationally support your assertions. You haven't offered any compelling argument at all, and the vast majority of posts in this thread disagree with you either in whole or in part. So why don't you put your big gurl panties on and listen to what everyone is trying to tell you... consider the possibility that you could be the one who is in denial, rationalizing, delusional rather than thinking that you have some unique ability to see what the rest of the world cannot.

 

Your most compelling question... "So, again, in the context of a truly loyal woman who has mostly friends as men, why does the idea of other men offering their viewpoints and affecting the relationship threaten you more than this same effect from girlfriends, unless you don't think your girlfriend is wise enough to be able to spot if a male friend's advice might have ulterior motives, or unless you think this girlfriend is unwise enough to ignore bad advice given by a man for whatever reason?"

 

I rest my case.

 

I don't know of ANY man, ANY, who would be 100% fine with his girlfriend being really close and buddy-buddy with a bunch of guy friends. it is insulting and disrespectful towards him, presents a bad public image (what will people think when they see her walking around the city shopping and having lunch with a guy who is NOT her boyfriend??? they will think she is cheating, that's what!) and finally.... even if the woman is CERTAIN that she has no ulterior motives and truly just wants friendship.... SHE CAN'T BE CERTAIN HER GUY FRIENDS FEEL THE SAME WAY!

 

Odds are they want to sleep with her and are hanging around waiting for her current relationship to fail so they can be there to pick up the pieces and hook up with her after she dumps her current bf.

 

there is nothing wrong with a woman having male acquaintances of 'friends' in the facebook sense of the word, ie someone you message every few months or so, but if she truly wants to continue to associate closely with other guys when she is in a relationship with one guy... something is up! no ifs, buts or maybes!

[Ordinaryday]

Men most of the time don't offer friendship. They are offering the same thing as a fwb or boyfriend.

 

It's very difficult for a man not to be attracted to most women who aren't too old or flat out disgusting. The sexual tension is there from at least one party.

 

I've tried to be friends with men with little luck. I'm a legit "brah," but I don't have a bunch of guy friends hanging around me. It's too much of a hassle dealing with their sex drives and outbursts.

 

I have tried doing the 'just friends' thing with girls and it ALWAYS turned out bad.... long story short... what would generally happen is:

 

1) I would meet a girl who is just coming out of a bad relationship

2) she would make it clear she is not looking for a relationship right now, just friendship, and I would accept that

3) she would have all these problems and dump them on me and expect me to solve them for her

4) I would help her solve her problems and generally act like her free therapist

5) I would fall in love with her

6) I would make a move and she would give me the "hey we are just friends!" rejection line

7) I would feel hurt and betrayed and try to remove myself from her life

8) she would be extremely confused as to why someone she thought was a great friend doesnt seem to want to talk to her anymore

9) she would keep reaching out to talk to me, mistakenly believing we could still be 'just friends'

10) in an effort to get her to leave me alone so I can heal, I would say some HORRIBLE things to her and make her hate me forever.

 

in short... men and women can't be just friends! even if there is no initial attraction between the two, if you spend enough time with someone you can grow attracted to them... and when you find out they dont share your feelings, it can turn ugly.

 

don't even try it.

[hotpotato]

I Think it is hilarious how so many women in the nice guy threads swear those guys have ulterior motives, but none of their male friends do.

 

Most guy friends want to bang their female friends in most circumstances. I don't understand what's so difficult about the concept. This is true even if the guy friend is old enough to be her father or grandfather.

 

Even if he says he doesn't, he probably does. Those feelings don't just disappear.

 

Some women are just really invested in the idea of platonic straight male friends.

 

IMO it's projection. Maybe they can sit next to a remotely attractive man and not get hot and bothered, but it's more difficult for a man to do the same.

 

A guy friend is often waiting for her to have a moment of weakness so he can mate poach.

[Ordinaryday]

Most guy friends want to bang their female friends in most circumstances. I don't understand what's so difficult about the concept. This is true even if the guy friend is old enough to be her father or grandfather.

 

Even if he says he doesn't, he probably does. Those feelings don't just disappear.

 

Some women are just really invested in the idea of platonic straight male friends.

 

IMO it's projection. Maybe they can sit next to a remotely attractive man and not get hot and bothered, but it's more difficult for a man to do the same.

 

A guy friend is often waiting for her to have a moment of weakness so he can mate poach.

 

 

it's true, I can vouch for this as a guy! and even the girls who are now offlimits cos they are in relationships or whatever, like I said before... even though I am not trying to hit on them cos they are offlimits... if they texted me right now saying they broke up with their partner and would I be there to 'comfort' them I WOULD SAY YES IN A SECOND!

 

Sex is ALWAYS at the back of a guy's mind, ALWAYS!

[Priv]

it's true, I can vouch for this as a guy! and even the girls who are now offlimits cos they are in relationships or whatever, like I said before... even though I am not trying to hit on them cos they are offlimits... if they texted me right now saying they broke up with their partner and would I be there to 'comfort' them I WOULD SAY YES IN A SECOND!

 

Sex is ALWAYS at the back of a guy's mind, ALWAYS!

 

And this is the other extreme that is also simply not true, though apparantly true it is for you. You are reinforcing a widespread belief by both sexes that has no solid ground and is condemning mankind as a whole.

 

It might seem that way reading LS, but hey, this whole forum is about sex and relationships. I can go to any of the subforums and read in the first page more drama than I can possibly accumulate in a lifetime in real life.