My experience as a male virgin

[Camaro Guy]

I was doing some thinking the other and for some reason, my thoughts kept coming back to Elliot Rodger. "Why do I keep thinking about him?!?" The guy murdered people senselessly and he was a narcissistic psychopath. What's more to think about him? Then I dug deeper and I realized it wasn't him I was thinking about but what part of him represented. I created this so that people can understand where people like me are coming from and why we tend to obsess about sex. This can in a way count for inexperienced men too. I am also typing this as a cathartic release.

 

As we all know, Rodger was a 22 year old virgin. He was one year younger than me. When news broke about the circumstances behind his killing and his background, I found myself start to relate to him in a very disturbing way. He was ostracized by his peers growing up, he wasn't the ladies' choice, he was made fun of by girls and guys alike, and female affection was pretty important to him. As the days went on, I saw a bunch of other guys come up to the plate on places like Reddit and saw that they could relate to him as well and they hated it.

 

I would never admit that I'm a 23 year old virgin in real life due to the fact that pretty much all of my friends have had success and luck with women throughout their lives. My circumstances were that went to an all boys' high school. I was made fun of by other guys for being weaker and not the best looking. A lot of other guys did and had sex and got experience talking and conversion with girls during that period. I thought things would change in college. I was scared to death of girls my freshman year and I viewed them as alien creatures that I couldn't in any possibly way relate to. I was amazed that guys could hook up with and talk to them so regularly. I had a couple of bad experiences with girls in freshman year when I tried to get closer to them. It pretty much demoralized me even further heading into sophomore year.

 

In round table discussions about girls I would just remain silent. Or I would make up stories about how I hooked up with girls in the summer but not at school because I didn't want to see them again. Each lie killed me more inside. With sophomore year a bust sexually, I then started going into a depression. From then on out, I started looking for sure-shot things that would get girls attracted to me. I started getting into pickup artistry (PUA). I took what these guys said as gospel. Yet none of it worked. Junior year was a failure.

 

The summer before senior year, I got heavily and more entrenched into PUA and "game". I eventually came across this guy named "Zyzz" who had a similar background to mine. He inspired me and I hit the gym. It was painful at first. I wanted to quit several times. Then I thought about how I would get a body that the girls would "mire" and the guys would be "jelly" of. I considered myself a worthless loser in high school and that I would somehow get "revenge" socially on all the people who made fun of me. I tried to become the perfect man. Well read. Well dressed. Socially acute, never saying the wrong thing. Made sure my face was the best looking it could be, with no blemishes. Building more muscles. With that and PUA and "game", I couldn't fail. I would get laid this year. For sure. It didn't happen. I will say that I thank people like "Zyzz" for getting me into working out, it is something I continue to do to this day because I love it.

 

The closing days of senior year found me in deep depression as college was closing and I didn't have the quintessential college experience of being with girls. I was still in the same place as I was when I came in four years ago. Now real life was approaching and girls would expect you to be experienced either sexually or with relationships. I kept a smiling face throughout these days but I was lying to everyone (again).

 

People started to ask me "so do you have a girlfriend" or "do you have anyone special" and I would say no. I confided in a couple of people that I trust and they all said variants of the same thing: don't tell her. I started to get down. Seeing reminders of what you didn't have around every corner, feeling as if you're lesser than, not knowing when it will end. The most confident (a trait girls are attracted to) guys are those who have slept with a lot or a decent amount of girls. In the teenage years, girls expect guys to be fumbly, not in the adult years.

 

I hope this shed some light on what people like me may be feeling when people say it's "not a big deal". I've felt like the world's been pressing on my shoulders when this topic comes up. I realize not every male virgin can relate to me but I think the feelings are consistent throughout. Feeling of being left out, missing out, being unattractive, confusion. being in limbo, anxiety, etc. Sex isn't everything but it's certainly not the miniscule deal people think it is.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Camaro Guy

[Targetlock]

I was doing some thinking the other and for some reason, my thoughts kept coming back to Elliot Rodger. "Why do I keep thinking about him?!?" The guy murdered people senselessly and he was a narcissistic psychopath. What's more to think about him? Then I dug deeper and I realized it wasn't him I was thinking about but what part of him represented. I created this so that people can understand where people like me are coming from and why we tend to obsess about sex. This can in a way count for inexperienced men too. I am also typing this as a cathartic release.

 

As we all know, Rodger was a 22 year old virgin. He was one year younger than me. When news broke about the circumstances behind his killing and his background, I found myself start to relate to him in a very disturbing way. He was ostracized by his peers growing up, he wasn't the ladies' choice, he was made fun of by girls and guys alike, and female affection was pretty important to him. As the days went on, I saw a bunch of other guys come up to the plate on places like Reddit and saw that they could relate to him as well and they hated it.

 

I would never admit that I'm a 23 year old virgin in real life due to the fact that pretty much all of my friends have had success and luck with women throughout their lives. My circumstances were that went to an all boys' high school. I was made fun of by other guys for being weaker and not the best looking. A lot of other guys did and had sex and got experience talking and conversion with girls during that period. I thought things would change in college. I was scared to death of girls my freshman year and I viewed them as alien creatures that I couldn't in any possibly way relate to. I was amazed that guys could hook up with and talk to them so regularly. I had a couple of bad experiences with girls in freshman year when I tried to get closer to them. It pretty much demoralized me even further heading into sophomore year.

 

In round table discussions about girls I would just remain silent. Or I would make up stories about how I hooked up with girls in the summer but not at school because I didn't want to see them again. Each lie killed me more inside. With sophomore year a bust sexually, I then started going into a depression. From then on out, I started looking for sure-shot things that would get girls attracted to me. I started getting into pickup artistry (PUA). I took what these guys said as gospel. Yet none of it worked. Junior year was a failure.

 

The summer before senior year, I got heavily and more entrenched into PUA and "game". I eventually came across this guy named "Zyzz" who had a similar background to mine. He inspired me and I hit the gym. It was painful at first. I wanted to quit several times. Then I thought about how I would get a body that the girls would "mire" and the guys would be "jelly" of. I considered myself a worthless loser in high school and that I would somehow get "revenge" socially on all the people who made fun of me. I tried to become the perfect man. Well read. Well dressed. Socially acute, never saying the wrong thing. Made sure my face was the best looking it could be, with no blemishes. Building more muscles. With that and PUA and "game", I couldn't fail. I would get laid this year. For sure. It didn't happen. I will say that I thank people like "Zyzz" for getting me into working out, it is something I continue to do to this day because I love it.

 

The closing days of senior year found me in deep depression as college was closing and I didn't have the quintessential college experience of being with girls. I was still in the same place as I was when I came in four years ago. Now real life was approaching and girls would expect you to be experienced either sexually or with relationships. I kept a smiling face throughout these days but I was lying to everyone (again).

 

People started to ask me "so do you have a girlfriend" or "do you have anyone special" and I would say no. I confided in a couple of people that I trust and they all said variants of the same thing: don't tell her. I started to get down. Seeing reminders of what you didn't have around every corner, feeling as if you're lesser than, not knowing when it will end. The most confident (a trait girls are attracted to) guys are those who have slept with a lot or a decent amount of girls. In the teenage years, girls expect guys to be fumbly, not in the adult years.

 

I hope this shed some light on what people like me may be feeling when people say it's "not a big deal". I've felt like the world's been pressing on my shoulders when this topic comes up. I realize not every male virgin can relate to me but I think the feelings are consistent throughout. Feeling of being left out, missing out, being unattractive, confusion. being in limbo, anxiety, etc. Sex isn't everything but it's certainly not the miniscule deal people think it is.

 

Yes i can relate this last part, i feel the same way, i just keep telling myself that its because i've been missing that special ingredient: her! that special someone or the right opportunity. and yes it is depressing and stressful, especially when people pester us about it and society is so fixated that us male virgins are 'weird' and that we are judged unfairly because of it like we are 'weak' or 'weird'.

[dragon_fly_7]

Personally, I see nothing attractive about a guy that slept around with tons of women no matter how good looking he is. I would walk away if a man told me he slept around on a date. That would tell me we're uncompatible in sexual values and he's not even selective at all.

 

A confident man to me doesn't really need to be in the double-digit but someone that's an ''in a relationship only'' type.

Edited June 27, 2014 by dragon_fly_7

[Targetlock]

To me its not the quantity of relationships but the quality, if i had just one great relationship that lasted the rest of my of life that would be me happy and that for me would be winning the crazy game of love but i always was a romantic!

[DarkKnight1]

Id Say Just Keep Working On Yourself You Dont Need To Be Weak Minded Like That Elliot Rodger. I Personally Havent Slept With Dozens of females like people around me and feel like i want to inside getting frustrated to a degree but i just keep working on myself to attract what i truly want rather than what everybody else is doing and society itself is becoming a joke with all these expectations and demands because majority of people go for that collective mindset rather than actually question it. I think of change in perception and visualization are vital to all life manifestations.

 

peace

[haribogumsnickers]

You're not alone bud. Just remember not to put the vag on a pedestal. Be happy with yourself and find some cool hobbies. You're good if you drive a camaro.

[thefooloftheyear]

Personally, I see nothing attractive about a guy that slept around with tons of women no matter how good looking he is. I would walk away if a man told me he slept around on a date. That would tell me we're uncompatible in sexual values and he's not even selective at all.

 

A confident man to me doesn't really need to be in the double-digit but someone that's an ''in a relationship only'' type.

 

You'd never know....In the same way a guy wouldnt know that a woman gang banged the entire football team...

 

TFY

[carhill]

OP, would you 'obsess about sex' if not for the machinations of your peer group/demographic? Good question to ask, about the age-old impulse to 'fit in'.

 

My only answer, having walked the path, is that you have to go through it. If/when such thoughts get you down, yep, they do. Accept that and carry on. Tomorrow is another day. They seem plentiful and 'forever' at 23 but they aren't, really, for any of us. Just as easily as you could die an old man in your bed you could have been a male victim of the man you mentioned in your OP. Snuffed out for no reason. That's why it's important to take each day and value it. One never knows.

[ThaWholigan]

Your experience is not much different from mine, I went through the longing and wanting to be like all my friends and brothers who found it easy to get laid.

 

It changed when I reaffirmed what was most important to me, and when I started to view my experience (or lack of) in a different light. I can remember the awkwardness though and its tougher than others realise, I understand. Acceptance and perseverance will need to be good friends of yours.

 

I'd type more but I'm on my phone......

[irc333]

I am curious why it was so important to you to have sex before the age of 18?? Before graduating high school?

 

 

I was doing some thinking the other and for some reason, my thoughts kept coming back to Elliot Rodger. "Why do I keep thinking about him?!?" The guy murdered people senselessly and he was a narcissistic psychopath. What's more to think about him? Then I dug deeper and I realized it wasn't him I was thinking about but what part of him represented. I created this so that people can understand where people like me are coming from and why we tend to obsess about sex. This can in a way count for inexperienced men too. I am also typing this as a cathartic release.

 

As we all know, Rodger was a 22 year old virgin. He was one year younger than me. When news broke about the circumstances behind his killing and his background, I found myself start to relate to him in a very disturbing way. He was ostracized by his peers growing up, he wasn't the ladies' choice, he was made fun of by girls and guys alike, and female affection was pretty important to him. As the days went on, I saw a bunch of other guys come up to the plate on places like Reddit and saw that they could relate to him as well and they hated it.

 

I would never admit that I'm a 23 year old virgin in real life due to the fact that pretty much all of my friends have had success and luck with women throughout their lives. My circumstances were that went to an all boys' high school. I was made fun of by other guys for being weaker and not the best looking. A lot of other guys did and had sex and got experience talking and conversion with girls during that period. I thought things would change in college. I was scared to death of girls my freshman year and I viewed them as alien creatures that I couldn't in any possibly way relate to. I was amazed that guys could hook up with and talk to them so regularly. I had a couple of bad experiences with girls in freshman year when I tried to get closer to them. It pretty much demoralized me even further heading into sophomore year.

 

In round table discussions about girls I would just remain silent. Or I would make up stories about how I hooked up with girls in the summer but not at school because I didn't want to see them again. Each lie killed me more inside. With sophomore year a bust sexually, I then started going into a depression. From then on out, I started looking for sure-shot things that would get girls attracted to me. I started getting into pickup artistry (PUA). I took what these guys said as gospel. Yet none of it worked. Junior year was a failure.

 

The summer before senior year, I got heavily and more entrenched into PUA and "game". I eventually came across this guy named "Zyzz" who had a similar background to mine. He inspired me and I hit the gym. It was painful at first. I wanted to quit several times. Then I thought about how I would get a body that the girls would "mire" and the guys would be "jelly" of. I considered myself a worthless loser in high school and that I would somehow get "revenge" socially on all the people who made fun of me. I tried to become the perfect man. Well read. Well dressed. Socially acute, never saying the wrong thing. Made sure my face was the best looking it could be, with no blemishes. Building more muscles. With that and PUA and "game", I couldn't fail. I would get laid this year. For sure. It didn't happen. I will say that I thank people like "Zyzz" for getting me into working out, it is something I continue to do to this day because I love it.

 

The closing days of senior year found me in deep depression as college was closing and I didn't have the quintessential college experience of being with girls. I was still in the same place as I was when I came in four years ago. Now real life was approaching and girls would expect you to be experienced either sexually or with relationships. I kept a smiling face throughout these days but I was lying to everyone (again).

 

People started to ask me "so do you have a girlfriend" or "do you have anyone special" and I would say no. I confided in a couple of people that I trust and they all said variants of the same thing: don't tell her. I started to get down. Seeing reminders of what you didn't have around every corner, feeling as if you're lesser than, not knowing when it will end. The most confident (a trait girls are attracted to) guys are those who have slept with a lot or a decent amount of girls. In the teenage years, girls expect guys to be fumbly, not in the adult years.

 

I hope this shed some light on what people like me may be feeling when people say it's "not a big deal". I've felt like the world's been pressing on my shoulders when this topic comes up. I realize not every male virgin can relate to me but I think the feelings are consistent throughout. Feeling of being left out, missing out, being unattractive, confusion. being in limbo, anxiety, etc. Sex isn't everything but it's certainly not the miniscule deal people think it is.

[ThaWholigan]

I am curious why it was so important to you to have sex before the age of 18?? Before graduating high school?

Probably because everybody else did.

 

Most of my close peers lost theirs at 13-16. In contrast, I lost mine just before 24.

[carhill]

I am curious why it was so important to you to have sex before the age of 18?? Before graduating high school?

Peer pressure and fitting in during peer integration. People develop peer reputations, which continue to form and evolve throughout life.

 

For example, I have a male friend who just turned 52 and has never been married and rarely has had a girlfriend. Gossip about his sexual proclivities and/or orientation always seem to crop up. That's peer pressure and peer integration. If he had been 'normal', had sex as a teen, gotten married at 20 like most other guys, popped out a couple kids, had an affair, gotten divorced, gotten married again, had a few grandchildren, etc, etc, no one would say a word. Why? Because that's 'normal' around here. Peer acceptance. If one is outlier, being accepted is a lot more problematical. Since most normal humans are social creatures, being accepted by one's fellow humans is important to most of us.

[irc333]

If one is outlier, being accepted is a lot more problematical.

 

Carhill, I think that is part of my "problem" with dating or just the ability to make few friends that share my lifestyle and morality. I mean, I don't get on my high horse or anything, but once someone finds out I don't drink or have never had sex in my teen years or at least in a hotel bedroom after prom, they look at me with such oddness.

 

Hell, I had people question the fact that I do NOT drink in excess, but except nurse a couple of beers or drinks throughout the duration of a party. Some have taken notice of this and with those that don't drink at all proclaim:

 

"I will NEVER trust someone who does not drink!!"

 

Not sure where that mindset has come from, but it's like reverse immorality (or morality) has turned it's tables.

 

Back in the say, if a woman was divorced, other married people in her community would whisper, make gossip, or even make "digs" in her direction about her inability to keep work on a marriage.

 

Now, unfortunately, being married and divorced even TWICE is considered the norm.

 

It's like they are judging YOU judging THEM. LOL

 

My parents had an influence on me when I was in high school. They struck the fear in me not to partake in sexual acts as a teenager in high school and when they found out about a neighbor's teen that got knocked-up or something, I'd always hear something from them.

 

"Yeah, looks like Suzie has slept with the entire football team, now look where it's gotten her! Gee, I wonder which one is the father??"

 

Of course, they don't make such remarks directly to the person, but it's always uttered behind closed doors.

 

 

Peer pressure and fitting in during peer integration. People develop peer reputations, which continue to form and evolve throughout life.

 

For example, I have a male friend who just turned 52 and has never been married and rarely has had a girlfriend. Gossip about his sexual proclivities and/or orientation always seem to crop up. That's peer pressure and peer integration. If he had been 'normal', had sex as a teen, gotten married at 20 like most other guys, popped out a couple kids, had an affair, gotten divorced, gotten married again, had a few grandchildren, etc, etc, no one would say a word. Why? Because that's 'normal' around here. Peer acceptance. If one is outlier, being accepted is a lot more problematical. Since most normal humans are social creatures, being accepted by one's fellow humans is important to most of us.

[irc333]

I often wonder for those who didn't experience sex in high school, and weren't under the influence of peer pressure, and was the "outlier" , would this carry over into their adult life? (Well, the OP kind of proves that).

 

I have known freshmen cheer leaders to only date male seniors because they were attracted to the "maturity" of them. In fact, I've known them to not date high school boys and date college-aged men due to the maturity levels there.

 

Yes, they started young, sometimes I think too young, but I never had a romantic interest in women when I was a freshman, sure I found myself attracted to them, but the whole "giving my high school letterman jacket to a cheer leader" was something I was never even close to getting to.

[AnyaNova]

I hope this shed some light on what people like me may be feeling when people say it's "not a big deal". I've felt like the world's been pressing on my shoulders when this topic comes up. I realize not every male virgin can relate to me but I think the feelings are consistent throughout. Feeling of being left out, missing out, being unattractive, confusion. being in limbo, anxiety, etc. Sex isn't everything but it's certainly not the miniscule deal people think it is.

 

This post really stood out to me.

 

First of all, most people who end up committing even the worst acts, are not depraved psychopaths or sociopaths with no conscience. So please, do not beat yourself up for finding similarities or feeling like you somehow understand him.

 

In fact, I strongly suspect that in most cases, there is more to be gained in society, in general, from empathizing with individuals who do commit even the worst acts, to try to understand what events and thoughts led up to the act, so we can try and prevent those same circumstances and try and alter destructive thought patterns, than there is to be gained from staunchly separating ourselves and refusing to see any similarity.

 

I think, part of the problem, is that you are automatically choosing to believe society's construction and interpretation, and believe that the fact that you haven't found anyone, yet, must be some kind of repudiation of you.

 

Clearly, you tend to analyze things and act with logical, systematic, and global approaches.

 

But there are so many more interpretations or possibilities for why you haven't had sex yet, that don't lead to anything being wrong with you.

 

Perhaps, it wouldn't surprise me, if intrinsically you have a strong need to have women with whom you would think of having sex with, be highly intelligent as well. And the thing is, even if at this point you'd still be willing to have sex with an unintelligent woman just to have sex, if you have an unconscious disdain for women who aren't as intelligent as you are (and it may or may not actually be something you are aware of) they may sense this a mile off and avoid you because of it).

 

Perhaps your story is different. Perhaps, instead of having sex as a teen and then getting married (and possibly divorced) early, perhaps your story is that you have very specific standards and desires. Perhaps you don't meet the woman who really works with you until you are 30 or 35.

 

Perhaps it is not simply that there is something wrong with you, but you have high internal standards for qualities other than the physical.

 

Perhaps because it took longer to find someone and you were older and more mature when you found them, you have a stronger love and compatibility and a much happier life than many who don't wait so long.

 

But the important takeaway is this: Like so often in life, it is really much less a matter of what happens to you, as it is in how you interpret what happens to you. Because you could choose to view it that when you find love, it will be all the better for having waited for it, or whatever explanation suits you and your mindset best.

 

But you do have a choice in what to believe, and whether or not it reflects negatively on you.

 

------

 

p.s.--one last thought, though traumatic enough life circumstances can bring on depressions, my thoughts are that your depression came first, and then your mind reached for an explanation for it, and came to this one.

 

Your depression, more than anything, might also be hindering your ability with women. That is not your fault, but I would definitely see a doctor to first rule out all nutritional, thyroid, adrenal, or any other possible physical conditions that can cause it, and then see about treatment if the depression is primary.

[carhill]

Though I don't consider the OP to be an 'advanced' virgin at the age of 23, he may be bumping up against something I dealt with in my 20's, that being behaviors of a male virgin being ostensibly different than those of men that age who are sexually experienced and that familiarity with those majority of men, when meeting an outlier, causing confusion in the lady experiencing it, with the confused mind saying 'no', as is customary for most humans. Something, or someone, seems 'odd', so we avoid it or them.

 

I ran into this most often while dating from not progressing romantic interest to sex quickly enough, simply because the local ladies were used to that and my outlier behavior caused them to instinctively feel I wasn't interested sexually. Words didn't matter (we often talked about it) because they *felt* something was off and that feeling caused a 'no' to continuing, especially in light of other men giving them the customary and usual signals, which felt more comfortable and familiar. I may have opined they were moving 'too fast' at the time but now I see it for what it was; I was outlier and they were completely right in moving on to what and who they felt comfortable with. That's part of the nuances of demographics. In another demographic, meaning time and place and people, I or anyone could have had a completely different and unique experience. I didn't understand this until taking my dating efforts to a different demographic and finding more synergy.

[Ryan R.]

God, this really hit home. Almost similar to my experiences... I was terrible with girls in high school and college was the same story. When did you graduate? I graduated last year and nothing has changed for me. Have you thought about seeing a specialist? I'm going to Amsterdam later this year and I'm going to see one.

[Camaro Guy]

This post really stood out to me.

 

Thanks for your insightful post. I simply came to the conclusion that I wasn't attractive because girls didn't like me or want anything more than to be friends. Girls never hinted anything to me so I just left it alone. I just came to conclusion that some people are meant to be alone and I'm one of them.

 

I just hate missing out on all the sexual adventures.

 

God, this really hit home. Almost similar to my experiences... I was terrible with girls in high school and college was the same story. When did you graduate? I graduated last year and nothing has changed for me. Have you thought about seeing a specialist? I'm going to Amsterdam later this year and I'm going to see one.

 

I graduated two years ago. What is a specialist? Do you mean a prostitute? I've considered it, but I have too much self-respect and pride for that. Also I'm too scared if I catch anything or run into police presence.

 

as he mentioned Elliot Rodger, i highly doubt there would ever be a female version of Elliot Rodger

 

I doubt it and even if there was, I wouldn't be able to relate to her. Men are inherently more violent due to how we have been socialized and testosterone.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Camaro Guy