Money and dates in relationships. Your thoughts?

[ktya]

And @ ktya- is it really that offensive for a guy to use coupons? My guy got coupons for two movie tickets, popcorn and drinks for our date tmr. I am perfectly fine with that, a cheap/free date is great!

 

My "unspoken rules" was tongue in cheek, albeit rooted in truth.

 

In my experience, i would never take the risk of using a coupon on a date unless the girl was already my exclusive girlfriend. Ive heard women talk about guys using coupons on dates and what they had to say about it wasnt pretty, and it was clear the guy was not getting another kick at the can ever again.

[ktya]

. I think that treating a man like your personal walking bank is unattractive. I am not entitled to my man's money, just like he's not entitled to my body.

 

My ex could learn a lot from you having a conversation on this topic.

 

Apparently i was a committment phobe because i would not open a joint bank account with her. When i started dating after breaking up with her she forewarned me that pretty girls who wore makeup and did their hair all the time would expect me to pay for all of their cosmetics and hair dye, and if they didnt they were sleeping with a sugar daddy who bought these things for them and i would be in for heartbreak. She said most girls are like this. She would blow all of her money for the month in the first week and then id be stuck paying for her incidentals like cigarettes for the rest of the month.

 

I even had a "strong conversation" with her about this and used the terminology you used above about feeling like a walking ATM. I would loan her my bank card to get groceries and tell her the budget was $350 but if she went over a bit that was ok. She blew $850. Id send her to the store to get two packs of cigarettes and shed come back with six.

 

Ugh.

 

Sorry the rant is a bit off topic but good on you for being the way you are crystalcastles.

[Succession]

The person who asks the other person out should pay for the date. Apparently this is fair, but since the guy is always expected to do the asking that means that the guy should always pay.

 

This was a fun post. Thanks for writing it. To your point quoted here, I agree with the rule that the asker should do the planning and the paying. But don't discount the power of planning - my walking dates, bowling dates and picnic dates were successful if we had a connection. I think 99% of the time that type of date fizzled, it was because there was no spark, rather than her losing interest because it was cheap.

 

Things went south with my most recent ex because she liked nice dinners, drinks, lounges and beach vacations. I liked cooking, watching sports and movies, and hiking. I tried to observe the "ask, plan and pay" rule, but in the interest of extreme fairness, also gave her the option of splitting both "her" outings and "my" outings 50/50. She rejected both proposals. Rather, she felt that the man has a responsibility to court the woman in the manner she likes. That meant my asking, planning and paying for things she enjoyed and I didn't.

 

You can find her back on Plenty of Fish.

[jay1983]

This isn't fair, it's one of the reasons I've given up on women and relationships in general.

[No Limit]

If you two are not on equal footing regarding dates and you still want her to pay half of it, then you'll just have to step lower to the type of dates you make. Instead of going out you watch a movie or something else that doesn't cost much.

[todreaminblue]

I dont think its right for a guy to pay for everything, dating is mutual time shared so why not money, i tend to find with guys who pay for me grope me afterwards...without fail i have found this...so when a guy becomes agressively insistent on paying...i wonder why and i am on the defense ......so ill actually go ahead and pay the whole bill.....ill beat him to it, wrestle if i have to.....if he lets me i feel better......i am a free spirit and i wont be paid for, if i get to know the guy and we are both serious about each other i like it when we take turns because if he says to me or i say to him ill get the next one that shows a future......and promise....smilin....and good times..i am already thinking of somewhere special to go that doesnt cost money so he wont have to spend any money......money is necessary to survive .....but it shouldnt be the crux of every date therefore becoming a bone of contention and argument......the bane and the downfall of a possibly good time to be had when it comes to settling the bill....it should feel natural adn unforced with no resetnment....just a promise for future good times and no ill feelings......to me it shows where the issues are goign to come up later when it is important to consider money and wwhat to do......doesnt bode well for compromise or resolution skills if you cant agree on a twenty dollar billed date................deb

[MissBee]

I have not presented this case for fear of starting another argument with my gf, so that's why I am asking the public on this forum. Since revealing the money issue to me, I have fallen back to starting to pay for everything in order to keep our relationship more stable. I can certainly afford it and have no problems at all, it's just that I wish I had known earlier or she mentioned it to me earlier before I continued with the split-costs approach.

So folks, am I right or wrong here? Is my belief of sharing costs on dates valid or invalid? Is my girlfriend right/wrong? Should I have stuck to my belief, or should I have been paying for everything in the first place? Any and all comments, tips, and criticisms are appreciated.

 

You seem to be having two different problems.

 

On one hand you say you can afford it and it is no problem at all...the only problem was that you wish she had spoken up earlier about it...then later you're asking if she is right or wrong and should you have stuck to your belief about sharing costs....???

 

Huh? Which one is it? Do you genuinely not have a problem paying for everything and is the problem more one of communication OR do you in fact have a problem with it and so want to prove yourself right and she wrong?

 

What it comes down to IMO is you figuring out which it is first off. But more importantly, it's a matter of communication. You simply assumed every woman wanted to go dutch because your last gf did and you are upset that your gf never said anything about it. It's not just her...it's you too. This is something you could have mentioned you liked to do or something you could have asked her opinions on before assuming.

 

If you don't mind and just wish she spoke up earlier...what's the problem now? Why not just chalk it up to you assuming wrongly and happily paying? On the other hand, if you have a big problem with her stance, then bring up the issue gently and if you make more then suggest footing most of the expenses for dates but liking her to also pay sometimes or if not pay, do something else. Not everything is a dollar for dollar exchange. Sometimes I pay for dinners and sometimes my bf does, but frankly if he paid more for dinners out, it wouldn't be unfair, simply because he doesn't cook EVER...and I cook ALL the time and buy the groceries and spend the time making sometimes elaborate full meals and desserts that probably cost the same or more than some restaurant meals. So if we were gonna calculate, time, effort and money spent, you'd find it comes out to be the same or more.

 

Also: know that whatever the "public" says doesn't matter. You're not in court or on a game show and her feelings about it outweigh what random people on LS "vote" on or determine is okay. So the whole point isn't to try to make it a who is right or wrong scenario as that stance almost never works, but instead coming to a place of mutual understanding where you explain to her why you did it, like you explained to us, ask her opinions on how it should be etc and come to some place that satisfies you both.

[MissBee]

What is with nickle and diming anyways? I don't do that with my friends or my boyfriends, I never keep track or count. If I love someone I'd give them the shirt off my back. Even for one of my friends, if I want to go for a pint or for dinner and she hasn't gotten her pay that week, I will treat her and not keep track if she gets me back, I don't care if I treat a few times in a row. I know she'd get me back because I only spend time with good quality people.

 

I have dated people with millions and I currently am dating a student who has nothing. I've been on both sides of the fence.

 

If you aren't generous and will get bitter over issues with money, then date someone in your own tax bracket.

 

Right!

 

The nickel and diming attitude and talks of entitlement and so on are really foreign concepts to me and I find it totally exhausting to read and thankfully don't date people like that and none of my close friends are that way either. We are all generous people who don't need to calculate every penny and who understand that even if someone isn't necessarily paying they can contribute to a relationship in other ways and yess like you said, I hang out with and try to date good quality people so don't need to be on high alert that I'm being used.

 

I'm by no means rich but when I care about people, boyfriends and friends, I don't sit around calculating every receipt, every penny, expecting everyone to pay half at all times or they are "entitled" . If my bf and I are gonna do a vacation or something huge then yes, we'd go half on it or at least discuss how to pay for it. But once I have the money and am not going broke then I don't sit around calculating every penny and would be so turned off if he did. We also NEVER go dutch on dates. That is sooooo tacky IMO and is what you do with friends NOT your SO. If we go out to eat, either he pays ALL of it or I pay all of it. But to sit there calculating what's half of it...I'm sorry, it's tacky.

Edited June 27, 2014 by MissBee

[TigerLilly78]

I think if you are in an established relationship she should be contributing to the relationship and paying at least some of the time. Since you make more money than she does, it's not totally unreasonable for you to pay more often if you don't mind doing so, but I think it's pretty rude of her to expect you to pay for everything. It seems like she could occasionally pay a taxi fare or for movie tickets or dessert. Something.

 

I think this is about right thing I don't understand is if its such a hardship on her that's one thing but if its just she wants everything to be payed for her then no its not right a relationship should be as close to 50/50 as it can get that doesn't stop when the wallets come out imo anyways...

[ktya]

This was a fun post. Thanks for writing it.

 

Rather, she felt that the man has a responsibility to court the woman in the manner she likes. That meant my asking, planning and paying for things she enjoyed and I didn't.

 

No worries i had fun writing it. My tablet browser crashed while writing it the first time and if it wasnt so much fun to write i might not have rebooted it and gone back to redo it.

 

Your ex reminds me of this teacher i dated. We went for drinks (i paid of course). She came back to my place and we made out for a while, she blue balled me and went home right at the point a normal person would expect the girl to give a blow job.

 

I playfully asked if i had to take her to a public place for the next date as i was going to offer to have her over and cook her dinner. To my surprise she said yes, and said "take me to dinner". I was actually cooking something amazing at the time and was talking to her about it (i used to be a sous chef) and i tried again to suggest that id love to have her over for dinner. She kept demanding that we go out for dinner despite that she recognized that i can cook quite well.

 

This philosophy that you must take them out wine and dine them and it should involve a transaction whereby you pay is quite deeply ingrained in many women as part of the Walt Disney rules of courtship, whereby to be Prince Charming you must jump through these hoops and if you dont do it this way something is wrong.

 

Ironically i was going to do steak and lobster for her as lobsters were on sale with a fancy pasta and homemade garlic bread with baked brie bruschetta for appetizers. Meal would have still cost me $40-50 but in a restaurant it would have been $160.

 

I nexted her.

 

Really i think womens "rules" for payment should return to the stone age where they belong. Most women work these days so paying half or their portion of the bill on a first date should be the norm. Actually they should pay the full bill on the first date because they make us do all the legwork and asking :-P j/k

[Enjaycee]

You seem to be having two different problems.

 

On one hand you say you can afford it and it is no problem at all...the only problem was that you wish she had spoken up earlier about it...then later you're asking if she is right or wrong and should you have stuck to your belief about sharing costs....???

 

Huh? Which one is it? Do you genuinely not have a problem paying for everything and is the problem more one of communication OR do you in fact have a problem with it and so want to prove yourself right and she wrong?

 

What it comes down to IMO is you figuring out which it is first off. But more importantly, it's a matter of communication. You simply assumed every woman wanted to go dutch because your last gf did and you are upset that your gf never said anything about it. It's not just her...it's you too. This is something you could have mentioned you liked to do or something you could have asked her opinions on before assuming.

 

If you don't mind and just wish she spoke up earlier...what's the problem now? Why not just chalk it up to you assuming wrongly and happily paying? On the other hand, if you have a big problem with her stance, then bring up the issue gently and if you make more then suggest footing most of the expenses for dates but liking her to also pay sometimes or if not pay, do something else. Not everything is a dollar for dollar exchange. Sometimes I pay for dinners and sometimes my bf does, but frankly if he paid more for dinners out, it wouldn't be unfair, simply because he doesn't cook EVER...and I cook ALL the time and buy the groceries and spend the time making sometimes elaborate full meals and desserts that probably cost the same or more than some restaurant meals. So if we were gonna calculate, time, effort and money spent, you'd find it comes out to be the same or more.

 

Also: know that whatever the "public" says doesn't matter. You're not in court or on a game show and her feelings about it outweigh what random people on LS "vote" on or determine is okay. So the whole point isn't to try to make it a who is right or wrong scenario as that stance almost never works, but instead coming to a place of mutual understanding where you explain to her why you did it, like you explained to us, ask her opinions on how it should be etc and come to some place that satisfies you both.

 

This one opened my eyes a bit. Thank you for pointing that out. I shouldn't have made assumptions about who pays for what on dates and it probably would have been nice to have thought to ask about this in the first place. I never thought to ask her "so how are you about who pays for the first date?" If I had then I would have found out right away, instead of from an argument, that she is "old-fashioned" dater, which is something I can get down with. Now that I know, I know what I can do to make things a little better. And yes, probably would be better to go on cheaper dates and offer to pay more since I do make more at the current moment.

 

Since it never came to my mind to ask about money, it came off to me as ridiculous that we had had an argument about money and paying, and that was how I found out her opinion on it, unfortunately.

 

I really am fine with paying for most, if not all, of the cost on a date since I am making a decent paycheck now, and knowing her financial situation, I probably should have thought of this sooner. Don't know why it didn't cross my mind...and I also didn't consider the significance of what other services, such as cooking or helping out with things, can be used to reciprocate love and affection for your bf/gf. She already has done so much for me already, and now that I think about it, she has split evenly with me on bills at my request, has driven all the way to see me at my apartment on multiple occasions, bought and cooked for me amazing food, and bought and MADE for me awesome graduation presents (her family owns a lumber mill and she constructed me a shelf made out of a very elegant type of wood), all with the little money she makes from working 3 days at the restaurant. Gosh, I've been out of the dating game for so long haha.

 

But this post really opened my eyes. Thank you for this!

[guest569]

Whoever asked for the date should just go ahead and get the bill. And the other person can just throw half at them if they wish and the bill payer can protest or accept.

 

I think that is fair because the person who organised it can pick a place they know they can afford and they should expect to be paying for it. And no it wont always be the man who sets up the date.

Edited June 28, 2014 by smiley1

[thekid36]

One of the things that my current girlfriend and I had a fuss about was about money and paying for dates.

 

At one point, I had the belief that men were supposed to pay everything for all the dates for a certain period of time when pursuing a relationship with a woman. Little did I know, depending on who you're dating, sometimes it gets to a point where you can relax a little and let her pay if she really wants to. I used to always insist on paying for everything, for a long time too (6+ months into a relationship), to a point where it almost became a topic of argument (happened with a previous gf).

 

After that point, I have started to believe that its better to go dutch, or to pay for some parts of a date while she cover other parts. My thinking is if we do it this way, she wouldn't feel guilty about me paying for every thing, supporting women's equality, all that. Fairness, right? Apparently that is not the case...

 

The several dates that I have been on with my long-distance gf, including our first, consisted of meeting in the middle in some city, and we do typical couples things, such as movies, meals, events, etc. I would always ask first, though, if I would pay for this while she covered that. The dates easily are $100+ dates given the gas for travel, movies, meals, tourist attractions, etc. She always seemed to never have a problem with it, or so I thought.

 

After so many of these kinds of dates occurred, my gf finally revealed to me during an argument that we had was that she has never NOT been expected to help cover the costs on a date with everyone she's ever dated, and that she didn't appreciate me expecting her to pay too. I was appalled, because the whole time I thought that what I was doing was okay! Why did she wait until now to tell me? This is where I this whole issue is ridiculous; had she TOLD me that she didn't appreciate it in the first place, I could have easily covered everything, $100+ and all. I'm a salaried employee and she still works at a local restaurant, so maybe knowing that I should have offered to pay more, but even still, I was all for the spirit of fairness.

 

I couple this with my belief that "it's not about the money" that you spend in a relationship. If you decide to spend money on someone, no matter how much or how little, then that is your choice, and you shouldn't be expecting anything back, lest you become resentful to your bf/gf about it. Another reason why I think it's bs, because she said that she spent that because she wanted to and doesn't expect anything back, but then mentions the problem above??? Apparently I missed something here, and now I believe she has become slightly resentful/annoyed because of it.

 

I have not presented this case for fear of starting another argument with my gf, so that's why I am asking the public on this forum. Since revealing the money issue to me, I have fallen back to starting to pay for everything in order to keep our relationship more stable. I can certainly afford it and have no problems at all, it's just that I wish I had known earlier or she mentioned it to me earlier before I continued with the split-costs approach.

 

So folks, am I right or wrong here? Is my belief of sharing costs on dates valid or invalid? Is my girlfriend right/wrong? Should I have stuck to my belief, or should I have been paying for everything in the first place? Any and all comments, tips, and criticisms are appreciated.

 

Call me old fashioned then because I believe that it should be the pleasure of a man to take care of his woman. So, thus it is already eliminated as an expectation. This extends into the world of dating.

 

Not that the woman stays home and cooks and cleans while the man is the only one who works. That is from the 1950's and this is definitely not the Happy Days. Man, the economy in Wisconsin seriously sucks.

 

But, seriously. There are certain things that should just be. Without written rules and without explicit engagements. The desire to pay should come from our own volition as a man.

[GemmaUK]

This one opened my eyes a bit. Thank you for pointing that out. I shouldn't have made assumptions about who pays for what on dates and it probably would have been nice to have thought to ask about this in the first place. I never thought to ask her "so how are you about who pays for the first date?" If I had then I would have found out right away, instead of from an argument, that she is "old-fashioned" dater, which is something I can get down with. Now that I know, I know what I can do to make things a little better. And yes, probably would be better to go on cheaper dates and offer to pay more since I do make more at the current moment.

 

Since it never came to my mind to ask about money, it came off to me as ridiculous that we had had an argument about money and paying, and that was how I found out her opinion on it, unfortunately.

 

I really am fine with paying for most, if not all, of the cost on a date since I am making a decent paycheck now, and knowing her financial situation, I probably should have thought of this sooner. Don't know why it didn't cross my mind...and I also didn't consider the significance of what other services, such as cooking or helping out with things, can be used to reciprocate love and affection for your bf/gf. She already has done so much for me already, and now that I think about it, she has split evenly with me on bills at my request, has driven all the way to see me at my apartment on multiple occasions, bought and cooked for me amazing food, and bought and MADE for me awesome graduation presents (her family owns a lumber mill and she constructed me a shelf made out of a very elegant type of wood), all with the little money she makes from working 3 days at the restaurant. Gosh, I've been out of the dating game for so long haha.

 

But this post really opened my eyes. Thank you for this!

 

She has done all these lovely things for you.

What have you done for her aside from cover your half of the costs of your dates?

 

Sounds like she is a very considerate person from all that she has done.

If I were her I would be irked that you weren't 'considerate' of my financial situation to any degree.

 

I don't like a man paying for everything as I think it should be shared but what a person earns needs to be taken into account too.

 

I dated a guy (we went dutch on the first date btw - my choice). We would 'treat' one time and 'be treated' the next time.

He earned a lot more than me.

I have a mortgage and bills to pay. He had a mortgage too on his house which his ex still lived in rent free (they split 3 years ago).

He had no bills to pay as he lived in his company truck all week and stayed at his parents or at my place on weekends.

I'd travel to him once a month by train and he would travel to me once a month by car so that cost was about equal also.

The last few months due to what we were doing I ended up travelling to him most times though- except for my birthday when he came here.

 

He helped me out with something not long after we got together (helped clear out a half full garage and take a few things to the rubbish dump) so I treated him to lunch as a thank you £68 for the lunch.

 

A few months later it was my birthday and he wanted to take me out for dinner - we went and it was a nice evening.

He did later make a complaint to me though that it was hugely expensive and we wouldn't be going back unless I chipped in or paid. I assumed it must have cost around £150 - the food was superb - admittedly!

It wasn't £150, he still had the receipt which he showed me and it was £80 in total for the night.

I made my own choice about that lunch and had no problem with the cost but was pretty stunned when he complained about dinner (a whole evening at the place) for £80!

Perhaps if he had spent a fortune on a present I would have understood a little better but he didn't.

[Succession]

Whoever asked for the date should just go ahead and get the bill. And the other person can just throw half at them if they wish and the bill payer can protest or accept.

 

Weird one from last night. It was a first date at an inexpensive restaurant. When the check came, I went to pay for it, and she offered to contribute.

 

I said "it's okay, I can get it, unless you'd be more comfortable splitting it." It turns out that she was perfectly comfortable not splitting it.

 

Was my "I'll pay unless you'd prefer to split" a good way for a guy to handle a woman's offer to pay? Is it polite and flexible, or cheap?

 

I'm trying to find the balance between being gentlemanly, versus being too insistent and making the woman uncomfortable. On the other had, I somewhat resented her not following through with her hollow offer to contribute, and that's not productive, either.

 

It's a tough passage to navigate.

[haribogumsnickers]

You make more so just pay up baller. Be the chivalrous knight that you really are and sweep her off the ground back into your court.

 

I'm not salaried but I automatically insist on paying for it all. Dollar menu style buddy...no wonder I'm still single. Fml.

[GemmaUK]

Weird one from last night. It was a first date at an inexpensive restaurant. When the check came, I went to pay for it, and she offered to contribute.

 

I said "it's okay, I can get it, unless you'd be more comfortable splitting it." It turns out that she was perfectly comfortable not splitting it.

 

Was my "I'll pay unless you'd prefer to split" a good way for a guy to handle a woman's offer to pay? Is it polite and flexible, or cheap?

 

I'm trying to find the balance between being gentlemanly, versus being too insistent and making the woman uncomfortable. On the other had, I somewhat resented her not following through with her hollow offer to contribute, and that's not productive, either.

 

It's a tough passage to navigate.

 

To be fair she did offer..and she would have carried that through had you straight up agreed.

We don't offer unless we are happy to pay our share.

You ended up resenting her because you didn't take up her offer of paying half.

 

If you had simply agreed you wouldn't be resenting her now.

All that you would be thinking now if she had paid her share is that she didn't enjoy the date....probably?

 

She kinda couldn't get it right by you whatever she chose could she!

[GravityMan]

Money and dates in relationships. Your thoughts?

 

OP,

 

I think the main issue with you and your GF (and your exes, too) isn't that you pay all the time, or that you go dutch, or that she covers the bill. It's the lack of open, honest communication between you two on finances and other types of contributions, as well as the initial inflexibility on your part. Preferably, both of you should have had a pretty good idea on where each other stand by the type you reach the "BF/GF" phase. Now, many people don't like (and for good reason) to get too specific about their financial situation and even their job with someone else until the relationship is very far along. There are non-intrusive ways to get a general idea of where the other person stands money-wise...e.g. when she told you that she works as a waitress, you should have immediately realized (provided you aren't clueless about the economy) that you are likely more well-off than she is, and you should either pay more for dates or go on cheaper/free dates. Not making those adjustments would be irresponsible and disrespectful.

 

Financial situations can also change suddenly, including your own (layoffs, major medical illness, etc.) If you fell on hard times one day, then you two as a couple should adjust dates accordingly (maybe go out less often? maybe she pays a bit more frequently if she can afford it?).

 

Money is one area where it is best to be flexible and adaptable. Ditch or at least de-prioritize the societal gender roles and old-school traditional etiquette. It's often because of rigid beliefs like that that some people end up in bad money situations down the road. Every woman you date is different in terms of financial situation, beliefs and expectations. Be prepared to at least offer to pay on the first few dates as that's a strong sign to her that you care and want to show that via a nice gesture. And perhaps most importantly, try not to make a big fuss out of the whole "who pays" thing. Lighten up. If you offer and she insists she wants to pay...then maybe let her, or compromise in some way that's agreeable to both of you. That can be accomplished in less than one minute with a light casual or even humorous attitude. No need to be stubborn. This doesn't make you less of a "man". It makes you more of a mature, open-minded adult.

 

Resentment is often a feeling that gradually builds up over time. I think a lot of these money-related fights and arguments could be avoided if both people would just communicate and be a bit more frank early on (while still respecting boundaries), instead of beating around the bush or expecting the other person to read your mind.