zippman Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Im going to try to make this as short as possible without leaving out on any relevant details. I'm about 25 yo, started learning seduction at 19 got good at it and found a few girlfriends. The last one ended about 6 months ago and since my game has been crazy. I got great lifestyle mixed with a good natural game and high social value. So i meet this cute and fun girl at a party a few weeks ago. We vibe and she is clearly interested. I take her number and we meet up a week later to grab a beer. I love to keep it casual, and if a girl agrees to grab a beer that is usually even more casual and relaxed. We have a great time, go from one place to another. Lot's of kino and flirting. I wait with going for the kiss because it's all so smooth atm and there is really no rush. It's kind of late and she has to leave, i propose she could joing me for a coffe at my place (I live nearby) and she says another time. No probs, the date went so well i was sure she wanted to see me again. Just as i thought, she gladly agrees to meet up again. We grab a beer and a coffe. Then i once again propose to go to my place for a beer and chill at my balcony. She agrees with no hesitation. We go home to my place. I live in kind of a luxury apartment and she seems to love it. We have a beer in the sun, cook some awesome food and watch some TV while eating. She kind of cuddles up on me. I know it's time to escalate and we start to make out on the sofa. Zero hesitation. We make out for a few minutes. It's not like one long makeout session, i stop every now and then, keeping it slow, teasing, kissing the neck, not to much touching on her private parts yet. Then suddenly after a few min of making out she kind of panics, imo. At least, she has to leave all of the sudden. She says "it's late", and it wasn't really that late.. I'm not going to wine about it but i do ask her if there is something weird that i missed going on. I mean it could be whatever, she has a bf, HIV, is lesbian or whatever. But just leaving like that, i'm not used to this at all. I'm feeling very certain that she is interested, otherwise i have misread this whole thing from day 1. I might have projected to much value and she doesn't want to bee "just another girl" and come off as easy or she is just playing hard to get and i'm all fine with that, i even like that **** sometimes.. I'm also meeting a few other girls atm so i kind of went all-in just to find out what was going on, because i couldn't get it off my mind. If she's not interested it's all fine and i can move on. Heck, i'm not even sure i like this girl, but we had a great time hanging out and i would surely like to meet her some more to get to know her better. So, for some reason i send her a very needy text.. "I enjoy spending time with you. If you wanna hang out and kill the hangover with some ice cream tomorrow im on." The second i sent this i realized it was a VERY bad move, and seemed needy as ****. I did not mean it nearly in the way as it seems and sending text messages like this is very stupid. She could even take this as some kind of " i'm starting to fall in love with you" message. I just tried to tell her that i'm not just meeting her for the sex and put off the eventual pressure she might have felt when she was leaving my place, and now i might have ruined it all. She answers "Hi!! No, i'm not free on thursday. Have a great day at work" I think i might have scared her off here, and instead of lower my value just a little bit, in the case that i had overqualified myself, i drop it all the way to the bottom. Is there anyway to save this, or should i just drop this girl and go on with the next one? I just want to find out if she's interested or not in a way that won't have me look even more needy. As i said, if she' not interested i'm fine with that - but if she is interested, then i would like to see her again. I mean, if she was as interested as she seemed, and we did have an awesome fun time together, can my text message still have killed all the attraction? And is there anyway i can find out what she wants without acting even more needy? The only thing i can think of is letting this be for now, then maybe get back to her in some way in a week or something in a casual way. If she was genuinely interested and i back off a bit, maybe she would like to hang out again. But it's probably not a good idea to try and explain the text messages.. Would love to hear some thoughts on this before i probably just dropp it and learn my lesson..
PegNosePete Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 zippman, my advice to you is to drop this ridiculous childish PUA stuff. Or are you just after an f-close with this girl? If so then why post here on a relationship forum rather than a PUA forum? If you're looking for a real meaningful relationship then you should definitely drop the PUA garbage and just be yourself. 8
Gaeta Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Smart girl She felt your game probably right from the beginning. She needed to confirm it to herself on that second date and she did. 7
GemmaUK Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 She knows exactly what you were doing. The text didn't kill any attraction. Her memory killed it. 2
ThorntonMelon Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 That PUA stuff is just about the most appalling stuff I have ever read in my life. Smart girl. 2
BlueIris Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 That PUA stuff is just about the most appalling stuff I have ever read in my life. Smart girl. I don't know.... Watch Austin Powers movies and it isn't as appalling. They can kind of change the tone or perspective on this.
Author zippman Posted June 26, 2014 Author Posted June 26, 2014 Well, i really appreciate the feedback. Just to be clear, i think this girl is really cool (and yes, she is very smart) and i do wan't to hang out with her, not just **** her once. I don't run nearly as much game on this girl as you seem to think. Sure, i write and think in PUA terms, especially in this case when i'm trying to figure out what was going on here, but that is the way i'm used to write in on forums And i'm sorry if i came trough as a douchebag. Old habits i guess. Sure, i do sometimes use "PUA stuff" when meeting women, to keep things interesting and it's part of me flirting. With that said, this girl felt like something else and we did connect on a high level, and i think it made me insecure and probably the reason why i acted the way i did. Since i broke up with me ex i have not been dating any girls serious and it's like i almost forgot the differences.. I wanted to let her know i'm not a player but didn't know how to do this in a normal way.. Just to bad that i realize this to late. Anyway, i figure this kind of discussion is not highly appreciated here. Thanks anyway for making me think.
2sunny Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Your agenda was to have sex with her. Stop that. Get to know a gal - really know who she is - before the stupid asking her back to your place. She knew you only wanted sex - and she didn't want that. If you want to ask her out again - ask her to dinner, pay and kiss her good night. Then wait a few days and ask her out again. She likely feels you view her as a piece of meat. Listen when you have conversations with her. Pay attention. Make her feel that you CARE about HER.
Strength in Healing Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Lmao hey mystery where's the rest of the gang In all seriousness, there is an art to pickup, but you reading the PUA books and stuff is goofy. Look up simple pickup on youtube and learn.
d0nnivain Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 First you seem to have a very high opinion of yourself & a very low opinion of women. If she caught that vibe -- or you have a reputation -- that could explain her disappearing act. Many women don't like Players & you are one with a capital P. Really that's not a crack. I like players; they give good date, usually. The whole casual, superiority attitude I could do without. So, for some reason i send her a very needy text.. "I enjoy spending time with you. If you wanna hang out and kill the hangover with some ice cream tomorrow im on.". As for your text, that's about the farthest thing from needy I have every read. It's light & casual & comes off like you could care less if she hangs out with you or not. Perhaps work on your compassion.
Author zippman Posted June 26, 2014 Author Posted June 26, 2014 It's interesting to read your thoughts on this. I see a lot of opinions that is a lot different then how i see things. I see nothing wrong with taking home a girl the first or second time seeing each other, but i do understand if a girl won't follow me to my place, but in this case she did. I would never buy girl dinner the first time i meet her, she actually told me how relieved she felt when i didn't ask her out on a dinner date like all other guys used to do. And yes, my intention were to sleep with her. I was not looking for something serious what so ever. But now i'm not sure anymore. And you know, there is a lot of girls out there that only want something casual and has no problem with sleeping with someone the first time they meet. I don't judge them and if she's not one of those i won't push her. She were participating in the escalation as much as i did. If i only wanted sex, i would not text her telling her i like to hang out with her the next day and asking to meet up. Maybe she just wanted something casual and were worried that i wanted something more, then this message could scare her away. Even if we clearly have different views on dating, i like to hear your thoughts on this. And i also see a lot of bad thing with this whole "PUA" scene, and i do have a problem with a lot of stuff coming out of it like scripted routines, unhealthy view and relationships with women and much more. Anyway, i do find this girl very interesting. I might have ruined my chance with her if i came off like a "player" or just not someone who is looking for something serious. I get that. But as i said, i would like to get to know this girl better as she is a very interesting girl and i like spending time with her, and i'm not in a urge to sleep with her.
Author zippman Posted June 26, 2014 Author Posted June 26, 2014 As for your text, that's about the farthest thing from needy I have every read. It's light & casual & comes off like you could care less if she hangs out with you or not. Perhaps work on your compassion. Really? I just feel like it was waaay to soon to write something like this, i think a lot of girls would be scared off if a guy writes this after second date that ended with some makeout and her leaving.
Gaeta Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 I Anyway, i do find this girl very interesting. I might have ruined my chance with her if i came off like a "player" or just not someone who is looking for something serious. I get that. But as i said, i would like to get to know this girl better as she is a very interesting girl and i like spending time with her, and i'm not in a urge to sleep with her. And you expect a procedure with step 1 - 2 - 3 but there isn't. It was suggested by another poster already, invite her out, on a date. Don't invite her home after, bring her back home, kiss good night and leave. Simple as that. Yes some people invite dates over to their home on a 1st and 2nd date, but you have to be aware that it sends the wrong message to the ladies that are not looking to hook up.
Gaeta Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 So, for some reason i send her a very needy text.. "I enjoy spending time with you. If you wanna hang out and kill the hangover with some ice cream tomorrow im on." I don't find this needy one bit. I thought it was the only thing you did right. 2
d0nnivain Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Really? I just feel like it was waaay to soon to write something like this, i think a lot of girls would be scared off if a guy writes this after second date that ended with some makeout and her leaving. I have no idea what kind of women you hang out with but . . . At best your text was kind . . maybe reassuring because you were brave enough to put it out there that you enjoyed her company. Needy is a series of texts several of which said things like: Beloved: Yesterday was the best day of my life!! You are an amazing person & I really love you. I have never felt like this about anybody before & I can't wait for you to be back in my arms so I can shower you with affection. Come over right now so I can stare into your beautiful eyes & spoon feed you ice cream while dreaming about making love to you for the rest of my life. I think I am still drunk on your kisses. All my love forever, Zippman That's needy & over the top at this stage.
clia Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Yes some people invite dates over to their home on a 1st and 2nd date, but you have to be aware that it sends the wrong message to the ladies that are not looking to hook up. This. ^^^^ My guess is once she got back to your place and the two of you started making out, she realized how premature and foolish it was for her to be at your place, and feared you would pressure her for sex. So, she left. I'm guessing she's around your age. She is probably just learning what a red flag it is when a guy invites you back to his place starting on the very first date. Really tacky. 1
Imajerk17 Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) Im going to try to make this as short as possible without leaving out on any relevant details. I'm about 25 yo, started learning seduction at 19 got good at it and found a few girlfriends. The last one ended about 6 months ago and since my game has been crazy. I got great lifestyle mixed with a good natural game and high social value. So i meet this cute and fun girl at a party a few weeks ago. We vibe and she is clearly interested. I take her number and we meet up a week later to grab a beer. I love to keep it casual, and if a girl agrees to grab a beer that is usually even more casual and relaxed. We have a great time, go from one place to another. Lot's of kino and flirting. I wait with going for the kiss because it's all so smooth atm and there is really no rush. It's kind of late and she has to leave, i propose she could joing me for a coffe at my place (I live nearby) and she says another time. No probs, the date went so well i was sure she wanted to see me again. Just as i thought, she gladly agrees to meet up again. We grab a beer and a coffe. Then i once again propose to go to my place for a beer and chill at my balcony. She agrees with no hesitation. We go home to my place. I live in kind of a luxury apartment and she seems to love it. We have a beer in the sun, cook some awesome food and watch some TV while eating. She kind of cuddles up on me. I know it's time to escalate and we start to make out on the sofa. Zero hesitation. We make out for a few minutes. It's not like one long makeout session, i stop every now and then, keeping it slow, teasing, kissing the neck, not to much touching on her private parts yet. Then suddenly after a few min of making out she kind of panics, imo. At least, she has to leave all of the sudden. She says "it's late", and it wasn't really that late.. I'm not going to wine about it but i do ask her if there is something weird that i missed going on. I mean it could be whatever, she has a bf, HIV, is lesbian or whatever. But just leaving like that, i'm not used to this at all. I'm feeling very certain that she is interested, otherwise i have misread this whole thing from day 1. I might have projected to much value and she doesn't want to bee "just another girl" and come off as easy or she is just playing hard to get and i'm all fine with that, i even like that **** sometimes.. I'm also meeting a few other girls atm so i kind of went all-in just to find out what was going on, because i couldn't get it off my mind. If she's not interested it's all fine and i can move on. Heck, i'm not even sure i like this girl, but we had a great time hanging out and i would surely like to meet her some more to get to know her better. So, for some reason i send her a very needy text.. "I enjoy spending time with you. If you wanna hang out and kill the hangover with some ice cream tomorrow im on." The second i sent this i realized it was a VERY bad move, and seemed needy as ****. I did not mean it nearly in the way as it seems and sending text messages like this is very stupid. She could even take this as some kind of " i'm starting to fall in love with you" message. I just tried to tell her that i'm not just meeting her for the sex and put off the eventual pressure she might have felt when she was leaving my place, and now i might have ruined it all. She answers "Hi!! No, i'm not free on thursday. Have a great day at work" I think i might have scared her off here, and instead of lower my value just a little bit, in the case that i had overqualified myself, i drop it all the way to the bottom. Is there anyway to save this, or should i just drop this girl and go on with the next one? I just want to find out if she's interested or not in a way that won't have me look even more needy. As i said, if she' not interested i'm fine with that - but if she is interested, then i would like to see her again. I mean, if she was as interested as she seemed, and we did have an awesome fun time together, can my text message still have killed all the attraction? And is there anyway i can find out what she wants without acting even more needy? The only thing i can think of is letting this be for now, then maybe get back to her in some way in a week or something in a casual way. If she was genuinely interested and i back off a bit, maybe she would like to hang out again. But it's probably not a good idea to try and explain the text messages.. Would love to hear some thoughts on this before i probably just dropp it and learn my lesson.. It (your text and how you handled her running off) wasn't "needy" per se, but I think the overall issue is that on her end there was no real connection between you and her. The way you handled her running off illustrates this. You would have been better off asking in the moment "Hey what's wrong" (as a genuine question) or texting her the next day "Hey you ran off kinda suddenly. Is everything OK". Questions that anyone in your situation would have going on through their mind. Instead you came back with something that seemed kind of scripted and might have sounded insensitive to her. The text that you did send "I enjoy spending time with you..." might have made her wonder if you and she were on the same date. You enjoy spending time with her? She ended your time together by running off on you! I believe the PUA term for that is "incongruence". Anyway I wonder if both of your dates with her were like this. Yes, being needy is bad. But so is not showing some vulnerability. Women are really self-protective. Read the threads on here written by them on here! All is not lost though. Text her something like: "You did run off kinda suddenly the other night. Is everything OK? You seem really cool and I would hate for us to not talk to each other anymore". You might get some useful feedback if nothing else. Edited June 26, 2014 by Imajerk17
Author zippman Posted June 26, 2014 Author Posted June 26, 2014 I have no idea what kind of women you hang out with but . . . At best your text was kind . . maybe reassuring because you were brave enough to put it out there that you enjoyed her company. I'm glad to hear that. Still, i do think a lot of women would find this intruding if they weren't sure if they liked a guy or not. My guess is once she got back to your place and the two of you started making out, she realized how premature and foolish it was for her to be at your place, and feared you would pressure her for sex. So, she left. I'm guessing she's around your age. She is probably just learning what a red flag it is when a guy invites you back to his place starting on the very first date. Really tacky. Maybe, maybe not. She is in my age and i don't think she has been seeing that much guys. I do understand that some people are not used to go home and make out on the second date, but i am. I met a lot of smart and great women who i had sex with the second date and i see nothing wrong with that. And i have no problem with her leaving because of this, but i'm just not sure that is the case. Maybe you are right, and that would explain a lot.
Versacehottie Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 ok, here's just my 2 cents: all that PUA stuff is a gimmick and game, of course. Irony is that now she is either "acting uninterested" or truly uninterested and it's working on OP like a charm>>>>>checkmate, buddy. ie if you can either keep trying to outgame girls with gimmicks or be smart and realize you're not the only one who can play games that work. *ps as for the text. I didn't find it needy at all. most genuine thing you seemed to do although maybe a day late and a dollar short.
Author zippman Posted June 26, 2014 Author Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) The text that you did send "I enjoy spending time with you..." might have made her wonder if you and she were on the same date. You enjoy spending time with her? She ended your time together by running off on you! I believe the PUA term for that is "incongruence". Anyway I wonder if both of your dates with her were like this. Yes, being needy is bad. But so is not showing some vulnerability. Women are really self-protective. Read the threads on here written by them on here! All is not lost though. Text her something like: "You did run off kinda suddenly the other night. Is everything OK? You seem really cool and I would hate for us to not talk to each other anymore". You might get some useful feedback if nothing else. Thanks for your input. I understand my way of handeling her leaving wasn't the best, but somehow i felt sort of rejected at the time. We hade an awesome time on both dates, that is what confuses me and that is also why i told her that in my message. Edited June 26, 2014 by zippman
Andy_K Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Sounds like she bolted because she didn't want to have sex. Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with having sex on a first or second date, and it's certainly possible to do so whilst still being respectful of and genuinely interested in someone. Running game won't help you at this point as she's probably already made her mind up whether to see you again. In a day or two, or however long you think appropriate (not a week, you'll just look like a player), ask her out to something more interesting and less casual than an ice cream or a drink. How about something she likes? Since you've had two dates, you should know a few of her interests now. You can be interested in getting to know someone and doing things with them without appearing clingy.
Imajerk17 Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Thanks for your input. I understand my way of handeling her leaving wasn't the best, but somehow i felt sort of rejected at the time. We hade an awesome time on both dates, that is what confuses me and that is also why i told her that in my message. As mentioned before above, all is not lost. Send her the following text: "You did run off kinda suddenly the other night. Is everything OK? You seem really cool and I would hate for us to not talk to each other anymore". If nothing else, you might get some great feedback.
Gaeta Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 I'm glad to hear that. Still, i do think a lot of women would find this intruding if they weren't sure if they liked a guy or not. When you believe one thing and everyone around you says otherwise, chances are your perception is wrong. You seem to be very much brainwashed by these players text books. I have been on plenty of dates and right after the first date men sent me a text saying he enjoyed my company. It's not intruding, or needy.
Author zippman Posted June 26, 2014 Author Posted June 26, 2014 Once again thank you all for your inputs. Meeting this girl has made me think a lot. Writing and reading here has also made me think and there is a lot of value here. As mentioned before above, all is not lost. Send her the following text: "You did run off kinda suddenly the other night. Is everything OK? You seem really cool and I would hate for us to not talk to each other anymore". If nothing else, you might get some great feedback. Something like this sounds like a good idea. If she still don't want to meet up, i'll just leave it be.
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