jasond777 Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Let me start this out by saying I'm with an amazing and sweet woman who I love very much and I look forward to marrying. We get along really well and have few problems but one of our biggest problems is me struggling with her past. This has gone on for quite some time now and it makes her feel absolutely horrible to the point of hating herself and crying which I do not like to see. I want to keep this anonymous so I won't go too deep into detail. My fiance is a christian woman who is and always has been involved in the church. She has good morals and tries to live right the best she can. When she was younger she tried some sexual things with a boyfriend of hers out of curiosity and didn't like it but he was a very abusive person and started forcing her and threatening her to get her to keep doing these things. this went on for years and somehow she kept on ending up back with this person who treated her like crap. According to her it was because she didn't see a way out but she hated all of it, she hated the sexual things and being treated like crap but he just kept forcing her and she was terrified of him. Later I came along and she had just decided to finally leave this person. Whenever I asked about the past or it came up, she made it sound like it was completely normal and she was happy with him but later she came out and told me everything and I can't help but feel like I don't know if she is being honest about things or just pretending like she already did with me. I can understand that it is hard to talk about but it still bothers me. The other thing is I can't seem to stop thinking about all the sexual things she has done with this guy and how it went on for years. I often wonder how can a person so strong in her faith live this way? How can a youth leader and sunday school teacher keep living that way? I see her and sometimes this is the only thing I can think of but it's even worse that it hurts her and brings up painful memories of her past. Is there something wrong with her to stay with an abusive guy for so long and how can I let this go?
acrosstheuniverse Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 To me it sounds as though she told you that she had had this relationship with a sexual component, and something about your reaction made her 'modify' the past, to make it sound as though she didn't want it after all, probably because she believes you'd think less of her for being open about loving being railed by her ex she had a multi-year relationship with. I'm not saying she wasn't abused, only she and he know this. But I guess you have to look at the bigger picture too. That's an awfully long time to be in a relationship with somebody who is raping you on a regular basis. These relationships do happen, but generally within a context of wider abuse, domestic violence, control. Do you have any reason to believe their relationship was largely negative and controlling? 1
stillafool Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 I tend to agree. Is she from an abusive home or was she raised without her parents? If she had a protective home I can see no reason for her to continue to get back in a relationship with a guy who abused her unless on some level she liked it. Especially a HS age girl. 1
ExpatInItaly Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 I think you'd find it beneficial to read up on the dynamics of an abusive relationship. You might gain a better understanding of why she stayed for so long in a harmful situation. And no, there's nothing wrong with her. Staying with an abuser is extremely commonplace. Do a bit of research and you'll understand why. You'll also begin to see why she wanted to pretend everything was just fine. Many abuse victims do so, either to protect their loved one and even themselves from the painful truth. But to be honest, I sense this has more to do with her sexual history. What specifically bothers you about it? The fact that she did things against her will, did things with him that she doesn't do with you, did things you feel are wrong or immoral? How did you react when she shared these things with you? It might be possible that she feels you're judging her, so she frames her past in a different way now. 3
Author jasond777 Posted June 25, 2014 Author Posted June 25, 2014 No I definitely do believe she was in a very abusive relationship, I went through her phone without her knowing and seen old text of their time together and he was very very controlling of her. I've had people tell me she seems so much happier now and I've seen her break down crying when something came up that reminded her of how she was forced. I really don't think she enjoyed that part of it. I also do believe that she was in denial and trying to cover the hurt because I met her right after she finally left this jerk. A big problem is my feelings of her doing sexual things with this guy for years and her also being a youth leader of a church at the same time! I hate that this guy got to have my wife in that way so many times, it's so hard to handle at times. I wake up in the middle of the night constantly with this. Abusive relationships are also so confusing and I constantly try to understand it, I have read about it and it has calmed me down.
Author jasond777 Posted June 25, 2014 Author Posted June 25, 2014 expat, you are wise and spot on actually. It might benefit me to talk to you privately.
soccerrprp Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I don't know her, but this type of stuff happens far too often. My gf was in a relationship with a guy she shouldn't have as long as she did. She, I believe, was co-dependent, trapped, didn't believe she could better and worse, felt personal guilt about the failure of the relationship when it clearly wasn't her fault. Your gf was ashamed so made it sounds better than it was. She was afraid that you would lose respect for her. I know what you are going through (not as bad as your situation)...I chose to stay, not let her past dictate her present. Not always easy, but if she is authentic and truly trying to keep her past out of her present and future, in this case, move forward WITH HER. But...and there is a but....do not allow her past to destroy your present, your future if she decides to hold onto her past and allow it to consume her and you. And about the "christian" thing.....for most, it's a facade until they are given the opportunity to truly express what they really are. Edited June 25, 2014 by soccerrprp
Author jasond777 Posted June 25, 2014 Author Posted June 25, 2014 She has let it go, at this point in time, it's just me holding onto it which really sucks. Worst part is, when I don't think of, I'm extremely happy with this woman, she is truly awesome.
littleplanet Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Well OP, If you truly love this woman and believe her to be honest and trustworthy - then you're going to have to figure out how to let it go. I can understand how and why it bothers you. But the world is full of good people who get abused by others who are very adept at maintaining control over them.....sometimes for long periods of time. If you know in your heart that you don't want to punish her for her past - then don't do it. I'm sure she is looking to you to be strong enough to be able to handle it. Let her past remain back where it belongs. It's gone. Did you ever read Thomas Hardy? (Tess of the D'Urbervilles) If you read it, you'll want to give good old Angel Claire a good kick in the cajones. (If you read it, you'll know why it pertains to your situation.) Good luck! 1
oldshirt Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 I can understand your discomfort and apprehension with this woman. What I think is causing a lot of your discomfort here is the incongruousness she is displaying. She is presently this public facade of being a good Christian church girl and leader of our youth. But behind closed doors is doing all these nasty things that supposedly go against her beliefs FOR YEARS. Now she is crying abuse and saying it was done to her out of duress. That means one of two things. One is she was either doing it all voluntarily and getting off on it at the time and is just a simple hypocrite and is now playing the role of church girl for you and basically lying about her role in her escapades. .....or she was pressured into it and she was just to weak and spineless to enforce her own boundaries and actually walk the walk of the values and morals she claims to have. Take your pick, which is better which is worse?????? I understand you having second thoughts about being with this woman and I think your seconds thoughts are valid. Please read on.... 2
oldshirt Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) If it were me, quite frankly I would be more comfortable with a woman that had a casual view and attitude about sexuality and was a bit of a party girl and intentionally chose a lifestyle of some casual sex and promiscuity vs a woman who claimed to be pious but was too weak to withhold her own beliefs and values. The world is full of temptations and full of bad people willing to use pressure and coersion and just plain assertiveness to get what they want. Who's to say she won't have some crappy boss or coworker willing to pressure her into doing things with them and then she'll have all this guilt and dysfunction and issues with you afterwords? A party girl at least has the strength to tell people to 'F' off if their advances are inappropriate or unwanted and then it doesn't impact her other relationships. Having sexual feelings and desires is normal and natural. Being weak and allowing things to be done to you against your wishes for years is not. She has some kind of malfunction and dysfunction if she is allowing herself to compromise her beliefs and values for years. Something is broken inside of her. Weakness is never a desirable trait. Actions always speak louder than words. Her words may be that of a church girl, but her actions are anything but. A girl with a relaxed attitude towards sexuality and a few notches on her hedonist but a strong sense of boundaries can chose to be a good faithful partner if she wants. But a person that is weak cannot choose to be strong and maintain their own beliefs. I personally would have more trust and confidence in the woman that has chose to be with a number of guys, but that followed her own values and maintained her own boundaries, rather than a woman who can can cite Bible verses and claims faith but allows others to pressure her into doing things she claims not to believe in. Your mileage may vary. Edited June 25, 2014 by oldshirt 3
d0nnivain Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Religion can do a number on people. The cycle of abuse includes a component where the victim feels powerless & trapped. It's shameful for them to admit what goes on behind closed doors because they think it's their fault. You are reinforcing that myth by questioning why she didn't leave earlier. Let me try to explain it this way. Have you ever seen a dog on an invisible fence? It's an electronic collar that allows the dog free within a set area. That area is marked by a wire under the ground. When you 1st set it up, you put flags in the ground so the dog has a visual marker & can tell when it's about to get a shock. After a while the dog learns & the flags come down. Some dogs fear the shock so much that even if the fence is off or the batteries die, they won't test the boundaries again. Abuse is similar for people. Part if Christianity is forgiveness. Try applying that portion of your religion to this situation. Remember, let he who is without sin cast the 1st stone. 3
firmness Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 OP - you have a problem on your hands. I agree with others who say that she is probably reframing her past so as to not lose you. When you judge others for their past, you are pushing them to lie to you. YOUR fault for pushing, their fault for lying. You ask at the end how you can "let it go". I do not think your religious training will let you do this, so I cannot help you there. But I can tell you how I have handled these sorts of feelings. WARNING: Brutal honesty and sexual content is about to follow, so if you do not want an honest perspective, STOP READING NOW. You have been warned: First let me say that I have a significant amount of experience with women. And I have a 42 year old girlfriend now who is absolutely amazing in every way - intelligent, creative, fun, easy going, and drop dead gorgeous. She lives in NY City and is no delicate flower - in fact she is pretty badass. She also has one hell of a past! So let's get that on the table first - I get where you are coming from. Simply put, my approach is to create so many good memories with her, that her past seems silly and pale by comparison. Simple. Easy. Effective. I am the most evil, manipulative man on the planet. I am everything that is bad about men. And here is why.... I am unapologetic. I love my girlfriend from the deepest place inside me. I give her my all and hold nothing back. I hold her tight every time we hug and I kiss her deeply. I pull her hair and yank her by the neck sometimes (assertively, but not aggressively, if you get the difference). I have picked her up, tossed her over my shoulder and tossed her on the bed and drilled the living crap out of her for being feisty with me. And this power house woman, who you would think would be shocked and aghast at such brutish behavior, suddenly became as playful as a kitty - she even started sniffing me all over like a cat would. Funny, but true. I have spent hours naked in bed with her talking, laughing, joking, and well, you know. I have also had quickies, just to take what I need, because she invited me over and keeps doing so - and I am the sort of man who takes quickies when I want them. She has not complained once and keeps calling me. I have also stared into deeply her eyes and said all sorts of ridiculous romantic crap- whatever was on my mind - without fear or embarrassment. I have shown her my strength and my vulnerability. I have been brutally, and I mean BRUTALLY honest with her. You have no idea. I have listened to her complain about her ex (repeatedly, and still do), and held her when she cried. We have consumed many drinks, and taken many walks, and sat on many park benches, and laid on the grass staring at the sky with her many times. We just live our lives - fully and together. Each day taken for what it is. But I make sure I do my part to ensure these things happen. Men need to be men no matter what a woman says. I would not want a woman who expected me to act like her. It just will not work. All of this stuff comes naturally to a man like me. In fact it is the easiest thing to do. It just takes a bit of confidence and courage. And the results are beyond amazing. I tell you all of this (if you are even reading at this point) because these things are not what I was told to do when I was a kid. I was told to look for a "good girl" (whatever the hell that is) and to be a nice guy (whatever the hell that is). This actually did me justice when I was younger, but as I got older, I had to - er, revise - my definition of "good" and "nice". We all do unless we marry that magical special someone and have Disney wedding and she stays with us forever. Good luck with that. I really hope this happens to you. The statistics indicate otherwise, but I do wish this for you. My girlfriend may get sick of me next week. Men are disposable in this way - always has been and even more so now than ever before. There is always some schmuck around the corner who will swoop in like a knight in shining armor and "save her" from you. There will always and forever be that guy in her background - make no mistake about it. You can ignore this or deal with it - it is completely your choice. Never forget that she too has to contend with this. It is easier than ever before for men to ditch one girl and get another. Not long ago (in my own lifetime) men had to work hard to woo a woman. Women have (oddly and inexplicably) made themselves more disposable and generic. Not sure why society is okay with this, but hey - their rules, their problem, their consequences, not mine. I just back away from all of that slowly and walk in the opposite direction. How do you handle all of this? Your job is to be so badass (in all the right ways) and humble, and good, and decent, and sexual, and raw, and honest, and athletic, and smart, and principled, and friendly, and romantic, that you will ruin her for the rest of her miserable life. If she leaves you for the next exciting guy who comes along, she will regret it big time. In 5, 7, 10 years down the road she will ache for what you gave her when her new guy turns out to be a loser. And you will be with the next woman. You will not revel in this. Gloating is ugly. Revenge is not kind. You will feel badly for her, but you will never touch her or talk to her again. She will make her choice and she will have to deal with the consequences of those choices. So, this is my long way of saying: Be a man - in the highest, noblest, most animalistic and best sense of the word; and I can guarantee you that she will love all the more for it. Your very next step is to set aside all that judgment. Let that go. It is toxic and dangerous and unrealistic and it will only push her to become afraid and lie to you more. The noblest thing to do is to give her the space to feel safe enough to be honest with you. Who cares about her ex? You will rock her world way better than that loser ever could. Now go get busy!
stillafool Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 What type of family does she have? Does she have loving parents?
Mr. Lucky Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 I hate that this guy got to have my wife in that way so many times, it's so hard to handle at times. I wake up in the middle of the night constantly with this. Abusive relationships are also so confusing and I constantly try to understand it, I have read about it and it has calmed me down. I'm confused - is she your GF or wife? And in general terms, how is your sexual relationship with her ? Mr. Lucky
Author jasond777 Posted June 25, 2014 Author Posted June 25, 2014 She is my fiance and that part of our relationship I prefer to keep to myself. Honestly I think it's more so that I'm worried if she could let someone force her and threaten her into things against her will in the past, that it'll happen again in the future. I don't think anyone can really help me with this unless they understand abusive relationships because it is quite complicated. Do I have doubts that she was in one? No not at all, she showed a lot of signs before she went deeper into detail and she did try to explain things earlier but way too subtly for me to pick up on. I love this woman and I want the best for her. My question will be this instead, can a woman who was in an abusive relationship for years live a healthy good life after? Is there something seriously wrong that could cause me pain later with her past? I don't think she enjoyed it at all, I do honestly believe that but you would have to actually know her so don't assume.
d0nnivain Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Since she's out of the abusive relationship & has now found you & returned to her religion, she's probably much stronger now & would not be as susceptible to manipulation / abuse going forward. As to how healthy she is now, that depends on whether she dealt with her past & got therapy.
Mr. Lucky Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Honestly I think it's more so that I'm worried if she could let someone force her and threaten her into things against her will in the past, that it'll happen again in the future. Isn't that a non-issue? Assuming the two of you are happily married, who would be in a position to do so? And were someone to try, good communication would allow you to know right away. I'm not sure if your angst is more about her past or her future ??? Mr. Lucky 1
Eivuwan Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 She's human. Look up information the abuse cycle and psychology of abuse victims. It is easy for outsiders to say oh you should have done this or that, but to her, she was probably just scared to death in the situation.
oldshirt Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Isn't that a non-issue? Assuming the two of you are happily married, who would be in a position to do so? And were someone to try, good communication would allow you to know right away. I'm not sure if your angst is more about her past or her future ??? Mr. Lucky I don't think it's a non-issue. I think it's a valid concern. About the only predictor of people's future behavior is their past behavior. As far as "who would be in a position to do so...?"??? Lot's of people. The world is full of manipulative, overly assertive, and even abusive people. And unless someone is planning on keeping their spouse locked up in the attic, they are going to be around these people all the time. I think the key for Jason to look at now is how firm is she in her own personal boundaries with other people and how strong does she stand up to other people now. Has she gained strength and assertiveness since those days and applies them to normal every day interactions with people or is she still overly compliant and accommodating to people now? The key component to that is does she accommodate and give in to people even when it goes against her wishes or values or better interests. If she is still showing signs of weakness and poor boundaries, then Jason has just cause be concerned and valid reason to reconsider the future of the relationship. If she on the other hand has learned and grown from this experience and has developed personal strength and integrity and no longer allows other to manipulate or push her around that is a different story.
Author jasond777 Posted June 27, 2014 Author Posted June 27, 2014 she does still show signs of weakness, which is a huge concern of mine. Even with me, she is passive and easy to control if I wanted to, which I do not want to. She has grown a lot and does stand up to people now, even me because I have taught her that she can and has to. I also bought her pepper spray to help her fight off any bad guys if such a thing were to happen.
Eivuwan Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 she does still show signs of weakness, which is a huge concern of mine. Even with me, she is passive and easy to control if I wanted to, which I do not want to. She has grown a lot and does stand up to people now, even me because I have taught her that she can and has to. I also bought her pepper spray to help her fight off any bad guys if such a thing were to happen. Did she go to therapy to heal from her abusive past?
oldshirt Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 Those are very bright red flags flapping vigorously in the wind. You have legitimate reasons to be concerned and you have good right to be having second thoughts and the future of this R. It's darn near impossible for men or women to have respect and admiration for some who is weak and easily controlled. If you can control and manipulate her, so can others. You may choose not to control her for nefarious purposes but others will. It's also very concerning she has not sought therapy for abuse. That means either she really doesn't consider it abuse and that is just a line she uses with you. Or it means she's irresponsible and not taking proper care of herself and dealing with her issues. You will be the one paying the price for that. She will be acting all goody-goody with you and having all these sexual and relationship hang ups with you and not meeting your needs even though she was a porn star in bed with others. That is simply not right.
oldshirt Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 ......and in regards to the pepper spray, that is purely false security on your part and you are kidding yourself if you think that is going to protect her. Bad guys simply aren't going to introduce themselves as her mugger and rapist for the day and then stand there patiently while she digs around in the bottom of her purse to find it. Women take 5 minutes to find the Chap Stick in their purses and they use that 10 times a day. And predators and manipulators don't use frontal assault brute force. They get permission and consent. Her BF didn't rape her. She complied with his wishes for years. It was only after they broke up for good that she has all these stories of evil domination and coersion.
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