JSheba Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 I have been in a really good relationship for over five years. Recently though we have had our disagreements, often over trivia. I have been trying to inject some light heartedness in order to combat the negativity. We were in a restaurant the other day and she wasn't wearing a bra, so I playfully asked her to lean forward so that I could look down her top. There was no chance of anyone else in the restaurant seeing anything, or even knowing what was going on. Anyway, she took great exception to my suggestion and said that no woman would be other than insulted at my suggestion. I was taken aback, was it really an outlandish suggestion in the circumstances, or is it a sign that our relationship is heading southwards? I should add that, up to recently, we have had a very active, normal, healthy sexual relationship.
d0nnivain Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Like many other things some women would have got a charge out of what you said; others would be insulted. Your GF clearly didn't like it so apologize & don't do it again.
Els Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 I have been in a really good relationship for over five years. Recently though we have had our disagreements, often over trivia. I have been trying to inject some light heartedness in order to combat the negativity. Okay. I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with what you did... but if there were already recent problems in the R then it probably wasn't the smartest thing to say. A sudden and concentrated spat of 'trivial' problems are rarely ever truly 'trivial' - usually they stem from some underlying issue either in the R or in the person's life, that just bubble to the surface during trivial moments. So, wrong way to 'try and inject lightheartedness' during troubled times. Instead probably better to talk to her and see if there's anything bigger going on, and if you want to 'lighten the mood', just be more caring and thoughtful (little gestures like breakfast in bed, etc). 3
TXGuy Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Like many other things some women would have got a charge out of what you said; others would be insulted. Your GF clearly didn't like it so apologize & don't do it again. You've been together five years, at worst she should have brushed it off. At best, she should have been into it. Do NOT apologize. It was a 'compliance' test. She is intentionally being unreasonable to see if you will put up with it. Apologizing is failing the test. 1
central Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 It's a sign that the relationship is dead - just not yet buried. She's no longer into you, since she won't even do some harmless flirting. Why go braless to tempt you, only to shoot you down? She's looking for excuses to be a bitch, and will dump you soon if you don't do so first. 2
thekid36 Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 I have been in a really good relationship for over five years. Recently though we have had our disagreements, often over trivia. I have been trying to inject some light heartedness in order to combat the negativity. We were in a restaurant the other day and she wasn't wearing a bra, so I playfully asked her to lean forward so that I could look down her top. There was no chance of anyone else in the restaurant seeing anything, or even knowing what was going on. Anyway, she took great exception to my suggestion and said that no woman would be other than insulted at my suggestion. I was taken aback, was it really an outlandish suggestion in the circumstances, or is it a sign that our relationship is heading southwards? I should add that, up to recently, we have had a very active, normal, healthy sexual relationship. I don't necessarily think that your suggestion was insulting. I think you were trying to be playful. I don't think it was unfair for her to not be intrigued by it. Sometimes, a woman may not wear a bra without trying to be suggestive. What is most surprising is that she seems to have spoke for all women when saying that all women would be insulted. Not sure what this says about the relationship. She could be not happy and thus not looking for anything sexual. She also may just have been only offended at that specific moment and not think anything bad at all about things with you in general. Communicating your concerns may be the best route to take. 2
RonaldS Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Hahaha, this is why I love this forum.... OP: 'How do I get two girls to have a three-way with me on the good of my car in a grocery store parking lot?' Poster reply: 'Well, first you have to get......etc etc' OP: 'Oh....well, I can't even get a girl to talk to me.' Yeah, guys....let's learn to get a girl first, and then start figuring out how you're going to live out every little twisted desire that goes through your minds. Lot of guys here trying to learn calculus without even being able to add or subtract.
Trimmer Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Hahaha, this is why I love this forum.... OP: 'How do I get two girls to have a three-way with me on the good of my car in a grocery store parking lot?' Poster reply: 'Well, first you have to get......etc etc' OP: 'Oh....well, I can't even get a girl to talk to me.' Yeah, guys....let's learn to get a girl first, and then start figuring out how you're going to live out every little twisted desire that goes through your minds. Lot of guys here trying to learn calculus without even being able to add or subtract. Did you post this in the wrong thread by accident? I think I'm moderately good at figuring out metaphors, but I can't figure out how this applies to this thread. 2
ascendotum Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) It's a sign that the relationship is dead - just not yet buried. She's no longer into you, since she won't even do some harmless flirting. Why go braless to tempt you, only to shoot you down? She's looking for excuses to be a bitch, and will dump you soon if you don't do so first. I think your prognosis a bit dire, but I agree with the sentiment. In the OP's shoes I wouldn't have apologized for what he intended to be a playful/flirty request, and would be very disappointed in her indignant reaction. Its those sorts of spontaneous & flirty little moves that help keep the passion alive in a LTR. I would have thought most women in LTRs who really love their man would be rapt to have their man still horny for them. Surprised to read your sex life is pretty good. Hmm maybe just an off day. Edited June 25, 2014 by ascendotum
Els Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 I think your prognosis a bit dire, but I agree with the sentiment. In the OP's shoes I wouldn't have apologized for what he intended to be a playful/flirty request, and would be very disappointed in her indignant reaction. Its those sorts of spontaneous & flirty little moves that help keep the passion alive in a LTR. I would have thought most women in LTRs who really love their man would be rapt to have their man still horny for them. These moves are good (for some women, in the right circumstances/manner) in a happy LTR. They are iffy at best in a LTR that has unresolved issues and is going through a rocky period. The way to 'revive' such LTRs is usually not what the OP did. I also suspect that his partner is not perceiving the 'trivial' issues as 'trivially' as he does, and that is likely to be a big part of the problem... 1
Radu Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 I have been in a really good relationship for over five years. Recently though we have had our disagreements, often over trivia. I have been trying to inject some light heartedness in order to combat the negativity. We were in a restaurant the other day and she wasn't wearing a bra, so I playfully asked her to lean forward so that I could look down her top. There was no chance of anyone else in the restaurant seeing anything, or even knowing what was going on. Anyway, she took great exception to my suggestion and said that no woman would be other than insulted at my suggestion. I was taken aback, was it really an outlandish suggestion in the circumstances, or is it a sign that our relationship is heading southwards? I should add that, up to recently, we have had a very active, normal, healthy sexual relationship. There is a problem in a relationship, or it's dead. Did she voice any complaints ? If not, i would be more concerned about that. You want a woman who will come out and say 'well, i'm unhappy about X, Y and Z' and not one who becomes a passive-aggressive b*tch because you can't mindread. 2
d0nnivain Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 You've been together five years, at worst she should have brushed it off. At best, she should have been into it. Do NOT apologize. It was a 'compliance' test. She is intentionally being unreasonable to see if you will put up with it. Apologizing is failing the test. What the heck does that mean? In a healthy balanced relationship that will stand the test of time if you upset the other person, you apologize. If you want to play stupid power games, you are never going to get anywhere. 2
Radu Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 In a healthy balanced relationship that will stand the test of time, a partner who behaved in a certain way for 5yrs will not change quickly and pick minor fights while the sexual relationship goes bad ... at least they will try to give a logical reason for their grievances. This is hardly a healthy and balanced relationship right now. PS: My cousin got divorced because 'you did not bring me a flower in the maternity ward'. Her mother had been pushing for it for quite a while, when she found out he wasn't rich.
d0nnivain Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Radu I'm not saying the OPs relationship was perfect. I just didn't understand TXGuy's response. Apologies are not power games. 1
serial muse Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Yeah I suspect there's a lot more to this story than "recently we've had disagreements over trivia", "I've been trying to interject lightheartedness", and "my GF of 5 years suddenly took exception to something sexual I said". I think that for anyone to offer truly useful insight, OP, we'd need more context here. What's really been going on? What is the nature of these trivial disagreements? Is it one person sniping more often or equal-opportunity sniping? Any other extenuating circumstances that might be at play? Without knowing more about your specific situation, you'll mostly get people projecting. 2
TXGuy Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 What the heck does that mean? In a healthy balanced relationship that will stand the test of time if you upset the other person, you apologize. If you want to play stupid power games, you are never going to get anywhere. That means that it is not necessarily a good idea to try to appease a person who is being unreasonable. Once you start giving positive reinforcement to unreasonable behavior, you can expect more of it. Worse than that, trying to placate her can cause her to lose respect for him and further turn her off. I don't expect all (or even many) women to agree, but I'm convinced it is a solid position to take. Note I am not saying never apologize. If you really screw up, own it and apologize. But don't apologize when you did nothing wrong. 1
Author JSheba Posted June 25, 2014 Author Posted June 25, 2014 Yes Serial Muse, I take your point about context, but what I actually wrote was, "Recently though we have had our disagreements, often over trivia". So it wasn't exclusively "trivia". Context: We had a brief break-up a couple of months ago and since then we have been working on mending fences. No third parties involved, the problem centered on our interests, in common and individually, and the amount of time we spend together. Since the break-up there have been definite tensions on both sides and sex has deteriorated for us both. The restaurant episode was a (clumsy?) attempt by me to generate a light atmosphere at the start of the meal, rather than engage in possibly contentious issues.
d0nnivain Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 That means that it is not necessarily a good idea to try to appease a person who is being unreasonable. Once you start giving positive reinforcement to unreasonable behavior, you can expect more of it. Worse than that, trying to placate her can cause her to lose respect for him and further turn her off. I don't expect all (or even many) women to agree, but I'm convinced it is a solid position to take. Note I am not saying never apologize. If you really screw up, own it and apologize. But don't apologize when you did nothing wrong. That I agree with. I read your 1st post as never apologize no matter what. I think apologies when deserved are healthy. That's different then appeasement.
serial muse Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Yes Serial Muse, I take your point about context, but what I actually wrote was, "Recently though we have had our disagreements, often over trivia". So it wasn't exclusively "trivia". Context: We had a brief break-up a couple of months ago and since then we have been working on mending fences. No third parties involved, the problem centered on our interests, in common and individually, and the amount of time we spend together. Since the break-up there have been definite tensions on both sides and sex has deteriorated for us both. The restaurant episode was a (clumsy?) attempt by me to generate a light atmosphere at the start of the meal, rather than engage in possibly contentious issues. Who actually broke up with whom? What I'm getting from this is that when you sat down to eat there was existing tension and you wanted it to go away so decided to try to be cute and funny and asked to look down her shirt. That could have gone well if you guys were in a place of trust/light-hearted fun, but I'm guessing you didn't really read the room there. That's not to blame you, but to suggest that perhaps you two really aren't on the same page about how to deal with the existing tension and uncertainty, and wishing it away or bulldozing over it with good cheer appears not to be working. Perhaps it's simply that your needs right now are diametrically opposed: You need to restore a sense of fun; but perhaps what she needs is to know that the uncertainties are/have been acknowledged by both of you and taken seriously before she can feel lighthearted about things again. I would just point out that your OP didn't really make the situation clear; it sounded from that post like things were hunky dory and then out of the blue she got mad at you for something that should be fun and sexy between two longtime partners. Doesn't seem quite fair, does it? But it does make her look bad and shrewish. Is that what you think of her? I guess the question I'd post to you, OP, is whether you really think this relationship is recovering from that kind of big blip it had. I don't know what the nature was of the breakup, or who broke it off, or whether there are a lot of damaged feelings and uncertainty about the other person's true feelings that are being swept under the rug, but it sure seems like a possibility. So I'd just ask you whether you really think you two can get past that stuff, and if you've come up with a plan, together, to do so. Edited June 25, 2014 by serial muse 1
Author JSheba Posted June 25, 2014 Author Posted June 25, 2014 Sorry Serial Muse, but I can't figure out how to show selective quotes from your last message. So, using the numbering of your 4 paragraphs- Para1: It was mutual. Para2: Yes, you are probably correct, but it wasn't an attempt by me to avoid the issues, rather it was an attempt to lower the temperature. Para3: There is a balance to be struck between the detail and the essentials, I tried to give an unbiased account of the essentials (as I saw them). I think the world of her. Para4: No, sadly she broke off the relationship earlier today.
Els Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) Yes Serial Muse, I take your point about context, but what I actually wrote was, "Recently though we have had our disagreements, often over trivia". So it wasn't exclusively "trivia". Context: We had a brief break-up a couple of months ago and since then we have been working on mending fences. No third parties involved, the problem centered on our interests, in common and individually, and the amount of time we spend together. Since the break-up there have been definite tensions on both sides and sex has deteriorated for us both. The restaurant episode was a (clumsy?) attempt by me to generate a light atmosphere at the start of the meal, rather than engage in possibly contentious issues. These problems do not seem 'trivial' to me, OP. I'm not going to rake you over the coals for what you said; really, I think her response to it was slightly overboard and she should be talking to you about the real issues rather than making it all about your little harmless comment. BUT. If you want to mend things, this is not the way to go about it. Even if your partner didn't overreact, it doesn't change the fact that such comments don't help a broken R. You two really need to dig down to the deep issues, focus on resolving them. If you really want to generate a light atmosphere at any time, try something romantic (complimenting her, little gestures of affection, slipping your arm around her waist etc) rather than overtly sexual. The overtly sexual stuff can wait until things have been mended. To fix issues in the bedroom you need to start outside the bedroom. She isn't just going to magically get passionate and turned on because you made a comment about looking down her shirt. Especially if the problem centered around you two not spending enough time together, you would usually need to reconnect emotionally and romantically first. Edit: If she broke things off today, she probably just thinks the R was not mend-able. Time to move on... but you can certainly learn something from this thread for your next R. Edited June 26, 2014 by Elswyth
serial muse Posted June 26, 2014 Posted June 26, 2014 Sorry Serial Muse, but I can't figure out how to show selective quotes from your last message. So, using the numbering of your 4 paragraphs- Para1: It was mutual. Para2: Yes, you are probably correct, but it wasn't an attempt by me to avoid the issues, rather it was an attempt to lower the temperature. Para3: There is a balance to be struck between the detail and the essentials, I tried to give an unbiased account of the essentials (as I saw them). I think the world of her. Para4: No, sadly she broke off the relationship earlier today. I'm very sorry to hear that. And I apologize if my reply to you came off as harsh; I was just trying to suss things out to give a thoughtful rather than knee-jerk reply, but I certainly didn't mean to imply that I think you're all to blame! Wish you the best.
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