BlueValentine Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 I am reentering dating after a divorce. I met a guy through mutual friends. We are all well over 30. He asked me out for a movie, then later added drinks first. I went. After some time talking and a couple if drinks, he kissed me, a lot. I was a little surprised but actually liked his boldness. Went to the movie, more subtle touches, a little more kissing. Kissed good night. He mentioned a second outing, but we didn't set a date. Since we had been friends for a short while, I suggested a quick drink after work one night. Ended up lasting hours. On the way to the cars he pulled me aside and we kissed quite a bit again. When we got to my car, we kissed and joked around for another 30+ minutes. We went to lunch with our friends. He attempted to date someone else in our group but she was not interested. Unfortunately, I knew all the details, but I respected his honesty when he disclosed this to me. He said he was definitely over her. This girl loves attention and will do anything to be at the center of it. She knew our friend and I had gone out a couple of times by then. She started flirting with him and making comments that required a compliment on her "beauty". He was pretty good about being neutral until her persistence got the best of him. The next 15 min I was just disappointed. After lunch, I wanted to be gracious and text him, it's ok he's still into her, let's just be friends. He sent me back a novel that he was totally over her and he didn't think we were dating just a couple of friends hanging out after work. First, I never said dating, though I believe by definition it would gave been correct to use it. Second, what is "hanging out"? I thought that was for teenagers and very young adults, not divorced, established adults. Third, I was so insulted that I just replied let's be friends. He never responded back. Note, this was a drinking lunch and we all had a couple. I read our messages and felt bad, maybe my sentiments were misconstrued. I text him back with an apology for texting after a few drinks. He thanked me, and all seemed ok. A few days later he asked me about my schedule. I am pretty busy. Something changed and I became available. He asked me if I wanted to get together and study for an upcoming certification exam. I said sure. The way the test is structured we couldn't study together, so he asked if I wanted to meet up anyway. I said sure. He has confirmed 2 more times since then. I like this guy but I am annoyed how he handled the situation. I see maturity red flags. I want opinions, is my perspective getting old? Do 30+ yo "hang out"? I am just in for an annoyance by dating someone that entertains our needy friends needs? I don't mind he was or is attracted to this person, but I am frustrated by knowing her feelings toward him, and her desire to mess with people's feelings so she can feel like the best thing in the room. "Dating" is a pain, I cannot stand all these layers of ambiguity and games. 2
soccerrprp Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 I have dated my share of women and never heard the words "hang out" when wanting to date. Those words sound awfully non-committal and laced with intentional uncertainty or worse case, "friend-zone" or FWB vibes. 20s, 30s, 40s+.....hanging out does not translate to dating for me. 8
FitChick Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 Just tell him that being newly single, dating is a priority for you right now, so you might not have time to hang out with friends. Then start dating others and tell your buddy how real men treat real women on dates and how you find it thrilling. If this chick is in the picture and still acting the same way, I might say something like, "Isn't it sad she is so insecure that she has to be the center of attention all the time? I wonder why guys don't ask her out." 1
Author BlueValentine Posted June 23, 2014 Author Posted June 23, 2014 To be fair, he did ask for 3rd "date" just before I said to be friends. He also takes my arm when we walk and intertwines it with his. On our first "date/hang out" he asked me if he had a shot with me. The whole hang out thing threw me for a loop. I agree being upfront is best, I guess this was a sanity check for me. Unfortunately, she's part of the friend package and I did make it clear that I do not care for her neediness or folks that humor her while she does it. Thank you!
TheBladeRunner Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) I have dated my share of women and never heard the words "hang out" when wanting to date. Those words sound awfully non-committal and laced with intentional uncertainty or worse case, "friend-zone" or FWB vibes. 20s, 30s, 40s+.....hanging out does not translate to dating for me. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yes, this! I feel the same, when I ask for a date, I ask for a date. I have several female friends I hang out with, have drinks, kids play, do stuff, etc. I hang out with friends, I am looking for more when I date. I am nobody special, but ladies: if a MAN wants to hang out he is NOT man enough to ask for a date. Edited June 23, 2014 by TheBladeRunner Can't spell
spiderowl Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 Difficult one! I don't think you can presume that the other person would define it as dating, unless you are both agreed that is what is happening. On the other hand, him saying you were just hanging out is a bit insulting, given that he was clearly trying to get sexual with you. Is he really just hanging out with you for a fling? He sounds a bit of a womaniser. Tread carefully I think. You could probably do better. 2
BlueIris Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 ... He sent me back a novel that he was totally over her and he didn't think we were dating just a couple of friends hanging out after work. ... I like this guy but I am annoyed how he handled the situation. I see maturity red flags. I agree with you. And it isn't flirty girls' fault. It's his. Unless he is an absolute riot as a friend, I wouldn't bother with him. And since you're "just a couple of friends" I sure wouldn't kiss him again. External measures don't matter. Your personal measures and meanings do. "Hanging out" is intentionally loose and nebulous. 2
DArtagnan2 Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 probably the fact you were all "hanging out" with friends, he didn't consider it a date. To me, a date is two people doing something together, not a bunch of friends getting together for drinks and eats. With that said, you two had been on a couple of dates already. If it was me, and I asked a girl I had already been on two dates with, to "hang out" with me and my friends, it would be because I wanted her to meet my friends. But that doesn't mean that the girl I bring with me, needs to sit by the side while I entertain another girls annoying pestering. I get his comment about it not being a date, but at the same time, I believe that somehow, he should have brushed off that attention hog and just focused on you, him and his other friends. That when asked, he would have chose his words more carefully to make sure to make you feel more comfortable about the situation and not put you and/or he in that situation in the first place.
Assasda Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 I think both of you were a little to blame. -You got a little jealous of the other woman, and you should have handled it a little better. The lets be friends text, doesnt require a response. - He was also wrong for trying to downplay what you guys had. Even if he calls it hanging out. It was still a date, and I think he tried to downplay it, to save face and not be embarrassed, after you asked him to just be friends. I think it could still work out for you 2. Just a bit more gentle commuication. - I personally think it doesnt matter if you calling it hanging out or dating, because a hang-out can turn into a very pleasant date
CaliGypsy Posted June 23, 2014 Posted June 23, 2014 I think he was being disingenuous. Maybe that particular occasion wasn't an actual date. However, you are the woman he's currently dating and he was not mindful Enough of that. He very well might be over her, but was flattered at the attention she was giving him. He should have just owned it and apologized to you. Instead he deflected with the "just hanging out" excuse. Most of us don't spend a lot of time kissing people we are just hanging out with. 2
jbelle6 Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 No, I agree with you, the term "hanging out" is rather lame, it also is not what you two did, it was a date. If a guy expressed interest in me, then in front of me expressed interest to someone else, I would still be polite to him if he is a nice guy but I would not date him. Just find that tacky. I can't imagine going on a date with a man then flirting with his friend in front of his face. Rude. 1
thekid36 Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 I am reentering dating after a divorce. I met a guy through mutual friends. We are all well over 30. He asked me out for a movie, then later added drinks first. I went. After some time talking and a couple if drinks, he kissed me, a lot. I was a little surprised but actually liked his boldness. Went to the movie, more subtle touches, a little more kissing. Kissed good night. He mentioned a second outing, but we didn't set a date. Since we had been friends for a short while, I suggested a quick drink after work one night. Ended up lasting hours. On the way to the cars he pulled me aside and we kissed quite a bit again. When we got to my car, we kissed and joked around for another 30+ minutes. We went to lunch with our friends. He attempted to date someone else in our group but she was not interested. Unfortunately, I knew all the details, but I respected his honesty when he disclosed this to me. He said he was definitely over her. This girl loves attention and will do anything to be at the center of it. She knew our friend and I had gone out a couple of times by then. She started flirting with him and making comments that required a compliment on her "beauty". He was pretty good about being neutral until her persistence got the best of him. The next 15 min I was just disappointed. After lunch, I wanted to be gracious and text him, it's ok he's still into her, let's just be friends. He sent me back a novel that he was totally over her and he didn't think we were dating just a couple of friends hanging out after work. First, I never said dating, though I believe by definition it would gave been correct to use it. Second, what is "hanging out"? I thought that was for teenagers and very young adults, not divorced, established adults. Third, I was so insulted that I just replied let's be friends. He never responded back. Note, this was a drinking lunch and we all had a couple. I read our messages and felt bad, maybe my sentiments were misconstrued. I text him back with an apology for texting after a few drinks. He thanked me, and all seemed ok. A few days later he asked me about my schedule. I am pretty busy. Something changed and I became available. He asked me if I wanted to get together and study for an upcoming certification exam. I said sure. The way the test is structured we couldn't study together, so he asked if I wanted to meet up anyway. I said sure. He has confirmed 2 more times since then. I like this guy but I am annoyed how he handled the situation. I see maturity red flags. I want opinions, is my perspective getting old? Do 30+ yo "hang out"? I am just in for an annoyance by dating someone that entertains our needy friends needs? I don't mind he was or is attracted to this person, but I am frustrated by knowing her feelings toward him, and her desire to mess with people's feelings so she can feel like the best thing in the room. "Dating" is a pain, I cannot stand all these layers of ambiguity and games. This again brings up the whole thing about volition that was discussed in a thread earlier. There should not have to be wild word games. Should not matter what the meeting technically is called. What matters most is what the person should/should not do if there is any sort of attraction involved. Call me crazy. But, I would not flirt with another woman if I was interested in someone specific. No matter what someone did/did not do to flirt with me. No matter all else. If you feel a little uncomfortable about his initial reactions, then perhaps it is best to not initiate anything else with him at this point. You have to go with your instinct and do what is best for you. 1
Author BlueValentine Posted June 24, 2014 Author Posted June 24, 2014 Thank you CaliGypsy. By definition we had 2 dates and planned a third. Disappointing he would call them "hanging out" because as you said, I don't kiss and compliment and pay to hang out with someone when not on a date. Just 2 of us, no other folks. There may have been something on his end since I did cancel the 3rd date and say let's be friends. I think it was honest. Him giving into her need for constant flattery would've bothered me and I'd rather be friends. Not sure what to do for this next "hang out". I plan on seeing if this is just friends as I wanted or if he shrugs it off and acts like more. Suppose if it's the latter, honesty is best & i am not interested in spending what little off time I have kissing a friend when I could be missing out on an actual date. 1
Author BlueValentine Posted June 24, 2014 Author Posted June 24, 2014 Thank you everyone! I wasn't sure if I missed some dating rule change, but appears I didn't. There are mature and upfront guys out there. Thank you for renewing my hope! :-)
Priv Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Welcome back to the dating world! -Great date, lost of kisses. You both like each other. -Lunch, you know an ex flame of is present (heightened awareness by you) -He keeps his cool but caves in a bit after a while (your insecurities which might cloud your judgement, his maybe possible residual feelings) -You pretty much breakup with him after by saying you it is ok to be friends (again your insecurities) -responds in kind by saying you were just hanging out (ego saving/talking) -You apologise (but not really, because he calls whatever you have together hanging out) -He contacts you to get together (he still likes you) You are both insecure about each others feelings but very much like each other. That is dating pretty much, no age limit. Being hungup about semantics is not very productive. It is no red flag. If there is one it should be the other way around... You should take his invite and just laugh about the whole episode after some other kisses (was he really ignoring you/totally flirting with her btw? not very clear about that) Edited June 24, 2014 by Priv 1
thekid36 Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Thank you everyone! I wasn't sure if I missed some dating rule change, but appears I didn't. There are mature and upfront guys out there. Thank you for renewing my hope! :-) Some things simply do not permanently change. No matter how much time may temporarily pass. You have to make your own rules.
Author BlueValentine Posted June 24, 2014 Author Posted June 24, 2014 Assasada and Priv - thank you for the feedback. Correction, not an over reaction or insecurity about our mutual friend and her flirtacious ways. Since we had had only two dates and he was upfront that he was attracted to her and tried to date her previously, as an adult courtesy, I backed off. It did not seem like he was over her at all. Since I did have a good time on the dates and we are all friends, I sent a very simple and gracious let's just be friends text. I sent the friends text, not him. He replied (I did not ask him to nor expect it) and he wrote extensively. His response did illicit a response from me, he asked a specific question to which I replied that I thought friends was best at this point in time. After that he did not respond back. Again, I did not ask him to nor expect he would. An adult may reply and agree that friends was better than nothing even if he thought I was wrong. Even a simple ok would suffice. More so to acknowledge that the message was even received, text is not always reliable. Otherwise, I think Priv hit some points that I was curious about. I have no regrets about our time out, just think the use of arbitrary and ambiguous terms is immature. I was in no way trying to label anything, but as soon as he did, it struck a chord that maybe he is too immature. I only mention the word date to point out that "hanging out" is immature and "date" would have been a more appropriate term, but again, not expected. But if you're going to use a label, please try to use a correct one. Thanks again to everyone!
Author BlueValentine Posted June 24, 2014 Author Posted June 24, 2014 Priv to answer your question, she was going on and on about herself, begging for a compliment about herself. Eventually he gave her some. I was annoyed because she knew he and I went out and she has a weird competitive thing with any woman so I felt her doing this knowing he and I just started to "date" was rude. I was annoyed with him for giving her the attention she was begging for. I was annoyed with his immaturity about the situation. I totally respect a guy that can have a girl falling all over him and he can brush her off, not be rude, but not entertain the pettiness. That's not insecurity it's just knowing what qualities matter to me and I am not a fan of a guy that falls for the damsel in distress game. Also if a girl let's you spend money on her and then puts you in the friends zone, shouldn't you have some self respect to evaluate the situation and see she is just playing you? I guess I just don't get it.
Priv Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Priv to answer your question, she was going on and on about herself, begging for a compliment about herself. Eventually he gave her some. Well, I guess it is a situation of having to have been there. But it sounds like a very uncomfortable situation for the both of you. I think many people including me would not really know how to act in the presence of your mutual ´friend?!?'. You are totally in your rights to be frustrated and annoyed, but I think your date is unduly getting the grunt of it. I sent the friends text, not him. He replied (I did not ask him to nor expect it) and he wrote extensively. His response did illicit a response from me, he asked a specific question to which I replied that I thought friends was best at this point in time. After that he did not respond back. Again, I did not ask him to nor expect he would. An adult may reply and agree that friends was better than nothing even if he thought I was wrong. You are wrong here. You now friendzoned him. Being friends with someone you want to date/have dated is not better than nothing. It is worse for a lot of people (just read all the topics about being friendzoned/orbiters etc here on LS). Not accepting that is a mature thing to do. I can't relate to the hanging out vs dating thing. Yea, it is clear you two were dating. He called it hanging out to save his self esteem after being rejected by you. I would find that a non-issue, especially as the rejector. You went on 2 dates, everything said and done is magnified 10 times because of insecurities, not knowing each other well enough or in this capacity, and hormones. The semantics and him not accepting friendship is really not a red flag. But it indeed does not sound like you are compatible with these issues starting up so soon. 1
thekid36 Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Priv to answer your question, she was going on and on about herself, begging for a compliment about herself. Eventually he gave her some. I was annoyed because she knew he and I went out and she has a weird competitive thing with any woman so I felt her doing this knowing he and I just started to "date" was rude. I was annoyed with him for giving her the attention she was begging for. I was annoyed with his immaturity about the situation. I totally respect a guy that can have a girl falling all over him and he can brush her off, not be rude, but not entertain the pettiness. That's not insecurity it's just knowing what qualities matter to me and I am not a fan of a guy that falls for the damsel in distress game. Also if a girl let's you spend money on her and then puts you in the friends zone, shouldn't you have some self respect to evaluate the situation and see she is just playing you? I guess I just don't get it. Hope I am not intruding because this post is not specifically directed at me. I apologize in advance if I am. But, I think this is what I was getting at in my earlier post. If you were annoyed, and know what qualities matter to you, then why not trust your initial instinct? I may be naïve, but just keep going back to the whole why would someone who is really interested in you show someone else any kind of attention at all to someone else while with the person he/she is interested in? No matter whether it is called a date or hanging out. That is just irrelevant to me. 1
HappyLove Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 If he's all over you and you're just "friends" then you have to assume this is how he is with all his "friends". Sounds to me like you're looking for a mature grown man to date. He sounds like a waste of time. If he can do that in your face I could only imagine what goes on when you're not there. I used to think older men were more mature but seems A LOT of 35+ and 40+ have much more growing up to do! It's so sad out there these days! 2
Author BlueValentine Posted June 25, 2014 Author Posted June 25, 2014 Though I truly respect and appreciate the feedback and opinions here. It feels like so many responses are so far off topic. I see a lot of pyschoanalytics based on very limited information. I gave a synopsis to start because if my friend asks me for advice I want to have a reasonable starting point to be able to ask questions before I proceed with advice. Funny that most folks didn't ask me anything but presumed to make judgments that are so far off base and irrelevant to the post. Essentially, there were a couple of questions - I think some of the early posts addressed those. I suppose I can Frankenstein an answer to all from the various posts, but I do have to say as a newcomer, I will likely tread lightly here. Good information, but not very applicable judgments that I could draw a lesson or meaningful opinion from. Thanks for taking the time to read and respond. I appreciate your time and efforts. :-)
thekid36 Posted June 25, 2014 Posted June 25, 2014 Though I truly respect and appreciate the feedback and opinions here. It feels like so many responses are so far off topic. I see a lot of pyschoanalytics based on very limited information. I gave a synopsis to start because if my friend asks me for advice I want to have a reasonable starting point to be able to ask questions before I proceed with advice. Funny that most folks didn't ask me anything but presumed to make judgments that are so far off base and irrelevant to the post. Essentially, there were a couple of questions - I think some of the early posts addressed those. I suppose I can Frankenstein an answer to all from the various posts, but I do have to say as a newcomer, I will likely tread lightly here. Good information, but not very applicable judgments that I could draw a lesson or meaningful opinion from. Thanks for taking the time to read and respond. I appreciate your time and efforts. :-) With all due respect. You came to an online community to get advice about a topic that you had a question about. None of us are professional psychoanalysts. Not that I know of, at least! Nor, should we simply pretend to be. I think that the advice you have on this or any of these threads is based on our own opinions and explicit experiences. Does not mean that you have to listen to it or else. Just means that we find enough interest to want to give our own two cents. If you ask a question, then there cannot be expected to be answers that are always going to make sense to you. Expecting this really would not be fair to be honest. Whether within an online community or not. You must not know the absolute answer on your own, either. Otherwise, you would not even be here at all. Sometimes, there is truth in what we never even thought of at first. Even if it comes from what is outside of the box. You seemed to like some of the posts. Based on those you specifically addressed within your own replies. So for whatever reason, you must have had an interest in some of what has been said. The beauty of this place is that you do not have to respond to what you wish not to. Sticking around might give you some helpful advice as you go forward. But, if you do choose to tread more lightly, I really do wish you all the best.
Author BlueValentine Posted June 25, 2014 Author Posted June 25, 2014 thekid36 - I agree that I came here for advice on questions I had. I did not come on here for folks to attempt to pyschoanalyze me or the situation. I appreciate and really did enjoy many of the posts. It's just funny that when I ask about terms such as "hanging out" vs "dating" folks ran with being insecure - how do you get to that conclusion based on a question about whether I am getting old and missed a rule change somewhere? It's more me thinking aloud, if I give advice I like to relate it to the question not try to presume I can be in someone else's head or situation. Least I find people are more receptive to a new point of view if you don't overshoot the target. That's all, not trying to be mean or insinuate anything. This was my first time here and I was very impressed with the maturity and diversity of posts, I just think in my case, less info is more? Thanks for the check, I appreciate it. :-)
Recommended Posts