Is therapy necessary?

[dichotomy]

Not all therapist and therapy is good.

 

After a bad abusive marriage - the first therapist my now wife (then just separated) met with said to go have lots of casual NSA sex.

 

That said - if I was dating someone who had been through some major losses in life, divorce, death, abuse and NOT had any therapy it would be a red flag to me. But if their life was fairly normal and ordinary - why go?

[carhill]

OP, one suggestion, if you have strong feelings about this topic and feel that psychological counseling can be beneficial, is to ask a prospective partner at some point how they feel about such therapies. If a woman I was dating asked me such a question, she'd have no problem getting an honest answer. I think it's a fair question. All one has to do is listen and accept the answer.

[Zapbasket]

To the OP: its wise to want to be with someone who is humble enough to seek

Help for whatever affliction they may have.... I think what you might really be seeking on your checklist is someone that is stable in mind and spirit and willing to be humble in seeking treatment should it come to that.

 

Yes, this is it. Someone with humility, which I would define as a habit of asking himself, "How might I have handled _____ better; how can I learn from this; what actions can I take to do this better next time?" None of my exes possessed humility, and that coupled with a lack of self-awareness meant they never saw their part in things in their lives that weren't to their liking. I think it takes a lot of humility to admit you don't have all the answers, but you want more answers than you currently have and you recognize you somehow are getting in your own way in obtaining those answers on your own. This is often what drives someone to see a therapist. So in the end, it's less about the going to see a therapist and more about the character traits (NOT the issues) that might lead a person to seek one out.

[Zapbasket]

Just because they went to therapy doesn't mean they'll be a good relationship partner.

 

True. Good point.

 

 

Dichotomy:

if I was dating someone who had been through some major losses in life, divorce, death, abuse and NOT had any therapy it would be a red flag to me. But if their life was fairly normal and ordinary - why go?

 

Yes. Your reply made me realize one reason why it occurred to me to include "has had psychotherapy" as a desirable trait in a partner: because then we can talk, intellectually, about our emotional experience. And I realized: that's not the number-one important thing, is it? True, I DO like to intellectualize / philosophize about feelings and what makes a meaningful life and relationships, but that's not the most important thing. Most important is someone who has the traits of a good romantic partner--empathy, communicativeness, humility, capacity to invest and commit, etc.--which *ideally* are present irrespective of whether someone has seen a psychotherapist in adulthood or not. The "psychotherapy" piece is, as you say, only an area of concern if someone has undergone an emotional trauma or several and NOT had any therapy. These boards are full of stories about partners who suffer some form of PTSD and the relationship suffers because they have not gotten help for it.

[Zapbasket]

I just found this post from KathyM in a thread I started back in January, entitled, "How do you know whether someone is a good romantic investment?" This seems like a great list and I'm going to use it as my starting point for a questionnaire / checklist of qualities I want in a romantic partner (and other relationships, too). Back in January when you originally posted this, my head was still too swirling in confusion and grief to really do anything with what you said. Now I am ready, I think, if not quite yet to start dating again, then to seriously suss out what I'm looking for in my relationships, so that I'm not again detracted from what I want by what appears to be what I want.

 

For one, you look at how they resolve conflicts/disagreements. Do they blame others and refuse to accept any responsibility for their actions, or is it always someone else's fault when something goes wrong?

 

 

You look at their level of self control and discipline. Do they have a good work ethic? Do they have goals and ambition? Do they exhibit poor self control in one or more areas of their life?

 

 

I know some will not agree with me on this, but it's helpful to look at how they've lived their life, the choices they've made, the values they hold. That's not to say that people can't change. I certainly know people who have changed for the better and turned their lives around, but generally, past behavior can indicate a person's values, their level of self control, their weaknesses, their coping mechanisms, etc. For example, a man who has had multiple divorces in his past is probably not a good risk for a lasting relationship. He may have learned from past mistakes, or he may not have. He may be attempting to change for his new relationship, but may very well resort to the same dysfunctional behavior that ended his previous marriages after the newness and the honeymoon period of the new relationship wears off. My sister experienced this with her second ex husband. She was convinced he had changed and had learned from his past mistakes. Sure enough, after five years of marriage, he started to repeat the same old patterns that ended his previous marriages, and they are now divorced.

 

 

You also look at how they choose to spend their time. Do they make you a priority in their life? Do they make time for friends and family, or do they give the people in their life mere crumbs, while spending most of their time on their own individual pursuits? People that are relationship-oriented will make relationships a priority in their life.

 

 

What are their living habits? Does he live in filth, have poor hygiene, poor self care? A person may overlook that at first if the guy has other things going for him, but after awhile, it will start to grate on your relationship and lessen your respect/admiration for your partner. You may think you can change him on some of this, but if you try, it will become a nagging/parental dynamic that is not healthy and could lead to loss of feelings/love/attraction for a partner.

 

 

Does this prospect control his anger, or does he have a short fuse? It's not pleasant living with someone whom you have to walk on eggshells with, and try to help him manage his out-of-control emotions.

 

 

Does he show respect for your opinions/ideas and respect for you in general, or does he always have to be right, always have to have the last word, or dismisses your opinions and ideas?

 

 

Does he show good boundaries, or does he flirt with other women when in a relationship with you, or engage in too intense/inappropriate exchanges with other women?

 

 

Does he have good values, or are they lacking?

 

 

Observe how he treats others and what his relationship is like with other people in his life. That will tell you a lot about him.

[MissBee]

Well, so here's a related question to my original one: how (as a layperson trying to identify worthwhile dating prospects) do you determine whether someone is dysfunctional, beyond garden-variety neuroses? All the guys I had long-term relationships with were high-functioning (well, except this most recent one, who really fell into a major inertia / depression / not-sure-what), and it made it difficult to recognize some very destructive patterns they had.

 

Have you had/are in therapy yourself?

 

I ask because if you find that ALL the men you date fall into depression or have dysfunctional patterns maybe(read: definitely) you have some underlying psychological attraction to these types of men, as it's very unlikely a coincidence. And if it is the case, as it seems, that you consistently attract this particular kind of man, the problem is not SOLELY them, but also you and it is MUCH EASIER to focus on figuring out what in you clicks with them or attracts them and change that, and from there, it is likely that you will meet different kinds of men or therapy will help you identify the red flags you've consistently missed/ignored when dating.

 

That is a lot more of a practical bet IMO than using a man having had therapy as a litmus test for his emotional soundness.

 

Putting the focus inward was one of the best lessons I've learned. I always attracted emotionally unavailable men and when I was less self-aware I blamed them. I felt "unlucky" to always meet such men and thought it sheer bad luck....there's not really such a thing. If you consistently choose particular types of men with particularly dysfunctional or destructive behaviors you are no more enlightened than they and to get out of the cycle means you have to really dig into WHY and WHAT makes YOU consistently choose them. It's not enough to say they were high functioning and you were essentially tricked IMO...I don't think so...I think we gravitate towards these people esp if EVERY man you date is like this. You can be fooled once, fine, but if it's all the time, it is no longer some unfortunate fluke but something in you as well. Realizing that I had my own issues which made me consistently attracted to men who later proved unavailable was a hard blow but the only helpful thing to help me attract differently. When it was "them" it was out of my control...like for you where you're now resorting to unrealistic measures to ensure you don't fall for someone like that, but when you realize your part in it and realize you can change that, 3/4 of the battle is won. When you change, it's not easy, but I've found I automatically could weed these kinds of men out more easily and also I found that they also didn't really cross my path as much anymore.

[Got it]

I've been thinking a lot about what kind of traits / values / experiences I should hold out for in a romantic partner. Now that I'm in my late 30's, I'm tempted to include in the list a preference for guys who have been in some form of regular psychotherapy, at some point in their adult lives, lasting at least a couple of months or more. To me, this indicates that they have received an "emotional education," take some measure of responsibility for their feelings and circumstances, have a desire to better understand their role in what happens to them, understand that feelings and motivations are complex and deep-seated, and possess the humility to recognize, and act on the recognition, that you can't always go it alone and sometimes a third party can help give you new perspective on things.

 

Do you think this is a reasonable requirement? Why or why not? Do you believe that psychotherapy is the only / most effective way to achieve any real personal insight and change? Do you think a thirty-something who has never had any kind of therapy can have the same degree of self-knowledge as one who has?

 

Not necessarily. My mother spent years in therapy but never owned it to make much difference. While I like to see that someone has gone the detail is in the pudding so to speak and why the went, what they got out of it, and what they apply now is a greater factor. Not everyone needs to go as long as they are self aware and not everyone that has gone is any closer to self aware then when they started going.