Boyfriend never pays for me even though he earns loads and I don't?

June 19, 2014

did you read what I wrote about people crashing on my couch.
it has nothing to do with men and women and sex and hookering. but the own person's generosity.

I dont know what you're talking about modern equal world. when i am with friends, female friends, that make less than I do, and are in school, I will treat them to things, because even though I don't make a lot of money, I make more than them, and it makes me happy to make them happy. I'm not trying to sleep with them, I just like making people happy.

My coworkers bought me a birthday cake for my birthday. That cost money. No one is trying to sleep with me, they are trying to make me happy.

My friend had an extra concert ticket, asked me if i wanted to go, didn't charge me even though the ticket was like $150, didn't want to sleep with me.

My cousin buys me presents all the time, he makes good money, so he's always taking us, the little cousins, out for dinners, always treating us. Gross, is he trying to sleep with me?

How is this oppressive or patriarchal. Doing nice things for people you are in a relationship with. WTF!? Being generous is oppressive? I'm just lucky I come from relationships where all my friends are generous people, and I'm a generous person, and it makes us happy to make other people happy. Wow, so oppressive.

Perhaps we are talking past each other. My oppressive comments were directed to the general proposition that men are generally expected to 'be generous', monetarily, to women. While women are not generally expected to be generous monetarily to men. You often hear that they contribute 'other ways', such as cooking and cleaning, but not really, because that is sexist. This is basically the transactional nature of mating that has gone on for ages.

I think I might be like a segment of men who can be generous, but are selectively generous. Women who pass some type of (perhaps arbitrary) threshold test of being non-parasitic will be treated (sometimes surprisingly) generously. However, it is not uncommon to interact with women that give off an entitled vibe. In dealing with those women, it is prudent to be more tempered with one's generosity.

June 19, 2014

Most dating gestures are done from the heart and kindness not out of "traditional" roles. So plum pleased that People can have the ability to know the difference in this dating era.

Not a fan of the gimme gimme , it sets the stage for dependency.

Going out with a loved one sometimes only cost time. Plan a picnic ,or a night at a summer movie fest...there are things you can do that doesnt involve money...or do you equate money with love?

I'm not sure how this relates.

One need not equate money with love in order to realize someone is stingy.

While lots of things are free, many other things in life simply aren't.

The OP is clearly not a "gimme gimme" person and I find it very bizarre that people are reading that into her post. Expecting that your boyfriend who makes probably over 5 times as much as you do and is by most people's standards VERY well off, should feel more generous in terms of paying isn't about "gimme gimme." Come on.

Stinginess is not hard to miss and it has nothing to do with money, as clearly in his case, he seems like a very stingy person even though he is not financially hard up, whereas the OP has less money but is more generous of spirit and in actions by the fact that she gladly treats him whereas he has gone as far as to accuse her of gold digging.

June 19, 2014

Of course you dont see the entitlement or desire for support.

Like I said before, if the genders were swapped, almost every single woman in here would be rebuking the OP for being a leeching loser guy.

I started off reading this thread thinking "man this guy's a jerk, what a cheapskate" until I got here. Then I started really thinking about it. I've always paid for dates, when I couldn't afford it, I didn't date. Please don't take what I'm saying out of context, I'm not saying that's the way to it should be. It's just that's what's always been put in my head, the norm if you call it.

I've wanted to split the check, but never had the balls to do it.

June 19, 2014

haha Elswyth where did you come from lol

Whatcha mean?

June 19, 2014

All people who don't really know the OP, or her BF. How do they know the reasons why he doesn't want to pay her way? Perhaps, like many people have posted in this thread, he is also not paying for her as much because she is quite capable of paying her own way, should she try to do so.

See what I mean? Her boyfriend doesn't pay her way, so he's obviously a cheapskate. Doesn't that mean she is also a cheapskate for not paying his way? Not to mention that 140k is not exactly a ton of money these days.

I can pay my own way but my bf often pays for dinner not because I cannot but because he is generous and cares about me and finds it a caring gesture and likewise while he is very capable of paying his own way and buying his own shyt....I also will buy him things or pay for stuff....why? Because I am generous and give freely and I care about him and we're not roommates or business partners who must calculate every dime and penny and send each other IOUs or receipts.

Read again: the OP has definitely paid for this guy and one of the things she said in her initial post is that she has paid for him MORE than he has her. So this free ride entitlement conversation is really ridiculous because if such was the case why would she bother to pay for him MORE than he has her??? She's a smart cookie, if she were entitled and gold digging surely rule number one is to dig more gold than you are giving out, no?

Paying someone's way again is such a ridiculous way to look at relationships. But the good thing is I date men with whom I'm compatible and none of this is ever a topic or point of contention...but dating and treating your SO for me is something that occurs naturally and without fanfare. Buying dinner or movie tickets and fairly cheap things, we aren't talking vacations, rent, tuition and things like this....so the idea that paying for dinners esp if you make A LOT more is "paying someone's way" seems very tight wad and nuts to me.

And $140,000 not being "that much" for a single man....okay.... I can no longer take these comments seriously lmao. Yea I'm sure he is suffering and will go broke if he pays for dinners, because clearly $140,000...which is almost $12,000 a month (not to mention Google employees get free breakfast lunch and dinner and other complimentary amenities which means more of their check can go directly to them). FAMILIES live on way less and still have a good life and can have vacations, trips, go out to eat with their children....but this guy we're gonna really start saying he isn't making that much. Again what are we talking about...DINNERS for God's sake...even if he spent $200 a week on dinners it would only be $800 a month and still only a fraction of what he makes. We are NOT talking about OP expecting him to pay for her car, her rent, her phone bill, vacations, her nails, medical bills and other things that are actually very expensive. It doesn't matter what he makes....he makes more than the average person or family for that matter so it makes it more absurd, but even if he wasn't, if you have the means and make more than your SO why are they paying for stuff more than you? And again splitting the bill....super tacky IMO. My bf anf I NEVER split the bill. Either he foots this bill today and I foot the other tomorrow but going half on a restaurant bill is splitting hairs and we're a couple not roommates or friends and I cannot fathom being comfortable in a relationship where hairs are split over every penny and every time we go out to have some burger and fries we have to each count out our halves...even with friends I am more generous and I am no millionaire, but have offered BECAUSE I CARE and it is NICE to cover drinks or dinner and with my man, even more so.

June 19, 2014

Weren't you the same guy who says he only dates traditional Asian women because he didn't like modern, egalitarian 'Western women'? Make up your mind...

Yes, but I'm assuming that the OP was born and raised in the west. Therefore, we should analyze this situation in modern, western standards - equality, etc.

Now, I wouldn't be careless enough to date this lady, particularly if I was in the Bay area, which has an abundance of non-western women. But men, even less jaded than me, are starting to come to the realization that they might not want to indulge the entitlement mentality of the modern western women. Particularly after having 'equality' and 'grll power' thrust upon them since childhood.

I'm not suggesting she should put up with this guy. She can, and perhaps should, drop him and move on. Generally women get the benefit of the doubt on this forum. Geez, I find myself doing it (despite being a bit jaded). This OP seems to be catching a bit more flack than usual. It might be because she seems to have a history of one-sided 'sharing.' Despite being in her mid-20s, she is being supported by her parents and is now on this site complaining that she is not being supported by her boyfriend.

She should drop this guy. I'm sure she can do very well where she is. In fact, there are recent news stories about groups of NYC women flying to the Bay area on weekend trips to find single, highly paid men. Some type of supply/demand imbalance. That suggests she is in a target rich environment. She should do fine once she moves on.

June 19, 2014

I'm not sure how this relates.

One need not equate money with love in order to realize someone is stingy.

While lots of things are free, many other things in life simply aren't.

The OP is clearly not a "gimme gimme" person and I find it very bizarre that people are reading that into her post. Expecting that your boyfriend who makes probably over 5 times as much as you do and is by most people's standards VERY well off, should feel more generous in terms of paying isn't about "gimme gimme." Come on.

Stinginess is not hard to miss and it has nothing to do with money, as clearly in his case, he seems like a very stingy person even though he is not financially hard up, whereas the OP has less money but is more generous of spirit and in actions by the fact that she gladly treats him whereas he has gone as far as to accuse her of gold digging.

Completely disagree. Even if he earned a million bucks a year she should have no expectations towards his paying for everything. They are not married, they don't live together, they aren't making plans for her to be a home-maker to have his babies.

No-one should be treated like a walking cash machine just because he or she makes '5 times more'. It's completely irrelevant.

And yes, expecting people around you to support you is exactly the definition of 'gimme gimme gimme'.

If I remember correctly, the OP's boyfriend is Eastern European, same as I. We don't come from an entitled culture. Thank goodness for that.

Indeed. But whether you believe her actions are right or wrong (and to me, her arrangement with her parents, just like yours with your parents, are really none of my business), it isn't the topic of the thread.

I think it's very much on topic in fact. The original question was whether wether we thought the boyfriend was unreasonable for not supporting the OP. To evaluate that you need to look at what a reasonable person (which is subjective of course) should expect from another person in a relationship. So every aspect of the financial set up is relevant since we have to pass judgement on his approach - according to the OP's original request.

Edited June 19, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Merge

June 19, 2014

I think it's very much on topic in fact. The original question was whether wether we thought the boyfriend was unreasonable for not supporting the OP. To evaluate that you need to look at what a reasonable person (which is subjective of course) should expect from another person in a relationship. So every aspect of the financial set up is relevant since we have to pass judgement on his approach - according to the OP's original request.

I thought the original question was about the bf not paying for dates at all - which is quite different from supporting IMO (supporting implies paying for or providing personal necessities like rent, groceries, utilities, etc). Also about the fact that he calls her a gold-digger, and allows her to pay for him the majority of the time.

Would the amount the OP makes have any bearing on that? If she were working full-time, I somehow doubt the number of people calling her 'entitled' for desiring a man who pays for dates sometimes, would be any less. I don't believe it is a valid 'expectation', of course (really, no one has the right to 'expect' ANYthing other than not being harmed, from anyone else).

Edited June 19, 2014 by Elswyth

June 19, 2014

I thought the original question was about the bf not paying for dates at all - which is quite different from supporting IMO (supporting implies paying for or providing personal necessities like rent, groceries, utilities, etc). Also about the fact that he calls her a gold-digger, and allows her to pay for him the majority of the time.

Yes someone used the words 'support from those around her' and I just used it without thinking. Agree that the original question was his paying for dates fully more often. I suppose the only cavaet was that the OP emphasised his earnings as the reason for expecting him to pay more which to some degree does come under 'support' (as in one person being in more financially advantageous position helping out).

I don't know where this her paying for him majority of the time comes from, it wasn't in the original post. But surely however, she should just.... stop offering? Feels like the goalposts are moving and the conversation has moved from the original? Clearly the guy is no saint but are we then moving from her expecting more financial contribution to whether in fact he takes advantage of her?

Edit: she did say 'I actually think I paid more times than him'. Guess don't know what that means? Meals? Coffee? Drinks? Theatre tickets? Spent more money more often? Or less money more often on smaller things?

Would the amount the OP makes have any bearing on that? If she were working full-time, I somehow doubt the number of people calling her 'entitled' for desiring a man who pays for dates sometimes, would be any less. I don't believe it is a valid 'expectation', of course (really, no one has the right to 'expect' ANYthing other than not being harmed, from anyone else).

Of course it does since her original argument was that she was financially hard up. That she had to rely on her parents because she chose to work part-time. I'd say it does have bearing on that.

If she earned full time wages, the argument would be viewed from a different perspective by many (though mine would remain the same as I believe in partnership and sharing responsibilities fully).

June 19, 2014

Yes someone used the words 'support from those around her' and I just used it without thinking. Agree that the original question was his paying for dates fully more often. I suppose the only cavaet was that the OP emphasised his earnings as the reason for expecting him to pay more which to some degree does come under 'support' (as in one person being in more financially advantageous position helping out).

I don't know where this her paying for him majority of the time comes from, it wasn't in the original post. But surely however, she should just.... stop offering? Feels like the goalposts are moving and the conversation has moved from the original? Clearly the guy is no saint but are we then moving from her expecting more financial contribution to whether in fact he takes advantage of her?

Edit: she did say 'I actually think I paid more times than him'. Guess don't know what that means? Meals? Coffee? Drinks? Theatre tickets? Spent more money more often? Or less money more often on smaller things?

I'm guessing it probably just means frequency, but assuming that she wasn't purposefully nitpicking on one extra Starbucks treat, it's still a significant point IMO. To me, at least, a considerate partner who made $140k/year would not simply go along with that without at least ensuring that next date was his treat.

Agreed that she should have just stopped offering, don't know why she continued doing it.

Of course it does since her original argument was that she was financially hard up. That she had to rely on her parents because she chose to work part-time. I'd say it does have bearing on that.

If she earned full time wages, the argument would be viewed from a different perspective by many (though mine would remain the same as I believe in partnership and sharing responsibilities fully).

I have my doubts about this, judging from the way most 'who pays?' threads turn out. IMO, some people have a fixed idea of how things 'should' be, and just use anything else mentioned in the thread as ammo to lambast the OP or their partner based on their preconceived notions. Not talking about you, but there are quite a few, from both sides of the argument.

June 19, 2014

I know what the thread is about.

Her outlook came from within herself and not her boyfriend, although he clearly isn't good for her. The relationship is obviously screwed up and two seconds spent browsing her previous messages will tell you that. She can spend forever trying to dissect his behavior, possibly decide he isn't good for her at some point, and yet things will still remain the same in future relationships. Nothing will ever change unless she focuses on herself and not her boyfriend.

The first step anyone needs to take in learning how to foster healthy relationships begins by taking a personal inventory. Two people always bring both good and bad to the table. Unless you're willing to carefully examine and recognize your own unhealthy choices then how can you reasonably expect any positive changes? You can't make any changes and if you weren't ready for a relationship at the moment then you certainly won't be ready for the next opportunity.

Working a job that is less than enjoyable is beneath her and she would rather be supported then empower herself by working a job that is less than completely enjoyable. This willful decision is anything but healthy and positive. It isn't the financial stability itself that's important but the world experience that comes with being a stable adult. She is not a stable, well-adjusted adult as of yet. That means she has no business being in a relationship.

There are also countless adults who accept financial support from their parents during their early twenties. And that's okay! The difference between them and a person like Sweetie is that she literally refuses to support herself by working a fulltime job. She could take the initiative to be an adult and to support herself fulltime but instead she wants to wait on a hunch and see if this teaching vocation will be enjoyable. I can tell you from experience that it is exactly this sort of thinking that leads people to wash out of educational programs to begin with.

June 19, 2014

Are you sure he makes that much? How do you know he doesn't have other expenses? You would be surprised. Maybe he invests a lot in other things, sends money to family, saves for a home, etc.

Plus maybe he doesn't want you to be into him for his money.

I wouldn't assume anything. I wouldn't assume he doesn't like you.

At least he doesn't ask you to pay for him lol. Be grateful.

You could also be subtle by suggesting cheaper things to do next time. And when he asks why, say I can't afford xyz nice restaurant. If he then says I'll pay for it, he got the hint. If not, then at least you avoid the expensive restaurant.

Also are you holding back on sex? Not to rub in the stereotype that guys just want sex, but I mean, you're kind of pushing the stereotype that guys should pay for girls. His pay check shouldn't matter. You can't assume anything. Like I can't just starting complaining that so and so doesn't send charity money to my non-profit just because I believe he is wealthy.

June 19, 2014

Are you sure he makes that much? How do you know he doesn't have other expenses? You would be surprised. Maybe he invests a lot in other things, sends money to family, saves for a home, etc.

Plus maybe he doesn't want you to be into him for his money.

I wouldn't assume anything. I wouldn't assume he doesn't like you.

At least he doesn't ask you to pay for him lol. Be grateful.

You could also be subtle by suggesting cheaper things to do next time. And when he asks why, say I can't afford xyz nice restaurant. If he then says I'll pay for it, he got the hint. If not, then at least you avoid the expensive restaurant.

June 19, 2014

I get a really bad vibe from all the posts you made about this guy.

However, I don't think he is not paying because he is not that into you. He is frugal and he would probably be like this with everyone. I couldn't date someone like that, I like generous man where I can also be generous in return.

June 19, 2014

Does he go out of his way to recommend a free activity (there are websites that list free events such as movies, concerts), so you don't feel uncomfortable? Or, if you recommend him a free activity, will he say "yes"?

I don't like at all how he called you a golddigger though. That's too heavy and humiliating to swallow.

June 19, 2014

All this talk about patriarchal concepts, man v woman paying, money= caring, entitlement...

The way I see it is this: Paying for someone is their way of saying "I value you enough to spend money on you". It's not necessarily a man versus women thing. Back in the day, men paid because A) They worked more and B) Women were to be taken care of.

These days are different. But paying someone's way, especially if you're dating them, I think is still necessary on some level just as a gesture to show them they are valued. Even if it's just early in the relationship. If two people decide to go dutch, it's the dynamics of their particular relationship. It's not *required* but it definitely sends a message.

My boyfriend paid for the first few dates. He is the chivalrous type so he enjoys spoiling his girlfriends. He works a min wage, part time job and still finds ways to pay.

That said, I also pay for him (which is apparently a new concept to him, but I enjoy seeing his reactions when I pick up the tab) I make about the same as him at an internship.

We have a system: One of us pays for dinner, the other pays for dessert. Or one pays for dinner today, the other pays for dinner the next date. One pays for a movie, the other pays for snacks. We alternate.

It makes me feel like I am in a relationship where I am compromising with someone, and it's nice being able to pay together rather than separately like we are just friends hanging out (although we have gone dutch sometimes)

As for OP, I can see why she'd be kind of put off. I don't see it as an entitlement thing, she's not asking him to pay her bills or for her gas or amenities, just that this guy would treat her to dinner. And from what I gather, she's put money towards him.

I'd feel kind of crappy if a guy didn't even want to pay for an ice cream on one date or something. Basically saying "Even though I make so much money, you're not worth the 3 bucks"

I don't know. Maybe I'm old fashioned. It's not so much about the money as it is the gesture as a whole.

June 19, 2014

140k is a ton of money! When the national average income is 50k. these are the stats.

$140K is not a lot of money if he works at the Google in Silicon Valley. Look up the price of a 2000 sq ft house in a good area and the down payment required for 20%. He may also have student loans he is trying to pay off.

And $140,000 not being "that much" for a single man....okay.... I can no longer take these comments seriously lmao. Yea I'm sure he is suffering and will go broke if he pays for dinners, because clearly $140,000...which is almost $12,000 a month (not to mention Google employees get free breakfast lunch and dinner and other complimentary amenities which means more of their check can go directly to them). FAMILIES live on way less and still have a good life and can have vacations, trips, go out to eat with their children....but this guy we're gonna really start saying he isn't making that much. Again what are we talking about...DINNERS for God's sake...even if he spent $200 a week on dinners it would only be $800 a month and still only a fraction of what he makes.

Only $800 a month? LOL. That's a lot of money to piss away on going out to dinner.

I make slightly less than $140K a year, no kids, etc. After maxing out my 401k, HSA, IRA, and SPP my take home pay is ~$6000/month and my only debt is a $1200/month 15 year mortgage. I would never piss away $800 month on going out to eat. I take out my gf, on average, every other weekend and spend at most $150/month dining out. Cheap? No. Just wise with money and I will be retiring in my 50's.

BTW I'm a software engineer too and so are all my co-workers. The gross majority of us are frugal and may be viewed as cheap. Many of us just save and invest a lot.

June 19, 2014

All this talk about patriarchal concepts, man v woman paying, money= caring, entitlement...

The way I see it is this: Paying for someone is their way of saying "I value you enough to spend money on you". It's not necessarily a man versus women thing. Back in the day, men paid because A) They worked more and B) Women were to be taken care of.

These days are different. But paying someone's way, especially if you're dating them, I think is still necessary on some level just as a gesture to show them they are valued. Even if it's just early in the relationship. If two people decide to go dutch, it's the dynamics of their particular relationship. It's not *required* but it definitely sends a message.

My boyfriend paid for the first few dates. He is the chivalrous type so he enjoys spoiling his girlfriends. He works a min wage, part time job and still finds ways to pay.

That said, I also pay for him (which is apparently a new concept to him, but I enjoy seeing his reactions when I pick up the tab) I make about the same as him at an internship.

We have a system: One of us pays for dinner, the other pays for dessert. Or one pays for dinner today, the other pays for dinner the next date. One pays for a movie, the other pays for snacks. We alternate.

It makes me feel like I am in a relationship where I am compromising with someone, and it's nice being able to pay together rather than separately like we are just friends hanging out (although we have gone dutch sometimes)

As for OP, I can see why she'd be kind of put off. I don't see it as an entitlement thing, she's not asking him to pay her bills or for her gas or amenities, just that this guy would treat her to dinner. And from what I gather, she's put money towards him.
I'd feel kind of crappy if a guy didn't even want to pay for an ice cream on one date or something. Basically saying "Even though I make so much money, you're not worth the 3 bucks"

I don't know. Maybe I'm old fashioned. It's not so much about the money as it is the gesture as a whole.

Yes, definetely more a gesture. I don't think I could even have a stingy friend, let alone a boyfriend. In my circle of friends, we never split the bill but we roughly take turns in paying although nobody is keeping track. Paying has nothing to do with men/women thing.

June 19, 2014

Yeah, okay.

Do any of you really believe a willful dependent is remotely similar to a gesture of care? Did you not even read this thread or are you spewing off your own values? You're talking about a woman who never had the experience of being an adult living entirely through her own means. She has never left the nest to take flight despite being the age of twenty-four.

Healthy couples searched for equals and not a caregiver or child to take care of. What's going on is completely different than good etiquette or personal taste. There will understandably be a great deal of resentment from both parties in this sort of relationship and rightfully so. I guarantee the situation would have been different if she took the time to invest in her own future by having the experience of supporting herself rather than relying on her parents as caregivers.

June 19, 2014

Yeah, okay.

Do any of you really believe a willful dependent is remotely similar to a gesture of care? Did you not even read this thread or are you spewing off your own values? You're talking about a woman who never had the experience of being an adult living entirely through her own means. She has never left the nest to take flight despite being the age of twenty-four.

Healthy couples searched for equals and not a caregiver or child to take care of. What's going on is completely different than good etiquette or personal taste. There will understandably be a great deal of resentment from both parties in this sort of relationship and rightfully so. I guarantee the situation would have been different if she took the time to invest in her own future by having the experience of supporting herself rather than relying on her parents as caregivers.

^^^^ Absolutely.

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Boyfriend never pays for me even though he earns loads and I don't?

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