What's the difference between privacy and secrecy in a marriage?

June 17, 2014

...and why would you want/need either in a marriage?

This is a spin off thread from a conversation in the Infidelity section.

The idea was brought up that there was a difference between privacy and secrecy, and that privacy was wanted/needed in a marriage.

What's the difference, and why?

A subsequent poster commented "privacy is for the bathroom"...which caused me to laugh out loud.

My wife and I have been married for over 25 years. We're always in the bathroom with each other...doing what happens in the bathroom, as well as all the other things that folks do there. (taking meds, brushing teeth, combing hair, etc...)

In fact...one point I made to my wife about how her OM (way back when she was in an EA 10 years ago) doesn't know her was because he'd never done such a thing with her...and might be appalled if he had. Whereas after so long with her, nothing that happened there was in any way new to me.

So...is a spouse entitled to secrets in a marriage? If so...what are acceptable, and what are not? Are they entitled to privacy in a marriage...and why or why not?

I'd say that in my own marriage...there's neither secrecy nor privacy at this point...nor do I think there's a need for it.

June 17, 2014

While I understand some married folks desire for privacy, I think secrecy is always damaging in the long term. When someone - one of our kids for instance - wants to tell me something but says "don't tell Mom", I always reply "then don't tell me". In my mind, we're one and the same in that regard.

That's also a measure of the relationship. My wife must care about me if she still loves me despite knowing all my "secrets", some of which scare even me...

Mr. Lucky

June 17, 2014

I'm not married. Just in a LTR.

But I'd say privacy refers to keeping things hidden that wouldn't upset your partner if he found them out. Closing the bathroom door when you're taking a dump is privacy. Keeping a journal that your partner isn't invited to read (but wouldn't be offended if he did) is privacy. There's nothing wrong with privacy - in fact I think it can be a positive thing, it keeps some mystery there.

Secrecy is another level entirely. It's keeping things hidden that you know your partner would be disturbed about. It's unfair.

June 17, 2014

Bathroom privacy? Absolutely, our master suite has two bathrooms. I like to keep a little mystery.

Other than that? Secrets and privacy have no place in a marriage. He is welcome to go through anything of mine, anytime, listen to any conversation, etc. He affords me the same courtesy.

People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. We use it as a barometer..... if you would not want your spouse to see/hear/etc you doing something, then you should not be doing it.

June 17, 2014

I'm not married. Just in a LTR.

But I'd say privacy refers to keeping things hidden that wouldn't upset your partner if he found them out. Closing the bathroom door when you're taking a dump is privacy. Keeping a journal that your partner isn't invited to read (but wouldn't be offended if he did) is privacy. There's nothing wrong with privacy - in fact I think it can be a positive thing, it keeps some mystery there.

Secrecy is another level entirely. It's keeping things hidden that you know your partner would be disturbed about. It's unfair.

Perfectly said.^^^^^

What I have posted here on LS I would consider "private" from my H. Which, I know, is laughable because its out here for anyone/everyone here to read. He knows I post here but he doesn't seem to feel inclined to know what I post. I'm glad for that bit of privacy but if he wanted to read what I have written here-about our marriage-I would share everything with him.

It's when there are secrets kept from the other spouse that becomes the problem.

June 17, 2014

While overall believing in openness and transparency in a marriage or relationship, I do believe in the following exceptions:

1. Using the bathroom (i.e. waste elimination) in private.

2. Keeping a private diary or journal. Everybody needs to be able to express their thoughts without worrying about having somebody else read them.

3. Being able to have a private conversation with a friend, without having to give a play-by-play description of its contents afterwards.

June 17, 2014

I agree that privacy is good in a marriage but secrecy is not.

I am an open book to my husband like Mr. Lucky. If you tell me you are telling my husband as well. We don't keep secrets.

But I would like some privacy mostly for grooming and bathroom habits. Like going #2 or putting in a tampon etc.....

June 17, 2014

For me, the distinction between privacy and secrecy makes a lot of sense. I can't think of a good way to generally describe the difference between the two, but I think both of these posts capture the gist very well:

But I'd say privacy refers to keeping things hidden that wouldn't upset your partner if he found them out. Closing the bathroom door when you're taking a dump is privacy. Keeping a journal that your partner isn't invited to read (but wouldn't be offended if he did) is privacy. There's nothing wrong with privacy - in fact I think it can be a positive thing, it keeps some mystery there.

Secrecy is another level entirely. It's keeping things hidden that you know your partner would be disturbed about. It's unfair.

While overall believing in openness and transparency in a marriage or relationship, I do believe in the following exceptions:

1. Using the bathroom (i.e. waste elimination) in private.

2. Keeping a private diary or journal. Everybody needs to be able to express their thoughts without worrying about having somebody else read them.

3. Being able to have a private conversation with a friend, without having to give a play-by-play description of its contents afterwards.

Some examples from my own marriage: I don't have the passwords or codes for my H's email accounts, phones or social media. I don't look at his bank account (although we have access to each others' accounts) without informing him first, and I never open his mail unless he explicitly asks me to. Or vice versa. It's not that we have things to hide from each other. For me it's just a boundary of personal privacy that is natural for me to maintain.

June 17, 2014

Some examples from my own marriage: I don't have the passwords or codes for my H's email accounts, phones or social media. I don't look at his bank account (although we have access to each others' accounts) without informing him first, and I never open his mail unless he explicitly asks me to. Or vice versa. It's not that we have things to hide from each other. For me it's just a boundary of personal privacy that is natural for me to maintain.

See...I felt that was fine...right up until that trust was broken and my wife abused that right to 'privacy' to cover her 'secrecy' while having an EA with someone.

She used the phone, the social media accounts, and emails/texts to conduct the affair.

So in order to rebuild trust, she HAD TO give up those passwords to me.

Now...10 years later, I don't recall any of those things. But they're mine for the asking anytime I want. And it works the other way in reverse as well. She's welcome to access any of those things she needs.

I don't feel a need for any kind of 'privacy' like that. Never have...but never worried about it until it turned into 'secrecy' by the above definition.

I've just never really understood the point of 'privacy' like that in a close emotional relationship. What does it gain for you?

June 17, 2014

I have kept journals before. At times I have vented in then just v to get things out and look at them. If my SO wants to read them, fine, but he forfeits his right to whine about what's wrote 3 months ago when I was upset over something that was then resolved.

If my SO feel that strongly about his right to watch me poop....well, there are weirder problems at play than privacy....

June 17, 2014

For me, the distinction between privacy and secrecy makes a lot of sense. I can't think of a good way to generally describe the difference between the two, but I think both of these posts capture the gist very well:

Some examples from my own marriage: I don't have the passwords or codes for my H's email accounts, phones or social media. I don't look at his bank account (although we have access to each others' accounts) without informing him first, and I never open his mail unless he explicitly asks me to. Or vice versa. It's not that we have things to hide from each other. For me it's just a boundary of personal privacy that is natural for me to maintain.

I think this all ^^^ makes sense in a marriage/relationship where trust between the couple hasn't been abused/broken.

June 17, 2014

I think maybe it's a different matter when one of the partners has already betrayed the other, and the other now can't trust them to only keep appropriate things private.

But I value my privacy, and would not like my partner to have free rein to snoop through my journals, etc. In return, I try to be trustworthy.

Works in reverse, too. I would not read his private correspondence without permission, as a courtesy to him. But I trust him that if I did, there would be nothing terribly upsetting there.

I guess I feel, in relationships, privacy is a privilege that trustworthy people get.

June 17, 2014

I think privacy = things he knows I do, but does not need the gory details (bathroom, female issues, etc). Even some thoughts, emotions, and conversations. We have all of our computer logins set to autofill, and while he is more than welcome to read all of my emails or facebook chats, he trusts me in that I'm not keeping anything secret.

Secrecy has 2 levels for me. Some secrets are ok, such as gifts or surprises. Maybe the bag of Skittles I hid behind the cereal box. The other level of secrecy is the same (IMO) as lying which is not acceptable. If one of us is actively hiding something with no intention of the other finding out, then it is the unacceptable secrecy.

June 17, 2014

What's the difference between privacy and secrecy in a marriage?

Trust and intimacy.

June 17, 2014

How many of our spouses know we post on LS? For me this is like journaling - or individual therapy - or more like group therapy - and as such I am entitled to keep these thoughts and venting private. But it is a secrete in my marriage that I post here.

My wife found I out was on a support group for a medical issue a ways back, and was not happy I was sharing (anonymously) my feelings on the issue with fellow patients (some where female). Too bad, it was a support group I needed and my conversations were private.

Edited June 17, 2014 by dichotomy

June 17, 2014

I think iiii expressed it well.

Sometimes secrecy is also allowed for good reasons. DH & I lived together for a few months before we were married. I hid my wedding dress from him. We hide presents from each other. We also don't know exactly what the other one weighs.

In the privacy of a journal or during therapy I think you can also disparage your partner. Sometimes, the people you love will get on your last nerve & you have to have a healthy place to let that go & possibly work out a way of coping with whatever is ticking you off.

I think the hidden things become destructive when you are hiding things you know will upset the other person (as opposed to make them happy like presents). Running up debt behind your partners' back is bad. Spending time with and pouring your heart out to someone else. Drinking or drugging without their knowledge. Those things undermine the confidence in the relationship.

June 17, 2014

So almost everyone says there should be no secrets and a lot of people reveal that they have none between themselves and their spouse - how do you know that - they are after all secrets and kept private -

I am not expert at this but you see I have no bank accounts, I have no credit cards, I have no debit cards, I do not work, it's almost as if I am a secret myself. My spouse deals with everything money, I have a small business which pays into an account she has control over (if you see one of my earlier posts I have a complex financial and business set up). As a couple together we maybe regarded as private and at times secretive. To one another I have nothing to be secret or private about - my wife by virtue of her job is secretive and I do not ask - she has a record of being secretive because she had an A.

Now if I had said to my kids whatever you tell me mum will know then they would not have told me much and would certainly see me as untrustworthy.

It's nice to think that we are not secretive or that we crave privacy - so tomorrow as you go about your daily routines keep thinking - am I being too secretive here are my actions secretive am I retreating Into privacy.

Of course too much time thinking about this question could stop you getting stuff done - now you might want to keep that a secret

Happy days - or am I just saying that?

June 17, 2014

Here's what came immediately to my mind when I read down this thread. I offer it, not even sure whether I'm satisfied with it myself, but as a possible prompt for further discussion: privacy is something that is granted and respected by one's partner - you may deserve privacy, you may expect it, you may be entitled to it, you may insist upon it, you may discuss and agree to its boundaries, but in any of these cases, it is essentially a boundary that is somehow acknowledged and respected by the partner.

On the other hand, I see secrecy as a wall that one builds unilaterally around an area, possibly without the knowledge of one's partner.

A journal that my partner knows about, and respects and would never consider opening, is private. A journal that my partner doesn't know about is secret.

Closing the bathroom door so I can take a dump is private - we tacitly acknowledge what we expect goes on in there, and agree to that boundary. On the other hand, texting an affair partner or doing drugs while I'm in there - which are not acknowledged expectations of bathroom behavior - would be secrets.

June 17, 2014

Everybody who knows me knows that if you tell me, you tell my wife.

However, kind of like TF outlines above, my wife and I are pretty secretive people to everyone else. So telling me, and me telling her, doesn't pose much of a security risk...we don't hardly talk to anyone else! LOL!

I'd modify my previous statements to allow as there is some very small amount of privacy between us. We hide presents from each other until its time to give them. In fact, we're pretty proud of ourselves if we're able to pull that off, as we're so close that it's not easy to do.

Beyond that...can't think of much. She does the bills/finances for the family. One bank account. She might ask me about making a purchase for herself...but she's also well aware that my standard policy is "as long as it doesn't put us in a bind, why would I say no?".

She knows that my purchases tend to be occasional, more expensive things, like camping/backpacking gear. So...I often save up for those things by getting an extra $20 occasionally out and stashing it in my wallet. Once I've kicked back enough for whatever I'm after, I buy it. But this isn't hidden from her...she's occasionally asked if I had any money like that handy when something has come up...and if needed, I have no issue with giving it up. Again...not secret, nor even 'private', as she is fully aware that I do things this way.

In fact...that 'need for privacy' was one of the telling indicators to me of her EA when she had it. She'd NEVER bothered to hide anything from me before...so when I (finally) realized she was deliberately doing so...it was an indicator of how severe the situation was.

It took a few years for trust to be rebuilt...but it is, and we're good.

As far as the body/bathroom stuff...we've both nursed each other through illnesses, injuries, etc... so much, there isn't anything there we're either one of us embarassed by.

June 17, 2014

I have a close childhood gf who lives thousands of miles away from me and we email every day sometimes several times a day mostly about mundane things. She's married, I'm not. She would NEVER have an affair or do anything unethical. Am totally certain about that.

It's interesting to me that she doesn't like her H to read our emails as they are so run-of-the-mill. From what I can tell she and her H have a great marriage. Why doesn't she want him to read them? She goes out of her way to keep them away from him.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Speakingofwhich

June 17, 2014

I have a close childhood gf who lives thousands of miles away from me and we email every day sometimes several times a day mostly about mundane things. She's married, I'm not. She would NEVER have an affair or do anything unethical. Am totally certain about that.

It's interesting to me that she doesn't like her H to read our emails as they are so run-of-the-mill. From what I can tell she and her H have a great marriage. Why doesn't she want him to read them? She goes out of her way to keep them away from him.

My question is, does he know about you and the contact that you have with her, and essentially respects that (offering her "privacy" by my definition) or is he unaware of you, due to the lengths she goes to to keep your contact out of his sight (thus you would be a "secret" by my definition.)

June 17, 2014

I will also add that both DH & I are in professions where the things other people tell us are confidential & those confidences are protected by law. If those things count as secrets, I suppose we have tons of secrets between us.

I threw DH a surprise party a few years ago. Even though I keep secrets for a living not telling him was hard. Every time something happened I wanted so much to share it with him. . . . and I couldn't.

June 17, 2014

I haven't read any of the other responses.

Using the bathroom analogy previously mentioned I see it like this - I have been married 18 years and my wife has never seen me poop, wipe my butt, clip my toenails etc

I never even let her change my dressings or see my wound after I had surgery and she is a nurse.

.......but she knows I do those things and I would not deny doing them if she were to have a legitimate need to know and ask me about it.

Privacy is doing things that your spouse knows you do but keeping the gruesome details to yourself for their own comfort.

Secrecy is doing things without their knowledge and consent that would make them uncomfortable.

June 17, 2014

My question is, does he know about you and the contact that you have with her, and essentially respects that (offering her "privacy" by my definition) or is he unaware of you, due to the lengths she goes to to keep your contact out of his sight (thus you would be a "secret" by my definition.)

Right, he knows about me and I'm not a secret. She does talk with him about me sometimes if she wants an answer to something that we're discussing in his area of expertise.

June 17, 2014

So why exactly are secrets bad? What if you are on the same page re: boundaries- you both highly value fidelity, for example -what is so wrong with some thoughts kept to yourself?

It seems like its a trust issue for folks... But it begs the question.... Trust in why regard?

To can trust someone not to cheat on you, you can trust someone not to lie, but to trust someone generally- what does that mean? And why do but do you need to know EVERYTHING about your spouse, to "trust" them?

Edited June 17, 2014 by lucy_in_disguise

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