Snowflower Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I agree! My H wanted to know the painful truth. I don't get it, does a BS want the WS to lie and say the sex was horrible when in fact they really enjoyed it at the time? If a WS has met up for sex numerous times with the AP, there has to be some kind of enjoyment, right? These are serious questions and thoughts. What exactly does a BS want? Do most people want the truth sugar coated? From reading this forum I sometimes wonder. My H wasn't happy, but he said he was glad I told him the truth. I hope he meant that and that the FULL truth didn't make him feel worse, but who am I kidding? re: the bolded... The truth does hurt sometimes. And it really hurt this OP obviously. But there is a way to state things where they aren't intentionally hurtful while still being truthful. I think that is what most people are objecting to. It was the cruel way her H has behaved toward the OP. This OP has a lot of (IMO) insurmoutable issues in trying to reconcile with her H. This is just an example of one more way this guy is not trying to reconcile and isn't the least bit sorry for how he has behaved. He enjoyed the OW and is not shy about telling the OP about this...so, so cruel. No sugar-coating necessary here. OP, (((hugs))) to you.
BetrayedH Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I get what you're saying, but I think there are better ways to say it. If someone said to me, why aren't you attracted to me?; I think it's better to say "I just didn't feel a physical connection" or something along those lines, instead of UR FAT AND UGLY. And I would tend to agree (I usually make a point to be tactful in general) except when it comes to discussions about my relationship and, in particular, infidelity. As an example, my wife and I went thru 7 years of what therapists would generally call a sexless marriage (once every couple of months). She vaguely blamed it on lack of a sex drive. I tried everything and at one point we even got her a script for a women's libido enhancer. During our reconciliation, I expressed outrage at the irony that after so many years of patience on my part, she was the one to have an affair. She quickly retorted that she wanted to have for all of those years, just not with me. Ouch, right? It may have been brutal honesty and lacked tact but for the first time in 7 years, I had a freakin' straight answer. Did it hurt? Sure it did. But that hurt faded and I was finally able to see that issue from a perspective of reality rather than utter confusion and anger. That problem went on for 7 years because she didn't have the courage to give me a straight and honest answer. It wasn't even just a waste of 7 years; the avoidance actually stopped us from addressing the real problem to the point where it probably wasn't even solvable anymore. I no longer want any tactful conflict-avoidance. I don't want any sugar coating. I want the truth, straight up with no chaser. 2
Owl Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 No offense, BH, but look at the intent in your wife's manner of delivering that to you (INTENDED to hurt you, attack you, humiliate you) and the outcome (she went on to cheat, and it all ended in divorce). Had she shown any true remorse...and changed her ways...you might have reached a different conclusion. OP here...and her H...apparently are working towards reconciliation (theoretically). That's not going to be possible with someone who doesn't demonstrate remorse (his statement is in no way remorseful), an ownership of his own responsibility (hey...don't blame me, I liked it and she was hot...anyone would have done it), and a desire to STOP hurting the person they betrayed. He's not giving her a gift...he's STILL attacking her. He's STILL lashing out at her, with the WAY he delivered that information. My wife and I had what we called "brutal honesty" post d-day, when we weren't sure if we were going to reconcile or not. Much of what she said was horrifically painful for me to hear...but she (for the most part, there were a few rare occurrences where she'd lash out) never used the truth as a weapon against me, as a method to attack me. We still have much, much more openness and honesty in our marriage as a result. But...we're both still well aware of the simple fact that HOW we say something matters as much as what we're wanting to communicate. I get the need for honesty as much as anyone...but there's a difference between 'brutal honesty' and being a brute. 1
pteromom Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 Who wouldn't want to have hot sex with a gorgeous human? generally though, the majority of us mortals realize the risks outweigh the rewards, like losing a marriage, good partner, family. Right... The point isn't that she is gorgeous or good in bed. The point is that something is lacking IN HIM that allows him to conveniently forget you when another woman turns her attention toward him. Now it may be that his OW is pretty. But it isn't about that. He would have made the same choice for another woman who wasn't as attractive. Because cheating isn't about "trading up"... it's about lots of other things. Immaturity. Bad impulse control. Lack of integrity. Fear of aging. Fear of losing power. Fear of true intimacy with your partner. A need for a sense of being powerful and in control of other people's lives... Look at celebrity cheaters, and notice how their OWs are usually less attractive than their wives. It's not about looks. And of course affair sex is good. There's none of the other complexities that come with a true primary relationship. It's just a mini-vacation every time you see each other. I promise you - this is not about you or anything that is lacking with you. Anyone who tries to tell you to just go work out and dress sexy is missing the point. Working out and dressing sexy may catch his eye and make him desire you more. It may make him become more territorial because he fears losing you to another man. But it isn't going to fix whatever is broken in him that led him to cheat in the first place (and second place). 2
pteromom Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I get the need for honesty as much as anyone...but there's a difference between 'brutal honesty' and being a brute. Agreed. Or the other option is he has such a low EQ, he doesn't understand the effect those words would have on her. Also not a good indicator of being able to create the relationship she wants. 2
BetrayedH Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 My situation aside, I'm not sure that LJ's H was out to hurt her with that information. IIRC, he said something about not being able to give her the right answer no matter what he did. The truth was that it was about the sex and anything else would be a lie. He could lie or he could give a painful truth. But just to be clear, I'm really not up for defending this dude. He could be doing the right thing but instead, he and his OW are dragging their spouses through the mud. It sounds to me like he wants to keep his marriage (you know, to be nice and all) but then keep his affair, too. It's like he's keeping her in limbo because he wants her to be the bad guy and choose divorce. Classic cowardice. And if that's the intent behind this honesty, then sure, he's an a-hole. My point is just that I'll take the honesty anyway (even when it was coming from a bitch like my wife). 5
violet1 Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 re: the bolded... The truth does hurt sometimes. And it really hurt this OP obviously. But there is a way to state things where they aren't intentionally hurtful while still being truthful. I think that is what most people are objecting to. It was the cruel way her H has behaved toward the OP. This OP has a lot of (IMO) insurmoutable issues in trying to reconcile with her H. This is just an example of one more way this guy is not trying to reconcile and isn't the least bit sorry for how he has behaved. He enjoyed the OW and is not shy about telling the OP about this...so, so cruel. No sugar-coating necessary here. OP, (((hugs))) to you. That makes sense. I was pretty sensitive when answering my H's questions. I didn't give him any details that he didn't ask for. I do agree that the OP's H could have been a little more respectful of her feelings.
violet1 Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 My situation aside, I'm not sure that LJ's H was out to hurt her with that information. IIRC, he said something about not being able to give her the right answer no matter what he did. The truth was that it was about the sex and anything else would be a lie. He could lie or he could give a painful truth. But just to be clear, I'm really not up for defending this dude. He could be doing the right thing but instead, he and his OW are dragging their spouses through the mud. It sounds to me like he wants to keep his marriage (you know, to be nice and all) but then keep his affair, too. It's like he's keeping her in limbo because he wants her to be the bad guy and choose divorce. Classic cowardice. And if that's the intent behind this honesty, then sure, he's an a-hole. My point is just that I'll take the honesty anyway (even when it was coming from a bitch like my wife). That's my opinion of the OP's H. I don't think he wants to D or end the A. The OP's story always makes me cry because she doesn't feel like she stands a chance against the OW. I just wish her H would take a stand and either fully commit or let LJ go so she can heal. So sad! Just another reason why affairs suck. 3
jnel921 Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) LJ.... You need to focus on you and sign D papers ASAP. There are certain consequences that I don't feel survive infidelity. One being long term A's. Too much to deal with mentally. He has been honest. I agree with the other posters that this is necessary to hear. It helps us BS make our next decisions. In this case D! I know you loved him. But he doesn't love you. No matter what you say he will hold on to you and his OW as long as you accept his bullcrap. I can't believe how many women are willing to stand in the sidelines while their WHs continue to play. It's ridiculous . Love yourself first. Edited June 17, 2014 by jnel921 5
stillafool Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 But you knew your husband was in love with this woman before you even married him. It is up to you to end your misery, just divorce and move on. He will go back to her as soon as she wants him. 1
road Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I agree! My H wanted to know the painful truth. I don't get it, does a BS want the WS to lie and say the sex was horrible when in fact they really enjoyed it at the time? If a WS has met up for sex numerous times with the AP, there has to be some kind of enjoyment, right? These are serious questions and thoughts. What exactly does a BS want? Do most people want the truth sugar coated? From reading this forum I sometimes wonder. My H wasn't happy, but he said he was glad I told him the truth. I hope he meant that and that the FULL truth didn't make him feel worse, but who am I kidding? Why did your BH need the full truth? Because he did is good enough for me. Thing is a BH that never gets the truth that he seeks about his WW's affair. He will never be able to put his WW's affair behind him. So if a WW wants a recovered and healed marriage then she has to pony up the truth. Or 30+ years later the BH will still be after answers. He may not talk about the affair any more but he will ponder possible answers to all of his unanswered questions. So if the WW is happy or I should say settles for staying with her BH limping along then she will never regret not telling her BH the truth.
Spark1111 Posted June 18, 2014 Posted June 18, 2014 I KNOW the sex is HOT and OFF the charts.... hell, I was 17 and in heat once..... or away at college and 18, 19, 20.... THANK GOD I didn't marry that guy.... Good, no great, for sex does NOT a life partner make! I wanted a partner, a parent to my children. I could differentiate between hot sex partner, long term parent.... Do other not have the experience to determine the difference? it was always so OBVIOUS to me.... Committed sex toy....daddy to my offspring... 1
fellini Posted June 18, 2014 Posted June 18, 2014 You make it sound like they are mutually exclusive opposites! Can't a WS stay with her primary relationship and get a great father/mother for their child and really HOT SEX? Isn't this precisely why Esther Perel wrote: Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence -- "While Mating in Captivity shows why the domestic realm can feel like a cage, Perel’s take on bedroom dynamics promises to liberate, enchant, and provoke. Flinging the doors open on erotic life and domesticity, she invites us to put the “X” back in sex." I KNOW the sex is HOT and OFF the charts.... hell, I was 17 and in heat once..... or away at college and 18, 19, 20.... THANK GOD I didn't marry that guy.... Good, no great, for sex does NOT a life partner make! I wanted a partner, a parent to my children. I could differentiate between hot sex partner, long term parent.... Do other not have the experience to determine the difference? it was always so OBVIOUS to me.... Committed sex toy....daddy to my offspring... 2
Discjockey80 Posted June 18, 2014 Posted June 18, 2014 You make it sound like they are mutually exclusive opposites! Can't a WS stay with her primary relationship and get a great father/mother for their child and really HOT SEX? Isn't this precisely why Esther Perel wrote: Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence -- "While Mating in Captivity shows why the domestic realm can feel like a cage, Perel’s take on bedroom dynamics promises to liberate, enchant, and provoke. Flinging the doors open on erotic life and domesticity, she invites us to put the “X” back in sex." I agree. I think it's entirely possible to have hot wild sex with your spouse, provided both people have the right attitude and are committed to focusing on embracing their primal side with each other. 2
tornapart2002 Posted June 18, 2014 Posted June 18, 2014 I agree. I think it's entirely possible to have hot wild sex with your spouse, provided both people have the right attitude and are committed to focusing on embracing their primal side with each other. I have to agree. Is not like you see in the movies. Sometimes you have to work to keep your sex life alive. That being said..if the husband of the OP really said that the way she says he did, then I truly hope she (you) will let him go, no matter how hard it is, take sometime to learn more about yourself and then find someone who will honor and respect you. I am extremely grateful, despite everything, that my husband has not been so cruel to say these things to me. I dont believe he feels them either, based on the conversations we have had.
BetrayedH Posted June 18, 2014 Posted June 18, 2014 I gotta stand up for Spark here. I don't think her point was that hot sex and marriage are mutually exclusive. I think the point was more that a hot sex partner does not necessarily equate to a great life partner. And that many of us are smart enough to know to look for something more than sexual gratification. The OP's H appears to have completely upended his life and for what? His answer is hot sex with an attractive woman. Shallow and short-sighted. But I don't think Spark would say you can't have hot sex in marriage. In fact, she's described her marriage as being sexually hot both before and after the affair. 3
tornapart2002 Posted June 18, 2014 Posted June 18, 2014 I actually agree too...I meant I agreed with the above comment, but I don't think that's what Spark was saying. I was just commenting on the other comment. I got what she was saying too. Do I even know what I am saying? Hmmmm....lol I gotta stand up for Spark here. I don't think her point was that hot sex and marriage are mutually exclusive. I think the point was more that a hot sex partner does not necessarily equate to a great life partner. And that many of us are smart enough to know to look for something more than sexual gratification. The OP's H appears to have completely upended his life and for what? His answer is hot sex with an attractive woman. Shallow and short-sighted. But I don't think Spark would say you can't have hot sex in marriage. In fact, she's described her marriage as being sexually hot both before and after the affair. 1
Spark1111 Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 Of course they aren't mutually exclusive. Who said I wouldn't want it all? We all do! Some of us are even lucky enough to have it! but given opportunities to bed a hot young stud attracted to me at the risk of losing a good man, mate and lover.....is NOT something I would do. So the question begged is WHY would someone? Immaturity, entitlement, depression and unmet needs from childhood or adolescence, IMO. I've told my son: Date them tall, small, big-busted, small-breasted, blonde, brunette, redhead...all shapes and sizes. BUT, when you choose a life partner, choose wisely and well. Don't commit nor bear babies with a woman if you think there is someone better out there for you. LS is filled with 1000s of post that bear the misery of that decision. 4
beatcuff Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 ... but given opportunities to bed a hot young stud attracted to me at the risk of losing a good man, mate and lover.....is NOT something I would do....BUT, when you choose a life partner, choose wisely and well. a/k/a compromise and/or settle. which goes back to the OP. why is this board 'surprised' the WS would say how great it was? i guess we should lie -- to our S and to ourselves. the truth is we ALL settle. there are only so many points so we have to allocate them. hence the numerous cliche' --- 'there are those you bed and those you bring home to mom'. therefore........ So the question begged is WHY would someone? over time one might 're-score' and decide maybe they over-looked one or more areas. and look around to see.......
Realist3 Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 What a ****tard idjit scumbag. We were talking and I sarcastically said WH must have felt good that he had fooled me for so long because I trusted him and he said no, he didn't feel good about that. I said something about how it never bothered him enough to stop, and then I threw one of the things he's told me a number of times back up in his face, which was "but the sex was really good and she is so attractive!" He said "How do you expect me to answer that? Any way I answer would be wrong for you." I had hoped his seeing the devastation his DDays caused me (and believe me, that devastation continues), and IC and MC and reading books would have made a difference in his perception of the slunt dumpster and his time/years with her, but I guess she is still a happy memory. I guess I had to be a blonder, taller, pretty, slender boobalicious California surfer-girl type who was willing to do all her magical stripping, lap dancing, "oh watch me use my toys before you put it to me, you studly thing" and all the other hot sexy things she would do. Color me pissed, angry, jealous, hurt, and wondering if he will EVER get it. We even talked about this very thing in MC a while ago and the and the MC gave him some appropriate responses he could use instead of "the sex was really good and she was so attractive." I am married to a simpleton. I can hardly wait for the post nup to be done and ready for signatures. Then I can decide if there is a future worth my time, or if I'm willing to be alone for the rest of my life. I re-read my first few posts here, from last year. Gosh, was I stupid and naive...then came the trickle truth DDay #2. I was such a fool to believe he had come clean at that point. We never had HB, and I never did the "pick me, pick me!" dance. On DDay#1, I asked if he wanted to stay married and work on things because if he didn't, he needed to leave NOW. If I knew the real truth at that time, he would have been hefty-bagged out the door immediately. I think I was in shock on DDay#2 and was incapable of doing anything more than breathing. No, you aren't married to a simpleton, you are married to a man. Okay, we can debate that little(LARGE) issue, but men like nice looking women who are good in bed. It is no secret. At some point you are going to have to wrap your head around the FACT that you aren't his dream girl. You never will be... ever. He's found someone that gets his game on and it isn't you. Why are you clinging to this? He has told you she is prettier, she rocks him in bed. WTF are you hoping to salvage? Those feeling from your husband are NEVER EVER going to go away. He landed his catch... on the side. Stop torturing yourself. It is never going to work. 1
Spark1111 Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 No, you aren't married to a simpleton, you are married to a man. Okay, we can debate that little(LARGE) issue, but men like nice looking women who are good in bed. It is no secret. At some point you are going to have to wrap your head around the FACT that you aren't his dream girl. You never will be... ever. He's found someone that gets his game on and it isn't you. Why are you clinging to this? He has told you she is prettier, she rocks him in bed. WTF are you hoping to salvage? Those feeling from your husband are NEVER EVER going to go away. He landed his catch... on the side. Stop torturing yourself. It is never going to work. What a gentleman you are realist. Pat yourself on the back. You always bring the WS's perspective to a BS's pain. What a mensch you must be. So empathetic.....that I am astounded. 10
HermioneG Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 No, you aren't married to a simpleton, you are married to a man. Okay, we can debate that little(LARGE) issue, but men like nice looking women who are good in bed. It is no secret. At some point you are going to have to wrap your head around the FACT that you aren't his dream girl. You never will be... ever. He's found someone that gets his game on and it isn't you. Why are you clinging to this? He has told you she is prettier, she rocks him in bed. WTF are you hoping to salvage? Those feeling from your husband are NEVER EVER going to go away. He landed his catch... on the side. Stop torturing yourself. It is never going to work. OP- Thought patterns like the above explain why your spouse spoke to you as he did. It illustrates the problem is with your spouse, and with those who think similarly, because there is no empathy, kindness, or peacefulness in the face of your pain. So although the quoted reply is not kind, let it be an illustration of the thought patterns you are facing with your spouse. And that sometimes, it is just best to take a breath and be grateful that you won't understand that thought process. 4
Arieswoman Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 Longjourney, First let me say I am sorry you are in this situation, and I understand how hurt and angry you must feel. You said What a ****tard idjit scumbag. and I would tend to go along with that and add that your husband is selfish, cruel and insensitive. He has not only cr@pped on you from a great height, he is now rubbing your nose in it. As long as you stay with him he will continue to erode your self-esteem and grind your psyche into the dust. Please, please, remove this person from your life. You deserve better than this kind of treatment, which is actually a type of verbal abuse. Good Luck,
AmyBamy Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 What a ****tard idjit scumbag. We were talking and I sarcastically said WH must have felt good that he had fooled me for so long because I trusted him and he said no, he didn't feel good about that. I said something about how it never bothered him enough to stop, and then I threw one of the things he's told me a number of times back up in his face, which was "but the sex was really good and she is so attractive!" He said "How do you expect me to answer that? Any way I answer would be wrong for you." I had hoped his seeing the devastation his DDays caused me (and believe me, that devastation continues), and IC and MC and reading books would have made a difference in his perception of the slunt dumpster and his time/years with her, but I guess she is still a happy memory. I guess I had to be a blonder, taller, pretty, slender boobalicious California surfer-girl type who was willing to do all her magical stripping, lap dancing, "oh watch me use my toys before you put it to me, you studly thing" and all the other hot sexy things she would do. Color me pissed, angry, jealous, hurt, and wondering if he will EVER get it. We even talked about this very thing in MC a while ago and the and the MC gave him some appropriate responses he could use instead of "the sex was really good and she was so attractive." I am married to a simpleton. I can hardly wait for the post nup to be done and ready for signatures. Then I can decide if there is a future worth my time, or if I'm willing to be alone for the rest of my life. I re-read my first few posts here, from last year. Gosh, was I stupid and naive...then came the trickle truth DDay #2. I was such a fool to believe he had come clean at that point. We never had HB, and I never did the "pick me, pick me!" dance. On DDay#1, I asked if he wanted to stay married and work on things because if he didn't, he needed to leave NOW. If I knew the real truth at that time, he would have been hefty-bagged out the door immediately. I think I was in shock on DDay#2 and was incapable of doing anything more than breathing. I have absolutely NO idea why you are still with this man. My heart hurts for you. 1
AmyBamy Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 That's my opinion of the OP's H. I don't think he wants to D or end the A. The OP's story always makes me cry because she doesn't feel like she stands a chance against the OW. I just wish her H would take a stand and either fully commit or let LJ go so she can heal. So sad! Just another reason why affairs suck. But why does she have to wait for her husband to make a stand? She can leave. There is nothing holding her there. JUST DIVORCE. It's easy, right? I mean, she has just as much power to end the marriage as her husband does - moreso really considering she will probably come out better on the other side of divorce court. I never understand this waiting around for someone else to make a move and decide for you if you if the marriage will continue. If BSs drag their feet to file for divorce, why does anyone question WSs dragging their feet on filing to divorce? What's the difference? It sounds like OP doesn't want to be with this man, understandably as his mind and thoughts are obviously elsewhere. OP deserves to be loved for who and what she is wholeheartedly - and she can't expect her husband to do that for her at this point, he has proven he doesn't. So, now what? She just waits around for him to be done or for him to do something? What? Why? Look, I understand being hurt. I understand being betrayed. What I don't understand is staying and then claiming to be a victim. You have power. You have just as much power over yourself as anyone else does. You can't control other people, but you can sure as **** control yourself and use your power over yourself. If you choose not to, you have to stop blaming other people for "making" you miserable. They aren't. You are choosing it. If it's an abusive cycle, I get it, it's tough to break - but if you aren't going to give a WS any leeway for acting out because of abuse, then you can't give a BS any either. It makes them seem weak, it makes them seem pathetic - and they aren't! They are just as strong as anyone else - but they have to take responsibility for that and use it!
Recommended Posts