irc333 Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 Of course, the title of this thread only allows to put in so many words, but I had recently met a woman at a very local Meetup event. Met this woman there and we really hit it off. She's single, early 30's, never married, no kids (even better, doesn't want kids), into a lot of geeky stuff, movie buff like me, gets obscure movie references and pretty much the same value system as me, beliefs, etc. Well, I mentioned I was hosting a Meetup event to have dinner and a movie, and mentioned if she would like to come. She said yes, probably, she'll have to see what she has going on that day. After that, we get to corresponding with each other via emal and I didn't really bring up the event again until SHE did...she said, "Hey, you still were able to get more people for the event? And I said, "Nah, only a married couple and my good friend Bill is coming" It was an announced event. She said, "I wouldn't mind tagging along, here's my number so we can keep in touch". So we all went to a group outing at the Meetup event, had fun, I got to know her, she got to know me as she sat next to me at the dinner group. Later on, we had been keeping in touch ever since. I mentioned a local "game night" (non-Meetup at a game store) and apparently the location was 2-mins from her house. So I met her there and we had fun gaming with other people in the store. We left together, and I asked (spontaneously) if she would like to grab a bite. She said "Sure, want ride with me and we can go together, I can just drop you back off here at the parking lot." And I agree, so I go with her....we decided to eat light (we weren't all that hungry to begin with) and got an appetizer. So we shared it. I said at the end, "I got this, no problem" and she goes, "Nah, I'd rather split the check" and I said, "Are you sure", "she said, "Yeah, no sweat, I can pay my own part of this." Considering we're kind of new to each other, and how more independent women are these days, some are just not keen on having a guy pay their way right off the bat. After the weekend, I had asked her to see a movie with me ..and she happily agreed and I mentioned if is she still good with "going dutch" or not? First of all , she didn't know what "dutch treat" meant, lol...so I had to explain it to her. SHe said, "Nah, that's fine, I can handle it, I wouldn't expect you to pay my way." So I'm not entirely sure if 1. Women tend to not want to let a guy pay her way because they are just funny like that....and will eventually let you pay he way at a later time? 2. She's not interested. I mean, on one hand she could be interested, but just doesn't feel comfortable with letting a man pay.....yet. Or...she simply will never let a man she's not interested in pay her way? Yes? no? Next....should I cancel the "date" considering she's not wanting to let me pay? (Yes, I know too extreme) Or should I attempt to "See how this plays out?" I know a lot of "dating and relationship message board regulars" knee jerk reaction is to say, "Dude, launch her, she's not interested" but lets have an open mind about this, yes?
Bruce Leigh Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 See how it plays out. Sounds like a lot of overthinking on your part. Women who want to pay their own way get a big thumbs up from me. 1
Author irc333 Posted June 17, 2014 Author Posted June 17, 2014 See how it plays out. Sounds like a lot of overthinking on your part. Women who want to pay their own way get a big thumbs up from me. Yeah, it does say something about them as not having any kind of entitlement when out with a guy. 1
PegNosePete Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 Either 1) She's not interested, and doesn't want to "owe" you anything, or 2) She's interested, and believes in equality Good luck guessing which it is! There's only one way to find out for sure... 1
firmness Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) Either 1) She's not interested, and doesn't want to "owe" you anything, or 2) She's interested, and believes in equality Good luck guessing which it is! There's only one way to find out for sure... If only the world (and women) were so simple. There are as many answers to this as there are women. You should know this by now. While it is tempting to want to read this particular "signal" it is never as telling in isolation as it is in the context. I would ask these questions of myself: Was there a lot of eye contact when you were talking? Did she smile or laugh a lot?Did you agree to hang out 1-1 again?Did she touch you in any way shape or form while smiling or maintaining eye contact?What was her body language saying? I could go on and on, but you get the idea. I rarely explicitly think these things to myself in the moment - it just sort of impacts me all at once to create/trigger a "gut instinct". Trust your gut. If she did not give you very clear signals, then do no ask her out again. She sees you as a platonic interest and is not interested in anything romantic. In this case then the advice above in #1 is spot on. If you know in your gut that she is interested, then perhaps option 2 above makes sense. Then there are all the other possibilities: She has had men pay before and expect sex from it She is not sure how she feels yet She just wants to be fair - equality aside She likes you and wants to share the burden She wants to set a tone of light and easy from the start She wants to send you a signal that she is not the gold digger type She is offended at your offer for some reason and is handling it as best she can. ... You get the idea. Good luck! Edited June 17, 2014 by firmness Grammers 4th bullet 1
MidwestUSA Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I cringed when you asked her if she was still okay going Dutch when you went to the movie. That was your next chance to try to pay, and you didn't. What it means, I don't know, but you shoulda coulda tried again. The precedent is set. Maybe she does indeed like things equal. You hope. Good luck. Maybe she'll step up and pay your way next time!
Bruce Leigh Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 You are both just trying to get a feel for each other, leave the thinking out of it right now. To coin a phrase, " Dont think, feel ".
salparadise Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 And I agree, so I go with her....we decided to eat light (we weren't all that hungry to begin with) and got an appetizer. So we shared it. I said at the end, "I got this, no problem" and she goes, "Nah, I'd rather split the check" and I said, "Are you sure", "she said, "Yeah, no sweat, I can pay my own part of this." I would not read much into it. Sharing an appetizer is kind of intimate, so I don't think she's trying to hold you at arm's length by paying her share. I think it more likely that she is asserting her status as a fully functional women of the 21st century, as opposed to an old school damsel looking for a man to take care of her. I also thought it seemed awkward to mention dutch treat when asking her out again. My suggestion would be to never mention who pays and continue offering, especially for low cost stuff like an appetizer or movie. Things tend to be a lot smoother when you take turns paying rather than splitting small checks, so you could just say I've got this, you can get the next one (since you already know she prefers equality). One thing I do is wait until they go to the powder room and pay the check while they're away. That avoids the whole negotiation. Then if she says something I just say, my pleasure or you can get the next one... like firmness said, there are a lot more meaningful cues to gage interest. I appreciate a woman who prefers things to approximately equal, but I detest splitting checks on the spot, and I never want to think about making it exact.
Author irc333 Posted June 17, 2014 Author Posted June 17, 2014 I'm going with my gut as I think she's actually interested. Yes she has laughed and touched me at the same time. Is good with returning calls or calling back. Will even call when she's out and about....most importantly she asks a lot of questions of me as with most women I talk to the Getting to know you process has been one sided. If only the world (and women) were so simple. There are as many answers to this as there are women. You should know this by now. While it is tempting to want to read this particular "signal" it is never as telling in isolation as it is in the context. I would ask these questions of myself: Was there a lot of eye contact when you were talking? Did she smile or laugh a lot?Did you agree to hang out 1-1 again?Did she touch you in any way shape or form while smiling or maintaining eye contact?What was her body language saying? I could go on and on, but you get the idea. I rarely explicitly think these things to myself in the moment - it just sort of impacts me all at once to create/trigger a "gut instinct". Trust your gut. If she did not give you very clear signals, then do no ask her out again. She sees you as a platonic interest and is not interested in anything romantic. In this case then the advice above in #1 is spot on. If you know in your gut that she is interested, then perhaps option 2 above makes sense. Then there are all the other possibilities: She has had men pay before and expect sex from it She is not sure how she feels yet She just wants to be fair - equality aside She likes you and wants to share the burden She wants to set a tone of light and easy from the start She wants to send you a signal that she is not the gold digger type She is offended at your offer for some reason and is handling it as best she can. ... You get the idea. Good luck! 3
Kid_Charlemange Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 Interesting, I had the same thing happen last night. Second date. Thought it went pretty well, but two things stick out in my mind: I paid for the drinks before the event, and then when we got some appetizers (and more drinks) she insisted on splitting it. When I said "you can get it next time," I got an odd look... Now truth is, I think I did pay for everything on the first date, so maybe I'm overthinking. Then again... the other red flag (well... yellow) was at the end of the evening, I'm dropping her off in front of her house and she goes for a cheek kiss. It was a mouth kiss on the first date. I have the sense I'm about to be friend-zoned! Individually such clues don't mean much, but put together... well, we'll see. We're supposed to get together for a daytime cultural event (museum or such) on Sunday. I hope she's still interested, because this is the first woman I've dated this year who kind of does it for me physically. And her personality, warmth and sense of humor are great... I don't want to be friend-zoned!
iiiii Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) IRC33, I think it's lovely you offered to pay for her. As for myself, when I was dating, I only let a guy pay my way if I was both interested in him, and knew him well enough to be sure that the offer was freely made. Some men expect things if they buy you a meal (even if it's just a second date!) and I didn't want to mislead anyone or feel that I owed anyone anything. If I were interested in him, but didn't know him well enough to be sure that the offer was genuinely "no strings attached" then I wouldn't let him pay. Maybe this is how your date feels. Next time, I suggest you offer to pay - if she objects, then why not offer to let her pay next time (and then let her do so of course!) Taking turns is IMO more romantic and less awkward than splitting the bill each time. You may find as she gets to know you better, she is more comfortable with accepting your offers to pay. Edited June 17, 2014 by iiiii
firmness Posted June 18, 2014 Posted June 18, 2014 I I don't want to be friend-zoned! On nearly every date I went on in the past three years, I waited until we reached that "will he kiss me?" moment, and grabbed her by the arm forcefully (bot not aggressively) and kissed her. Each time it got the best results possible (not meaning that I wanted a one night stand - in fact that is NOT what I was looking for). Women over 35-ish appreciate this more than little girls. So her age matters here. It seems odd to me that a man would not just take what he wants and risk the slap in the face. I have never once EVER been slapped. I have also never forced or even pressured a woman into sex - or anything else for that matter. (as a side note, coupled with this attitude towards dating is a very very strict rule: If you even smell the word "no" on her lips, put your shirt on and walk out immediately. I have done this more than once in my life. It aches a little, but you can never be accused of anything if you stick like glue to this rule) It is very important that you find a way to get close to her again. This time with full confidence (not not cockiness) and now you know what to to. If you feel a little hesitant for any reason, then just grab her, pull her right up to your face and look into her eyes for a second or two. Just a pause. If she is any kind of worthwhile woman, she will come the rest of the way (all 2.5 inches.) If she sits there, then you kiss her anyway but dump her ass immediately. Kiss her and never go back again. She will be trouble. Love/romance/sex is a dance. Each partner has to do his or her part. If one is doing all the work it would be like dancing with a rag doll on a crowded dance floor. Creepy, right? If she does not go that 2.5 inches, you dump her. Tell her it has been fun and have a good night. Walk away and do not look back.
preraph Posted June 18, 2014 Posted June 18, 2014 There's really no way of knowing what her reasons were, but I wouldn't assume it was negative at all. She did leave with you to go eat. If she was totally uninterested, that wouldn't have happened. We do hear stories of men who get tired of always paying, especially when they barely know the woman and so some women want to not put that on them -- plus this wasn't an official date. So really, she should have insisted on going half as she did. Now if you ask her on a real date, say "I'd like to take you to dinner Friday," making it clear you're paying. Sounds promising!
carhill Posted June 18, 2014 Posted June 18, 2014 When she won't let you pay, she's not interested? Dated a lot of women and never saw a definitive correlation between who paid and interest. In your case, just keep showing up until either of you no longer desires the other's company or you're married. Don't worry about the 'who pays' stuff.
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