Got it Posted June 18, 2014 Posted June 18, 2014 What I mean is that cheating is unquestionably on the cheater. It is a poor deicision and a crappy coping skill, and the BS cannot be held responsible for the cheater's choice. However, despite invisible so called research to the contrary, lots of VULNERABILITY begins with a very very unhappy marriage. And THAT is not always simple OR the sole responsibility of the WS. So...while therapy may not be necessary to "stop cheating," it may very well be necessary for BOTH spouses when the crappy marriage pre-A contributed to the vulnerability. If a crappy spouse - BS OR WS - will not address their crappiness, then the WS beating their breast and stopping their A is NOT gonna fix everything. Okay. Got it. That makes sense and I agree.
fellini Posted June 18, 2014 Posted June 18, 2014 Im not so sure its a case of wanting both, but rather, just not wanting to let go of one (BS) even though you don't want it, and definitely not wanting to end the other (AP). I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. I know my reason for cheating was I was no longer, and stopped for awhile, being invested in the relationship so gambling it was no longer a factor for me. Losing him wasn't seen as negative alternative. So I knew if I could have sex with someone else I was beyond done. So I left a few weeks later. For others, many others, they want both. I never cared about having both and have never regretted divorcing. And it wasn't that I didn't see the positives in my ex husband. He is an awesome guy! Just not for me. And I recognized that I didn't, and hadn't, loved him like he deserved to be loved. 1
Owl Posted June 18, 2014 Posted June 18, 2014 Im not so sure its a case of wanting both, but rather, just not wanting to let go of one (BS) even though you don't want it, and definitely not wanting to end the other (AP). I don't think that's a difference...I think it's just semantics. Not wanting to let go of = still wanting to keep. And that's my point...that's why these are affairs, not divorces. Using that basic identification...all affairs are split self affairs...or else, they're a seperation/divorce. Very, very few affairs occur where the WS is "willing to let go of" their BS. Nor does this lead to any different method to end the affair/reconcile the marriage.
fellini Posted June 18, 2014 Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) So...what did you have to do, specifically, because the affair was split self instead of any other cause, to reconcile/rebuild your marriage? In my wife's case...her affair was pretty clearly an exit affair. She'd already chosen to leave me for OM. But...didn't work out that way when everything came out into the open. She hadn't realized that leaving me for him would cause her to lose me completely out of her life...which she wasn't actually ready to do yet. But exit affair, or pretty much any other affair...to me...all require pretty much the same steps to move forward from. The BS has to decide if they want to try to reconcile, or divorce. Assuming the choice is reconcile, the BS has to insist that the WS make a choice...AP, or BS. Assuming the choice is BS...then NC has to follow next. Then, the couple needs to figure out how to rebuild trust, how to renew communications, how to re-establish intimacy. Then they have to invest the work needed to accomplish all these things, over an extended period of time. How does recovery/reconciliation differ under the Brown model? IC required to sort through what type affair it was, and tailor the IC to somehow 'treat' the WS's disorder/cause specifically? See...that's the thing...the 'cause' to me is what I've outlined above...poor decision making skills, poor relationship skills (especially poor boundaries), and bad judgement. Its not anything more complex than that. So I don't understand what additional analysis or effort is needed. No question you do not understand! :-) First of all, nothing you say about your WS fits the description of an exit affair. An exit affair BEGINS when the marriage is over, it does not END the marriage, it is the device used to bring about it's end. A WS in an exit affair does not LEAVE the BS for the AP, it's not about a choice, because the decision to end the marriage came before the A. If a WS decides to go for the AP over the BS upon discovery, this does not make it an exit affair. A split self affair has more in common with that scenario, whereby the WS is constantly flip flopping between the two because they have no desire to either be with their AP nor to end their marriage. Because the marriage has been reduced to a marriage of convenience (more like room mates, or both parents living in a child centred marriage, for example) the desire to maintain the marriage is stronger because both partners are more or less "comfortable" with the arrangement. The WS, however, is having an awesome time with the AP, is getting all the emotional stimulation that the marriage never (or only originally) provided, and can live like this forever. This affair explains all those famous cases that went on for 2, 5, 10, 20 25 years. Therapy for exit affair: For Brown this is to try to encourage the partnership to end the marriage as amicably as possible. And to try to help the BS with the trauma. For Brown the marriage is over. Now if that marriage returns, we would have to look at WHY. Why would a WS return to their dead marriage? Why would a BS take back someone who didn't love them the way they needed to be loved. The question you ask is about trust. Surely there is a huge difference between treating a couple going through an exit affair and one going through split self! In split self Brown thinks the marriage as suffering on an emotional level, so repair is extremely difficult, because both have to engage in an excercise involving emotional commitment that neither has been able to do for years. And she argues that the affair, while it is not the signal of the end of the marriage (like it is in EXIT) is the straw that often breaks the camels back. In an EXIT affair the WS might not be better off with the AP - that was not the point of being with an AP, the point was to use the AP and the A to get out of a marriage. But in a split self affair, the treatment is extremely difficult because the BS has to forgive the decisions that led to cheating, forgive the WS for the EA, the PA and forgive the WS for falling so deeply in love with the AP. These are very difficult things to forgive. And the WS has to recover, and reconcile with a traumatised BS, all the while suffering from enormous withdrawal from her deep connections with the AP. None of it is easy. It takes YEARS to get there. And probably, most, myself included, will eventually throw in the towel at some point in the process. My only fortune is I caught onto her A before her bonding with the A was deep enough to rule out any interest in our marriage, and before he had the chance to put the pressure on her to make a decision. I was also fortunate because in telling me about the A, she was anticipating me to make the decision for her that she would not make, and I delayed that decision. In doing so, she, like your WS, became aware of the fallout that public disclosure was going to bring about (the "do the right thing" of the SS affair was going to destroy her "image" as a good woman, and a good wife, and a good mother in the eyes of everyone she valued) so she went NC and told me it ws over. But it wasnt really over. Because I was not aware of the type of affair she was engaged in I treated it EXACTLY LIKE YOU DESCRIBE ABOVE. Focussed all the recovery on issues of decisions, choice, trust, recover trust, reconnect intimacy, etc. etc. But this is only a PART of the battle. She had no problem keeping the intimate feelings for her AP in her head during this whole process, and in fact began to miss him, miss what they had, and although she never broke NC ever, she engaged in behaviours that allowed her to keep alive the idea that he was there waiting for her. And in this case, he was. Only after, as I believe I have explained elsewhere, we did a structured separation did she take seriously the need to deal with her head, her emotional ties to her AP in such a way that she got the closure she needed for herself to move on and stop keeping that door open. Enough for now. Surely you can see from my discussion that I do believe that it is important to know the meaning of the affair. I cannot say it any simpler. People do not cheat BECAUSE they make bad choices. They CHEAT because they WANT something that CHEATING will provide them. And they want it bad enough to make CLEAR BAD DECISIONS to get it. Whether this is in one giant step (ONS) or in a "Not just friends" slow process is not the point. People cheat because they want what awaits them on the other side of the moral line. NOT BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE MORAL LINE IS, (They know perfectly well what they are doing is something they have always believed to be wrong) NOR JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN CROSS IT, (It's not a game of stealing out of the cookie jar) NOR JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE PROBLEMS WITH COPING. ("I couldn't bring myself to say no") Those conditions might contribute to the WS crossing a line others will simply not cross, but they are not the DRIVING FORCE for cheating in the first place. IMHO. Edited June 18, 2014 by fellini 1
Owl Posted June 18, 2014 Posted June 18, 2014 No question you do not understand! :-) First of all, nothing you say about your WS fits the description of an exit affair. An exit affair BEGINS when the marriage is over, it does not END the marriage, it is the device used to bring about it's end. A WS in an exit affair does not LEAVE the BS for the AP, it's not about a choice, because the decision to end the marriage came before the A. If a WS decides to go for the AP over the BS upon discovery, this does not make it an exit affair. A split self affair has more in common with that scenario, whereby the WS is constantly flip flopping between the two because they have no desire to either be with their AP nor to end their marriage. Because the marriage has been reduced to a marriage of convenience (more like room mates, or both parents living in a child centred marriage, for example) the desire to maintain the marriage is stronger because both partners are more or less "comfortable" with the arrangement. The WS, however, is having an awesome time with the AP, is getting all the emotional stimulation that the marriage never (or only originally) provided, and can live like this forever. This affair explains all those famous cases that went on for 2, 5, 10, 20 25 years. Therapy for exit affair: For Brown this is to try to encourage the partnership to end the marriage as amicably as possible. And to try to help the BS with the trauma. For Brown the marriage is over. Now if that marriage returns, we would have to look at WHY. Why would a WS return to their dead marriage? Why would a BS take back someone who didn't love them the way they needed to be loved. The question you ask is about trust. Surely there is a huge difference between treating a couple going through an exit affair and one going through split self! In split self Brown thinks the marriage as suffering on an emotional level, so repair is extremely difficult, because both have to engage in an excercise involving emotional commitment that neither has been able to do for years. And she argues that the affair, while it is not the signal of the end of the marriage (like it is in EXIT) is the straw that often breaks the camels back. In an EXIT affair the WS might not be better off with the AP - that was not the point of being with an AP, the point was to use the AP and the A to get out of a marriage. But in a split self affair, the treatment is extremely difficult because the BS has to forgive the decisions that led to cheating, forgive the WS for the EA, the PA and forgive the WS for falling so deeply in love with the AP. These are very difficult things to forgive. And the WS has to recover, and reconcile with a traumatised BS, all the while suffering from enormous withdrawal from her deep connections with the AP. None of it is easy. It takes YEARS to get there. And probably, most, myself included, will eventually throw in the towel at some point in the process. My only fortune is I caught onto her A before her bonding with the A was deep enough to rule out any interest in our marriage, and before he had the chance to put the pressure on her to make a decision. I was also fortunate because in telling me about the A, she was anticipating me to make the decision for her that she would not make, and I delayed that decision. In doing so, she, like your WS, became aware of the fallout that public disclosure was going to bring about (the "do the right thing" of the SS affair was going to destroy her "image" as a good woman, and a good wife, and a good mother in the eyes of everyone she valued) so she went NC and told me it ws over. But it wasnt really over. Because I was not aware of the type of affair she was engaged in I treated it EXACTLY LIKE YOU DESCRIBE ABOVE. Focussed all the recovery on issues of decisions, choice, trust, recover trust, reconnect intimacy, etc. etc. But this is only a PART of the battle. She had no problem keeping the intimate feelings for her AP in her head during this whole process, and in fact began to miss him, miss what they had, and although she never broke NC ever, she engaged in behaviours that allowed her to keep alive the idea that he was there waiting for her. And in this case, he was. Only after, as I believe I have explained elsewhere, we did a structured separation did she take seriously the need to deal with her head, her emotional ties to her AP in such a way that she got the closure she needed for herself to move on and stop keeping that door open. Enough for now. Surely you can see from my discussion that I do believe that it is important to know the meaning of the affair. I cannot say it any simpler. People do not cheat BECAUSE they make bad choices. They CHEAT because they WANT something that CHEATING will provide them. And they want it bad enough to make CLEAR BAD DECISIONS to get it. Whether this is in one giant step (ONS) or in a "Not just friends" slow process is not the point. People cheat because they want what awaits them on the other side of the moral line. NOT BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE MORAL LINE IS, (They know perfectly well what they are doing is something they have always believed to be wrong) NOR JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN CROSS IT, (It's not a game of stealing out of the cookie jar) NOR JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE PROBLEMS WITH COPING. ("I couldn't bring myself to say no") Those conditions might contribute to the WS crossing a line others will simply not cross, but they are not the DRIVING FORCE for cheating in the first place. IMHO. Fair enough...I understand your position. I simply don't agree with pretty much any of it. I think I've spelled out my viewpoint equally as well, and I believe you're equally in disagreement with it. 'Nuff said. 1
fellini Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) WOW! Wait a minute! You are going to reduce that difference to merely a difference in semantics!!! No wonder you think all affairs are split self. You operate on nothing but the surface structure of affairs. Not wanting to let go DOES NOT EQUAL still wanting to keep. If a WW is still in love with her primary partner, and engaged in an affair, we can speak of still wanting to keep her husband. But if a WW is inside a Split Self affair, we don't speak about still wanting to KEEP her H, we are talking about still wanting to keep her MARRIAGE. SS is about the MARRIAGE not the feelings for the H. If the H of a SS WS has a heart attack and dies in the MIDDLE of the affair PROBLEM SOLVED. She can go merely "after the right thing to do time of grieving" and be with her AP and marry if he is single and have EXACTLY what she was looking for in the first place: A fulfilling emotional relationship and a marriage. If you care to understand a Split self affair go watch Woody Allen's Crimes and Misdemeanors. This is the kind of affair where the guy keeps his lover in a studio apartment and has regular hookups. He has no feelings for his wife other than her ability to keep the household running and to attend the requisite dinner parties. This is the pattern the SS is based on. If a child wont give up a teddy bear that he hasn't played with for 5 years, but has no explanation why he doesn't want it you are telling me this is the same as a child who does not want to give up a toy he has continuously been playing with and sharing with his friends? How is it possible all affairs are split self if the conditions of ss are clearly, for example, not about one night stands? cannot include A's that occur during the early stages of romance, cannot explain why some men cheat on, the night before or weeks after their weddings? None of these affairs can be even remotely explained by Brown, nor does she even try. Affairs have patterns. The patterns are important. Distinguishing between the patterns is the first step to treatment. This is why she calls her book, "Patterns of Infidelity and their treatment", because she thinks, and feels, and has been working with a model that understands that the meaning of the affair makes a difference in how the couple and the therapist are going to resolve their issue when the affair comes to light: Conflict Avoiders Intimacy Avoiders (These people have a fantastic chance for recovery. They need to work through the meaning of the affair and to find ways to resolve their avoidance patterns in their marriage.) Sexual addictions (Im not even interested in this type but it surely has its own treatment) Split self affairs Exit affairs (These marriages are pretty much doomed. The least they are going to require is a structured separation (SS) and the best scenario is ending the marriage with as little collateral damage as possible in the case of exit) How you can reduce that down to "if she stays, its because she didn't want to go" is, to put it your way, merely semantics. A husband who is screwing around on his wife but has no intention of leaving her is not the same as A husband who is building up a 2nd relationship and falling in love thinking he will eventually leave his wife if the AP will have him is not the same as A husband who has clearly checked out of the marriage and has found a friend at work who he now thinks he wants to start a new life with. (And that's only 3 scenarios) I understand your statement about the right to agree to disagree, but I came into this thread to talk about something that I have at least tried to understand and which I think has value. You have said in every post that you do not, and that there is nothing more to discuss! But you haven't let anyone discuss the actual post because from go you have said it's all BSh-t. Okay I get your position: People cheat because they are broken. Period. But why can't people who believe that people cheat because they are engaged in a life which pushes them to cross a line they never imagined they would cross, at least discuss the meaning of what it is they seek such that they would risk everything to get it. Because for me they do that just because they are broken just doesn't cut it. Ive seen A Clockwork Orange at least 3 times so I am convinced that treating the moral reflex is NOT the solution, nor is it the same, as treating the desire. I don't think that's a difference...I think it's just semantics. Not wanting to let go of = still wanting to keep. And that's my point...that's why these are affairs, not divorces. Using that basic identification...all affairs are split self affairs...or else, they're a seperation/divorce. Very, very few affairs occur where the WS is "willing to let go of" their BS. Nor does this lead to any different method to end the affair/reconcile the marriage. Edited June 19, 2014 by fellini 2
fellini Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) I have previously mentioned the strong relationship between Brown's clinical version of Split self and Michelle Langley's discourse on LIMBO. They are so well connected I think they are worth exploring together. For example, here is something that Langley says about women who refuse to END their marrage and move on to their AP: "Some women in limbo already know that they don’t want to stay married, but their attachment to the happily-ever-after image prevents them from ending their marriages. These women usually separate from their husband and have little interest in working on their marriage or spending time with their husband. These women have no qualms about letting go of their husband, but still have difficulty getting divorced, because they can’t let go of their image of happily-ever-after. If you find that this is the real problem you’re experiencing then you need to stop clinging to the picture in your head and let your husband go. It’s not fair to keep him hanging on because you want to maintain an image in your head." There is an interesting phenomenon we also know exists for some women who KNOW their husband's having affairs, if not have permanent mistresses and are fully supporting them with their income. These spouses are, in the classic view, so tied to their image of the perfect marriage and doing the right thing that they will endure years of betrayal just to keep the family together. It is "their duty", and what their husband's do is "wrong" but "one has to tolerate that in the face of the alternative". I'm doubting that these classic 50's style marriages still exist in large numbers, but I don't doubt that some women/men currently continue to live in these kinds of marriages. Food for thought. Edited June 19, 2014 by fellini 1
Owl Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 My friend...we're going to have to agree to disagree. What you don't understand is that I don't think the difference matters in all the various affair 'types' you've identified above. You clearly find it critically important. We don't agree. Think that pretty much sums it up. I don't agree with your viewpoint, you don't agree with mine...can we agree on that? Regardless...I wish you well. 1
FitChick Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 Sounds like more PC bull, perhaps because calling it what it is sounds a bit harsh - cheating. "A rose by any other name..." 1
fellini Posted June 19, 2014 Posted June 19, 2014 My comments in bold.... This is an interesting thread. I find myself to be of two minds. (Pun intended?) I think when it comes to the choice to have an Affair, once that choice has been made, I agree with owl. Until the WS can realize that their "reasons" for starting it really boil down to choosing something wrong and deceitful to deal with a real or perceived problem, no progress will be made. (Show me a story in LS where a WS declares that their having an affair was not wrong, not deceitful. This is weird. Virtually EVERY WS admits they were wrong to have an affair. They don't just do this to appease the BS either: they mean it. And we all know they knew that going in and they knew that coming out. So I truly, truly do not see how progress is going to be made if a WS "admits" they were wrong. That's a no brainer for them. The BS is not asking IF they knew it was wrong, the BS is asking WHY DID YOU DO IT IF IT WAS WRONG? Now it seems to me there are two types of answers at this point: (a) "Deficiencies in my character" (which during say, 20 years never exhibited themselves but suddenly do in an affair) or (b) "the meaning of the affair" (the reasons the WS went there. And in fact, it can be both. Agreed. For the WS, the first important thing is to OWN FULLY: I made this choice, I hurt my spouse, I am responsible. (But if that was ALL the WS has to do, my god, do they ever get off the hook easily! Oh yes I know lots of WS's try to first blame the BS. But eventually most if not the vast majority come around to understanding the "I own it" line. But that's it? I got my WS to say, "I did it all by myself"? Sorry, Im not paying for MC to get there, I'm beginning MC ONLY if we are already there.) Now, once that absolutely mandatory foundational humility has been established, the defining of types might be useful in analyzing what led up to the A and what the WS was thinking when considering it. For example, if the marriage really was very dysfunctional, and the WS was miserable, then maybe there is value in thinking "was I thinking exit or was I thinking leading two lives to 'survive' my sadness?" BUT, no matter the answer, that is only valuable if it leads the WS to move toward bettercoping mechanisms, improvement, and change. If they "use" it as some "reason" they cheated, it has missed the point and become detrimental. (Again, I'm not like most BS's here because I do not have a problem separating out two issues: a) the reasons people cheat (what motivated them to want to get into a 2nd relationship b) what mechanisms FAILED to stop them from doing so. I believe these are FIRMLY disconnected issues. I believe a lot of people THINK about other people than their SO in sexual ways, in their minds and simply do not move forward with these thoughts because they have healthy mechanisms or because they choose alternative strategies to deal with their desires. I believe some people are attracted to other people and do not stop themselves from testing the limits of that feeling, and find themselves in full blown affairs having spent weeks telling themselves they have everything under control. But I do NOT believe in the heuristic: People cheat because they have bad coping skills. We know they have bad coping skills because they cheat. I'm pretty sure the coping skills they supposedly need to prevent them from crossing the line, pretty much work 100% in every other aspect of their normal lives. They are not morally deficient monsters. (But I'm getting the feeling you are talking about RECONCILIATION. These are necessary for reconciliation. Owl has been denying that ANY of this stuff is relevant, that once the affair is on, it means nothing. A point I simply cannot support, because if I did not know the meaning of the affair, I do not see how I am going to even consider reconciliation. Recover from the trauma, yes, but reconciliation without knowing something about the WHY? That seems to me to be unhealthy for both the BS and the WS) I think that taking responsibility and changing AND looking at the factors of the pre-A marriage have to coincide in order for there to be REAL recovery and a thriving marriage. Simply saying "the WS was bad, now she's not" really isn't enough. BINGO!!! 10 Hail Mary's and "itll never happen again, I have better coping skills" is not going to do it for me either. 1
cocorico Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Greetings! I found it interesting that my blog post on split self affairs was mentioned in a previous thread (22 pages!). You can find it here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/415138-split-self-affair I just wanted to clarify a few things: 1. There IS such a thing as a split self affair. Just because something isn't in the DSM doesn't mean it doesn't exist. By the way - someone said sexual addiction wasn't in the DSM...actually..it was listed there from 1980 until 1994, and it was called "hypersexual". It is still there in passing, stating that further research is needed. 2. There are several books written about the split affair - Google it and you will find that Boston University co-signs Emily Brown on her research. Philippa Perry is a psychotherapist - she also states there are several types of affairs. So does Sandra Manessis. Anyone read "The Clinical Treatment of Infidelity"? I think it's interesting that we tend to discredit things that we don't understand...or don't WANT to understand. Is it that hard to believe that some - I said "some" - cases of infidelity are clinically/psychologically based? I think understanding why someone had an A is vital if you are considering having a R with them - whether you are their fBS considering reconciliation, or their fAP considering M, or a subsequent potential partner. If someone, after 30 years of faithful, dedicated partnering decides to engage in an A, I don't believe it is sufficient to say, "oh, they had poor coping skills", as if the coping skills that had served them perfectly well during the preceding 30 years of M suddenly evaporated; or "they have a character deficiency" (that took 30 years to show up?) or, "they're morally bankrupt" as if that would not have become evident in the preceding 30 years, or would not have shown up in some other area of their otherwise exemplary life. Nor do I believe "I made a bad choice. But it's OK, I've fixed it now" works either. Sure, a bad choice was made somewhere along the line - to embark on the A, or not to first end the M before embarking on the R - but without understanding *why* and *how* that happened! believing it won't happen again becomes a mere article of faith. Perhaps some people are just happy knowing _that_ things happen - water comes out of the tap when they switch it on, their car goes faster when they depress the accelerator, light comes on when they press the switch - without understanding *how* or *why*, but it doesn't help when they turn the tap and no water comes out, and they don't know how it works and what to look for. I'm one of those kind of people that needs to understand how things work, so that when things go wrong, I have a clue about how to go about fixing them again. Because I prefer to fix things that are otherwise good, instead of throwing them away and buying new. And so I like to understand how people work, and how Rs work, and how I work and how my partner works. Understanding helps to keep things working as they should. So when I find an explanation that fits the data I've gathered, I like to test it and examine it and see what light it shines. If it helps in my understanding, I consider it useful. If it adds no value, I'll move on. Split self has helped me to understand why my H behaved as he did in beginning a second R before he buried the first. It doesn't excuse, justify or absolve - but it does help explain. And for that reason I consider it useful. 1
WrinkledForehead Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Hypersexuality is not listed as a disorder in the DSM-V. I know; I just wrote a 13 page paper on it. Hyposexuality IS listed. Just wanted to clear that up for you so you can have accurate details.
fellini Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Hypersexuality is not listed as a disorder in the DSM-V. I know; I just wrote a 13 page paper on it. Hyposexuality IS listed. Just wanted to clear that up for you so you can have accurate details. Im not particularly impressed about what is or isnt in a DSM-V. I don't think anyone here in LS cares if a "condition" exists or not called X. People use the term sex addict, or sexual addiction, (like other terms that get thrown around like psychopaths, narcissist, limerence) in the way we see it in the daily life. Whether or not a vote taken by a bunch of psychologists on a board claim, we all know that there is a type of person "out there" who has a problem with his/her libido and is screwing any and everyone they can and goes outside their relationships to do it. We know these people exist, and we know they don't necessarily think they have a problem, or that it is a problem for their relationships, but we do know they are a different issue in terms of infidelity from someone who starts one day to have lunches with a colleague and MONTHS LATER is having their first sexual hookup. As Brown puts it: In split-self, the marriage feels empty, whereas in sexual addiction, the individual feels empty.
WrinkledForehead Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Im not particularly impressed about what is or isnt in a DSM-V. I don't think anyone here in LS cares if a "condition" exists or not called X. People use the term sex addict, or sexual addiction, (like other terms that get thrown around like psychopaths, narcissist, limerence) in the way we see it in the daily life. Whether or not a vote taken by a bunch of psychologists on a board claim, we all know that there is a type of person "out there" who has a problem with his/her libido and is screwing any and everyone they can and goes outside their relationships to do it. We know these people exist, and we know they don't necessarily think they have a problem, or that it is a problem for their relationships, but we do know they are a different issue in terms of infidelity from someone who starts one day to have lunches with a colleague and MONTHS LATER is having their first sexual hookup. As Brown puts it: In split-self, the marriage feels empty, whereas in sexual addiction, the individual feels empty. I don't necessarily support the findings of a manual that reported that homosexuality was a disorder, either. And neither did I support or refute the ideas in the post. Just wanted to clear up that little bit there. 1
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