Have you ever TRULY changed something about yourself?

[salparadise]

I always thought this, too, but my therapist has talked to me a lot about people who fundamentally cannot change, or are very unlikely to without extensive psychotherapy. Narcissists, for example, because their malaise tends to make them very resistant to psychotherapy.

 

And I've always thought that everyone wants to grow and change to some extent, to become better people. But now I'm no longer sure. I have after all dated three guys who did not want to change--I'm not talking about the things I asked them to change/work on for the sake of the relationship, but ANY change: none of the three of them showed any growth as people over the course of the relationship, no change in insight or outlook, nothing.

 

So now I think that intellectually everyone might want to grow and become better people, but emotionally many people have too many defenses against change of any kind. And in my experience, people with these defenses tend to be in denial / unaware of how resistant to change they actually are.

 

What do you think?

 

I think you're correct, and Grumps' post was insightful as well. I was talking about a larger overall philosophy, so it did not address the context to which you are referring.

 

In terms of personality characteristics, attachment styles, and defense mechanisms as it relates to a person's overall suitability as a relationship partner... fundamental change is difficult. My thought is that (and this seems to be a recurring theme) it's just not a black & white thing that can be reduced to a simple idiom that always rings true.

 

People learn, grow, develop, mature and sometimes even make seemingly miraculous transformations. But, our personalities and core being are pretty much fixed by the time we become adults, so the notion that you can inspire someone to become someone they are not is folly.

[7yearsbroken]

My ex wanted me to change, I could not. It drove her crazy, and cold. On my side, all I did was love her, I never asked her to change.. I accepted her and supported her through every struggle she had. I was her financial support, emotional support.

 

When she didn't get the "change" she wanted she started to put me down.

"Why don't you do this, why do you do that.. Etc etc.."

Walking on eggshells, yea, been there for her, it only fed the bully in her.

She kept beating me down, me a needy, depressed, now socially awkward broken human being, have to piece everything together and work on myself.

She changed while asking me to change, ironic, no?

Is love leaving someone after they won't change? Guess so.

 

I've examined where I was wrong, but she didn't communicate how she really felt. By the time she told me how she really felt she changed into a horrible monster, and blamed me for bringing it out of her. I was kind and generous with no backbone and I let her walk all over me like a doormat. She gladly left me after convincing me she gave me fair warning to "change".

 

After 7 years I've realized change in relationships are inevitable, people change over time with different goals and paths in life.

 

If you want people to change for you, it is an unrealistic desire. Your happiness depends on this other person shaping to your expectations. If they did change would you be truly happy? I know my ex selfishly thought, "after 7 years, do I HAVE to ask you to change to become something I want to be with at this time?"

All the while I'm thinking.. After so much time spent NOW she wants me to change?!?!

 

So, I get it. Some people need to change, say a person who abuses drugs, and their partners may stay for a while to try to help them out. Then when the change does not come, they leave. Sure this is a case where leaving someone needs to happen, but there are cases where one person wants everything their way, uncompromising and unwilling to face their own faults.

 

I'm too loyal to leave someone who truly needs help to "change". Is love jumping ship when things get rough? (I'm not talking about abuse here)

 

how about sticking it through because you love them. But then again, I was emotionally abused and stuck around, and she left anyways. So true colors come out, and one way or another either he/she will stay, or she/he will leave.

 

Good luck on finding someone who accepts you 100% until the end of your lives.

[Zapbasket]

I've been obsessed lately with the notion of personal change. Is it really possible, how does one achieve it, what can you realistically expect to change, what motivates you to change, etc.

 

Note that when I ask about "change," I'm talking about the kind of change that requires some deep inner work to effect. The kind of change we hope to make within and for our relationships with others; the kind we (foolishly) hope others will make.

 

So...what about yourself have you changed? I'm interested in knowing what spurred you to a decision to change, what steps you took to make the change, and how you know you actually have achieved lasting change.

 

I'll start:

 

"Before": All the way up to my early 20's, I was a very "self-sufficient" person. I never shared my inner world or vulnerabilities with others--neither caregivers nor peers. I was convinced that it was weak and pathetic to share my vulnerabilities or to ask for help. I also could never admit to loneliness, and went to dinners by myself, and movies, lectures, on vacations, etc. alone because I hated the vulnerability induced by having to ask someone to join me and then be disappointed / feel foolish when they couldn't make it or "couldn't keep up." A friend of mine in my late teens said, "The message you give off is, 'I'll be friends with you, but you have to stay outside a 50-foot radius.'"

 

What made me want to change: At an intense summer training camp, I started to fall apart inside. I felt like a failure and felt deeply alone and unhappy. I could no longer hold up the facade that I was fine and excelling all the time. None of my usual defenses worked for me anymore. I hit a huge rut and the stress was making me sick.

 

Steps I took toward change: I had never been to a shrink of any kind (my family didn't "believe" in such things), but I started going to psychotherapy several times a week. My psychotherapist said I was receiving my first "emotional education," and that's exactly what it was. I began to learn how to recognize and acknowledge and then to embrace my insecurities and vulnerabilities. I began to learn how to be honest about my feelings, and to trust that others who cared about me would care to know how I felt, and it would make us closer, and that "closer" was good, not a dangerous form of "exposure" and better than always toughing it out alone. I was in psychotherapy for 3.5 years, and left when I felt I had learned all I could at that time of my life and in that psychotherapeutic situation.

 

I took what I was learning in my psychotherapy sessions and practiced it in the world with friends old and new, and colleagues. Instead of diving into my journal or other arts I practiced to express my feelings, I communicated my feelings directly to people in my life.

 

I quickly began to experience results. People drew closer to me the more of myself I revealed to them. My relationships became more satisfying. The same friend who in my late teens said she felt I wanted everyone to "keep a 50-foot radius" of distance from me, said to me in my early twenties, "You have opened up so much; I can tell a huge difference from when I first met you."

 

I also during this time took an internship working psychotherapeutically with young children, and this taught me a lot about being kind to your inner child, and your feelings and fears, etc.

 

How I know I changed: I know how to express my feelings. I seek conversations about feelings with others. I don't try to do everything by myself and I am not squeamish about asking for help. I take risks in relation to other people, exposing myself even when I am uncertain of what the response might be. Most of all, I know I have changed because I actively seek out the company of others. I am comfortable being alone, but I don't just settle into being alone; rather, I can identify feelings of loneliness and rather than bolster myself against those feelings, I let them sit there and I draw people into my world to spend time with and share experiences with.

 

The limitations of this change: Even though I have "changed" from what I was up through my early 20's, it's more that I have evolved. It's an ongoing process and I still struggle with feeling vulnerable and being deeply honest with those to whom I am close. Right now my focus is more on learning how to chose the RIGHT PEOPLE with whom to explore and nurture these more intimate kinds of relationships, and learning how to be realistic and to realistically assess what others bring to interactions. I have setbacks, where I don't always act on what I learned all those years ago. Sometimes I communicate terribly, or not when I most need to. Sometimes I take on too much (absorb others' responsibility for them) and get overwhelmed before I recognize what I'm doing and adjust accordingly. Sometimes I don't recognize it and someone has to point it out to me.

 

I work on this evolution all the time. What motivates me is a desire to be the best, truest version of myself I can possibly be, not for any particular outcome other than the adventure of being a person and all that that means and entails.

 

The effects of my change on others: I can't speak directly for the people in my life but I feel fairly confident that people today find me much more "available" for a relationship with them than I was years ago. In my early 20's I was too skittish and closed off to sustain an intimate relationship.

 

I'd love to hear others' experiences with change--and in fact, it doesn't have to be a change YOU made, but one you've witnessed ANOTHER PERSON make. If the latter, I'm curious what effect their success with change had on you, and on your relationship with that person.

 

I think some interesting stuff could come out of this thread!

[M30USA]

I believe change is most likely to occur when one of the following has happened:

 

1) A person has hit "rock bottom" and now perceives the said change as something which gives them more benefits than remaining the same.

 

2) A person has been disciplined into changing. Even with discipline, though, a person still has to at least see the end result of their actions, which takes me back to #1.

[Shaun-Dro]

I've been obsessed lately with the notion of personal change. Is it really possible, how does one achieve it, what can you realistically expect to change, what motivates you to change, etc.

 

Note that when I ask about "change," I'm talking about the kind of change that requires some deep inner work to effect. The kind of change we hope to make within and for our relationships with others; the kind we (foolishly) hope others will make.

 

So...what about yourself have you changed? I'm interested in knowing what spurred you to a decision to change, what steps you took to make the change, and how you know you actually have achieved lasting change.

 

I'll start:

 

"Before": All the way up to my early 20's, I was a very "self-sufficient" person. I never shared my inner world or vulnerabilities with others--neither caregivers nor peers. I was convinced that it was weak and pathetic to share my vulnerabilities or to ask for help. I also could never admit to loneliness, and went to dinners by myself, and movies, lectures, on vacations, etc. alone because I hated the vulnerability induced by having to ask someone to join me and then be disappointed / feel foolish when they couldn't make it or "couldn't keep up." A friend of mine in my late teens said, "The message you give off is, 'I'll be friends with you, but you have to stay outside a 50-foot radius.'"

 

What made me want to change: At an intense summer training camp, I started to fall apart inside. I felt like a failure and felt deeply alone and unhappy. I could no longer hold up the facade that I was fine and excelling all the time. None of my usual defenses worked for me anymore. I hit a huge rut and the stress was making me sick.

 

Steps I took toward change: I had never been to a shrink of any kind (my family didn't "believe" in such things), but I started going to psychotherapy several times a week. My psychotherapist said I was receiving my first "emotional education," and that's exactly what it was. I began to learn how to recognize and acknowledge and then to embrace my insecurities and vulnerabilities. I began to learn how to be honest about my feelings, and to trust that others who cared about me would care to know how I felt, and it would make us closer, and that "closer" was good, not a dangerous form of "exposure" and better than always toughing it out alone. I was in psychotherapy for 3.5 years, and left when I felt I had learned all I could at that time of my life and in that psychotherapeutic situation.

 

I took what I was learning in my psychotherapy sessions and practiced it in the world with friends old and new, and colleagues. Instead of diving into my journal or other arts I practiced to express my feelings, I communicated my feelings directly to people in my life.

 

I quickly began to experience results. People drew closer to me the more of myself I revealed to them. My relationships became more satisfying. The same friend who in my late teens said she felt I wanted everyone to "keep a 50-foot radius" of distance from me, said to me in my early twenties, "You have opened up so much; I can tell a huge difference from when I first met you."

 

I also during this time took an internship working psychotherapeutically with young children, and this taught me a lot about being kind to your inner child, and your feelings and fears, etc.

 

How I know I changed: I know how to express my feelings. I seek conversations about feelings with others. I don't try to do everything by myself and I am not squeamish about asking for help. I take risks in relation to other people, exposing myself even when I am uncertain of what the response might be. Most of all, I know I have changed because I actively seek out the company of others. I am comfortable being alone, but I don't just settle into being alone; rather, I can identify feelings of loneliness and rather than bolster myself against those feelings, I let them sit there and I draw people into my world to spend time with and share experiences with.

 

The limitations of this change: Even though I have "changed" from what I was up through my early 20's, it's more that I have evolved. It's an ongoing process and I still struggle with feeling vulnerable and being deeply honest with those to whom I am close. Right now my focus is more on learning how to chose the RIGHT PEOPLE with whom to explore and nurture these more intimate kinds of relationships, and learning how to be realistic and to realistically assess what others bring to interactions. I have setbacks, where I don't always act on what I learned all those years ago. Sometimes I communicate terribly, or not when I most need to. Sometimes I take on too much (absorb others' responsibility for them) and get overwhelmed before I recognize what I'm doing and adjust accordingly. Sometimes I don't recognize it and someone has to point it out to me.

 

I work on this evolution all the time. What motivates me is a desire to be the best, truest version of myself I can possibly be, not for any particular outcome other than the adventure of being a person and all that that means and entails.

 

The effects of my change on others: I can't speak directly for the people in my life but I feel fairly confident that people today find me much more "available" for a relationship with them than I was years ago. In my early 20's I was too skittish and closed off to sustain an intimate relationship.

 

I'd love to hear others' experiences with change--and in fact, it doesn't have to be a change YOU made, but one you've witnessed ANOTHER PERSON make. If the latter, I'm curious what effect their success with change had on you, and on your relationship with that person.

 

I think some interesting stuff could come out of this thread!

 

I changed my onetime negative outlook on life. Since turning a new leaf I've had things improve dramatically for me.

[Got it]

I focus a lot of my job on the development of others. For me, what you state above is about core personality changes. They are very hard to make but I have seen people make them. Like other changes, it does take repetition and learning new "muscle memory" to put it into effect.

 

So while I have seen some people do it it is not a usual outcome. Normally I see short term changes and then a backslide to the original behavior.

 

I think what is easier is taking aspects of one's personality and increasing or decreasing said behavior. For example, I am a mid level Dominance but have adapted up quite a bit for work. While it was hard for me, it is not so extreme that it is completely new to me. But I am a low Influence so more of an introvert so trying to be the life of a social party is going to be very hard for me. I would need to really work on that to become a social butterfly especially since my empathy score (for my thinking style) is over in cautious and my altruistic motivator isn't terribly high. So all of that wraps up to being a major personality change to make it happen.

[Michelle ma Belle]

I've always been a very self-aware person and someone who always strives to be better than yesterday.

 

That clarity and resolve got kicked up a notch right after my divorce. I spent a lot of time in therapy and looking at the things that broke down my marriage as well as patterns I repeated and insecurities I still had either before getting married (family dysfunction) or as a result of it. There wasn't a rock I didn't turn over and when I was done, I made a VERY conscious decision NEVER to repeat the same mistakes or behave in the same way any more. And although in my core I'm still ME, I am a better, stronger, more confident, healed version of myself.

 

I know what I want and especially what I don't want and I'm not afraid to ask for it or even demand it. I no longer feel the need to lose myself in relationships or be defined based on the company I keep be it a lover, friend or even a family member.

 

And so much more!

 

Even though I've come a very long way and feel like I've conquered some pretty big demons in my life, I am always and will always be a work in progress. I still have good days and bad ones but thanks to years of great therapy and a resolve that is unwavering, I am armed with great tool that will always keep my head above water and swimming for the shoreline.

[thefooloftheyear]

I grew up very poor....While I didnt care to be filthy rich, I avowed that I simply would NOT live like that any more...I initially had these thoughts at around 14/15 years old...but it took me into my early/mid twenties to really set the pieces in motion to make that happen..

 

It wasnt easy, but Im pretty well off now, and can live a comfortable life..But I never forget how horribly bad it was, and I am forever thankful that I won't see those times again, and neither will my child..I never take it for granted, either...

 

TFY

[SadNLonley]

I believe change is most likely to occur when one of the following has happened:

 

1) A person has hit "rock bottom" and now perceives the said change as something which gives them more benefits than remaining the same.

 

2) A person has been disciplined into changing. Even with discipline, though, a person still has to at least see the end result of their actions, which takes me back to #1.

 

 

Totally agree wth #1. It only took me hitting rock bottom in my breakup that I started realizing so many things about myself. I am in the process of trying to trying to change things, but its not happening overnight. Im assuming it takes time. Its all within too.

 

Its just sad though, that in many cases, thats when you realize change needs to be made.