Too much effort in not getting caught

[gettingstronger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gettingstronger

The problem is that biologically humans were not meant to be monogamous.

 

 

Thats crap-

It isn't, not from a biological perspective, GS. I am not trying to argue. But this is true as I know the research. Don't believe me - look it up yourself.

 

 

Interesting editing there...

[Furious]

Hahahaha!!! Excellent point!!! I used to work with a girl who would just burp very loudly, around co-workers. I thought it was funny that she managed to never burp around customers. And I asked her one day why she just burped like that, and her (predictable) response was that it was human nature, that it was biological. I asked her that the next time she had to go to the bathroom, why go to the bathroom then, just go right there, where ever she was standing, right in front of us. People are crayyyzzzeeeee.

 

SC...you're so cute and so smart.

[Furious]

I like you too.... and thank you. And I agree with you. I wondered if you would ever reply to one of my messages!

 

HS...there's a bridge we all have in common. I standing on it and my arms are open.

[lovinDKT3]

I went through a great deal of effort not to get caught. During the affair I was convinced it was for his benefit. The truth is I knew as long as he didn't know I was in control and safe. I also convinced myself that even if he found out we could fix it and stay together. The truth is, many of you have seen DKT's post, he is a black and white kind of guy when it comes to relationships. Deep down I knew he would walk away so I lied.

 

Bottom line is I wanted to maintain both relationships so the effort was made to keep him from knowing, which meant I was in control.

[Furious]

I went through a great deal of effort not to get caught. During the affair I was convinced it was for his benefit. The truth is I knew as long as he didn't know I was in control and safe. I also convinced myself that even if he found out we could fix it and stay together. The truth is, many of you have seen DKT's post, he is a black and white kind of guy when it comes to relationships. Deep down I knew he would walk away so I lied.

 

Bottom line is I wanted to maintain both relationships so the effort was made to keep him from knowing, which meant I was in control.

 

Thank you lovinDKT3 for your honesty and integrity. I wish you and DKT3 a happy ending. If any couple can reconcile it's the two of you.

 

Hugs:love::love:

[Hope Shimmers]

Thank you lovinDKT3 for your honesty and integrity. I wish you and DKT3 a happy ending. If any couple can reconcile it's the two of you.

 

Hugs:love::love:

 

Yep, they will!

[gettingstronger]

Loving, in retrospect do you think you really were in control or was it an illusion?

[cocorico]

Why....go to so much effort in not getting caught and what this implies. If someone is truly unhappy and has the perfect affair partner why continue with the marriage? Why do so many affairs continue for months and years.

 

Many people divorce without someone waiting in the wings and yet many WS's still cannot file for divorce.

 

In my situation, once I discovered the affair i chose to not stand in the way and told my husband it was unfortunate to have wasted nearly two years of our lives if only he'd been honest from the day he chose to be intimate with someone else. Of course if he had been honest, it would have put a wrench in his freedom to test the waters and most likely open the possibility I would walk away or give me the opportunity to test the waters also. :lmao:

 

I believe affairs and the secrecy is really just a control tactic and the exploration of entitlement, and therein lies the monumental efforts that are employed in not getting caught.

 

It's interesting how an affair partner signs up for the "not getting caught" dynamic. Why is that???? What purpose does it really offer to the affair partner.? Perhaps there are many reasons for this, as the affair partner see's this an advantage over an unsuspecting spouse.

 

I would greatly appreciate the opinion of others as the question "why the secrecy and not getting caught" interpretations from all sides of those in the affair triangle.

 

I guess it would depend on _why_ the WS was having the A in the first place. There are very many reasons and motivations - most experts have lists of about 7-9 categories - and I'd imagine that the need / motivation for secrecy would relate to that.

 

In our case, there was no great effort at secrecy or "not getting caught". While initially he was looking for a means of surviving his M rather than leaving it (at least until the kids were old enough) it was also not a "stay M at all costs" endeavour, more of a "let me try to stretch this out until the kids are old enough to face another split". So it progressed much as any other R would, with the increasing presence of the lovers in all facets of each others' lives over time. There was no sense of being hidden, no notion when we were with his friends or family that they were somehow being bound by some oath of secrecy not to tell the BW nor any conspiracy to blindside her. We simply got on with our (increasingly integrated) lives, and let her get on with her parallel life. And, at the point where it was going to affect her - when he and the kids had decided to move out - he told her.

 

Had she "found out" sooner, it would not have made much difference for us - the difference it would have made would have been to the kids, who may not yet have been recovered enough from the previous traumatic split, who may have taken it really badly instead of handling the split really well when it happened.

[Realist3]

I think we are discussing different definitions of control.

 

Being in control of a situation, keeping an affair secret, is different than exerting control over someone.

[Furious]

I guess it would depend on _why_ the WS was having the A in the first place. There are very many reasons and motivations - most experts have lists of about 7-9 categories - and I'd imagine that the need / motivation for secrecy would relate to that.

 

In our case, there was no great effort at secrecy or "not getting caught". While initially he was looking for a means of surviving his M rather than leaving it (at least until the kids were old enough) it was also not a "stay M at all costs" endeavour, more of a "let me try to stretch this out until the kids are old enough to face another split". So it progressed much as any other R would, with the increasing presence of the lovers in all facets of each others' lives over time. There was no sense of being hidden, no notion when we were with his friends or family that they were somehow being bound by some oath of secrecy not to tell the BW nor any conspiracy to blindside her. We simply got on with our (increasingly integrated) lives, and let her get on with her parallel life. And, at the point where it was going to affect her - when he and the kids had decided to move out - he told her.

 

Had she "found out" sooner, it would not have made much difference for us - the difference it would have made would have been to the kids, who may not yet have been recovered enough from the previous traumatic split, who may have taken it really badly instead of handling the split really well when it happened.

 

 

 

ironically, most children find it offensive that their miserable parents stayed together for them. A miserable marriage bleeds into their children's lives and they are not blind to the dysfunction it creates in their lives.

 

Many cheaters are disillusioned when it comes to as to how they reason being vested in the best interest of their children, dig further and it's usually what is best for the WS that is prominent in the equation.

[lovinDKT3]

Thank you lovinDKT3 for your honesty and integrity. I wish you and DKT3 a happy ending. If any couple can reconcile it's the two of you.

 

Hugs:love::love:

 

 

 

Yep, they will!

 

Thank you both for the vote of confidence. We hear all too often, moreso him, that we will fail.

[lovinDKT3]

Loving, in retrospect do you think you really were in control or was it an illusion?

 

This is a good question, I got busy last night and didn't have time to reply but I've thought about it since.

 

honestly I did feel like I was in total control of all three(Husband, marriage and AP) as long as I could keep the worlds apart. I don't think that anyone would cheat unless they felt like they were in control of the situation.

 

Slowly I started to understand I was losing control. First, DKT's softball buddy saw me with AP, I waited around for a few weeks for the shoe to drop. It was at this point I cut off any meetings with AP. Which resulted in AP starting to pressure me to be honest and tell H. His motivation was to rip me away from my marriage. I slipped and made the comment that lead him to figure it all out. AP started saying he would out me to H. I had lost all control.

 

So to answer, it was a total illusion. The only two things I really had control of once the A started was 1) ending it, 2)how and when DKT found out about it. Both of which I handled poorly.

[Trustnoone]

I read on either this site or another like it that the WS's effort in concealing the affair is measured by their love of their spouse. My WW pulled no stops in keeping her play dates secret. So does that mean she loves me very much? Who knows. I can only say she lied and deceived me more than president Nixon ever has. When caught she totally flipped, will do anything I need. Whatever I want. No request will be denied. I offered reconciliation. No exposure. OMW notified. No contact. MC a must. I have never seen someone work so hard to save a marriage. Her consequences, seeing me live in he!! for 13 months, the slow realization of what she did, now knows two families are destroyed, having to explain why to me and see the pain she caused, and the list goes on. To think she never once thought of a consequence to what her lies and deception would cause. This still amazes me to this day.

[solostand]

That was my takeaway from the interactions with MW's over the decades. When the fear balance tipped, then they executed and moved on. This may have been psychological, or motivated by social dynamics, or money or aspects of child rearing. IME, each situation was unique.

 

I agree but sometimes find MM's behaviour baffling. He worries about some things (don't phone the truck phone today my brother has my truck etc)

 

But then, last week, my ex-husband got drunk, tried to call me and demanded I call him back - then he actually PHONED the MM's house. MM's wife answered. He must have chickened out or something (ex hubby) because he didn't reveal his deep suspicions.

 

When MM told me about it the next day, I was SURE he would run run run. Instead, he said "don't worry. We'll work through it".

 

Odd.

[littleplanet]

Well for one thing - an affair provides an element of danger.....a "thrill" that probably becomes quite addictive.

An illicit romance becomes more compelling than the sanctified one.

Strong motive power.

Stronger than the sense that dictates something should end, before something else starts.

 

But what really amazes me is the need in people to want both: the marriage and the affair.

(Though Oscar Wilde wrote with wonderful wit about that one.)

 

A number of years ago I stumbled upon a strange and curious malady going on in my little town.

Reported by local media......going on in better subdivisions and communities all around me.

 

Seems these couples would come to the end of their romance, marriage - mutually agree to go separate ways.....

Which they would do.

 

What they WOULDN'T do is end their marriage.......to their house.

They would instead divide the thing up - into his space and her space.

And then go right on living (in that way) under the same roof.

(McMansions make this easier.........when there's 4,000 square feet to bounce around in.)

Of course - they were almost always childless. (Otherwise complications of a different sort arise.)

 

But what astounded me no end, were the stated reasons why.

The comfort of not having to live alone.

The inability of each on their own to be able to afford a "home" of this quality.

They could sort of move on from each other...........

just not the house.

And this could go on for years.

 

But back to topic:

All that effort expended to keep a secret.

I think part of the answer is just exactly that.

The secret becomes its own tyrant.

(which is a slightly psycopathic kind of thing, in a way)

 

I mean......everyone has secrets.

Not all secrets are that hurtful, or do that kind of damage.

 

And one thing on the monogamy debate:

I always figured it's a pretty wise thing - if one knows beyond a shadow of a doubt in their little doggie heart - that they are decidedly in one camp or the other.....best to seek like-minded partners!

[fellini]

Quick response really.

 

I disagree with the statement "unmet needs as an excuse".

This is confusing why people have affairs with what ALLOWS them to justify the affair. They have nothing to do with each other.

 

Secrecy: because affairs often sneak up on people who actually were just testing the waters without intending to let it get out of hand.

 

So if needs not met comes in, it gets confused-no husband can meet the needs of an illicit secret affair. Those needs can only be met by the AP. Sorry BS, you can't get there.

 

WS's haven't decided to end their marriages, and keeping it a secret is clearly the only way to guarantee that those specific feelings that come from rendezvous with the AP don't END.

 

Why would someone in the deeps of emotional bliss want to tell his/her spouse about it and end it? If you can get away with it once, then twice, why not adjust the moral compass a little to allow for the affair that you think you now deserve and through which the emotions you are experiencing verify its veracity.

 

But what do I know, Im just a BS :-)

[cocorico]

ironically, most children find it offensive that their miserable parents stayed together for them. A miserable marriage bleeds into their children's lives and they are not blind to the dysfunction it creates in their lives.

 

I agree with this. I'm sure it is why my H's kids realised that it would be better for their father to leave their mother - even though they had begged him to take her back after that earlier split. They were living with the consequences, seeing her renege on her promises, watching the R sink to ever greater levels of toxicity and realising that, during the split, there was at least one happy parent, one happy home, and that was far preferable to abject misery all round. Hence their supporting him to dump her and move out.

 

Many cheaters are disillusioned when it comes to as to how they reason being vested in the best interest of their children, dig further and it's usually what is best for the WS that is prominent in the equation.

 

Possibly, it's impossible to know. But when someone clearly makes a decision that is so obviously against their own best interests, purely because it complies with the expressed interests of their kids, most people would accept that they were "doing it for the kids". Especially when they reversed that decision with such alacrity the minute he kids indicated that they'd support a reversal.

[Minnie09]

I think that most cheaters are just people who aren't well grounded and who have issues with accepting reality. They look for an escape for the most part, not so much from the spouse that won't meet their needs, but from the harsh reality of life and the many unpleasant responsibilities it brings. They want to get lost in a different world, a phantasy world. Kind of like strip club addicts or alcoholics, or people who have other addictions to get a quick fix and lose themselves in a different world that's not real. And because they are afraid or reality, they're also afraid of the unpleasant consequences if they get caught. Hence, the dishonesty and endless efforts to hide their tracks. Because being found out would just add to the responsibilities and more work would have to be done in the real part of their life. Be it a divorce or reading up or being accountable or going to mc, the list goes on.......just more unpleasant things to deal with. And that's what they're running away from in the first place. That's why when they're found out they'd rather sugarcoat and ignore the hurt they've caused and move on quickly, trying to avoid the subject altogether. All too unpleasant, too unfunny, too serious. Too much work and effort.

 

I believe that most affair prone people have signs of an addictive personality. And the substance they're addicted to can be anything. Booze, hot chicks, attention, drugs, you name it. It's just an escape.

 

Alcoholics hide the fact they're alcoholics, and they make a really strong effort to do so, in order to avoid the consequences. So do cheaters. It's the weak people that can't cope with reality that get caught in those addictions, and the weak are the hardest to deal with, because they don't properly deal with themselves, their own issues and therefore are hard to pin down. They're like playdoh - what ever it takes to avoid confrontation, they will do it, they'll change their shape and size, just to weasel themselves out if it ......... That's where the lies come from. Just my 2 cents.

[fellini]

If a tenth of this were true there would be fewer infidelities and almost zero reconciliation. This kind of exaggerstion about the character of people who find themselves in two relationships might make a BS feel better but IMHO is counterproductive to finding the what is truely more disturbing: that people who cheat are normal people.

 

 

I think that most cheaters are just people who aren't well grounded and who have issues with accepting reality. They look for an escape for the most part, not so much from the spouse that won't meet their needs, but from the harsh reality of life and the many unpleasant responsibilities it brings. They want to get lost in a different world, a phantasy world. Kind of like strip club addicts or alcoholics, or people who have other addictions to get a quick fix and lose themselves in a different world that's not real. And because they are afraid or reality, they're also afraid of the unpleasant consequences if they get caught. Hence, the dishonesty and endless efforts to hide their tracks. Because being found out would just add to the responsibilities and more work would have to be done in the real part of their life. Be it a divorce or reading up or being accountable or going to mc, the list goes on.......just more unpleasant things to deal with. And that's what they're running away from in the first place. That's why when they're found out they'd rather sugarcoat and ignore the hurt they've caused and move on quickly, trying to avoid the subject altogether. All too unpleasant, too unfunny, too serious. Too much work and effort.

 

I believe that most affair prone people have signs of an addictive personality. And the substance they're addicted to can be anything. Booze, hot chicks, attention, drugs, you name it. It's just an escape.

 

Alcoholics hide the fact they're alcoholics, and they make a really strong effort to do so, in order to avoid the consequences. So do cheaters. It's the weak people that can't cope with reality that get caught in those addictions, and the weak are the hardest to deal with, because they don't properly deal with themselves, their own issues and therefore are hard to pin down. They're like playdoh - what ever it takes to avoid confrontation, they will do it, they'll change their shape and size, just to weasel themselves out if it ......... That's where the lies come from. Just my 2 cents.

[gettingstronger]

If a tenth of this were true there would be fewer infidelities and almost zero reconciliation. This kind of exaggerstion about the character of people who find themselves in two relationships might make a BS feel better but IMHO is counterproductive to finding the what is truely more disturbing: that people who cheat are normal people.

 

 

I agree and disagree with you on this- I agree that people that cheat are just normal people, but I also think a lot of what Minnie says is true-they are normal people that can not or will not handle life in an appropriate manner-when I think of my husbands personality a lot of what she says rings true-everyone has a darker side, its the inability to control/maintain that sets the cheater apart-

 

There were a million ways he could have handled his life at the point he decided to cheat but he chose the "easy" way for him-the way where he did not have to admit he was feeling selfish and egotistical- he said in therapy he felt badly for feeling like he needed more out of our life when he knew it was just life after all- he knew what he needed/wanted was impossible and unfair to ask for so he took it where he could get it-

 

Losing his integrity and self-respect at the time seemed like a small price to pay to satisfy his ego- he now feels differently as hindsight is BRUTAL!

[Snowflower]

If a tenth of this were true there would be fewer infidelities and almost zero reconciliation. This kind of exaggerstion about the character of people who find themselves in two relationships might make a BS feel better but IMHO is counterproductive to finding the what is truely more disturbing: that people who cheat are normal people.

 

I don't think there is an exaggeration at all.

 

So you don't think that people who cheat have some sort of poor coping mechanism? They are all just normal people who get into a bad situation and can't control themselves? So, there is nothing internal about them (cheating spouses) whether it is their family of origin, their insecurities, fears, etc. that makes them any different than normal?

 

Everyone should be cheaters then! Or, we should all watch out because everyone cheats, even normal people! No one is a safe bet in a relationship.

 

What about all the normal people who don't cheat? What sets them apart from the normal people who do cheat?

 

I agree that most people who cheat are not the devil incarnate. Otherwise, why would anyone want to be in a marriage with them?

 

I honestly don't think there is one really good answer as to why some spouses choose to cheat.

[fellini]

To both previous posts.

 

Imho the ONLY place that cheaters dont handle life properly is in Hiding their second relationship. I my experience they have NO deficiencies outside of their desire to keep the AFFAIR going as long as it suits them. Nothing else about their coping skills or daily life changes.

 

This is rhe scary thing for me. NOTHING IS DIFFERENT. There is just this big dark elephant of a secret in the room

[Realist3]

If a tenth of this were true there would be fewer infidelities and almost zero reconciliation. This kind of exaggerstion about the character of people who find themselves in two relationships might make a BS feel better but IMHO is counterproductive to finding the what is truely more disturbing: that people who cheat are normal people.

 

Well stated!!! The position put forth by the person you quoted is so far out in left field. It shows a true misunderstanding.

[Snowflower]

To both previous posts.

 

Imho the ONLY place that cheaters dont handle life properly is in Hiding their second relationship. I my experience they have NO deficiencies outside of their desire to keep the AFFAIR going as long as it suits them. Nothing else about their coping skills or daily life changes.

 

This is rhe scary thing for me. NOTHING IS DIFFERENT. There is just this big dark elephant of a secret in the room

 

Okay, well that wasn't my experience as a BS.

 

My H went off the deep end once he got entrenched in his A. His work suffered because he spent so much time communicating with OW (a work colleague) during work hours. Obviously that is not example of handling life properly. He was pretty nasty with me at times and did a lot of things just completely out of character for him.

 

So, there was plenty different in my H's affair. It wasn't all smooth on the surface that is for sure.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

 

I would find it very disturbing if someone can cheat and hide it so well that no one on the outside could detect it. I know there are cases where the WS is so good at hiding it that no one knows but since that wasn't my situation I can't speak to that. All I can speak to is the cases where there are obvious changes.

[gettingstronger]

I agree- there were changes I just did not relate the two-why would I? I had no idea how internally weak he was-I would not fathom he would chose that path-thats not the man I knew, its also not the man he wanted to be but he was that person-

 

Just because my husband was able to use my trust and faith against me by being able to deceive me does not mean there were no changes-

 

I think perspective comes from our back story and experiences-some posts/thoughts I can relate to, some I understand but disagree with and some posters I think are just flat out full of it when it comes to their back story so their posts almost never, ever resonate with me-