Furious Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Why....go to so much effort in not getting caught and what this implies. If someone is truly unhappy and has the perfect affair partner why continue with the marriage? Why do so many affairs continue for months and years. Many people divorce without someone waiting in the wings and yet many WS's still cannot file for divorce. In my situation, once I discovered the affair i chose to not stand in the way and told my husband it was unfortunate to have wasted nearly two years of our lives if only he'd been honest from the day he chose to be intimate with someone else. Of course if he had been honest, it would have put a wrench in his freedom to test the waters and most likely open the possibility I would walk away or give me the opportunity to test the waters also. :lmao: I believe affairs and the secrecy is really just a control tactic and the exploration of entitlement, and therein lies the monumental efforts that are employed in not getting caught. It's interesting how an affair partner signs up for the "not getting caught" dynamic. Why is that???? What purpose does it really offer to the affair partner.? Perhaps there are many reasons for this, as the affair partner see's this an advantage over an unsuspecting spouse. I would greatly appreciate the opinion of others as the question "why the secrecy and not getting caught" interpretations from all sides of those in the affair triangle. 4
Sub Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 I think in some cases it's the inability to make THE decision to end the M, or to be responsible for the decision. I've been made aware of three A's fairly recently - my WW, my best friends WW, and my brother. In all three cases, none of the WS's wanted to be the one to make the decision to divorce or separate. They either wanted the BS to do it before the A, or were sure they would do it once the A was discovered. My own WW thought I would leave her once I found out...with the expectation that I wouldn't tell anyone why. 1
gettingstronger Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 I suppose some will say because they don't want to hurt their spouse, but that doesn't even make sense-if the goal is to not hurt the spouse, then don't do things that will hurt your spouse- I have to agree in many cases- the secrecy means that the A is not that important in the long run- they don't want to lose their marriage and end up with the AP, they don't see it as a long term thing, its a distraction and an ego boost-never meant to replace anything but a endless hole in the ego bucket- I know for my H us was clear and upfront that nothing would come of the A- our OW must not have believed him because after the anon text I received that exposed it, I gave him a free pass to do as he pleased-go be with her, no strings from me, no fight, no humiliation, no raking him over the coals, no holding the kids against him-just go, be happy, be fulfilled- I was willing to say "we just grew apart, it was a mutual decision" His mouth gaped open-no way did he want anything authentic there-never, ever crossed his mind- Such an odd and twisted logic these people allow themselves to become involved in- ICK- 7
Snowflower Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) They either wanted the BS to do it before the A, or were sure they would do it once the A was discovered. My own WW thought I would leave her once I found out...with the expectation that I wouldn't tell anyone why. I gave him a free pass to do as he pleased-go be with her, no strings from me, no fight, no humiliation, no raking him over the coals, no holding the kids against him-just go, be happy, be fulfilled- I was willing to say "we just grew apart, it was a mutual decision" ICK- These two statements seem to contradict each other (not calling you out Sub and GS) but just show how irrational the cheating spouse can be. On one hand, you have the spouse who passive-aggressively gets into an A and hopes their betrayed spouse will do the dirty work of divorce and keep the secret as to why the marriage ended. But no, the CS doesn't always want that because when the betrayed tells tell them to go ahead and go be with their dream-mate (AP), and even offers to not tell the truth about the A, well, the CS doesn't like that either. It is seriously confusing and this type of stuff reminds me of how irrational my H was during his A. And some say the affair delusion (fog) doesn't exist, lol! Edited June 10, 2014 by Snowflower 1
central Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 I'll speculate, as I have not been in this situation. I think the marriage usually isn't so bad to want to end it outright, but isn't so good because some important needs are not being met. Those are met by the OM/OW. So, in order to keep the best of both worlds (neither of which is usually sufficient alone), secrecy is attempted (and usually works, as over 85% of affairs are never revealed). Even if the AP is "perfect" there are usually other constraints, such as finances or children that make the decision difficult. 4
Sub Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 These two statements seem to contradict each other (not calling you out Sub and GS) but just show how irrational the cheating spouse can be. On one hand, you have the spouse who passive-aggressively gets into an A and hopes their betrayed spouse will do the dirty work of divorce and keep the secret as to why the marriage ended. But no, the CS doesn't always want that because when the betrayed tells tell them to go ahead and go be with their dream-mate (AP), and even offers to not tell the truth about the A, well, the CS doesn't like that either. It is seriously confusing! Yes, and at times illogical. But I think timing is key. Pre-discovery and even immediately after it, they think very differently than when the dust has settled and reality sets in. 2
central Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 So many people cheat that it's obvous that few people are naturally and happily monogamous (some are, of course). I don't believe monogamy is natural, but have been monogamous whenever I've been with a partner who expects it. The rest of the time I've been in consensually non-monogamous relationships. Sadly, few people will consider the idea, clinging to a dysfunctional monogamy even though it seems to make a lot of sense given what so many try to do secretly. If it's open and discussed, it doesn't have to be a traumatic deal-breaker for a relationship.
Author Furious Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 I think in some cases it's the inability to make THE decision to end the M, or to be responsible for the decision. I've been made aware of three A's fairly recently - my WW, my best friends WW, and my brother. In all three cases, none of the WS's wanted to be the one to make the decision to divorce or separate. They either wanted the BS to do it before the A, or were sure they would do it once the A was discovered. My own WW thought I would leave her once I found out...with the expectation that I wouldn't tell anyone why. Ironic ,isn't it that they could choose a non-choice, which an affair in my opinion really is. Seems so counterproductive that the fear of ending the marriage is worse than blowing it up. Smh 2
Author Furious Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 I'll speculate, as I have not been in this situation. I think the marriage usually isn't so bad to want to end it outright, but isn't so good because some important needs are not being met. Those are met by the OM/OW. So, in order to keep the best of both worlds (neither of which is usually sufficient alone), secrecy is attempted (and usually works, as over 85% of affairs are never revealed). Even if the AP is "perfect" there are usually other constraints, such as finances or children that make the decision difficult. There is no such thing as a relationship that meets all your needs at all times. I believe that cheating is more about character than it is about needs. 4
central Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Sure, it's about character. However, if half or more of all people exhibit the same character trait, can it still be called a flaw, or is it normal human nature? If it's human nature, is nature wrong, or are our socially created expectations unrealistic?
carhill Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 The fear of ending the marriage superseded the fear of getting caught so the efforts going into not getting caught were motivated by the fear of ending the marriage. That was my takeaway from the interactions with MW's over the decades. When the fear balance tipped, then they executed and moved on. This may have been psychological, or motivated by social dynamics, or money or aspects of child rearing. IME, each situation was unique. All the machinations didn't make sense to me at the beginning but became so commonplace that I came to accept them as a subset of 'normal'. These days I simply avoid those situations when faced with them. Someone else's problem. At the other end of the spectrum are those who do believe the effort of not getting caught is worth the reward, and that goes for anything in life. They're fearless. Whatever they can do to benefit themselves, they do. Pure pragmatism. If deception gets them what they want, then that's what they do. It works! 5
Sub Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Sure, it's about character. However, if half or more of all people exhibit the same character trait, can it still be called a flaw, or is it normal human nature? If it's human nature, is nature wrong, or are our socially created expectations unrealistic? I think you're overstating how many people exhibit this "flaw". If it was proven that most people who have A's or cheat do so simply because they just don't want to be monogamous, I'd see your point. I don't think that's the case. 1
Author Furious Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 The fear of ending the marriage superseded the fear of getting caught so the efforts going into not getting caught were motivated by the fear of ending the marriage. That was my takeaway from the interactions with MW's over the decades. When the fear balance tipped, then they executed and moved on. This may have been psychological, or motivated by social dynamics, or money or aspects of child rearing. IME, each situation was unique. All the machinations didn't make sense to me at the beginning but became so commonplace that I came to accept them as a subset of 'normal'. These days I simply avoid those situations when faced with them. Someone else's problem. At the other end of the spectrum are those who do believe the effort of not getting caught is worth the reward, and that goes for anything in life. They're fearless. Whatever they can do to benefit themselves, they do. Pure pragmatism. If deception gets them what they want, then that's what they do. It works! I see your point as to the differences in the spectrum of those who cheat to benefit themselves and those who are perhaps fearful of making a real decision to divorce. Your insight as to the separate dynamics you've described are illuminating , as I find your post to be quite interesting.
Spark1111 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 And then there is the subset of cheater who loves to sneak and rebel against the mean mommy or daddy of their childhood and project that upon their unsuspecting spouse. When exposed and even PERMITTED amicably to live with this soul mate, is all goes PSSST like hot air being let out of a balloon. The AP is often empowered by being selected to participate in the deception because it makes the feel oh-so special that he is willing to risk his mediocre:laugh: marriage, family, legacy for them....in some warped way. 5
beach Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Most just think they won't get caught - or IF/WHEN they get caught they can talk their way out of any severe consequences. Entitlement? Oh yes! 7
oldshirt Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Many affairs are not about being deeply dissatisfied with marriage and want to replace the spouse and completely uprooting their homes and lives, but rather just getting some additional fun and excitement. In that instance their options are to pursue some form of open marriage or cheat and try to get away with it. Open marriage takes a lot of work and involves a high degree of communication antd cooperation and compromise. And it involves a lot of rules and boundaries. And open marriage often means you can get your extra fun but your spouse chefs to also and people often have a problem with that. Cheating is just simply easier and is the path of least resistance for a lot of people. It just comes down to having your cake and eating it too. Getting away with cheating is about having a stable spouse and family life at home but getting the additional fun and excitement of some extra poon on the side. 2
Author Furious Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 And then there is the subset of cheater who loves to sneak and rebel against the mean mommy or daddy of their childhood and project that upon their unsuspecting spouse. When exposed and even PERMITTED amicably to live with this soul mate, is all goes PSSST like hot air being let out of a balloon. The AP is often empowered by being selected to participate in the deception because it makes the feel oh-so special that he is willing to risk his mediocre:laugh: marriage, family, legacy for them....in some warped way. it's interesting how when the WS has the freedom and secrecy removed from their affair relationship, more often than not, the reality versus the affair stumbles. Without the secrecy and rebellion, the relationship becomes just like any regular relationship with normal challenges. 5
Realist3 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Why....go to so much effort in not getting caught and what this implies. If someone is truly unhappy and has the perfect affair partner why continue with the marriage? Why do so many affairs continue for months and years. After you have a system in place, it really doesn't take much effort. Sure at first it takes some planning and experimentation, but after that it is a breeze. As to the second part of your question; you don't have to be 'so unhappy' to have an affair. Secondly, there are many other factors that weigh into the equation besides the two AP's bond with each other. As to the third question; because they can, and they enjoy it. It is an addition to their life they want to keep going. As years go by it is just a normal part of your life. [qoute]Many people divorce without someone waiting in the wings and yet many WS's still cannot file for divorce. Very true. It is not that they can't divorce, it is that they don't want to. Carhill, mentioned fear, and I think that probably plays a certain role, especially when the dynamics are so vastly complicated. Meaning it is easier to stay doing what we are doing than turn everyone's world upside down not knowing the outcome may be. In my situation, once I discovered the affair i chose to not stand in the way and told my husband it was unfortunate to have wasted nearly two years of our lives if only he'd been honest from the day he chose to be intimate with someone else. Of course if he had been honest, it would have put a wrench in his freedom to test the waters and most likely open the possibility I would walk away or give me the opportunity to test the waters also. :lmao: No part of life is wasted. It may not have been how you wanted or expected it to be, but it is still part of your journey, and part of what makes you, you. I believe affairs and the secrecy is really just a control tactic and the exploration of entitlement, and therein lies the monumental efforts that are employed in not getting caught. Entitlement, maybe... Control? I don't see it. As I mentioned before what may seem 'monumental' to you, are not nearly as extraordinary as they may seem at first blush. Most people that enter into affairs are way too confident in not being caught, and most of them make really stupid mistakes. It's interesting how an affair partner signs up for the "not getting caught" dynamic. Why is that???? What purpose does it really offer to the affair partner.? Perhaps there are many reasons for this, as the affair partner see's this an advantage over an unsuspecting spouse. Advantage? Not seeing that at all. They sign up for it, as I mentioned above, because they enjoy that addition to their life. It really is a simple as that.
notserene Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Many affairs are not about being deeply dissatisfied with marriage and want to replace the spouse and completely uprooting their homes and lives, but rather just getting some additional fun and excitement. In that instance their options are to pursue some form of open marriage or cheat and try to get away with it. Open marriage takes a lot of work and involves a high degree of communication antd cooperation and compromise. And it involves a lot of rules and boundaries. And open marriage often means you can get your extra fun but your spouse chefs to also and people often have a problem with that. Cheating is just simply easier and is the path of least resistance for a lot of people. It just comes down to having your cake and eating it too. Getting away with cheating is about having a stable spouse and family life at home but getting the additional fun and excitement of some extra poon on the side. I have heard that so-called "exit affairs" usually only last a short time before the WS confesses and leaves for the OP. It is clear from everything I have read and heard that in most affair situation the WS usually has no intention of leaving...but he/she is doing something that could lead to them being thrown out if caught. A lot of risk for what reward exactly? I guess affairs are exciting and fun for some people but they seem like they cause a lot of stress for the participants even if they are never discovered.
Realist3 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 it's interesting how when the WS has the freedom and secrecy removed from their affair relationship, more often than not, the reality versus the affair stumbles. Without the secrecy and rebellion, the relationship becomes just like any regular relationship with normal challenges. And that reality includes a lot of stumbling stones. The deck is stacked against them for many many reasons. Which again answers one of your previous questions about why they keep it secret.
Author Furious Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) After you have a system in place, it really doesn't take much effort. Sure at first it takes some planning and experimentation, but after that it is a breeze. As to the second part of your question; you don't have to be 'so unhappy' to have an affair. Secondly, there are many other factors that weigh into the equation besides the two AP's bond with each other. As to the third question; because they can, and they enjoy it. It is an addition to their life they want to keep going. As years go by it is just a normal part of your life. [qoute]Many people divorce without someone waiting in the wings and yet many WS's still cannot file for divorce. Very true. It is not that they can't divorce, it is that they don't want to. Carhill, mentioned fear, and I think that probably plays a certain role, especially when the dynamics are so vastly complicated. Meaning it is easier to stay doing what we are doing than turn everyone's world upside down not knowing the outcome may be. No part of life is wasted. It may not have been how you wanted or expected it to be, but it is still part of your journey, and part of what makes you, you. Entitlement, maybe... Control? I don't see it. As I mentioned before what may seem 'monumental' to you, are not nearly as extraordinary as they may seem at first blush. Most people that enter into affairs are way too confident in not being caught, and most of them make really stupid mistakes. Advantage? Not seeing that at all. They sign up for it, as I mentioned above, because they enjoy that addition to their life. It really is a simple as that. I do see that during my husband's affair it was a waste of nearly two years of my life. I have never denied my husband his reality and i feel he denied me two years of my reality. It's flippant to insinuate that two years of deceit is part of my journey. If I had wanted a journey it would have been a two year journey across Europe in five star hotels and a lover in each city.:laugh: Being deceived is something I did not sign up for, and yet it is what it is. ironically, being cheated on didn't change me in the least, it only reaffirmed who I've always been. I understand that some people want their cake and eat it too. Sadly, I don't have a sweet tooth, I'm more of a savoury person. Edited June 10, 2014 by Furious 4
Realist3 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Most people don't sign up for cancer either, but guess what?, it is part of their journey. Bad things happen in life including getting deceived. It may not be fun or what you wanted, but it is what it is.
Author Furious Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 Most people don't sign up for cancer either, but guess what?, it is part of their journey. Bad things happen in life including getting deceived. It may not be fun or what you wanted, but it is what it is. That's lame, people don't chose to get sick, to insinuate a being cheated on is like being diagnosed with cancer is rather skewed. Despite myself, I like you Realist....and I wish you good Heath. 4
Realist3 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 That's lame, people don't chose to get sick, to insinuate a being cheated on is like being diagnosed with cancer is rather skewed. Despite myself, I like you Realist....and I wish you good Heath. I like you too. My point was that things happen to us that we do not get to choose. We learn from bad things that happen to us, as much, if not more than the good. It is not wasted. 2
Realist3 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Think about it like this. Maybe that affair kept you from spending more time of your life in that relationship than necessary.
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