Artie Lang Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 it's a shame people don't realize these absurdities until it blows up in their face and people end up getting hurt- emotionally and/or physically. 1
dichotomy Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I can honestly say that I have never, not during our affair, or our marriage had conversation one with my affair partner/husband about his physical relationship with his wife (I assumed they were having sex, they were married). I know it seems to be often the case around here, but I think that is a really odd thing to discuss. Why would someone not assume their affair partner was intimate with their spouse? Nor did he and I have any discussion regarding either one of us having other physical relationships (I wasn't) while we were in our affair. Some MM tell their female AP that sex is non existent as part of making the affair seem easier and more justified. And in the case of MW - the MAP wants to feel like stud and/or does not want to think that the other guy may have put his ...where he just put his ... well you get the point guys get weird about that stuff. So it is all around easier if one or both believe - the only one having any real sex - or sex at all are the AP. Also maybe they just pretend its not happening and avoid the discussion or mental pictures all together of whats happening in either of their marriages.
Realist3 Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I don't think you considered the irony of this when you posted it. I get what you mean, don't take me wrong. I'm just a bit amused...because I can't think of a single BS who hasn't felt exactly like that on d-day. Oh I get it, believe me.
fellini Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) It's pretty easy to think that my WS was imagining that her AP would be in a "committed affair" with her. Kind of, hey, Im throwing my marriage out the window here, you better be faithful to me. The secrecy and conspiracy of it all would certainly suffice to making them both feel that fidelity between them was understood. What got to my WS after DDay though was telling herself, "if he really loved me, he wouldn't have wanted an affair with me knowing how much damage it was going to do to me and my family when we got caught." Now that really got to me, so I asked her for clarification: "Are you saying that you blame your AP for not stopping you? For accepting you?" "Well, yes. And now I realise although I went about it the wrong way, he is just as big a dick for wanting me in that way". Edited June 9, 2014 by fellini
WasOtherWoman Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Some MM tell their female AP that sex is non existent as part of making the affair seem easier and more justified. And in the case of MW - the MAP wants to feel like stud and/or does not want to think that the other guy may have put his ...where he just put his ... well you get the point guys get weird about that stuff. So it is all around easier if one or both believe - the only one having any real sex - or sex at all are the AP. Also maybe they just pretend its not happening and avoid the discussion or mental pictures all together of whats happening in either of their marriages. I understand the above but I never engaged in the discussion with my affair partner because I assumed that he was having sex with his then wife. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't, but I certainly would never have believed him anyway had he told me they were not. I was a single OW while we were in our affair. We never had any discussions about Who else I may or may not have been sleeping with because he knew that as long as he had a wife he did not have the right to ask.
road Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) "you are exclusive to me but i understand your spouse does not count, but anyone else does." Many a OM make the WW not have sex with the BH. Many a WW cut off their BH because they do not want to cheat on their OM/partner in cheating. Many a WW/WH expect their BW/BH to not go and have their own affair and get extremely jealous is they do. Edited June 9, 2014 by road 1
road Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 WW's AP said he was in a sexless marriage, however, WW and I were trying to get pregnant. So she had two people exclusive to her. AP told her how bad his marriage was and they even slept in separate bedrooms! So she is exclusive to him and myself. Lucky me. After I read these stories on this forum I realized I am lucky. So many people have it so much worse than I. Not to say it lessens anyone's pain. Reality is I can't comprehend the thoughts of those that cheat. I love my wife, asked for her hand in marriage, had a beautiful wedding, then infidelity strikes. I would give anything to understand how a WS thinks before and during an affair. How could she think I would be happy that she is with someone else? Fog? Don't believe in it. Marriage difficult? Work on it. Be with someone else? That's easier. Now look at all the problems infidelity caused. I'm on my soapbox again. I just don't understand. Did your WW get pregnant?
Mycatsnuggles Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I understand the hypocrisy of the belief that my MOM would be "faithful" to me besides his wife but it is what we agreed upon. We both knew we were still intimate w our spouses but agreed no one else. It is what I believed occurred during the majority of the affair, until the day I learned how naive I was. For at least the final 3 months of our affair he was at the very least looking for my replacement, more likely he had been seeing other women besides myself for a very long time. While I had no justification for my emotions it did feel like being kicked in the chest. Took my breath away to realize all the lies he had told me despite my pleas for honesty. Towards the end when I began to suspect him of seeing someone else I even told him to share with me, our conversation I'm not your wife, if you want to see others I cannot stop you, just be honest with me. He never was he denied it to the very end. Kept declaring his undying love for me and how I could never be replaced. In my mind our affair had an emotional component along with the physical. I am still baffalled by his continued deception to me. I really wanted to know how naive and stupid I was to believe his lies for so long. In the end his deception ended any of the fake feelings I had for him. In some affairs at least one of the partners feels as though they are in a dual relationship. We can justify sex with their spouse as this was a known factor at the beginning of the affair. Anyone else is not acceptable. The affair began because we thought (mistakenly) that we were special, we fulfilled a missing element in the marriage that could only be filled by ourselves. I was gullible and naive but yes I expected his fidelity and gave him mine during the affair.
violet1 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) I understand the hypocrisy of the belief that my MOM would be "faithful" to me besides his wife but it is what we agreed upon. We both knew we were still intimate w our spouses but agreed no one else. It is what I believed occurred during the majority of the affair, until the day I learned how naive I was. For at least the final 3 months of our affair he was at the very least looking for my replacement, more likely he had been seeing other women besides myself for a very long time. While I had no justification for my emotions it did feel like being kicked in the chest. Took my breath away to realize all the lies he had told me despite my pleas for honesty. Towards the end when I began to suspect him of seeing someone else I even told him to share with me, our conversation I'm not your wife, if you want to see others I cannot stop you, just be honest with me. He never was he denied it to the very end. Kept declaring his undying love for me and how I could never be replaced. In my mind our affair had an emotional component along with the physical. I am still baffalled by his continued deception to me. I really wanted to know how naive and stupid I was to believe his lies for so long. In the end his deception ended any of the fake feelings I had for him. In some affairs at least one of the partners feels as though they are in a dual relationship. We can justify sex with their spouse as this was a known factor at the beginning of the affair. Anyone else is not acceptable. The affair began because we thought (mistakenly) that we were special, we fulfilled a missing element in the marriage that could only be filled by ourselves. I was gullible and naive but yes I expected his fidelity and gave him mine during the affair. This is exactly how I felt during my A. My exMM and I also agreed upon an exclusive affair. The only exception was our spouses. The way I looked at it is that we both only had a limited amount of spare time. I didn't want to share the limited time with an OOW. He and I were very wrapped up in our affair. To my knowledge he didn't have another AP. I would have been crushed (at the time, not now) if I had found out he did. Yes, it's hypocritical and selfish thinking but I understand it. I don't understand an MM or MW expecting a single AP to be exclusive though. That one seriously makes no sense to me. I think Realist also has a point too. I wanted to feel special. At the time I was so attention starved. It would have bothered me if my exMM was seeking out others. It would have made me feel like I was a sex object. Yes, it sounds ridiculous, but that's how I felt at the time. Edited June 10, 2014 by violet1
Author atreides Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 ok, thanks for the responses. To add to my question, some of you said that you would be devastated if you found out that your AP would "cheat" on you. Ok, why not just go into the affair where such emotion is allowed? I guess what i am getting at is if for when it get's physical, or let me say this I believe most affairs are about the "physical" that to leave out the "right/wrong" on this specifically to get just what you want "physically" out of the affair and thus the "emotional" exclusivity would be moot where as the argument of safe sex make more sense to me with multiple partners. I take issue with justifications, to me there is no "understanding" but "understanding" does not need to exist for something to happen. That said, it would at least be more logical beyond the contradiction to say "yep i am wrong to be in an affair, I am not advocating or like another poster, making a brochure about it and will take the consequences on the chin. As for my AP, it is what it is" I just don't get how the emotional side can be so strong as to worrying about your AP cheating on you. For me, it is not so much about being a serial cheater when i say this, but once the line is crossed, why does the variable of the AP matter? They could be interchangeable logically speaking if certain things click with the new partner. It seems to me and mostly from women here on ls and a maybe a few guys that the ap is the new spouse but then not at the same time because the waywards do go back to the marriage to partake in the "mundane" of life as in spouse or parent obligations and other such stuff?
Mycatsnuggles Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 If I am understanding your question you cannot understand why people in affairs don't just screw and have no emotions for each other just unlimited sex with numerous partners? I'm sorry to tell you but I believe with most affairs even my own, we both had feelings for each other. We were not interchangeable. Because I had sex with one OM did not mean I wanted to or even thought of having sex with another. He was the man I wanted, if it wasn't him then it wasn't anyone. I am assuming your a BS and it makes you feel better to believe there are never strong emotions, or we are so sub human we are able to totally shut off feelings. Sorry that is just not the case. Very few WS are going to admit to having feelings for their other, but affairs in most instances are about much more then sex. He was my friend, my companion, my lover and when he "cheated" on me it hurt.
Author atreides Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 If I am understanding your question you cannot understand why people in affairs don't just screw and have no emotions for each other just unlimited sex with numerous partners? I'm sorry to tell you but I believe with most affairs even my own, we both had feelings for each other. We were not interchangeable. Because I had sex with one OM did not mean I wanted to or even thought of having sex with another. He was the man I wanted, if it wasn't him then it wasn't anyone. I am assuming your a BS and it makes you feel better to believe there are never strong emotions, or we are so sub human we are able to totally shut off feelings. Sorry that is just not the case. Very few WS are going to admit to having feelings for their other, but affairs in most instances are about much more then sex. He was my friend, my companion, my lover and when he "cheated" on me it hurt. No i am not saying "to just screw" you obviously select whom you want to be with and have feelings but i am sure there are more than just one whom you would find an acceptable AP from a known social circle or work. What I am after is the contradiction and trying to understand the emotional pain from the AP "cheating" when it is a cheat itself. I am trying to grasp the process for which it is arrived at which in most cases is not spontaneous, i am pretty sure. I am saying decisions are made to go into an affair for whatever reason and going in the wayward "knows what they are doing is a cheat" but decides to ask for exclusivity. That is why i brought up the variable of affair partner. Also a member posted just that last week, that the affair partner was interchangeable, thus it added to what i heard at this party a few days ago during conversation. To me it would make more sense, even if with emotional attachment, that why is it not then understood under the same circumstance process when the AP cheats or breaks the relationship? It is not an emotionless shut off i expect but the realization of the contradiction and thus why even here on LS so many waywards create threads solely based on why did they leave or have another partner? It is a lot going on in other words where thoughts must be in total conflict.
violet1 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 My A was more of an EA than a PA. We only saw each other maybe 6 times total. I sought out my A online. I was looking for more of an emotional than a physical connection because I was very lonely in my M. I wanted an escape from it all. I wanted to find a secret friend and supplement what was missing in my M. Like I mentioned earlier, I wanted to feel special. I didn't want to be one of many other women. He wanted the same so we agreed to an exclusive affair. I wouldn't say that I thought of him as a new spouse though. I don't know what I thought of him as honestly. Affairs slowly change who you are and how you perceive things. I was pretty messed up. I definitely didn't see or think straight.
Mycatsnuggles Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Basically, you believe " I am cheating so I do not deserve to ask for anything from the person I am sharing my heart and soul with". Sorry it really does appear as though you believe someone who cheats has no emotions. I hope you divorced you cheating soulless spouse. I cannot imagine recovering feelings for someone you describe as so empty. People who have affairs are no different then you or anyone else. I have sat in church and wondered how many fellow cheaters surround me. I feel pretty positive there are many and there is no scarlet letter or hussy clothes to distinguish them. The people at your party include cheaters. We shop at the grocery store, take kids to little league and function in every day life. Affair partners are no more interchangeable then marriage partners or parents. If your parent divorced, do you transfer all your feelings to the new step parent? Without regard or a sense of loss for the original parent. An affair is very similar. An affair is filled with cognitive dissonance. It's where the struggle and pain come from. Logically we know what we do makes no sense but that does not stop us from wanting it.
Author atreides Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 Basically, you believe " I am cheating so I do not deserve to ask for anything from the person I am sharing my heart and soul with". Sorry it really does appear as though you believe someone who cheats has no emotions. I hope you divorced you cheating soulless spouse. I cannot imagine recovering feelings for someone you describe as so empty. NO that is not what i am saying, you used "deserve".. not the context. How is the context, as in conflicting thoughts and how it endures. I also do not consider my self a BS or cheated on via an affair or ONS. 15 years married, but i am intrigued by the topic. When you say heart and soul, is that with your spouse or affair partner? People who have affairs are no different then you or anyone else. I have sat in church and wondered how many fellow cheaters surround me. I feel pretty positive there are many and there is no scarlet letter or hussy clothes to distinguish them. The people at your party include cheaters. We shop at the grocery store, take kids to little league and function in every day life. Affair partners are no more interchangeable then marriage partners or parents. This is not about identifying a person either, it is about the process and how it is rationalized. If your parent divorced, do you transfer all your feelings to the new step parent? Without regard or a sense of loss for the original parent. An affair is very similar. I would disagree with this analogy as in an affair is entered under secrecy/deception and the knowing it is "wrong" normally, the point is not about emotional transfer but how such strong emotions can exist within the conflicting thoughts that certainly must take place during an affair. How through the process of knowing what is being done is deception but yet justified somehow to continue that where does rationality win out that I would describe as being the stronger side when at home with family and spouse vs such strong emotion for the affair partner. An affair is filled with cognitive dissonance. It's where the struggle and pain come from. Logically we know what we do makes no sense but that does not stop us from wanting it. That is a part of what i am after, how and why does it not stop? I know when i am doing something wrong for example, I know to "stop" myself with one side of what i feel for a crude example. I am very interested in when one gets to the point that pushes them over the edge.
DKT3 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 I'm wondering if the WS care at all that their BS's also expect to be your only sex partner? I just simply have a hard time connecting with the idea that one can expect more then they are willing to give. "Oh I want to feel special" just doesn't cut it. Does your spouse deserve to feel special? I'm not making a judgement here, this is a serious question one in which my WW can only answer "I don't have an answer that will make it better for you" 1
Author atreides Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 I'm wondering if the WS care at all that their BS's also expect to be your only sex partner? I just simply have a hard time connecting with the idea that one can expect more then they are willing to give. "Oh I want to feel special" just doesn't cut it. Does your spouse deserve to feel special? I'm not making a judgement here, this is a serious question one in which my WW can only answer "I don't have an answer that will make it better for you" yea, i just read one of your posts on the OM forum where there again, the OP was posting about how they feel about the AP, but i believe to be in R for her M? I scratch my head, when i hear, "i cannot help it, i still love..." but then say, "I love my H." I do have a male friend who cheated, but he specifically wanted to be intimate sexually with another women, no "love," no huge amount of emotional connection. He knew exactly what he wanted from his affair AP. It too was a build-up to meet and grow to like her (the AP). He got caught and was forgiven and they are still together, but i just don't know how a BS to a WS can rationalize, "i can't help it, i still love.." the AP. How can a BS recover from that? That very thread, the OP is devastated that she wont see the guy anymore even though they are in NC but what about working on her marriage if in R? Where does rationalization come in vs the "bio-chemicals" & feelings that one allows to take over their better judgement?
DKT3 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 yea, i just read one of your posts on the OM forum where there again, the OP was posting about how they feel about the AP, but i believe to be in R for her M? I scratch my head, when i hear, "i cannot help it, i still love..." but then say, "I love my H." I do have a male friend who cheated, but he specifically wanted to be intimate sexually with another women, no "love," no huge amount of emotional connection. He knew exactly what he wanted from his affair AP. It too was a build-up to meet and grow to like her (the AP). He got caught and was forgiven and they are still together, but i just don't know how a BS to a WS can rationalize, "i can't help it, i still love.." the AP. How can a BS recover from that? That very thread, the OP is devastated that she wont see the guy anymore even though they are in NC but what about working on her marriage if in R? Where does rationalization come in vs the "bio-chemicals" & feelings that one allows to take over their better judgement? What my wife did during the affair was bad enough, but to have to sit and watch her fall apart because it was over would be too much for me. How dare you claim love for me while grieving and pining for him. Not to mention even more humiliation and lack of respect to openly break down in front of me. I'm not that understanding. 2
road Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 No i am not saying "to just screw" you obviously select whom you want to be with and have feelings but i am sure there are more than just one whom you would find an acceptable AP from a known social circle or work. What I am after is the contradiction and trying to understand the emotional pain from the AP "cheating" when it is a cheat itself. I am trying to grasp the process for which it is arrived at which in most cases is not spontaneous, i am pretty sure. I am saying decisions are made to go into an affair for whatever reason and going in the wayward "knows what they are doing is a cheat" but decides to ask for exclusivity. That is why i brought up the variable of affair partner. Also a member posted just that last week, that the affair partner was interchangeable, thus it added to what i heard at this party a few days ago during conversation. To me it would make more sense, even if with emotional attachment, that why is it not then understood under the same circumstance process when the AP cheats or breaks the relationship? It is not an emotionless shut off i expect but the realization of the contradiction and thus why even here on LS so many waywards create threads solely based on why did they leave or have another partner? It is a lot going on in other words where thoughts must be in total conflict. Can this be translated to short comprehensible English?
notserene Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 What my wife did during the affair was bad enough, but to have to sit and watch her fall apart because it was over would be too much for me. How dare you claim love for me while grieving and pining for him. Not to mention even more humiliation and lack of respect to openly break down in front of me. I'm not that understanding. I don't think I could take that either. My WH was well and truly done with OW when we began the reconciliation process. I couldn't try to reconcile with someone who wanted to be somewhere else. I would have told him to leave if that were the case. If you're in a marriage, longing for your AP but your spouse is still willing to try to put things back together...you are very lucky.
fellini Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 I think talking about infidelity is not the same as knowing from the perspective of the WS / AP. I think a fair amount of rationalisation is being thrust upon a situation that was, frankly speaking, not interested in rationalisations. To impose a line of thinking, or to ask post affair, how two minds make sense of incongruities is to ask of people something they simply, more than likely, never did. And the reason they did not address those questions, as far as Langley is concerned, is because to do so would force them to make a decision. A DECISION they already KNOW they are not prepared to make: Leave my H to be with the AP or end my affair because my behaviour is morally incomprehensible. As a BS, the issue is perhaps more difficult: Learning to live without a concept of TRUTH that we are accustomed to live with - to learn to see the truth of the affair as a contradiction. It's possible that we are well prepared to see life's contradictions in terms of abstracts, realities, even experience. But to embrace an emotional contradiction: she loved me, and yet she still had her A, felt for a time her AP was her happiness, but yet, yet, she still loves me, are extremely difficult to swallow. To internalise, to accept, to get beyond. But there is no "rational" reason for me to believe that this contradiction is not as true and any other truth I hold about love, marriage, fidelity. 4
Author atreides Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) I think talking about infidelity is not the same as knowing from the perspective of the WS / AP. I think a fair amount of rationalisation is being thrust upon a situation that was, frankly speaking, not interested in rationalisations. To impose a line of thinking, or to ask post affair, how two minds make sense of incongruities is to ask of people something they simply, more than likely, never did. And the reason they did not address those questions, as far as Langley is concerned, is because to do so would force them to make a decision. A DECISION they already KNOW they are not prepared to make: Leave my H to be with the AP or end my affair because my behaviour is morally incomprehensible. As a BS, the issue is perhaps more difficult: Learning to live without a concept of TRUTH that we are accustomed to live with - to learn to see the truth of the affair as a contradiction. It's possible that we are well prepared to see life's contradictions in terms of abstracts, realities, even experience. But to embrace an emotional contradiction: she loved me, and yet she still had her A, felt for a time her AP was her happiness, but yet, yet, she still loves me, are extremely difficult to swallow. To internalise, to accept, to get beyond. But there is no "rational" reason for me to believe that this contradiction is not as true and any other truth I hold about love, marriage, fidelity. Well said, but while we understand that there is a contradiction, affairs nonetheless go on and waywards rationalize in some way or another to cross the line. For example and one i know of from someone close to me with some improvisation and trying to show thought conflict. a woman is on a business trip... it's been a long seminar and time to get a late.... in line Mr Z is also waiting for coffee.... she finds him attractive. thought 1. nice looking guy, he dresses nice... something along the lines of "he's trouble but no harm no foul in finding someone attractive" They strike up a conversation, get to know each other and find out they are at this seminar for the same reasons the line is taking too long and they decide to go elsewhere. thought 2. he is really nice and has a lot in common with me, also i am hungry so the hotel restaurant is fine... no big deal.. this is harmless so they eat lunch, have more great conversation, they are relaxed, have a good time. Find more things in common, like family life and such. They decide to exchange contact information thought 3. I am uncomfortable giving my number, i'm married, i will give him my facebook contact. So they exchange FB info. ... Back home, nice to see hubby but he forgot to fix the cabinet, why does he not listen to her? He is always on the xBox or football. The kids are asking for all kinds of things and the house is a mess... she can't seem to relax thought 4. it was so nice on business trip, i got to relax and have a good time. i wonder how mr z is doing so they start to chat more and more, get more comfortable with each other but now it is a bit too much time on face book and hubby is starting to ask why so much more time than usual. thought 5. it's not like i am screwing him, we are not doing anything inappropriate and my hubby is getting too controlling. facebook chat now becomes a place to vent to Mr Z and so more personal info is shared which leads to more intimate conversations and now even more time is spent of facebook. hubby is now getting on her nerves, way too much time on FB, sex is dropping and she is getting more snappy. thought 6. it's not like i am screwing him, we are not doing anything inappropriate and my hubby is too controlling and Mr Z understands my issues, he has some of the same problems and has good advise. Another business trip in 2 weeks will be a nice break. facebook chat but now both realize they are going to be at the same place again for business. They decide they are going to meet and have lunch maybe dinner, it will depend on the schedules. thought 6. it will be fun, we can chat a lot more.... it's not like we are doing anything wrong, besides we are both married.... it will be fun. so goes the business trip, more meals together and the last day of the trip is at hand and they decide to have dinner. At dinner, they have a couple of glasses of wine and a really good time. The conversation then leads again to venting and good advise to each other and Mr Z in an expression to comfort her reaches his hand across the table and pats her hand gently and rests it for a moment. thought 7. how nice but what is he doing? this feels nice, is he attracted to me romantically? He is handsome... your married girl the bill comes and Mr Z pays for her bill and asks to go to the hotel bar for some more drinks. He gets up pulls her chair helps her up gently with a nice caressing touch. thought 8.... ok this is a little much.....but i don't want to be rude and he is such a gentlemen.... i don't know... 1 drink ..... ok so the story goes 1 drink turns into a few and up to the hotel room they go. my improvisation i admit could be off. Now she could have rationally made different choices from not giving out info or engaging on facebook to not having meals and such. But each was rationalized away up until the edge that which pushes you over the edge, it has to be rationalized and thus the contradiction. This specific affair lasted 2 years in reality and she too missed Mr Z when she got caught and was forced by her family actually not her husband as he divorced her to have a life reset... i don't know the outcome as i never asked beyond what was offered to me. So there is logic and feelings going on in conflict. Perhaps she did not love her husband as much as she thought because we do fall into "what is expected of us" thus the "i love but not in love" bull sheeeet line i hear and read... who knows what she felt, but that is what i am after. Some affairs while wrong make more logical sense to me when they are really checked out of the marriage vs this "i love my spouse, but i am so devastated that my ap is not calling me" Edited June 10, 2014 by atreides
DasPope Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) I am beginning to believe that my WW's cheating was very atypical for a women. She didn't have any affairs but rather cheated quite promiscuously with several random partners. She formed no bond with any of them beyond " just sex" she didn't see any of these guys in any kind of relationship beyond the "hook up". In fact I am pretty certain she had sex with two different guys on the same day once. Both of whom she had just met ! I've said it before but it occurs to me that she cheated like a man ! I'm not sure how that all fits in on the infidelity scale ... On the one hand she was emotionally faithful, on the other hand she had times where she behaved like a complete slut ! This simply does not compute for me with most of the experiences here. I wonder if it even fits into the category of traditional infidelity if there is such a thing. Edited June 10, 2014 by DasPope
fellini Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 What you have recounted is completely in line with Shirley Glass's concept of boundaries, windows and walls. Slowly putting up walls on the H, and opening windows for the AP. I think you have changed the topic somehow, I thought we were talking about how contradictions and infidelity work. You see in your own description how this works, but this too is merely a BS recounting what someone recounted. These are stereotypes of what happens as people start to engage in boundary crossing. What for us (BS's) looks like a WS slowly but surely crossing boundaries, is also, when you look at it objectively, simply the process that two people who meet each other begin to flirt and hook up. I'm not sure it matters to me if the WS tries to explain her actions in terms of "little by little" I crossed boundaries, when in fact is she was hot for some guy, and little by little she manouvered into a relationship with him. This is what she wanted to do, and this is what she achieves. The H is not really relevant in this script. Well said, but while we understand that there is a contradiction, affairs nonetheless go on and waywards rationalize in some way or another to cross the line. For example and one i know of from someone close to me with some improvisation and trying to show thought conflict. a woman is on a business trip... it's been a long seminar and time to get a late.... in line Mr Z is also waiting for coffee.... she finds him attractive. thought 1. nice looking guy, he dresses nice... something along the lines of "he's trouble but no harm no foul in finding someone attractive" They strike up a conversation, get to know each other and find out they are at this seminar for the same reasons the line is taking too long and they decide to go elsewhere. thought 2. he is really nice and has a lot in common with me, also i am hungry so the hotel restaurant is fine... no big deal.. this is harmless so they eat lunch, have more great conversation, they are relaxed, have a good time. Find more things in common, like family life and such. They decide to exchange contact information thought 3. I am uncomfortable giving my number, i'm married, i will give him my facebook contact. So they exchange FB info. ... Back home, nice to see hubby but he forgot to fix the cabinet, why does he not listen to her? He is always on the xBox or football. The kids are asking for all kinds of things and the house is a mess... she can't seem to relax thought 4. it was so nice on business trip, i got to relax and have a good time. i wonder how mr z is doing so they start to chat more and more, get more comfortable with each other but now it is a bit too much time on face book and hubby is starting to ask why so much more time than usual. thought 5. it's not like i am screwing him, we are not doing anything inappropriate and my hubby is getting too controlling. facebook chat now becomes a place to vent to Mr Z and so more personal info is shared which leads to more intimate conversations and now even more time is spent of facebook. hubby is now getting on her nerves, way too much time on FB, sex is dropping and she is getting more snappy. thought 6. it's not like i am screwing him, we are not doing anything inappropriate and my hubby is too controlling and Mr Z understands my issues, he has some of the same problems and has good advise. Another business trip in 2 weeks will be a nice break. facebook chat but now both realize they are going to be at the same place again for business. They decide they are going to meet and have lunch maybe dinner, it will depend on the schedules. thought 6. it will be fun, we can chat a lot more.... it's not like we are doing anything wrong, besides we are both married.... it will be fun. so goes the business trip, more meals together and the last day of the trip is at hand and they decide to have dinner. At dinner, they have a couple of glasses of wine and a really good time. The conversation then leads again to venting and good advise to each other and Mr Z in an expression to comfort her reaches his hand across the table and pats her hand gently and rests it for a moment. thought 7. how nice but what is he doing? this feels nice, is he attracted to me romantically? He is handsome... your married girl the bill comes and Mr Z pays for her bill and asks to go to the hotel bar for some more drinks. He gets up pulls her chair helps her up gently with a nice caressing touch. thought 8.... ok this is a little much.....but i don't want to be rude and he is such a gentlemen.... i don't know... 1 drink ..... ok so the story goes 1 drink turns into a few and up to the hotel room they go. my improvisation i admit could be off. Now she could have rationally made different choices from not giving out info or engaging on facebook to not having meals and such. But each was rationalized away up until the edge that which pushes you over the edge, it has to be rationalized and thus the contradiction. This specific affair lasted 2 years in reality and she too missed Mr Z when she got caught and was forced by her family actually not her husband as he divorced her to have a life reset... i don't know the outcome as i never asked beyond what was offered to me. So there is logic and feelings going on in conflict. Perhaps she did not love her husband as much as she thought because we do fall into "what is expected of us" thus the "i love but not in love" bull sheeeet line i hear and read... who knows what she felt, but that is what i am after. Some affairs while wrong make more logical sense to me when they are really checked out of the marriage vs this "i love my spouse, but i am so devastated that my ap is not calling me"
Author atreides Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 What you have recounted is completely in line with Shirley Glass's concept of boundaries, windows and walls. Slowly putting up walls on the H, and opening windows for the AP. I think you have changed the topic somehow, I thought we were talking about how contradictions and infidelity work. . We are talking about contradictions but i was trying to convey that things get rationalized, thus the steps to the affair, going into the affair but take what was once rationalized or could perhaps be better explained vs what happens when the WS wants exclusivity for the ap, i am lost as to how that gets rationalized.
Recommended Posts