atreides Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Tonight was a good party, I got to talking to some friends and was part of a conversation about demanding or expecting an affair partner to be faithful in the affair relationship. At first when i heard this, i did not know what to say. It sounded so absurd as I could not get past the contradiction of while being unfaithful, one expects faithfulness from another who is unfaithful themselves as in exclusivity "except for the affair partner's spouse" which was another head shaker for me to hear. Funny thing is, i have read that very thing here on LS. What is the thought process that goes on to make that demand while cheating? It makes me question what one thinks of their spouse while in an affair to then expect an exclusive "cheating partner" as in there is a clear indication to say, "you are exclusive to me but i understand your spouse does not count, but anyone else does." 6
DKT3 Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Its all part of the high sense entitlement that is part of wayward thinking. Its along the same lines of a wayward who is shocked and upset if they find their spouse wasn't all that faithful. I recall seeing a stand act when the guy said his wife sneaks in at 4 am he was awake but in the bed. He isn't upset that she just got home. She gets mad and says my other man would have kicked my @$$ for coming home at 4 am, to which the husband replied shut up and got to bed, I just got home myself. It shocks me who so many people believe, and I mean they REALLY believe they deserve a good spouse or partner when they themselves are crappy ones. A woman who is in love with one guy, but marries another, then has an affair with OM and is shocked that after 22 years of marriage, all of which she was in love with OM, that he husband doesn't love her. How dare he after I've tried soooo hard. Unbelievable. 8
notserene Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 How many times have I heard about an OW (usually an OW - I don't know as much from OM) who breaks down when MM has an OOW? Or is enraged when she discovers that MM has sex with his wife? It takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to be in an affair and think that you are playing by the "rules." 6
waterwoman Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I have often wondered about this. I guess if you know the person you are imvolved with is a cheat by having the A in the first place, you will be a little more insecure to start with. And if a MM or MW have more than one affair relationship the spouse retains an exlusive (though not enviable) position of being the unchanging element, the one that the married person always hangs onto. If you were the OW or OM that might make you feel a bit insecure - the need to not be cheated on in a position that is already unstable is vital.
gettingstronger Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I know it was important to my husband as a "safety" thing- he felt like if she was with more than him and her husband than it would increase his chances of getting an STD- well, thats stupid- if you don't want an STD then don't cheat or wear protection- I love the guy but he sure was an idiot at that time- I thought- so, you think a married woman that would leave her children to fly all over to meet you on business trips is "clean"- SMH- 2
cozycottagelg Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 How many times have I heard about an OW (usually an OW - I don't know as much from OM) who breaks down when MM has an OOW? Or is enraged when she discovers that MM has sex with his wife? It takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to be in an affair and think that you are playing by the "rules." I am not condoning affairs at all. But I think most MM, when putting their feelers out there, say that they are in a sexless marriage. Therefore leading an OW to believe he isn't actually getting any sex other than her. So I can see, in these cases, why it may be a blow to the OW to find out otherwise. 1
cocorico Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Tonight was a good party, I got to talking to some friends and was part of a conversation about demanding or expecting an affair partner to be faithful in the affair relationship. At first when i heard this, i did not know what to say. It sounded so absurd as I could not get past the contradiction of while being unfaithful, one expects faithfulness from another who is unfaithful themselves as in exclusivity "except for the affair partner's spouse" which was another head shaker for me to hear. Funny thing is, i have read that very thing here on LS. What is the thought process that goes on to make that demand while cheating? It makes me question what one thinks of their spouse while in an affair to then expect an exclusive "cheating partner" as in there is a clear indication to say, "you are exclusive to me but i understand your spouse does not count, but anyone else does." Some WS simply transfer their sexual exclusivity from their BS (with whom they may in any event hot have had sex in a good while) to their AP. Serial monogamy - even though technically they may still be legally married to the BS. 3
Trustnoone Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 WW's AP said he was in a sexless marriage, however, WW and I were trying to get pregnant. So she had two people exclusive to her. AP told her how bad his marriage was and they even slept in separate bedrooms! So she is exclusive to him and myself. Lucky me. After I read these stories on this forum I realized I am lucky. So many people have it so much worse than I. Not to say it lessens anyone's pain. Reality is I can't comprehend the thoughts of those that cheat. I love my wife, asked for her hand in marriage, had a beautiful wedding, then infidelity strikes. I would give anything to understand how a WS thinks before and during an affair. How could she think I would be happy that she is with someone else? Fog? Don't believe in it. Marriage difficult? Work on it. Be with someone else? That's easier. Now look at all the problems infidelity caused. I'm on my soapbox again. I just don't understand.
dichotomy Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 (edited) Before me - when (now wife) was fully in her single wild time - she was never exclusively sexual with MM nor he with her. Both had numerous other on going "romantic" relationships - however for the most part as far as I can tell she was completely honest about her multiple relationships with nearly everyone while single (kind of open dating I guess)...that is until she met when she of course when honesty about her relationships was hidden. OM being a married - hid all his relationships to everyone except the women he was banging (I guess best to be honest with them to avoid issues?) but said his wife "kind of new anyway he just needed to be discrete". What's interesting is the MM became very possessive when 1) Early on when she was interested seriously in a buddy of his (I guess too close for him/loose face) and 2) When she finally met me and decided to downshift to just an EA with him (he lost full privileges and that did not sit well with him before or after we married) Frankly I never understood the point in being "faithful" to an OM or OW, I mean your cheating on one - whats one or two or three more? Maybe false feelings of you are not really a unfaithful or dishonest person - if you can at least be honest and faithful (kind of) to at least one person ? But how many WS are 100% honest with their OM/OW anyway - I read about lots of deception there too. Edited June 9, 2014 by dichotomy
Spectre Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Tonight was a good party, I got to talking to some friends and was part of a conversation about demanding or expecting an affair partner to be faithful in the affair relationship. At first when i heard this, i did not know what to say. It sounded so absurd as I could not get past the contradiction of while being unfaithful, one expects faithfulness from another who is unfaithful themselves as in exclusivity "except for the affair partner's spouse" which was another head shaker for me to hear. Funny thing is, i have read that very thing here on LS. What is the thought process that goes on to make that demand while cheating? It makes me question what one thinks of their spouse while in an affair to then expect an exclusive "cheating partner" as in there is a clear indication to say, "you are exclusive to me but i understand your spouse does not count, but anyone else does." From a health perspective it might make sense. Sort of like saying "Okay, since you're cheating with me I know you are trampy, but I don't want any std's to please limit your trampiness to just me. They say sex with their spouse is okay because obviously they have a way of knowing if their own spouse is infected. 1
83cj Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Some WS simply transfer their sexual exclusivity from their BS (with whom they may in any event hot have had sex in a good while) to their AP. Serial monogamy - even though technically they may still be legally married to the BS. I can relate to this. No longer with my BS, but before that and before being in an A, for a very long period of time (couple of years) there had been no sexual intimacy in the M and I had given up on having any, despite making an effort for some time before giving up. Similarly, MM and his BS had been intimate 2x in the prior year and it had been many months since they had been intimate when we met. After MM and I began seeing one another, neither of us was again intimate with our BSs. Partly because we thought intimacy was avoidable and it would be wrong to do that to our BSs (be intimate with BS and AP during an overlapping time period), and partly that we expect faithfulness from one another (something we are willing and able to give). Neither BS took much note of the lack of intimacy, because there already was so little, if any. 2
Furious Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Tonight was a good party, I got to talking to some friends and was part of a conversation about demanding or expecting an affair partner to be faithful in the affair relationship. At first when i heard this, i did not know what to say. It sounded so absurd as I could not get past the contradiction of while being unfaithful, one expects faithfulness from another who is unfaithful themselves as in exclusivity "except for the affair partner's spouse" which was another head shaker for me to hear. Funny thing is, i have read that very thing here on LS. What is the thought process that goes on to make that demand while cheating? It makes me question what one thinks of their spouse while in an affair to then expect an exclusive "cheating partner" as in there is a clear indication to say, "you are exclusive to me but i understand your spouse does not count, but anyone else does." I had hired a PI and discovered more about the married other woman than my husband even knew, and couple that with more information when I contacted the other betrayed spouse. My husband was not the only OM as he believed. The thing with affairs is that no one really knows the fine line between lies and assumptions. It's odd how cheaters , the WS and OW/OM, enter a relationship that is essentially based in deceit are suprised that they've been deceived. 4
Charlie Harper Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 A very important part is forgotten here: (barring serial cheaters, narcisist egos, and sex addicts) The thing that makes you have an A is that your current relationship lacks sex communication and growth. The reason a lot of A start is because of this. If your M is good , has a great relationship and great sex, the possibilities of an A are minimal, we have a saying here that states: If your man has good sex, good food and clean clothes, he won't cheat… yes I know its quite chauvinistic, but its a very old saying. when in an A a lot of people can separate those things because they think-belive-feel the A relationship is better and more fulfilling in areas where the M doesn't work… from the outside it looks as stupid and incomprehensible, but form the inside, its perfectly justifiable, there are millions of people doing it everyday, because if this reason. 3
gettingstronger Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 CH- Affairs stem from a lack of boundaries and an extreme sense of entitlement. Those in an affair tend to rewrite their martial history to alleviate their guilt. In therapy that fact struck my husband square between the eyes. I'll trust a therapists opinion over someone trying to gloss over their own issues any day. 3
Furious Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 If your man has good sex, good food and clean clothes, he won't cheat… yes I know its quite chauvinistic, but its a very old saying. hmmm...never mind... 2
Realist3 Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I don't think it is that difficult to understand at all. No one wants to feel used like a piece of meat, they want to feel special.
Owl Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I don't think it is that difficult to understand at all. No one wants to feel used like a piece of meat, they want to feel special. I don't think you considered the irony of this when you posted it. I get what you mean, don't take me wrong. I'm just a bit amused...because I can't think of a single BS who hasn't felt exactly like that on d-day. 6
Waverly Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I admit it's warped logic, and trust me, I am NOT defending affairs. Insert all of my standard disclaimers here. But: there seems to be some kind of argument here that once someone has an affair, that's it, they might as well sleep with the mailman, the neighbor, the pool boy, whatever, because the line has already been crossed. And I have to just jump in and say...really??? Speaking ONLY for myself here, I cheated because I planned on leaving my marriage and spending my life with my xAP. That was long before I ever even kissed him. Didn't happen, of course, but yes, I would have been devastated if I had found out he was also sleeping with someone else, and vice versa. Cheating sucks; I understand that, and would never say otherwise. And no, I wasn't "entitled" to faithfulness from my xAP. His wife was, and she didn't get it. Neither did my husband. But, in the warped reality that we created, and within the framework of what we were working towards, yes, there was some basis for expecting fidelity within the affair. 1
Owl Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I admit it's warped logic, and trust me, I am NOT defending affairs. Insert all of my standard disclaimers here. But: there seems to be some kind of argument here that once someone has an affair, that's it, they might as well sleep with the mailman, the neighbor, the pool boy, whatever, because the line has already been crossed. And I have to just jump in and say...really??? Speaking ONLY for myself here, I cheated because I planned on leaving my marriage and spending my life with my xAP. That was long before I ever even kissed him. Didn't happen, of course, but yes, I would have been devastated if I had found out he was also sleeping with someone else, and vice versa. Cheating sucks; I understand that, and would never say otherwise. And no, I wasn't "entitled" to faithfulness from my xAP. His wife was, and she didn't get it. Neither did my husband. But, in the warped reality that we created, and within the framework of what we were working towards, yes, there was some basis for expecting fidelity within the affair. Another example of the thinking that supports my view of "affair fog". Duing the affair...rational thinking goes out the window in a whole lot of ways. Post affair...WS's often look back and think..."What in the hell was I thinking?!?!". 3
Charlie Harper Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 CH- Affairs stem from a lack of boundaries and an extreme sense of entitlement. Those in an affair tend to rewrite their martial history to alleviate their guilt. In therapy that fact struck my husband square between the eyes. I'll trust a therapists opinion over someone trying to gloss over their own issues any day. Affairs happen for a lot of reasons, MC can clear up a lot of fog and stuff, but in the end it boiled down to 2 things: 1) Is there still love in the relationship, love to make amends and to make things better. 2) Will there be a will to forgive and regain trust. If you lack any of those components you are just beating a dead horse. My ex W and I went to MC, she would not admit her mistakes, her crazy demands, her need for control 24-7…. she even bailed out… every situation is different, somo A are super foggy, some are destructive and a very low portion end up in a happy relationship…. the very existence of those different outcomes, makes blanket assumptions invalid….
Waverly Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Another example of the thinking that supports my view of "affair fog". Duing the affair...rational thinking goes out the window in a whole lot of ways. Post affair...WS's often look back and think..."What in the hell was I thinking?!?!". Hey, I at least acknowledged how warped it was. Give me some credit here... 2
Owl Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 Hey, I at least acknowledged how warped it was. Give me some credit here... I wasn't knocking you...I was agreeing with you. Simply pointed out that what you experienced fits well with what I've seen demonstrated often in this kind of situation. And...it is to your credit that you can see the 'break' in your functional thinking while you were in the affair. 2
dichotomy Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I admit it's warped logic, and trust me, I am NOT defending affairs. Insert all of my standard disclaimers here. But: there seems to be some kind of argument here that once someone has an affair, that's it, they might as well sleep with the mailman, the neighbor, the pool boy, whatever, because the line has already been crossed. And I have to just jump in and say...really??? Speaking ONLY for myself here, I cheated because I planned on leaving my marriage and spending my life with my xAP. That was long before I ever even kissed him. Didn't happen, of course, but yes, I would have been devastated if I had found out he was also sleeping with someone else, and vice versa. Cheating sucks; I understand that, and would never say otherwise. And no, I wasn't "entitled" to faithfulness from my xAP. His wife was, and she didn't get it. Neither did my husband. But, in the warped reality that we created, and within the framework of what we were working towards, yes, there was some basis for expecting fidelity within the affair. Then this makes sense. People cheat for many reasons - if yours was an exit type intent of affair (specifically with AP) makes sense your on target for one person. However if we look at the gamete of other affair reasons - including boredom, sexless marriage, or temporary down period in marriage, self esteem/depression/mental health, addiction, opportunistic/sex hound, character disorder/flaw, what have you etc, etc... then we see the reasons for being exclusive and true to one AP - might be less logical.
WasOtherWoman Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 The reason a lot of A start is because of this. If your M is good , has a great relationship and great sex, the possibilities of an A are minimal, we have a saying here that states: If your man has good sex, good food and clean clothes, he won't cheat… yes I know its quite chauvinistic, but its a very old saying. Yep, my husband likes to say to me "Men need food, sex and sleep. Anything more than that, you are overthinking us." 2
WasOtherWoman Posted June 9, 2014 Posted June 9, 2014 I can honestly say that I have never, not during our affair, or our marriage had conversation one with my affair partner/husband about his physical relationship with his wife (I assumed they were having sex, they were married). I know it seems to be often the case around here, but I think that is a really odd thing to discuss. Why would someone not assume their affair partner was intimate with their spouse? Nor did he and I have any discussion regarding either one of us having other physical relationships (I wasn't) while we were in our affair.
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