Glinda.Good Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Why would run like the wind when people heap on blame? The one reason why I'd avoid women similar to M30USA is because they haven't reached a healthy place yet. Definitely. A person in such an unhealthy place is one to be avoided. I do wish them well in reaching better ground, but they would be toxic and probably abusive in any kind of a relationship. Being trapped in resentment and rumination limbo is a horrible place to find yourself. This is unhealthy for M30USA. Assigning blame is not the same as detaching from a poor relationship and moving on. I agree. But staying trapped is a choice. With that said there are women out there who are horrible people to be avoided. You don't need her side of the story, participate the drama between two former spouses, and yes she may have in fact committed these acts. The truth residing between two different stories is generally true. It isn't true when an individual is deeply troubled and dishes out violence, abuse, mistreatment, you name it. Even women are sometimes capable of these acts and you certainly don't need to place yourself in her shoes out of a misguided sense of sisterhood. You cannot reasonably understand what occurred. All we may offer from our positions is to accurately share how we would react in similar positions, or what helped us move on after a poor relationship. I assure you, my position has nothing to do with the gender of the people involved. Women are just as prone to this blame heaping as men are. It is a character and emotional health thing, not a gender thing. I don't care what kind of abusive relationship you are in, if you are an adult, the time has to come when you own your own part of it all. If you chose to stay, to have children, to fight, to add your own drama, you DO have a partnership in creating the sickness. I believe it is extremely rare for a consensual relationship to be 100% victim / abuser. Own your part and work on yourself, or stay stuck, blaming the other - and in this case, the other's entire gender. It's a choice. Bottom line is: anybody, man or woman, who has the point of view expressed in this OP is a person that needs to be avoided by those seeking relationships. Run!
Woggle Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 The OP was in a marriage he was physically abused. Not that that makes his views right but that kind of thing takes it's toll on a person and abused men especially have little to no place to turn and some people actually laugh at them. He is not in a healthy place right now. I don't like the idea training your mate either way. People aren't dogs. 1
Glinda.Good Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Screening is fine. That is part of why we get to know people before making commitments to them. 1
Author M30USA Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 Screening is fine. That is part of why we get to know people before making commitments to them. Maybe that's what I meant: screening. As in, you won't let me rest while I'm sick? Next please.
Got it Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 The OP was in a marriage he was physically abused. Not that that makes his views right but that kind of thing takes it's toll on a person and abused men especially have little to no place to turn and some people actually laugh at them. He is not in a healthy place right now. I don't like the idea training your mate either way. People aren't dogs. I actually don't see it is a problem. We "train" people all the time on how to treat us by the boundaries and expectations/consequences we put down. We tell people how/what we will accept and what is a "deal breaker" so we do it all the time. I see it as a very healthy attitude to want to put down boundaries and making sure that one is their own best advocate. Male or female we should be very cognizant on how others are treating us and (re)evaluating whether or not it is acceptable to us. I think with people like the OP, when one is in a relationship that is over on one end of the spectrum they cope by swinging the pendulum to the other side. Eventually things should settle down into the middle with therapy and self healing. 2
xxoo Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Maybe that's what I meant: screening. As in, you won't let me rest while I'm sick? Next please. Why didn't you screen that way when dating your wife? Figure out the reasons you committed when you should not have. What made you want her so much you ignored these issues? If you can figure that out, you can let go of your fears and distrust of women, because you'll trust yourself. 6
loveunderstands Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Why do women in a relationship, find that she is overwhelmed or complains about housework, rearing of children. They are pretty much done with that, no more. Career first, who is suppose take care of the children? The Grandmother? The role for men is not easy now a days, is not tough just on women. Can we really change this, for both? I agree women have to be trained… and men re-trained. Why do women say? Let’s hold positions that are more traditionally held by men. Why do women want to be like men? Why does the role of men cannot change but the woman’s needs a complete change? Do they lack the self-image of a good woman and her power in her realm of uniqueness, which can influence others? Housework, for the dark ages, right? Now man has to pay for a maid. He is the financially responsible. I agree with you women do have to be re-trained. I've started to date lately, to my surprise my date a woman, told me that “holding hands was pushing for a physical relationship!!! After two to three positive contacts with my date, and with me laying down things from the get go, for marriage. Nevertheless, on the last third contact, on a whole day date, and with her putting herself very close to me, looking into my eyes, giving me compliments and all. Yet at the end of the night, when I held the hands of my date. My date ultimately went off, saying that I was pushing the physical relationship. What? I’ve never been told this before!!! Is holding the hands of your date when all lights are green, with a good connection, attraction between us, “is this pushing the pushing the physical relationship”? Or the romantic relationship? Men be more careful with many of the women out there, not just some.
pteromom Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 I'm going to have a "screening process". Just like how women year guys early on, I'm going to do the same. Sounds reasonable. Here is what I'm going to test for: 1) When I take a nap, will she flip out and start getting on my case about housework? 2) If I want to visit a friend or see my family, will she try to sabotage it or spend the next 3 days "getting back" at me? 3) When I'm sick or at my lowest, how she acts THEN is really how she thinks about me. If a woman gives you the "stop being a baby" crap, it's time to cut your losses. 4) If a woman so much as slaps, pushes, or throws anything at me during a relationship (even if joking), I'm gone. See ya later. I've been assaulted pretty badly and I have ZERO tolerance now. 5) Is she addicted to drama? Will I be allowed to just sit on a damn couch in the evening and read a damn book if I so choose? Or will there be constant strife that spills over and keeps the house from being peaceful? You must have dated some really insecure and immature women, because I would easily fly through your screening process, as would most of my friends. Women are naturally skilled at this and they do this on us without us even realizing. No, women AREN'T naturally skilled at this. That's why so many women end up with controlling, loser, selfish, or abusive men.
GorillaTheater Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 I actually don't see it is a problem. We "train" people all the time on how to treat us by the boundaries and expectations/consequences we put down. We tell people how/what we will accept and what is a "deal breaker" so we do it all the time. I see it as a very healthy attitude to want to put down boundaries and making sure that one is their own best advocate. Male or female we should be very cognizant on how others are treating us and (re)evaluating whether or not it is acceptable to us. I think with people like the OP, when one is in a relationship that is over on one end of the spectrum they cope by swinging the pendulum to the other side. Eventually things should settle down into the middle with therapy and self healing. I agree. "Train" is something of a loaded word, of course, but I think that essentially the same thing is meant by the common expression that "we teach people how to treat us", knowingly or unknowingly. I'm not sure anyone could credibly dispute that statement. 1
pteromom Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 When my friends and I joke about "training" our husbands (and yes, I've been involved in conversations like that), it is light-hearted silliness about griping about putting socks in the hamper and taking dishes back to the sink. It's not some nefarious female conspiracy to whip our men and keep them compliant and quiet in the corner until we need something from the top shelf. You have been quite scarred by what your ex put you through. But I PROMISE you that most women aren't like her. Most of us just want a happy life with a nice man who treats us well, and who appreciates us treating him well. A best friend, partner, and lover who loves us and accepts us for who we are. That's it. No anti-men conspiracy. 3
xxoo Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 When my friends and I joke about "training" our husbands (and yes, I've been involved in conversations like that), it is light-hearted silliness about griping about putting socks in the hamper and taking dishes back to the sink. It's not some nefarious female conspiracy to whip our men and keep them compliant and quiet in the corner until we need something from the top shelf. Yes, I do this, too. Also, I might joke about how my H, my kids, and even my dog have me trained. Can't take everything you overhear literally, esp when it is lighthearted chatting!
Michelle ma Belle Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 When my friends and I joke about "training" our husbands (and yes, I've been involved in conversations like that), it is light-hearted silliness about griping about putting socks in the hamper and taking dishes back to the sink. It's not some nefarious female conspiracy to whip our men and keep them compliant and quiet in the corner until we need something from the top shelf. You have been quite scarred by what your ex put you through. But I PROMISE you that most women aren't like her. Most of us just want a happy life with a nice man who treats us well, and who appreciates us treating him well. A best friend, partner, and lover who loves us and accepts us for who we are. That's it. No anti-men conspiracy. AMEN! Very well articulated and I couldn't have agreed more
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