Do I tell him it bothers me -- at bar with friend chatting up female bartender?

July 9, 2014

Thanks so much Leigh 87! Much appreciated too. I agree completely -- so immature. I will tell him just to tell me how he feels instead of playing hurtful games.

I will not his doormat thus time. I'm trying to be strong.

I will ignore his question n when I see him F2F will tell him to grow up....in do many words.

Any other advice would be appreciated on how to not be a door mat.

Thanks all!!

NUMEBR ONE thing I learnt about how NOT to be a doormat:

Unless you tell them directly that their behaviour is UNACCEPTABLE and you will not tolerate it and THEN LEAVE if they don't step it up, you are a DOORMAT.

It is simple; do not tolerate this behaviour, tell him you will have no choice but to leave the relationship if he cannot get a grip and then LEAVE; follow through 100% if he doesn't beg you for another chance.

Sticking around any longer when he is not even acknowledging his poor form, let alone APOLOGISING for it and saying he will make changes for the sake of this relationship, is BEING A DOORMAT.

I would know I was the seasoned doormat until not so long ago......

July 9, 2014

I've changed my mind. I'm walking on this guy. I deserve so much better. Good bye and good luck to him. Makes me so sad. So very sad it didn't work out. :**(((

July 9, 2014

Omg, thanks so much Zahara. I'm so upset. I don't want to tip toe around him. But I don't know how not to. If not giving in to him and ignoring his question is one way in this situation then I will. I guess I'm afraid of losing him. But am realizing he's not really worth saving. Total nut job. I suspect I will have more of this controlling passive aggressive games from him and more heartache if I stay. His exw told him he was controlling in their marriage. He has no awareness or clue how he is. Shame.

Lose what? Go back and read your post when you asked if yours is a loving relationship. It isn't. You have nothing to lose except for the little things he does for you. You even said he says he loves you with no emotion. What are you losing? Don't confuse that with you fearful of being alone. Most times we settle for little to nothing because of that one fear.

Ignore him. He's looking for a reaction. If you've read on passive aggresive traits, you'll realize that this is a tactic stemming from projection and control. I've dealt with this type.

July 9, 2014

NUMEBR ONE thing I learnt about how NOT to be a doormat:

Unless you tell them directly that their behaviour is UNACCEPTABLE and you will not tolerate it and THEN LEAVE if they don't step it up, you are a DOORMAT.

It is simple; do not tolerate this behaviour, tell him you will have no choice but to leave the relationship if he cannot get a grip and then LEAVE; follow through 100% if he doesn't beg you for another chance.

Sticking around any longer when he is not even acknowledging his poor form, let alone APOLOGISING for it and saying he will make changes for the sake of this relationship, is BEING A DOORMAT.

I would know I was the seasoned doormat until not so long ago......

Great advice!! Thanks sooo much!!! Before I end it I will tell him exactly what you suggest saying. Awesome!

Yes, if he doesn't realize his ignorant behaviour, apologize or beg me, then I made the right choice to end it.

July 9, 2014

Lose what? Go back and read your post when you asked if yours is a loving relationship. It isn't. You have nothing to lose except for the little things he does for you. You even said he says he loves you with no emotion. What are you losing? Don't confuse that with you fearful of being alone. Most times we settle for little to nothing because of that one fear.

Ignore him. He's looking for a reaction. If you've read on passive aggresive traits, you'll realize that this is a tactic stemming from projection and control. I've dealt with this type.

OK, I will read up on it. Don't know if I should ignore or tell him to quit it or just end things. I can't take his ****. Yes, I have nothing to lose.

July 9, 2014

OK, I will read up on it. Don't know if I should ignore or tell him to quit it or just end things. I can't take his ****. Yes, I have nothing to lose.

Regardless of whether you should answer his question. The bigger picture is the shape of your relationship. You listed a number of things that indicated you not being fulfilled in this relationship. That should be your measuring stick as to whether you want to stay or leave. Telling him to quit this crap doesn't change the fact that everything else still remains. Talk to him about your needs and wants in the relationship, that should be your conversation with him.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Zahara

July 9, 2014

Omg.

Congratulations! You are the 1 in 100 OR EVEN LESS women that come on here and actually LISTEN to our advice:D

I am very impressed! I admit, I wasn't strong enough to leave my ex even though he was a cheating douche who said some awful things to me! I would NOT listen to peoples advice here. Not surprisingly, I was back after the break up and failed bouts of no contact saying: YOU WERE ALL RIGHT:o

Seriously, NOT many women actually listen to reasonable, objective advice.

Women are VERY apt at seeing what they want to see, hearing what they want to hear and trying ANYTHING to desperately stay in relationships that are no good for them.

You are a rare exception!

And look, you don't have to go all " omg you are a jerk sod off" to him. If I were in your position I would simply say " hey, look I don't appreciate your behaviour when I was away. I did nothing wrong, I have a job and I had to go on a conference where a man happened to be. It was highly immature of you to go cold on me with your texts and change from your usual loving self, when I did NOTHING wrong"

" I don't think this will work out between us because instead of coming to me when you have a problem and calmly talking it through, you choose to not resolve issues and then take your distaste out on me"

" I do not think we are as good of a match as I thought, chemistry and feelings I may feel towards you are not enough to sustain a relationship when we are not compatible"

" I wish you well and it saddens me to have to do this as I did really like you. I am going to block your contact on social media and on my phone because I would like to move on and I cannot do that if we remain in contact"

You can be nice about it, you don't have to stoop to his level and be angry and unpleasant.

July 9, 2014

Thank you!! It is extremely hard to do and say what you know you should out of self love and self respect. When yes, there is great chemistry and feelings on my part. I am extremely sad it had to end. I know he doesn't care enough to beg for me back. That's the sad part. He can take me or leave me. He has disrespected me before a couple weeks ago with the bartender thing. He also joked to his male friends in front of me, "sitting at the bar does wonders for my h*#d-on"...meaning looking n talking to the female bartenders turns him on. I was disgusted n told him he hurt me w his disrespectful comment. He acknowledged it was bad n apologized. I told him I expect him to be respectful of me. So he knows, yet he continues by asking that question tonight. Sooo, I ignore him n walk. He knows he did wrong n if I even say anything to try to explain, it won't matter, cause I'd be a door mat. He will continue to disrespect me. No f'n thanks mofo.

July 9, 2014

Thank you!! It is extremely hard to do and say what you know you should out of self love and self respect. When yes, there is great chemistry and feelings on my part. I am extremely sad it had to end. I know he doesn't care enough to beg for me back. That's the sad part. He can take me or leave me. He has disrespected me before a couple weeks ago with the bartender thing. He also joked to his male friends in front of me, "sitting at the bar does wonders for my h*#d-on"...meaning looking n talking to the female bartenders turns him on. I was disgusted n told him he hurt me w his disrespectful comment. He acknowledged it was bad n apologized. I told him I expect him to be respectful of me. So he knows, yet he continues by asking that question tonight. Sooo, I ignore him n walk. He knows he did wrong n if I even say anything to try to explain, it won't matter, cause I'd be a door mat. He will continue to disrespect me. No f'n thanks mofo.

Well done!

If he could take or leave you then you know he wasn't he right one for you.

I had a misunderstanding with my bf a few times and he begged and pleaded to work things out.

Plus his hard on comment alone that was definitely directed at OTHER women, should have been a deal breaker alone! What a pig. He is not relationship material!

Now, as much as you feel for him, please don't let him sweet talk you back unless he instigates REAL change.

July 9, 2014

Thanks, I'll try. But believe me, he won't sweet talk me at all. He'll hold his head high and be gone. So sad.

On another note I think Zahara n Firmness r right...because he's passive aggressively controlling I noticed an immediate change in him and our 'relationship ' a couple months back. First 3 months he was attentive, affectionate, wanted to spend lots time together. Would come get me for coffee n lunches at work. But then I got busy at work and had to decline lunch/coffee w him. The third time it happened he was clearly upset but never told me he was n i didn't call him on it cause didnt think it was a big deal. Then the fourth time it happened he made weird comment, "it's ok, I know where I stand w u" I took it as him upset that I don't make time for him. N he's on the bottom of my list. I asked him what he meant but would not admit that was it. So I didn't push the issue. But from that day forth he's rarely asked me to lunch/coffee, n now never cause he goes to his fav bar w his buddy instead. He also became more secretive. So I think he was upset back then and passively decided to treat me the 'same', the way he saw it. "If she had no time for me then I don't for her n will do my own thing, even chat it up n b extra friendly w my bartender. She's there for me not my gf. I'll show her." he did it without even giving me a chance to talk thru his issue. So unfair.

Edited July 9, 2014 by beyondcrushed

July 9, 2014

Omg Zahara! I just read a bunch on passive aggressiveness and control. Lol, I couldn't stop reading...hence I'm up soooo late! anyway, my bf (or exbf) is this type of person to a 'T'!!!! He is making it utterly impossible for me to be with him because of his behaviour. And he'll never change. It's ingrained in him I think since a young child when he was escaping physical abuse at his father's hand. Only way he had any power n control. Such an f'n shame....

July 9, 2014

Your poor thing, what a jerk to have had to deal with. Maybe he just doesn't realise how unhealthy and hurtful his actions are when he is supposedly in a mature, adult relationship?

Remember: you are not like a lot of women who sit there and take it because you are desperate to keep a guy because you love him.

You know very well that you can find a more suitable partner who doesn't treat you like this.

I hope you stick around and update us on your new dates once you move on from this clown.

Sorry this is such a hurtful time for you, it sucks to break up someone you have feelings for:(

July 9, 2014

It is so painful. Even now I am second guessing myself -- am I overreacting?; can we talk it out?

I hate this.

July 9, 2014

It is so painful. Even now I am second guessing myself -- am I overreacting?; can we talk it out?

What do you want to do?

Even if the answer is have him change, while not realistic, think about how you would make that happen.

At a minimum, you have to address the nasty comment about you showing the sexy pick to your co-worker because that was uncalled for but I suspect it was born of his insecurities.

July 9, 2014

What I want us a healthy loving relationship with him. I wish he was different. I wish he wasn't passive aggressive and making me upset.

It will be virtually impossible to get him to change unless he realizes and acknowledges his behaviour, and is consciencly working on fixing it through therapy or otherwise. And, although he's been making some efforts to make our relationship better (after I talked to him about how his actions re: bartender upset me and what u need from him. He's tried to fulfill my needs, except recently w his disrespectful comment about sexy pic), I don't think he will really make any significant sustained effort or change. Since he's PA, he is already thinking I'm controlling him n is lashing out passively with his recent comment. And if i try to make him aware he's PA, he'll take it as an attack and will shut down. So yes, it will be an impossibility. Idk. Do I go to all the trouble, heartache, upset, frustration, anxiousness for it to fail in the end anyway?? I think I should walk away. Not sure it's worth trying to get him to see his behavior isn't working for him.

Yes, I will be dealing with that comment. I'm ignoring him. If he approaches me about it, I will then deal w it.

July 9, 2014

It is so painful. Even now I am second guessing myself -- am I overreacting?; can we talk it out?

I hate this.

Break-ups are painful. There is no way around it. You can choose to talk to him about how unfulfilled you are in the relationship and his passive aggresive behavior but I doubt it there will be any change since it sounds like he really isn't very invested in you and the relationship.

You're always going to doubt because it's difficult to face your truth. Deep down inside you know you deserve better.

July 9, 2014

Ugh, exactly, so hard to face the truth. But ur right, that's why I doubt and do deserve better. H-A-T-E this!!!!

So afraid of not finding someone with the qualities I like in him, but w/o PA behavior. Is there better out there?? Ugh!!!

Edited July 9, 2014 by beyondcrushed

July 9, 2014

1. But he never tells me he lives me or how much I mean to him.

2. He never tells me how beautiful I am.

3. He never just looks at me.

4. He'll only say he loves me when I tell him I love him. And he says it with zero emotion...just empty words. like he feels obligated to tell me. Lol. So pathetic.

5. And lately he's been going dutch treat with me. And making me pay half of our 'trips' n activities together ie; weekend getaway.

6. And a few weeks ago we talked about moving in together next spring then a few days ago he's talking about living in his home on his own.

7. He will barely text me or see me during the day, and rarely suggests coffee or lunch (we work together).

8. If I compare him to my exh n exbf, my exes were way more in love n crazy for me than this guy. Somehow I feel like I'm just a friend he can have fun with benefits. I asked him what he sees us as. He said dating and having fun.

What qualities would that be if even the basics you aren't getting from this guy? And you said you're afraid you won't find a better guy out there -- well you were with men that absolutely adored you as you mentioned in bold. Doesn't that indicate anything to you?

Is there better out there? Does that mean being with him, having to be hurt and invalidated all the time is better than being on your own, thriving and living with emotional freedom, open to the possibilities of being with someone you deserve. And even if that doesn't happen, being alone has to be better than this turmoil.

July 9, 2014

Dating a passive aggressive man is crazy making. Do yourself a favor & run.

Edited July 9, 2014 by imfine

July 9, 2014

Thanks for keeping it real. Hahaha. So true.

The only few things he had that I want from another man is his attractiveness, his sense of adventure, his prowess in the bedroom. I guess it's not impossible to find that again and more:))

July 9, 2014

Dating a passive aggressive man is crazy making. Do yourself a favor & run.

So f'n crazy making, wow!

July 9, 2014

I want from another man is his attractiveness, his sense of adventure, his prowess in the bedroom.

There has to be more in a person than surface type qualities as in what you're holding on to in order for a relationship to function and grow.

July 10, 2014

Yes, of course. I do want more. Those were the list of what he had that I want in another man plus the more.

July 16, 2014

Wow.....so I had hard time with the idea of letting go so I didn't. I sent him a text later on in day saying his question was inappropriate and would like to talk about it. He said he wanted me to feel what its like getting accused of cheating. He said he wanted me to feel awful like he did when I got upset and accused him of bartender. I said we dealt with that a while ago and that I don't understand why he's bringing it up again this way. He said he was mostly joking. When I got back from the convention, I told him I still think his question was inappropriate and expect an apology. He said he wouldn't give me one. I said fine. He then basically said he wanted to teach me a lesson so I wouldn't attack him again (basically so I stifle my feelings and not get upset with him again). He basically lied and played it all down. I said, so you purposely chose to hurt me? He said yes. But played it down. Basically, he's turned everything around so its about him (me attacking him and making him upset), not about my feelings over his actions with the bar and the bartender, and being suspicious and amiguous and disrespectful. Right then, I knew I wasn't gonna ever get anywhere with this guy. And he is a liar and manipulator. I shut down. Just let him ramble and smiled/knodded. When he was done, I knew i had to end this.

But I just couldn't. Last Friday was his best friend's last day at our work (who he goes to the bar with). So now, Monday and today, of course my bf is making time for me -- coffee, lunches -- both days. Can't help but feel like his second choice. ****. But things have been going great. He's attentive. Fixed my brakes. Once again is talking about a future together. Warm, affectionate. The time together has been wonderful. For the first time he's come super close to expressing his love for me -- told me he feels exactly for me as the words in the song, "Is it Love" by Whitney Houston remade by Sam Smith. Then he played it for me. It made me cry. What I was waiting for for 4 ****ing months, or actually the whole time I've known him. And tonight was another great night.....until.....

He hopped in the shower and he left his cell unlocked. I thought about looking at his Blackberry messenger messages between him and the bartender. ( note: when I accused him of sleeping with her and he offered to show me their msgs between them, he took back his offer when I took him up on it. Said they were none of my business. So of course it makes me more suspicious.) So, I do it. I quickly open his conversation with her and read the msgs. Wow. He has erased historical messages and only had on there messages going back to Wednesday. LOL. I knew he'd erase them the day he denied me access to them. Anyway, their messages show that they clearly have a "special" friendship. Cozy happy giddy messages. Nothing like how we message. So this past weekend we go on a camping trip together with our kids. I guess she went on a motorcycle ride. He asks her, "How was your ride pumpkin?" WTF?!!! Then, I guess he hasn't seen her for a while (because he was camping and wasn't at bar Monday and today ) and she asks him, "Do you miss me?" He replies, "Terribly". WTF?! Then he confirms plans he's made with her to go on a motorcycle trip out of town for a few days (conveniently the week I'm gone overseas). She says yes but has to check with her husband. She then asks him, "Will my bff be there????" She's referring to me. He replies, "No she won't, LMAO". WTF?!! So now I'm a joke to him and to her. He must of told her how I suspect something and now he makes me a joke. So disrespectful to me and what we have.

I gather all my belongings and confront him when he walks out of shower. He's caught off guard and of course says he doesn't know what I'm talking about. Nothing is going on. That's just the kind of relationship they have. That's how they talk. I said, does her husband know that's how you two talk?? I said I can't believe this. I thought you loved me and I believed your bs. And I fell for it....AGAIN! He was adamant nothing is going on. I started looking through his other texts then he said stop and give back his phone. I wouldn't and tried wrestled it from me. He said he'd hit me if I didn't and he hit my face. I gave back the phone. Then he said its over and he wants me to know its over because of me. LMFAO!!! It's over because of you a-hole. I said you can have your bartender. I wouldn't leave his house and he called the cops on me so I left.

But before I left we talked and he said he doesn't trust himself to never hurt me again. That I bring out his temper and he doesn't want me near him ever again for fear he'll lose his temper again. Nice. He made some bs lie about how he wanted me to come on the motorcycle trip but no dates worked. He said he wants to have friends who ride and its hard to find. He says he wouldn't spend all his time with me if he wants the bartender. He said he was thinking of all the ways to show how much he loved me i.e. fix my brakes. He didn't want the bartender. IDK. Did I overreact? It's too late anyway. He's completely through with me. I'm getting sad now.

Side note: he said when my daughter splashed him relentlessly at the beach camping, and she didn't listen when he said stop, he told me today that next time she does that he'll push and hold her under water to teach her lesson. WTF?! I said, "no you won't"

I think i may have dodged a bullet...again.

Readers, do you think something was going on with bartender? Or was I overreacting?

Why would he jeopardize what we have for her?

Did he value me and what we had?

Off topic question: When someone says they'll be home "shortly", how long is that generally to mean -- 10 minutes or 1 hour?

Edited July 16, 2014 by beyondcrushed

July 16, 2014

Side note: he said when my daughter splashed him relentlessly at the beach camping, and she didn't listen when he said stop, he told me today that next time she does that he'll push and hold her under water to teach her lesson. WTF?! I said, "no you won't"

This is enough for you to walk away and never look back. Everything else becomes irrelevant.

Readers, do you think something was going on with bartender? Or was I overreacting?

Yes, something is going on with the bartender. He's at some level emotionally cheating on you.

Why would he jeopardize what we have for her?

Why do you think? You know the answer.

Did he value me and what we had?

Not enough to do right by you and treat you with respect and loyalty.

Off topic question: When someone says they'll be home "shortly", how long is that generally to mean -- 10 minutes or 1 hour?

10 minutes or an hour sounds about right. It's a petty question. But it's magnified in your case because you don't trust him.

1) He gives you the silent treatment

2) He gaslights you

3) He hit you

4) He called the cops on you

5) He plans trips with another woman

6) He lies to you

7) He threatens the wellbeing of your daughter. (your number 1 reason to GTFO)

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Do I tell him it bothers me -- at bar with friend chatting up female bartender?

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