18yrs is enough

[lollipopspot]

It's hateful and selfish and it's HER job to fix it.

 

Nope. It's THEIR job to fix it. That's why some people recommended counseling. It's not one thing in isolation that is wrong, generally.

 

When my ex husband stopped having sex with me people didn't tell me, a woman, to be nicer to him so he would want to have sex with me. Why is that? Why is there a double standard when it comes to sex? Women - if you don't want to have sex with someone you shouldn't be married to them. If you at some point after marriage decide that you don't want to have sex with them or be intimate in any way then YOU need to file for divorce and stop expecting the men to carry you and coddle you and do your dirty work once you're done with the relationship.

 

I assume it's because (and there seems to be some science behind it), women and men tend to have different kinds of triggers for feeling sexual. "Being nice" might indeed cause a woman to feel more sexual than it might a man. Same as, a woman might be counseled to get some lingerie or do some sexy things for her man that a man would not be counseled to do. There's a reason why there isn't a "Victor's Secret."

 

This marriage is clearly a co-creation. From the beginning they weren't having regular sex. And yet they both chose to have a child. If there's a way to fix this, it's not on one party to fix, they have to do it together because they have a longstanding pattern of communication and expectations that needs to be changed.

[oldshirt]

 

I guess the question is this: It's probably waayyyyy not cool to do it before our anniversary. How long after should I wait?

 

 

 

Having her served on your actual anniversary is probably pretty tacky. But other than that, do you think it will actually matter one way or another?

 

 

If she is going to have a beef with getting divorce papers handed to her, she's going to have a beef if it's on a Monday because Mondays suck and she's gonna have a beef if it's a Friday because it will be right before the weekend and she'll have a beef if it's a Wednesday because she'll already be busy with other things blah blah blah.

 

 

Point being there is no perfect day and there will always be some occasion going on that it will disrupt.

 

 

On the other hand keep in mind that if she is as checked out as you are, it probably won't bother that much regardless of the day either.

 

 

You indicated she's a dud in the sack and you've indicated she isn't exactly an example of career ambition but you haven't said anything about her being dumb. She surely knows that you have been chronically unhappy and dissatisfied with the marriage and she also likely knows that your career success and fitness success and general satisfaction in other areas of your life will likely put her in a position of being left behind. On some level she's probably given divorce some serious consideration herself or has wondered why you haven't already.

 

 

I doubt if this is going to come as any shock.

[AmyBamy]

Nope. It's THEIR job to fix it. That's why some people recommended counseling. It's not one thing in isolation that is wrong, generally.

 

 

 

I assume it's because (and there seems to be some science behind it), women and men tend to have different kinds of triggers for feeling sexual. "Being nice" might indeed cause a woman to feel more sexual than it might a man. Same as, a woman might be counseled to get some lingerie or do some sexy things for her man that a man would not be counseled to do. There's a reason why there isn't a "Victor's Secret."

 

This marriage is clearly a co-creation. From the beginning they weren't having regular sex. And yet they both chose to have a child. If there's a way to fix this, it's not on one party to fix, they have to do it together because they have a longstanding pattern of communication and expectations that needs to be changed.

 

I don't agree that it's their job to fix it. Each person in the relationship needs to be able to pull their own weight. If he has to do it for her then it's not a relationship it's a codependency. I can understand if he wanted to give her time to sort it out but 18 years is a long time. And they might have gotten pregnant accidentally during that one time a year that they were having sex, who knows?

 

If women want to be treated as equals then we have to be independent and pull our own weight. Men go and fix things all the time without our help or without us holding their hand. Why can't and why shouldn't we be able to do the same thing? Why do we women get more leeway on this? Because we are known as the weaker sex and that's insulting. We are not weaker but if we keep acting like it no wonder we keep getting treated like it. She needs to handle her **** and if she can't provide her half of the relationship then why should he have to do the dirty work of filing for divorce? That always irritates me because it appears that she is staying for the security and that's not independent and it's not admirable. Again it's why we are still considered the weaker sex.

[AmyBamy]

Having her served on your actual anniversary is probably pretty tacky. But other than that, do you think it will actually matter one way or another?

 

 

If she is going to have a beef with getting divorce papers handed to her, she's going to have a beef if it's on a Monday because Mondays suck and she's gonna have a beef if it's a Friday because it will be right before the weekend and she'll have a beef if it's a Wednesday because she'll already be busy with other things blah blah blah.

 

 

Point being there is no perfect day and there will always be some occasion going on that it will disrupt.

 

 

On the other hand keep in mind that if she is as checked out as you are, it probably won't bother that much regardless of the day either.

 

 

You indicated she's a dud in the sack and you've indicated she isn't exactly an example of career ambition but you haven't said anything about her being dumb. She surely knows that you have been chronically unhappy and dissatisfied with the marriage and she also likely knows that your career success and fitness success and general satisfaction in other areas of your life will likely put her in a position of being left behind. On some level she's probably given divorce some serious consideration herself or has wondered why you haven't already.

 

 

I doubt if this is going to come as any shock.

 

I'm going to put my bet in that she will not only be shocked, but righteously angry. That she will exclaim that this is "all about sex" and that "sex isn't that important". I am also going to bet that many other women will stand behind her and vindicate her and her anger. I will also bet that she will expect to continue living at the same standard, especially if she has physical custody of the child/ren. I'm putting $5 on it now.

 

I have seen this situation play out so many times that it's so predictable. I hope for his sake that it doesn't go this way, but I'm betting it will.

[oldshirt]

Nope. It's THEIR job to fix it. That's why some people recommended counseling. It's not one thing in isolation that is wrong, generally.

 

 

 

I assume it's because (and there seems to be some science behind it), women and men tend to have different kinds of triggers for feeling sexual. "Being nice" might indeed cause a woman to feel more sexual than it might a man. Same as, a woman might be counseled to get some lingerie or do some sexy things for her man that a man would not be counseled to do. There's a reason why there isn't a "Victor's Secret."

 

This marriage is clearly a co-creation. From the beginning they weren't having regular sex. And yet they both chose to have a child. If there's a way to fix this, it's not on one party to fix, they have to do it together because they have a longstanding pattern of communication and expectations that needs to be changed.

 

 

 

Actually I would encourage counseling for them as well.

 

 

Counseling can serve a variety of purposes. There is the classic attempt to "save the marriage" of course but even if things are past that (which sounds like the case in this instance) counseling can help people come to terms with what is taking place and help them mitigate some of the fallout and help avoid some of the pain and conflict that often ensues and can also help them negotiate the divorce and cause the least impact and disruption to the children.

[lollipopspot]

If women want to be treated as equals then we have to be independent and pull our own weight. Men go and fix things all the time without our help or without us holding their hand. Why can't and why shouldn't we be able to do the same thing? Why do we women get more leeway on this? Because we are known as the weaker sex and that's insulting. We are not weaker but if we keep acting like it no wonder we keep getting treated like it. She needs to handle her **** and if she can't provide her half of the relationship then why should he have to do the dirty work of filing for divorce? That always irritates me because it appears that she is staying for the security and that's not independent and it's not admirable. Again it's why we are still considered the weaker sex.

 

A lot of assumptions in here. We don't know why she's staying. She might be happy. If he hasn't made it an issue for 18 years, why would she think there's a problem?

 

This seems to be more a relationship problem than a gender problem per se. Not sure why you're trying to turn it into one so strongly. An 18 year marriage is a co-creation. People need to be able to communicate their needs and wants effectively. Not mind reading about what the other person wants, if things have just been rolling along.

[oldshirt]

I'm going to put my bet in that she will not only be shocked, but righteously angry. That she will exclaim that this is "all about sex" and that "sex isn't that important". I am also going to bet that many other women will stand behind her and vindicate her and her anger. I will also bet that she will expect to continue living at the same standard, especially if she has physical custody of the child/ren. I'm putting $5 on it now.

 

I have seen this situation play out so many times that it's so predictable. I hope for his sake that it doesn't go this way, but I'm betting it will.

 

 

 

Oh I think you may be right on all the righteous indignation and rallying all her girlfriends into a manhating frenzy.

 

 

She may moan and groan about downsizing and moving is always a pain in the A but I'm still willing bet that the tears will dry up pretty quick if there are any shed at all.

[Popsicle]

It's that kind of thinking that have caused people to endure way more abuse, abandonment, neglect, addictions and every other form of misery than anyone should have to.

 

 

Do you sincerely think someone should just suffer for the rest of their life in a loveless, sexless, passionless marriage with someone that doesn't love them or desire and has just been paying lipservice to a marriage for the rest of their life because they recited a slogan 18 years prior?

 

 

for some people "till death do us part" is a commitment that they take in good faith and do everything they can to hold up their end of the bargain and make their spouse want to be married to them and keep them happy.

 

 

Other's use it as license to neglect and disregard their spouses needs and desires. They figure, "hey, he/she took a vow not to leave me and not to cheat on me so I'm going to get fat and lazy and not lift a finger to make him/her happy and do my own thing and there ain't a thing he/she can do about it.

 

 

In this case Sparky has communicated his needs and issues and she's done is used words to get him off her back, she hasn't really done anything to change the situation.

 

 

-She's employed and has her own means to support herself.

 

 

- he didn't mention the son's age but I think we can assume he is not a young child requiring 24/7 hands on care by two parents.

 

 

- Kids are harmed by being in an environment of adultery, abuse, neglect, abandonment and two parents attacking and disparaging each other and using the kids as pawns in their conflict. Children are not harmed by two parents negotiating an amicable divorce and continuing to love and support the children from two different houses and cooperating as committed coparents.

 

 

yes, back in the days of yore, there were people that remained married because they were committed to enduring their misery. That's on them. If a person today has the ways and means pursue a better life without bringing harm to others, why shouldn't they??

 

 

This gal already has no desire or love for him, she just likes the security and stability of having some guy in the home to share the rent and help raise the child. What real skin is it off her back if he moves on as long as he doesn't try to completely screw her over in the divorce?

 

 

Yes, she may need to move to a smaller house if they split but she won't have to store any of his stuff so will that really even matter?

 

 

And she may then finally have the freedom and ability to meet a man that she actually does love and desire.

Love this post.

[beach]

You know what I admire in this poster? That he's made a decision and plans to act on it!

 

Too many times here we see a spouse that is terribly unhappy yet stays.

 

His wife has with held sex for all of the M - that's cruel. She's had plenty of notice to change and step up her way she participates.

 

Now he's just over it! Nothing wrong with that. At least he's honest!

 

At least he plans to change it!

 

And why on earth would people continue living in a M with no sex, intimacy and a lot of pretending that it's enough? It's not enough! For most men the sex and intimacy is how they define their worth - so she's essentially squashed him for 18 years by pretending (lying) that she will improve yet she doesn't do it.

 

There isn't anything loving about that!

 

When I hear that wives participate this way in a M - I just can't help but shake my head! It IS cruel!

 

He deserves to be happy - and if he's happy in his own - then great.

 

She wants to live life without participating in sex = she SHOULD EXPECT to be single! That way she won't be causing further harm by with holding the sex.

 

I'm sure the OP has had plenty of time to consider her feelings - but that may be the problem - the OP feelings haven't been taken seriously for nearly 20 years. That's a long time to feel deprived.

 

She acts single - let her be single.

 

You can be happy on your own - and maybe you'll enjoy finding a better match for a partner in your future.

 

Just don't go dating anyone until your divorce is final, that gets too complicated.

[Tiger Lily]

You know what I admire in this poster? That he's made a decision and plans to act on it!

 

I just find it ironic that he posted in the Marriage Forum, and not Separation and Divorce. Makes me think there's a small grain of doubt about his decision. He may go through with it. However, looking at some of the OP's previous threads, seems like he's been fed up before.

 

Either way, OP, you have nothing to prove to us. This is purely between you, your family, and God.

[Allumere]

Nothing wrong with his decision...it is his to make. It is still however sad that it got to this point and it seems a lot of unhappy years. It has to be a 2 way street and whoever was commenting about being nicer etc. when it comes to sex this general statement would apply to the majority..men feel loved when they have sex, women have sex when they feel loved. Again, can't speak for her but I do understand his desire to leave. I have very close friends that are married and the scenario is the same in regards to the whole trying thing, always having a physical excuse etc. It has been very crushing for the guy because he does love her dearly but he has already tolerated it through the age of having kids so should he now also give up on intimacy for the rest of his life. I hate divorce, it goes against my beliefs but I have been around and through enough myself to see the pain and suffering a bad marriage can cause and I certainly cannot tell someone in that situation that they must stick it out and I find myself more and more to tell people it is time to get out.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Allumere

[Sparty97]

A lot of assumptions in here. We don't know why she's staying. She might be happy. If he hasn't made it an issue for 18 years, why would she think there's a problem?

 

This seems to be more a relationship problem than a gender problem per se. Not sure why you're trying to turn it into one so strongly. An 18 year marriage is a co-creation. People need to be able to communicate their needs and wants effectively. Not mind reading about what the other person wants, if things have just been rolling along.

 

When did I say I had not made an issue of this? I have said I have brought this up at various points in the marriage. Each time she has said she will make efforts only to go back on her word.

[Sparty97]

I just find it ironic that he posted in the Marriage Forum, and not Separation and Divorce. Makes me think there's a small grain of doubt about his decision. He may go through with it. However, looking at some of the OP's previous threads, seems like he's been fed up before.

 

Either way, OP, you have nothing to prove to us. This is purely between you, your family, and God.

 

 

Who is this "God" you speak of?

[2sunny]

You've expressed info that indicates your W may be interested in women. That would explain a bit more but certainly doesn't solved the no sex problem.

 

 

I need to ask you - are you emotionally connected to another woman now - or having an affair?

[Tiger Lily]

Who is this "God" you speak of?

 

I see you've been repeatedly flippant and argumentative with my posts.

 

It's cool. You don't have to participate in any meaningful discussion with me. I just wonder, if this is how you treat people trying to help you, how must you treat your wife?

 

Best of luck.

[2sunny]

I see you've been repeatedly flippant and argumentative with my posts.

 

It's cool. You don't have to participate in any meaningful discussion with me. I just wonder, if this is how you treat people trying to help you, how must you treat your wife?

 

Best of luck.

 

I thought it was a useful question - believe it or not - everyone doesn't believe in "God".

 

Some of the nicest and kindest people I've met are not "God" believers... Yet they tend to be generous, kind and extremely helpful to others - operating on a solid moral compass.

 

So - it's possible that "God" doesn't exist for everyone.

[AmyBamy]

A lot of assumptions in here. We don't know why she's staying. She might be happy. If he hasn't made it an issue for 18 years, why would she think there's a problem?

 

This seems to be more a relationship problem than a gender problem per se. Not sure why you're trying to turn it into one so strongly. An 18 year marriage is a co-creation. People need to be able to communicate their needs and wants effectively. Not mind reading about what the other person wants, if things have just been rolling along.

 

Historically this is a gender issue. Men are usually the ones complaining that their marriage lacks sex, not women. Of course it does happen the other way, it happened to me in fact, but that is definitely not the normal way it goes.

 

I believe that women have become complacent. That they believe that once they are married that they can give up that part of the relationship. I also believe that many women are dishonest prior to marriage about their sex drive when they are still willing to do things to make the man happy so that he will marry them. I think it's unfair to all people involved to pretend to have a sex drive that you don't have. Because once you take those vows, that is supposed to be it sexually, you two are now forged together supposedly forever. And, if one person went in lying about such an important part of the marriage, intimacy, then imo that contract is voided because it was signed under false pretenses.

 

I'm not trying to make it a gender issue, it just kind of is a gender issue.

[Tiger Lily]

I thought it was a useful question - believe it or not - everyone doesn't believe in "God".

 

Some of the nicest and kindest people I've met are not "God" believers... Yet they tend to be generous, kind and extremely helpful to others - operating on a solid moral compass.

 

So - it's possible that "God" doesn't exist for everyone.

 

A polite response would be, "Oh, I don't believe in God, but thank you".

 

No, the OP had to respond in a flippant way. Anyway, the comment about God really wasn't central to my post...the OP made it a big deal. If he doesn't believe, no need to say anything at all.

[beach]

 

I believe that women have become complacent. That they believe that once they are married that they can give up that part of the relationship. I also believe that many women are dishonest prior to marriage about their sex drive when they are still willing to do things to make the man happy so that he will marry them. I think it's unfair to all people involved to pretend to have a sex drive that you don't have. Because once you take those vows, that is supposed to be it sexually, you two are now forged together supposedly forever. And, if one person went in lying about such an important part of the marriage, intimacy, then imo that contract is voided because it was signed under false pretenses.

 

I'm not trying to make it a gender issue, it just kind of is a gender issue.

 

No, it's not a "gender issue" it happens with both men and women - we see it here often enough.

 

And I'm not sure why you would think women get complacent in M - I've never known any of my friends to be that way - in fact, in my circle - women love sex a lot as part of a healthy, happy relationship. I'm unsure why you have a broad brush strike about married WOMEN being complacent when I'm old and I know none. But I was raised to be a partner and honor the M by nurturing it with love.

 

I was M 20 years - we still had sex usually two times a day - amazing sex - sometimes when time allowed 3 times a day...right to the end when I found out he was cheating. I've never even touched him since then - it's been almost 10 years ago now.

 

Women love sex when it's good, when there's intimacy involved.

 

 

Personally, this OP not only lacks sex in his M, he also lacks intimacy and respect from his W.

 

I'm not sure why he would be encouraged to endure more pain and feeling isolated while under the guise of a marriage.

[hope2014]

OP

 

Sorry you're pissed off. But your post seems....strange

 

"I love my wife but I am not happy in our marriage and I am not sure I ever was." is the kind of thing, cheaters say, when rewriting the marital history to justify to themselves what they are doing. Anyone getting "hit on left and right" is already sending out signals that they are available. Why are you doing that?

 

So she is not keen on sex, and you have been married for 18 years. Hmm. Is that all that is wrong with her? She works? She is an OK mom? She does not subject you to emotional abuse? Is her cooking real bad? What you have described, seems more than a bit insufficient for the bile you heap on her.

 

What's really going on here? Is there some conflict that you're not telling us about, or is it really that you are there, shifting from foot to foot and getting pissy when you don't get sex. Sex *is* important, I sure mean that. But it tends to follow from communication, and that is the thing that perhaps you do not have with your wife: a good understanding of each others needs.

 

I think we need more info. Does she refuse to talk? How does she avoid sex? How plain have you made it to her that you need it? You describe her as a coasting perhaps, but you seem to be the one who has checked out of the marriage.

 

That son of whose scholastic achievement you boast - he's not going to benefit from your divorce, you know that?

 

If it's just that you're a shallow guy and want to trade up to a hottie ... well no need to dress it up, it's only an internet forum, we can judge you but we can't bite.

 

Aside from a renewed desire for sex ... what is it about your wife compared to your wonderful self, that merits you divorcing her? If it's just sex you can fix that, if you are willing to make the effort to make it plain to her how important it is to you. Not in a "I want sex or I will divorce you" way, but "I have some emotional and physical needs, and you don't seem to want to meet them" way.

 

I reckon you're nowhere near making a good decision for the right reasons. But you can get there if you want to put the work in. Good luck.

 

I agree! I think you need to examine yourself as well and hopefully work things out together

[beach]

A polite response would be, "Oh, I don't believe in God, but thank you".

 

No, the OP had to respond in a flippant way. Anyway, the comment about God really wasn't central to my post...the OP made it a big deal. If he doesn't believe, no need to say anything at all.

 

There's no reason to take it personally. Each person responds in their own style - it's part of being able to tell more about that person by the words he chose.

 

Use it as a tool and it helps to understand what people really won't type... Kind of like body language. ;-)

 

 

Sorry - didn't mean to be off topic...

[beach]

I agree! I think you need to examine yourself as well and hopefully work things out together

 

Really? How can that happen when his wife shows more interest in women and only has sex with him out of pity 5 times a year?

 

You call that a M that should be worked out? Why????

[down hearted]

I am coming up on my 18th anniversary and I think I have finally made the decision to file for a divorce. Of the 18, I think all of them would qualify as sexless under the clinical definition (once a month or less) with at least one stretch of a year.

 

I love my wife but I am not happy in our marriage and I am not sure I ever was.

 

About 3 months ago I started to get my fitness and health back on track after a recent slide. I have lost nearly 30lbs and I am feeling and looking good. I have been getting hit on left and right at work and at the gym, it feels great but it also lets me know what I am missing.

 

I suppose this seems shallow, but this is something we have talked about a number of times and she makes feeble efforts to change but it never lasts. A couple of months back she made some comment about her increased sex drive. I didn't say a word because I knew it was BS. In fact, we haven't had any physical intimacy since she mentioned it.

 

My job is going great. I feel great. My son had a great year in school. My wife sucks. One of these things is not like the other.

 

Worse yet, it's not just our sex life she puts no effort into. It's her career as well. She does have a job, but it's well below what her education and background would allow for. A couple of weeks ago an internal posting at her employer came up that really would have suited her. She even forwarded the email to me. I was very encouraging, telling her she should apply, etc. She seemed excited and then nothing. She didn't submit a cover letter or her resumé and when I asked her if she had she said I shouldn't pressure her.

 

I am so done with this BS.

 

I guess the question is this: It's probably waayyyyy not cool to do it before our anniversary. How long after should I wait?

 

Can i just say, you are a brave man after so many years deciding on a big move, i feel i would drag it along as much as i could just because of the years part, I just wouldn't have the guts to do it. You should do what makes you happy life is too short to be wasted when the other does not seem to try.

[DKT3]

I stand amazed at how often a wife feels that if sex isn't an important part of marriage then the husband should feel the same way. Physical contact is the way most men get their validation from the woman in their life. It is as important to us and any connection that women feel they need. Women too often demand her needs be met, then dismiss her husbands needs as "oh its only sex, it shouldn't be that important". I've heard this from countless friends.

 

With that being said, I believe that you (OP) are in control of your sex life. Ima go out on a limb here and guess that your wife doesn't enjoy sex. If so why? I believe that is the conversation you should be having. What is her Love Language? If you don't know then you haven't been paying attention, maybe its part of the problem.

 

Maybe you have had the conversation and not asked the right question or got angry with the answers you got.

 

Another thing, your wife is likely clueless as to how serious of a situation this is on your part. Sex like everything in a marriage can be fixed with calm rational conversation. I totally understand how hard this can be when resentment and anger sets in.

 

Maybe too much has happened, for you. I don't sense that, if so you wouldn't be here.

 

Bottom line is how committed you are to being married vs being divorced. I assure you the latter sucks when you haven't exhausted all possible roads. But I also understand looking across the dinner table at someone you resent, some you feel doesn't see you as enough.

[DKT3]

And another thing, op I'm giving you a standing O right now for doing this (should you end the marriage) the right way instead of the easy way. Many people when not getting what they feel they deserve from the partner turn their attentions towards other people.

Edited June 2, 2014 by DKT3
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