Interracial Dating and moving to Europe

[Hidda]

I am currently having a relationship with a man who is German of Persian descent. Although he is of Persian descent, you would describe this man as the most typical German.

I was born in Kenya but moved to the US when I was 13. I consider myself African American and I am proud to be a black woman. But I haven´t got any experience when it comes to interracial dating. You could say that he is more Arab than white but in my opinion most Arab people are closer to white than black or brown, especially the German-Persian man I am dating right now.

At the moment, he is working in the US. However, he has told me that he prefers to live in Germany rather than the US.

He opposes long distance relationships. Therefore, he has simply asked me if I want to move to Germany with him. I don´t know what to say about this.

I have never been there but my black friends who have been there told me that Germany is not really friendly when it comes to Blacks.

My boyfriend told me that he has never had any problems altough he is Muslim and of Persian descent. But he admitted that people from the Middle-East have tremendous power in Germany, in all parts of society (Science, politics, and Economy). Thus, they are highly respected and are less likely to become vicitms of racism.

He lives in Bavaria. I directly asked him what those people are like. He honestly answered that there is no Africa-American or Black community. There is an African American community in Berlin, but he lives in the predominantly White christian south.

I do know what to do but I am really close to this man and he is a great person. I do not want to break up with him.

[HappyLove]

Well I don't see where you mentioned that you love this man. If you have the lifestyle where you can leave your job and life behind to be with the man you love then go for it. If this is someone you recently met maybe it's not so wise. How long have you known him?

[Gaeta]

I don't know anything about Germany but you have to think long and hard before uprooting yourself for this man. How long you've been dating him?

 

For 6 years I lived 2,000 miles away from my family in a place I did not know the local language. It was not easy.

[Hidda]

I have known this man for years. But our relationship started in 2013. I have been dating this man for a long time. We are really close. There is no problem with my job. We are both working for the same company. It is a German company and I have already talked with my boss. They would let me continue my job in Germany.

 

I am just a little bit concerned when it comes to moving and living in another country. Germany is a different culture. I have already noticed this when I am being together with him. They are completely different people compared to the average American.

[Gaeta]

About going there on a couple weeks vacation first? Scout the territory, get a feel of the community, etc.

[Ninjainpajamas]

In romantic terms this might seem like a totally "realistic" alternative to staying together with whatever thoughts are bouncing around your head...but it's not.

 

You may work for the same company, the company may be German...but the company is in the United States not in Germany where you have the experience and professional relationships, the culture and system will likely function much differently when in the country itself, despite what you think you know, and without experience you have no idea how that will work out or feel for you in spite of your most optimistic views, the reality may be much different.

 

Secondly I'm guessing you don't speak any German, therefore you're sacrificing all of your independence and freedom to be completely dependent on this man...that you think you know well so far, but you don't know how you're going to be together in that environment and with that pressure, dependent on him for just about everything.

 

No friends...no family...no German, think about that for a second and what that means.

 

This relationship also sounds a bit shaky from the vibe I'm getting here too, I don't get the impression this is a very stable and tested relationship just something that developed out of a whirlwind/FWB type romance. And a couple of years is not a long time to know somebody contrary to popular belief...yes, you may know certain aspects about him that are "deep" but I'd consider a relationship at your point still in the beginning stages and all that stuff really doesn't impact compatibility. It takes a good 4 years, and that's with experience of living together and such, to really know where you stand with a person and how you adapt together...because sharing, finances, little likes and dislikes, personal space, living space, etc...all those things come out of the wood work as that lovey dovey phase wears off, and for you that might be an unpleasant experience living half-way around the world.

 

Also your black, so it's not like you're just going to "blend-in", people might give you uncomfortable stares or treatment you might not be used to in the US, chances are you're going to stand out quite a bit and that might make you have a harder time adjusting.

 

On the positive side, I'd say if all else fails at least you can come back and hopefully still work for the same company...what I'd say though if you want to take this big of a risk is, put your stuff in storage, have a back-up and saved up cash in case you need to come back. Have someone take care of your car and what not, don't just sell it all away for "Romeo" because your relationship could be over in six months to a year. So be realistic, it's a huge sacrifice and move for a guy you've only known a few years...sure, I believe in "romance", but I'm not stupid either, I'd have a plan just in case things realistically didn't work.

 

I'll be honest with you, I'm willing to bet you'll regret the decision if you just go on over there and "sacrifice it all away for love!", and you can color it as "At least i learned from the experience, no regrets in love!" but in the back of your mind it won't take that long to realize you fked up in reality.

 

And make sure to do the research yourself, find expats in Bavaria, join a forum...ask questions, people will likely give you the straight truth about life there...also he is Muslim, have you talked about how that may impact the relationship? what his family may think about being with a black, non-Muslim?

 

Just a dose of reality...I know that "love conquers all!" should be the theme of everyone's fantasies, but hopefully you use your brain a little bit before diving in, hopefully this more of a romantic idea than a reality for you that you'd be wiling to consider, because you'll be sacrificing a lot.

 

Also visiting a country is not anything like living there, you might get an impression of it but until you start trying to live life doing the monotonous daily activities...that's when you'll start to actually feel the "culture shock"

[Hidda]

Thank you for your responses.

I will definetly have a backup plan. I will not sell my house here and only sign a short term contract.

But you are wrong when it comes to our relationship. I have know this man for years. I have been the first peron he met when he came to the US. We are really close to each other.

But I know...Going to Germany, a county with a completely different culture, is a huge deal.

 

But when it comes to him being a muslim....it does not bother me.

I come from a deeply Christian family.

He might be considered a Muslim but he does not really believe in Relgion. He is more of an atheist. I have already met his family when they spent their holidays in the US. They are the most open minded people I have ever met. I have also got to know a lot of his German friends. They all have been really nice to me. Me being black has never been a big deal when I spent time with him and his German friends.

But he admitted that he lives in a very conservative part of Germany.

He told me that Bavarians are very conservative.

 

I still have to think about this major decision. But I think that I might regret not taking this risk.

[Ninjainpajamas]

Thank you for your responses.

I will definetly have a backup plan. I will not sell my house here and only sign a short term contract.

But you are wrong when it comes to our relationship. I have know this man for years. I have been the first peron he met when he came to the US. We are really close to each other.

But I know...Going to Germany, a county with a completely different culture, is a huge deal.

 

But when it comes to him being a muslim....it does not bother me.

I come from a deeply Christian family.

He might be considered a Muslim but he does not really believe in Relgion. He is more of an atheist. I have already met his family when they spent their holidays in the US. They are the most open minded people I have ever met. I have also got to know a lot of his German friends. They all have been really nice to me. Me being black has never been a big deal when I spent time with him and his German friends.

But he admitted that he lives in a very conservative part of Germany.

He told me that Bavarians are very conservative.

 

I still have to think about this major decision. But I think that I might regret not taking this risk.

 

Just a few questions...why did it take so long to start dating if you've known this man for so many years and you built such a close relationship with him?

 

And do you think it might have had to do with you being one of the first people he met in the US as to why he has such a close relationship with you? do you think he might have just become dependent on that relationship being in a foreign country?

 

How into you/serious about you do you think he is? on a romantic level...did he introduce you as his partner or his friend with his family?

[Hidda]

It has taken me a long time to start dating because I was new to interracial dating. I have never been dating a white man before I met him.

Whenever we are with his friends he introduces me as his partner.

 

He has not become dependent on that relationship. We just had a good chemistry when we first met each other.

[bluegreen]

I am European myself and from what I know of Germany's part of Bavaria is :

Absolutely gorgeous country side lots of culture and lovely sites to see great winter spots and so on BUT : very VERY conservative "white" community.

Think well before you do this better yet if possible make visit or two before like a month at least at time go see places do stuff see how people interact live think behave.

 

 

In my humble opinion Germany has 5 steps ahead of USA in way of life but I would not suggest you move to that particular part.

[Gottabestrong]

As someone who is familiar with Germany I second what bluegreen has said. Bavaria is beautiful and people are generally nice, BUT there are barely any black people and those who are, often are refugees from Africa, who for various reasons (lack of work permits, racism, difficulty to find jobs, etc.) are often in trouble with the law. Therefore many people might automatically assume that you are one of those. Only when they get to know you better, will they start to treat you as an individual. If you move there, I would prepare myself for stares and prejudice.

 

I definitely suggest you go there on an extended vacation first, before you decide to move there. But just for the record, I do agree that the standard of living is way higher in Germany than in the US (this is true for most Western European countries) so there are definitely lots of pros in a move to Germany as well.

 

Good luck!

[bluegreen]

Thank you : )))

Germany is well populated with no scratch that chock full of foreign people so you will meet many of them learn lots of stuff see even more than that.

What few people in North USA know is that German's as people are very conservative "cold" in more gentle therm reserved at best precise in their thinking and punctual.

USA friendliness chit chatting with strangers making friends in grocery store lines does not exist I truly do doubt they even understand the concept of it.

Once again they are not bad people they are "reserved" at least true Germans are and I can say this for sure that they helped MANY people from war torn countries gave them new starts in life educations jobs homes but when wars calmed down they "politely" or not so politely depends on areas and circumstances kicked them out.

 

 

In Germany even if you are born there unless you are born of both German parents you are not one of them EVER.

 

 

 

PS: Bavaria is also one of parts of Germany who was very happy to support

Hitlers movement need I say more ?

[SensitiveTJ]

I am currently having a relationship with a man who is German of Persian descent. Although he is of Persian descent, you would describe this man as the most typical German.

I was born in Kenya but moved to the US when I was 13. I consider myself African American and I am proud to be a black woman. But I haven´t got any experience when it comes to interracial dating. You could say that he is more Arab than white but in my opinion most Arab people are closer to white than black or brown, especially the German-Persian man I am dating right now.

At the moment, he is working in the US. However, he has told me that he prefers to live in Germany rather than the US.

He opposes long distance relationships. Therefore, he has simply asked me if I want to move to Germany with him. I don´t know what to say about this.

I have never been there but my black friends who have been there told me that Germany is not really friendly when it comes to Blacks.

My boyfriend told me that he has never had any problems altough he is Muslim and of Persian descent. But he admitted that people from the Middle-East have tremendous power in Germany, in all parts of society (Science, politics, and Economy). Thus, they are highly respected and are less likely to become vicitms of racism.

He lives in Bavaria. I directly asked him what those people are like. He honestly answered that there is no Africa-American or Black community. There is an African American community in Berlin, but he lives in the predominantly White christian south.

I do know what to do but I am really close to this man and he is a great person. I do not want to break up with him.

 

This is pedantic, but if he is "Persian" i.e. Iranian, then he is not an "Arab." Two separate groups of people.

[bubbaganoosh]

If I may and this took place way back in 1968-69. I was in the army and was in Germany.

 

Now there weren't many black people living there but there were quite a few black guys in the army and so there was a lot of interracial dating.

 

Didn't seem to bother any one that I knew that were German and that was many moons ago and today interracial dating is more popular than it was back then so I don't think there would be any kind of problem that I would worry about.

 

I do have a question though. Since he's of different faith than you, does his family know? Nothing worse that when your own family starts making waves about their kids choice, so maybe you should address that with him.

 

Some families are really strict about it. But then I wish you luck and happiness.

[soccerrprp]

Hidda,

 

Let's put some perspective and more common sense into this...

 

1. You are not THAT invested in this guy to move all the way to Germany

2. It really doesn't make much of a difference which part, but if it is Bavaria....forget it.

3. If things don't work out, what then????

4. Higher standard of living....whatever. As a foreigner, how do you think you will benefit from that advantage? Job?

5. Different language, different culture...again, what if it doesn't work out?

6. There are a number of legal/citizenship-related issues that you will need to overcome...again...job?

7. So, you two will be living together?

 

If he really likes you...as someone else said, no one has mentioned love. He should put a ring on it....set a date...tell his family and friends....get married....then move.

 

Before any of that...let love spring forward. And it sounds like that hasn't happened, so too soon to consider making ALL of the sacrifice, all of the risk by moving there.

[FitChick]

Since your company will sponsor you, that is the biggest hurdle already overcome. Second would be language. How could you work for a German company in Germany and not speak German?

 

I grew up near an Air Force Base in the US and there were plenty of black servicemen who came back from their tour of duty in Germany with white German wives.

 

If they hate Africans, you can present yourself as an American. Of course, that might present another set of different problems since almost every country in the world hates the US now.

 

I am adventurous so I say go for a short period of time. Any stress you experience will test the strength of your relationship so if it doesn't work out, at least you know you gave it your best shot.

[Tressugar]

My father has lived in Germany and I have visited Germany. Europe love people of color. I say move to Germany!

[joeLove]

Which city in Germany? Bavaria is quite large and has lots of different things to offer.

I'm African American and I lived in Bavaria many many years ago (over 20+ years). I lived in a small city called Bamberg, which is north of Nuremberg and Munich. There used to be a US Military bases there and they had lots of African Americans there. Munich (which is South of Bamberg) also has lots of African Americans and Africans. Munich is a very diverse city. It is one of the Business Centers of Germany and one of the most dynamic and vibrant cities in Germany and in all of Europe. You will meet all types of people in Munich.

Bavaria is the most conservative part of Germany, especially small cities and counties. But, it doesn't mean all people there think the same way. You can think of Bavaria as the deep South of the USA.

Just like in every culture, you will encounter people who are very low-information type people, and you will encounter very open minded people. I enjoyed my stay while I was there.

If you love this man and he loves you, move with him. If your love is strong, nothing can shake it. Plenty of love survived segregation and racism in America even in the deep South at the height of racial discrimination. Both of you need to be strong and make sure your relationship is on very solid ground. Nothing will shake it.

Once you move there, you will encounter lots of nice people and make plenty of friends, who are just as interracial as you both are.

Germany is a very developed country. The country does a lot for its citizens...

[MissionPossible]

Wow, this is a great thread!

 

I love that you're considering moving to Europe, I'm actually pretty blown away that everyone here is trying to discourage you. I for one say go for it!

 

Once upon a time I moved to Austria for love, so I have a pretty good idea of what it would be like, I think. I met an Austrian while on a backpacking trip and we just couldn't let it lie until we'd tried dating for real. Austrian culture is very similar to German (both speak German) so I'll tell you a bit about my experience.

 

To start, Europeans are much more colorblind than we are here in the States. I don't anticipate that you'd have many problems from Germans based on your skin color. However, as someone said here, unless you were born there you will NEVER be one of them and this may or may not bother you. It bothered me quite a bit. I am as white as the moon, with German ancestry. Yet as an American and with English being my native language, I was always separate from them and they didn't really let me forget that. I remember having dinner with my boyfriend, his parents and his grandmother (who didn't speak English). Both my boyfriend and his sister were dating people from different countries, (sister's bf was French) so the four of us always spoke in English since it was the only language we had in common. We were chatting away and the grandma says in German, "if only Hitler were still around we wouldn't have English invading our culture like this!"

 

Talk about awkward.

 

I also got confronted by an old lady at the grocery store and another old man at the gas station for conversing with a friend in English. Very weird. I'll add though, that it's only people 60+ or so who seem to have this perception, and that everyone else under the age of 40 or so speaks English.

 

But the other difficulty I had was the conservatism of the culture. Things we take for granted - having a conversation with a stranger while in line at the store, smiling as you pass someone on the street, or being able to ask a stranger for directions - DOES NOT happen there. If you try any of these people will look at you like you are crazy. It seems like a small thing, but this was a huge problem for me over time and ultimately the reason I ended up coming back to the States after a year.

 

I remember a guy falling down the stairs in the subway once. I went to see if he was OK and help him, and my boyfriend asked, "Why on earth did you do that? You don't even know him." I was just like - seriously?! It's not that my bf was a bad person or anything, it's just that the German/Austrian mindset is very different.

 

So…despite all that being said….DO IT! For me it was an amazing adventure, one I would never undo even if given the chance. Everyone should live abroad at some point, it gives you a much broader perspective on what it means to be human, and I promise you'll grow so much as a person if you move there. Besides, what's the worst that could happen? You end up not liking it and move home? You guys get together and realize it probably won't endure the test of time? None of those are so bad, and I don't understand why people would avoid these risks. You take those every time you date a person, period, and every time you move to a new city or state.

 

The thing is, none of us are getting younger, and people spend way too much time coloring inside the lines, so to speak. Boring. You actually have a great opportunity here, with the option to continue your job. I showed up with just a suitcase, no job, no place to live, didn't speak a word of German when I arrived, and it turned out wonderfully for me.

 

Live a life less ordinary!

[Do_The_Herp]

USA friendliness chit chatting with strangers making friends in grocery store lines does not exist I truly do doubt they even understand the concept of it.

?

 

That exists in the US?

[giblesp]

Stop seeing people in shades of color. Go beyond their skin and see inside.

[Priv]

Go for it. beautiful part of Germany. Also, within halve a day drive you can be in the Vosges (France), Austria and Switzerland. That general region belongs to just about the most beautiful part of Europe. You will have a blast daytripping for the next few years. Your job is sorted, and you will be with the man you love. It would be the DUMBEST thing I have heard in a long time to forego all that because of your fear of racism.

 

 

I can't pretend to know what it is like being a victim of racism but you as African surely have encountered it a few times. You probably will in Europe to some extent (there are idiots everywhere). Big deal. You can't hide from your own life and a great opportunity out of fear. And if your boyfriend doesn't really encounter it in the general area, I doubt you will. Just as in the US, people from from the middle east can be and are a target of racism.

 

 

About the language. Learn it and have fun doing it. People will love it if you try learning their native tongue.

[Priv]

Oh yes, the most likely 'racism' you will encounter has nothing to do with your skin colour and more to do with you being American. So expect some provocative political questions ;-). Though that used to be worse a few years ago (mumbles something about recent wars and the crises etc. etc.).

 

 

Also, I don't understand why Hitler has been named twice now in this thread. That is such an non-topic outside and inside Germany.

[umirano]

I am currently having a relationship with a man who is German of Persian descent. Although he is of Persian descent, you would describe this man as the most typical German.

You clearly don't know any 'real' Germans. Europe legally and emotionally has a different take on nationalities than the US. It's Ius Solis vs. Ius Sanguis which plays out in how people identify someone from their own country.

 

You could say that he is more Arab than white but in my opinion most Arab people are closer to white than black or brown,

Persians are not Arabs. Turks are not Arabs. Some Lebanese are, Syrians are for the most part. So are Jordans, Saudis, Yemenis or Qataris. But Persians clearly are not.

 

He opposes long distance relationships. Therefore, he has simply asked me if I want to move to Germany with him. I don´t know what to say about this.

Move? You can't just move there easily, unless Germany grants you a visa because you're in a career that Germany cannot train enough people in. Is he talking 'move' or 'marry'?

 

I have never been there but my black friends who have been there told me that Germany is not really friendly when it comes to Blacks.

Like any western country Germany has it's share of racist, uneducated and frustrated extremists. I doubt it's worse in Germany than in other European countries. I'd say hatred against other races goes up with unemployment regardless of the country you're in.

 

My boyfriend told me that he has never had any problems although he is Muslim and of Persian descent. But he admitted that people from the Middle-East have tremendous power in Germany, in all parts of society (Science, politics, and Economy). Thus, they are highly respected and are less likely to become vicitims of racism.

Muslims are not highly respected in Germany. Actually most of the discussions in interior politics are about how to (better) integrate Muslims because large numbers of them have a hard time getting professional training and thus are likely to get into trouble with the law (at least when they're young). There are comparably few Persian muslims. Most muslims in Germany are of Turkish descent, usually from the poor and culturally backward region of Anatolia.

 

He lives in Bavaria. I directly asked him what those people are like. He honestly answered that there is no Africa-American or Black community. There is an African American community in Berlin, but he lives in the predominantly White christian south.

I do know what to do but I am really close to this man and he is a great person. I do not want to break up with him.

Bavaria can rightly be labelled conservative and christian. But things are changing there too, and I doubt Munich is more conservative or christian than, say, Austin.

[umirano]

But the other difficulty I had was the conservatism of the culture. Things we take for granted - having a conversation with a stranger while in line at the store, smiling as you pass someone on the street, or being able to ask a stranger for directions - DOES NOT happen there. If you try any of these people will look at you like you are crazy.

 

and

 

I remember a guy falling down the stairs in the subway once. I went to see if he was OK and help him, and my boyfriend asked, "Why on earth did you do that? You don't even know him." I was just like - seriously?! It's not that my bf was a bad person or anything, it's just that the German/Austrian mindset is very different.

That's very funny to hear. What I hear from local friends and acquaintances is the opposite, that international guests or expats are unfriendly and unwilling to help. I for one end up striking up conversation with strangers on the street all the time. I think it's your ex boyfriend who was being weird. Helping in situations like these is totally normal in central Europe (as it is in almost any part of the world as far as I can tell). I can't think of a single friend or relative who wouldn't do it.

 

One thing expats tend to forget though is that language is key. And it's not English, no. German and French or Italian or whatever language is the local one, is what counts. If you're unwilling to learn it, don't be surprised if you find it hard to have conversations or make friends. Though pretty much any European learns English in school to some degree, most people are not fluent in it. They may use it from time to time on a trip, at work or when watching a youtube movie. But they aren't comfortable in it. They don't know slang, they speak slowly and need time to decipher accents. School English is different from the cali swirl.

 

Some are more comfortable of course. In the bigger cities you'll find quite a few people, esp. when they're younger who are happy to use it with you.

 

Most cities and towns offer free language classes and conversation groups to join. I absolutely recommend doing that to any expat in Europe regardless where they're from. Also check meetup.com for a local language group or resort to a commercial offer in one of the language schools. I know too many sad cases of well paid expats in Europe thrilled about the food, the quality of life, the historical sites, the lifestyle, the landscape and whatnot, but appalled by what they call 'social cold' and the difficulties integrating even after many years. Sadly it's like a German moving to LA and always staying in his German bubble (talking to german friends, not having many conversations bc few people are fluent in German in LA, eating in german joints and skyping home in his free time).

 

Best,

umirano