ralph.stegner Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 Hi, I need to get this off my chest. I have recently married a wonderful woman. However I can get very sad about the difference in our sexual pasts. This has been going on for months, and I had hoped that time would make it go away. Not much luck with that so far. Early in the marriage, she asked me the question (how many people have you been with?) I sort of mumbled and stammered, I was sort of embarrassed, I have been with 4 prior to her. I didn't tell her that though, and just turned the question back on her. She said probably between 15 and 20 including "many one night stands." I didn't really know how to take that, it made me feel funny in a non descript way, but I couldn't really put my finger on it. A couple months later, after watching a comedy where two people "hooked up." She lightly mentioned it reminded her of something she did at an office party a couple years ealier, she then made the comment "every one knows what that's like." That's when it started. Suddenly I realized I didn't "know what that's like." I spent my later teens, twenties, and early thirties trying to "hook up" but with no success. I had 4 girlfriends, who like my wife, asked me to wait for several weeks, or months prior to having sex. Nothing wrong with that, but it made me think why did I have to wait when evidently several other did not? I ran with social groups in my younger year (high school, later in a bad rock band, and finally in the marines for several years) where my friends regularly "hooked up" with women. I saw how the women looked at them before they left together, and was never able to produce a look like that from any female I talked to. So when my wife said "you know what that's like" I suddenly realized several men have been able to arouse that immediate attraction in her. Not only was I not able to arouse that in her, I haven't in anyone else either. The problem isn't that she had one night stands, it's that I haven't. I sort feel like: if you got to get that out of your system, what am I? The boring guy? The harmless guy? I really don't like how this feels. My self esteem has bottomed out. I talked to my buddy about this, he said he and his wife laugh talking about all their sexual misadventures prior to meeting each other. I don't feel like I can do that. I don't know what to do. Sorry this is so long. I don't know that I really have a question. I just need to get it out.
dichotomy Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 (edited) Well this is certainly different than you think its wrong. Thats a good thing for you and the marriage that your not opposed to ONS or causal sex. Mismatched beliefs on sex are a tough issue for many a relationship. So you can't have anger at your wife for doing something you dont think is wrong - but you wish you did it too- and wonder if it there was something wrong with you that women did not throw it at you? Well In a sense I suspect you could have slept with lots of women - ONS and casual sex if you put your mind to it - were able to cop the attitude and approach....but then maybe you would not have been the type of guy they wanted to have a long term relationship with or marry. Some women (and men) divide potential partners in to "fun bad boy/bad girl" for quick raunchy sex ....and nice person I want to get to know and commit to. You want to be throw away guy or keeper? I suppose you could ask her "why did you wait with me or make me wait" but I am not sure this will help you. Did she hide her past from you - or more importantly lie about it? Lastly and most importantly for a man in marriage (trust me on this) are you happy with your sex life with your wife ? She seem happy and interested in jumping your bones? You feel desired and that she gives you her best in the bedroom ? She seem really satisfied by your best in the bedroom? Then count your blessings and forget about it. Oh one more thing - if you now know she was kind of very active before you - I would suggest you layout a boundary that says "Ok the past is the past, but i would not be happy if you had hidden connections (FB or work or friends) to any of these guys without discussing or sharing this with me - it would consider it a betrayal of trust". Edited May 28, 2014 by dichotomy 6
Author ralph.stegner Posted May 28, 2014 Author Posted May 28, 2014 Thanks for your reply. As far as the throw away guy vs. keeper, with her certainly the keeper. I suppose that she has had throw away guys, and I was never anyone's throw away guy, nor did I get to have a few throw away girls. Makes me feel weird, almost like I'm not sexually valid or something. I still can't put my finger on what exactly bothers me so much about it. Believe me, I tried to do this for over 15 years. Hell I was even in a band where it became the running joke that I was the one who couldn't get laid. When I was in college, and in the Corps I watched it happen all around me, and sometimes in the bunk above me. I was always either ignored, politely declined, and sometimes cruelly declined. In the past few years prior to meeting her I even purchased a couple of books on the subject of hooking up with women. I am not worried about her current fidelity. She hasn't lied or covered anything up that I am aware of. I haven't told her yet my issue with this. I have considered it, but I could see that being a conversation with the potential to go really wrong. However, she can increasingly tell that something is bothering me.
dichotomy Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 If you have read some books, then benefit from this - expressing sexual weakness, insecurities, or that your not "sexy" for her (or other women) to have slept with you right away - don't do it ! Don't express self esteem or sex confidence issues in this area to your wife - she will loose confidence and attraction for you. Bull**** if you have to - but act sexually confident and secure. Talk about it on this board - or with a buddy - or a shrink - but not to your wife ok?Act like da man - the stud with your wife. 2
Author ralph.stegner Posted May 28, 2014 Author Posted May 28, 2014 Yes. You are probably right. I am actually considering visiting with a counselor. There's a guy I talked to following my military experience, and it did me a world of good. Thanks. 2
SolG Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 Some women (and men) divide potential partners in to "fun bad boy/bad girl" for quick raunchy sex ....and nice person I want to get to know and commit to. You want to be throw away guy or keeper? ^^^ This is me! Casual sex, ONSs, etc, are just scratching an itch. Functional and best conducted with someone you have absolutely no interest in seeing again, let alone pursuing a relationship with; and they you. Avoids all that goo goo eyed number exchange awkwardness stuff. Now a guy I'm actually interested in (and attraction is always part and parcel of interest in my case).. I want to take the time to get to know him better before getting all distracted with the sex. And here's the other thing, if there's an emotional connection the sex is sooooooooooo much better. And I'm way more into the partner and exploring with them because of the emotion and trust that brings. Maybe your wife is like me and she gave those guys sexual scraps and predominately just used them (consensually) for relief. And what you've got is the real deal of her sexuality. Because you mean something real to her. I also think it says something good about you that you weren't ever the dispensable throw away guy. I think of the guys I wasn't romantically interested in but would never have used this way... They were the ones I actually liked. 1
Emilia Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 Some women (and men) divide potential partners in to "fun bad boy/bad girl" for quick raunchy sex ....and nice person I want to get to know and commit to. Same here. It's not even that I decide whether he is nice or not, it's more that I don't want to screw things up so I get to know him (before dating him, preferably) and if I like him then I definitely want to be more careful because I start getting attached. This is what I tried to explain on the prostitution thread when some men said those women were more sexually confident. It's not necessarily confidence, it's more that they don't care. If they cared, they would take their time too. 1
Emilia Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 If you have read some books, then benefit from this - expressing sexual weakness, insecurities, or that your not "sexy" for her (or other women) to have slept with you right away - don't do it ! Don't express self esteem or sex confidence issues in this area to your wife - she will loose confidence and attraction for you. Bull**** if you have to - but act sexually confident and secure. Talk about it on this board - or with a buddy - or a shrink - but not to your wife ok?Act like da man - the stud with your wife. Very good advice. I'd like to say otherwise but you are right. 1
GoodOnPaper Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 As a married guy with no casual sex experience myself, I can immediately identify with this: what am I? The boring guy? The harmless guy? I really don't like how this feels. My self esteem has bottomed out. But cannot wrap my head around this: Now a guy I'm actually interested in (and attraction is always part and parcel of interest in my case).. I want to take the time to get to know him better before getting all distracted with the sex. From the outside, it seems that the type of attraction that goes into ONSs and FWBs is so electric, carnal, involuntary and stronger than the attraction associated with the calculated wait-to-have-sex approach that so many women seem to prefer for relationships. Is that a misconception? Does a "relationship guy" bring just as much to the bedroom as these guys who can routinely attract ONSs? If so, how can he convince himself of that? 4
SolG Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 From the outside, it seems that the type of attraction that goes into ONSs and FWBs is so electric, carnal, involuntary and stronger than the attraction associated with the calculated wait-to-have-sex approach that so many women seem to prefer for relationships. Is that a misconception? Does a "relationship guy" bring just as much to the bedroom as these guys who can routinely attract ONSs? If so, how can he convince himself of that? Firstly, I have to caveat this with the fact that I can only speak for myself. I do not advocate that I am representative of all women at all! You're way off track in terms of ONSs and casual sex from the way I see them. They're not involuntary or highly carnal/electric or in any way stronger than the attraction I experience for men I actually want a relationship with. Quite the contrary in my case. Casual sex is deliberate and for a purpose. To get off and get out. Generally good (sex invariably is good! :-), but never special. For me special in the sex department only happens with an emotional connection; and a precursor to that is great attraction. If I'm actually interested in someone (this obviously for me includes high attraction), they have the potential to hurt me. Potential for higher return = greater risk. Whereas ONS boy can never hurt me because he's served his purpose and is henceforth completely irrelevant. So I have to be more careful with the guy I want to get to know better and possibly have a relationship with. He has more power (as opposed to ONS boy who has none). I want to know if I'm right and we can connect, and I also want to know if I'm safe. And also, sex in a new relationship can be quite consuming and distract from the actual deeply getting to know each other. That's why I wait in these circumstances, for all these reasons. And once I do have a connection and feel safe, I can tell you relationship guy is going to get his socks blown off sexually in a way that ONS boy can only ever dream of! Does this help at all? 3
Emilia Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 From the outside, it seems that the type of attraction that goes into ONSs and FWBs is so electric, carnal, involuntary and stronger than the attraction associated with the calculated wait-to-have-sex approach that so many women seem to prefer for relationships. Is that a misconception? Does a "relationship guy" bring just as much to the bedroom as these guys who can routinely attract ONSs? If so, how can he convince himself of that? Yes it is a misconception. The desire for the relationship guy isn't any less (for me), I'm more likely to think about him when I masturbate then some random guy for example. It's just that I'm more careful. Controlling yourself for a short period of time isn't that hard. When someone feels they missed out in their younger years it's perhaps because they settled down too young. I see this in men often, sometimes I think it's not even as specific as the OP's situation, more a boredom with marital sex.
Standard-Fare Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 A) Your inability to get quick hookups in the past likely has nothing to do with your "sexual virility." It's not like you were some meek virgin -- you had four legit girlfriends. Many men don't pull that off. But I'd guess that there's some fundamental aspects of your personality and sexuality that simply don't lend themselves to one-night stands. Scoring one-time hookups is an attitude thing. You have to want it and go after it. You didn't. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. B) That said, I think you're worrying too much about elements of your past you simply cannot change. It's done. Don't waste time on regrets. C) Also consider it a good sign that an "experienced woman" (your wife) chose you. She had a taste of what's out there, she did some experimenting, and at the of it all she was happy enough with you to commit, and give up all that other nonsense. That should give you some confidence about your sexual abilities. 2
GoodOnPaper Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 Does this help at all? Yes, thanks! When someone feels they missed out in their younger years it's perhaps because they settled down too young. I see this in men often, sometimes I think it's not even as specific as the OP's situation, more a boredom with marital sex. I agree, my situation is not the same as the OP's -- my wife's past experience level is comparable to mine -- but it's generated the same kind of feelings.
oldshirt Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 I know exactly how you feel Ralph, I was in much the same situation as you in my youth. I had legit girlfriends but no hook ups. By my mid 20s I began to have some ongoing FWBs and such but still no ONSs from the bar or impassioned hook ups from meeting at a party or anything. By the time I started seeing my wife, my total number was likely higher than hers but what still kind of stings to this day is she had some same night hook ups at the bar and she wouldn't even speak to me for months and it was months and months later and at the urging and encouragement of friends before she went out with me. To this day she will tell people that she did not like me at all when we first met and that I wasn't "her type." Now our marriage and relationship is good (18 1/2 years thus far) but I wanted to be one of those guys she had the instant desire and chemistry with. I wanted to be her type! I think the thing that hurts as a guy is you can't help but assume the guys she banged from the bar are the guys she really wanted and they were the ones that turned her away after the ONS. You can't help but feel she would've rode off into the sunset with them if they had wanted her. It sucks to feel like you were settled for. Those feelings are probably completely inaccurate and false but they are still there and still pack a sting to them. I think as guys we all want to all into a room and sweep a girl off her feet and have her fall madly in love with us on sight and live happily ever after. 6
TiredFamilyGuy Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 OP The way I see it, sex is largely about signals, and you were giving off the wrong ones for casual fun - probably because at some level not very deep down, you don't feel at ease with the idea. Also for me: got horny but always equated attraction with emotions, so hookup activity felt wrong so never had the lightness of touch necessary for success. Ended up with serial serious girlfriends (alas, not always the right ones but there we are!). Looking back, I think that's my nature. Thinking about it, I don't regret the sexual encounters I did not have - there is this saying that you regret what you didn't do more than what you did, but for me the best relationships were the deep ones, and sex, though important, isn't what made it happen for me. Not everyone feels this way, but if you do, you're far from alone even if it is not what you are "supposed" to feel. BTW I agree entirely with the poster who said not to agonise about this with your wife. Sex is about signals, and that's not a good one to give. One way I have changed is understanding that taking without asking can go down very well on occasion, you may wish to give it a try. Good luck. 1
mr_dave Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 I know exactly how you feel Ralph, I was in much the same situation as you in my youth. I had legit girlfriends but no hook ups. By my mid 20s I began to have some ongoing FWBs and such but still no ONSs from the bar or impassioned hook ups from meeting at a party or anything. By the time I started seeing my wife, my total number was likely higher than hers but what still kind of stings to this day is she had some same night hook ups at the bar and she wouldn't even speak to me for months and it was months and months later and at the urging and encouragement of friends before she went out with me. To this day she will tell people that she did not like me at all when we first met and that I wasn't "her type." Now our marriage and relationship is good (18 1/2 years thus far) but I wanted to be one of those guys she had the instant desire and chemistry with. I wanted to be her type! I think the thing that hurts as a guy is you can't help but assume the guys she banged from the bar are the guys she really wanted and they were the ones that turned her away after the ONS. You can't help but feel she would've rode off into the sunset with them if they had wanted her. It sucks to feel like you were settled for. Those feelings are probably completely inaccurate and false but they are still there and still pack a sting to them. I think as guys we all want to all into a room and sweep a girl off her feet and have her fall madly in love with us on sight and live happily ever after. Great post! I'm a 25 year old guy who isn't into casual sex and ONS. I've had a few offers (I think) but there's no way I could ever do it. What you have outlined above is exactly why I don't think I could enter a relationship with a woman who has had casual sex in the past. With all due respect, the guys who get casual sex aren't grossly overweight, spotty, socially awkward geeky types, but rather they are good-looking alpha male types. (Better looking and more confident than I am, as an average guy.) A woman who has spent a while being used and discarded by these guys would make me feel like a second choice - someone she was just settling for, when really she'd prefer to be with one of those guys she so strongly lusted after. Women can dress it up as they like, but from my male perspective anyway, if a lady is willing to give herself to a guy on the spot (because her desire for him is so strong), yet waits weeks and months to be willing to do the same with me, that reflects a lot better on him than it does on myself. 1
Turtles Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 Great post! I'm a 25 year old guy who isn't into casual sex and ONS. I've had a few offers (I think) but there's no way I could ever do it. What you have outlined above is exactly why I don't think I could enter a relationship with a woman who has had casual sex in the past. With all due respect, the guys who get casual sex aren't grossly overweight, spotty, socially awkward geeky types, but rather they are good-looking alpha male types. (Better looking and more confident than I am, as an average guy.) A woman who has spent a while being used and discarded by these guys would make me feel like a second choice - someone she was just settling for, when really she'd prefer to be with one of those guys she so strongly lusted after. Women can dress it up as they like, but from my male perspective anyway, if a lady is willing to give herself to a guy on the spot (because her desire for him is so strong), yet waits weeks and months to be willing to do the same with me, that reflects a lot better on him than it does on myself. There is a difference between sex and love and some people are more able than others to dissociate the 2. That being said, not getting involved with a woman who can separate sex & love that easily might be a wise idea!
Author ralph.stegner Posted May 29, 2014 Author Posted May 29, 2014 (edited) I am pleased and grateful for the insightful perspectives on this topic. Well, earlier this afternoon we were in the car going to friends. I said “remember last winter when you asked how many people I’d been with?” She gave me a wry little smile and raised one eyebrow, and said “you ducked that one didn’t you? ”Yeah. Four. She actually seemed to choke a little bit and said “seriously?” (still a big friendly smile) “Were you married before this?” “No, I once went five plus years without.” “God, what were you waiting for?” “You.” “Aww, but I am not going to let you forget this anytime soon.” We stopped by at a couple’s home that we are friends with. The husband asked if we wanted anything to drink. My wife, always the comedian, jumped in with “a glass of milk for the Virgin Ralph!” So she seems to think that I did it on purpose, and therefore worthy of being the subject of jokes. I guess I am happy enough with her thinking I was often sexless by choice. But I need to do something soon to help myself, because I feel pretty worthless. Edited May 29, 2014 by ralph.stegner Edited, cause i spell checked this with word, and it pasted strangely.
dichotomy Posted May 29, 2014 Posted May 29, 2014 (edited) sigh...... very few ever listen hard earned advice. I know I have not at times either and paid for it. Best wishes Virgin Ralph Edited May 29, 2014 by dichotomy 2
Author ralph.stegner Posted May 29, 2014 Author Posted May 29, 2014 Well, Dichotomy. I tried doing what you told me by being up front about my experience, but not betraying anything about the insecurities. I laughed along with her teasing. If she wants to keep the impression that I had limited experience by choice, I am not going to argue with it. As far as she is concerned I was and am just fine with everything. Old shirt, thanks for your reply. It is good to hear that I am not the only one who has experienced these feelings. SoIG you said: "Casual sex is deliberate and for a purpose. To get off and get out." I believe that this is probably what my wife would say if asked. I believe your statement to be true, and it reflects the crux of my problem. Why are some people able to "get off and get out" when they want. While others (like me) wanted that, tried to get it, and failed. I am not saying that I don't want to be special to my wife, I do. It's just that if she wanted ONS, and got them with men who by definition were themselves able to get ONS, and I was not in 15 years of trying able to have a ONS (including with my wife who made me wait), then I must in some way lack something that those men had. Logical? Probably not, but this problem seems to be affecting a part of my brain that logic doesn't hold much sway in. Thanks again all.
Emilia Posted May 29, 2014 Posted May 29, 2014 To this day she will tell people that she did not like me at all when we first met and that I wasn't "her type." Now our marriage and relationship is good (18 1/2 years thus far) but I wanted to be one of those guys she had the instant desire and chemistry with. I wanted to be her type! I think the thing that hurts as a guy is you can't help but assume the guys she banged from the bar are the guys she really wanted and they were the ones that turned her away after the ONS. You can't help but feel she would've rode off into the sunset with them if they had wanted her. It sucks to feel like you were settled for. Those feelings are probably completely inaccurate and false but they are still there and still pack a sting to them. I think as guys we all want to all into a room and sweep a girl off her feet and have her fall madly in love with us on sight and live happily ever after. Until recently I was seeing someone I was kind of friends with for years, nothing chummy and close but we socialised regularly. We are from different social and racial/ethnic backgrounds and not really each other's type. We didn't 'notice' each other for at least a year, I think he got interested in me before I did but that's because my mind was still with an ex and a messy relationship. Besides, his interest in me originally was mainly sexual - which is not much to say, really. The thing is, once we started dating he compared it to a pandora's box and the attraction was - still is - very strong. I assumed for ages that he was a grumpy git that didn't particularly rate western women and god knows what he thought on how I viewed him. What I'm saying is that you don't get to know someone truly until you start seeing them and often you will find a side to them that they hide from others but you find very attractive and likeable. Maybe this is how she felt about you. Maybe you are hard to get to know. In my experience the men that have higher number of sexual partners are extroverts - not always, but often - if you are an introvert, it's much harder to get to know you and sometimes it means it's harder to have that instant attraction as a result. Or maybe she didn't like you because she thought you didn't like her. Also, in my experience attraction that builds under the surface slowly has much more substance. That 'ride off to the sunset' thing is a kid's fantasy. I'm kind of surprised you feel this way after reading your posts in the past. 2
Emilia Posted May 29, 2014 Posted May 29, 2014 Women can dress it up as they like, but from my male perspective anyway, if a lady is willing to give herself to a guy on the spot (because her desire for him is so strong), yet waits weeks and months to be willing to do the same with me, that reflects a lot better on him than it does on myself. Your lack of success with women is a reflection of your lack of understanding of how we think. If you dismiss our posts because they don't tally exactly with your negative opinions, you will never learn. I'm always amazed by this attitude on a messaging board, what's the point of your being there then? One thing I was also going to add yesterday was that most women have ONS/casual sex when they are really young and quite naive. Often they would want to carry on seeing that guy they've just slept with. They learn as they get older that getting to know him first is best. So what you see is a smarter approach to dating, they stop sleeping with guys straight away, they stop themselves getting caught up in the moment because they learn that a lot of that is just talk from casual sex guys. They start to look for substance in men. It's something that takes a while to learn and get better at. A woman has to be good at looking beyond a man's words since he will promise lots of things for sex. In the end, in my experience at least, very few actually deliver what they talk about. Partly because they lack self-awareness and believe their own hype, partly because they lie. There are women that continue with something casual into their 30s and 40s as a choice but they are still a minority. 4
Candy_Pants Posted May 29, 2014 Posted May 29, 2014 Hi , married lady here, my H has a number close to yours but for different reasons. Mine is closer to your wife's. For me, I began having truly (knowingly) casual sex only a few years before reconnecting with my H. I got tired of being lied to and deceived, so I took things into my own hands. My H only had one ONS and he regretted it. For him sex was/is something very special. He says otherwise but I know he's "bothered" by my sexual past as well. Not because he's thinking "why couldn't I get casual sex", but moreso "why did she pick me". Both questions, yours and his, have many different answers. None of which you'll accept unless it springs forth from your own mind.
dichotomy Posted May 29, 2014 Posted May 29, 2014 (edited) Well, Dichotomy. I tried doing what you told me by being up front about my experience, but not betraying anything about the insecurities. I laughed along with her teasing. I said to bull**** her (lie) if you have to....and pretend to be a stud and da man. I told you if she liked having sex with you - and you her - to drop this issue - and limit your conversations about your numbers and ONS abilities - to us or your shrink. Her response was unfortunate but not unheard of or unexpected - she shamed and diminished your sexual rank publicly...I fear a dynamic in your marriage has changed and I have a feeling I know how the rest of this is going to play out. If you have read some books, then benefit from this - expressing sexual weakness, insecurities, or that your not "sexy" for her (or other women) to have slept with you right away - don't do it ! Don't express self esteem or sex confidence issues in this area to your wife - she will loose confidence and attraction for you. Bull**** if you have to - but act sexually confident and secure. Talk about it on this board - or with a buddy - or a shrink - but not to your wife ok?Act like da man - the stud with your wife. Edited May 29, 2014 by dichotomy
Revolver Posted May 29, 2014 Posted May 29, 2014 Well There's an idea that women have casual sex and hookups with hot or charismatic or popular guys and relationships with safe boring regular guys. So if a guy never "hooked up" the first thing that comes to mind is "no female ever saw me in that animalistic, I want to rip his clothes off, I just met him but who cares" type of light. I would argue the average guy gets a bigger ego/confidence boost from hooking up then sex in the context of a relationship
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