Author 68_f100 Posted May 23, 2014 Author Posted May 23, 2014 How long have you been sober? 5 days. But I would drink around a case a week. A couple every night after work and a few more on weekends. I think the issue for here was not how much but that I did it every night. If it is a problem for her then it was a problem for me. I did this for 6-7 months before she said anything about it. I know 5 days isn't long but I have no desire to drink. I don't even know why I did it. Beer doesn't taste good.
2sunny Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 You need to get to the root of why you drank. Individual counseling may help you. Are you getting support? Doing AA?
janedoe67 Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 I am not one to toss out polygraph suggestions left and right. But in this case, I think it is a good idea. It will put your mind finally at rest one way or the other. Ad if she IS telling the truth, then this "what if" cloud won't be forever hanging over your marriage. If that cloud was hanging over me because I was lying, that would be one thing. But if that cloud was hanging over me when I was telling the truth, and my spouse just wouldn't let it go, I'd be BEGGING for a polygraph. And then, to be honest, depending on how much of a jerk he had been, after the poly proved my honesty, I'd be thinking long and hard about whether I wanted to be with HIM. 2
Author 68_f100 Posted May 23, 2014 Author Posted May 23, 2014 I am not one to toss out polygraph suggestions left and right. But in this case, I think it is a good idea. It will put your mind finally at rest one way or the other. Ad if she IS telling the truth, then this "what if" cloud won't be forever hanging over your marriage. If that cloud was hanging over me because I was lying, that would be one thing. But if that cloud was hanging over me when I was telling the truth, and my spouse just wouldn't let it go, I'd be BEGGING for a polygraph. And then, to be honest, depending on how much of a jerk he had been, after the poly proved my honesty, I'd be thinking long and hard about whether I wanted to be with HIM. See that's where I have a problem. If I force her into a poly or come hat here with take it or divorce it could hurt her bad if she is telling the truth. It might give me piece of mind and destroy hers. I'm for honesty but not doing further damage for no reason. I chose to stay in this knowing in had my doubts. Nothing stopped me from leaving. It's my second guessing that is causing me to worry.
janedoe67 Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 See that's where I have a problem. If I force her into a poly or come hat here with take it or divorce it could hurt her bad if she is telling the truth. It might give me piece of mind and destroy hers. I'm for honesty but not doing further damage for no reason. I chose to stay in this knowing in had my doubts. Nothing stopped me from leaving. It's my second guessing that is causing me to worry. I still think you should do it. It is rough for you to live in a marriage where you just can't get settled that you can trust her. That's torture. It's also probably tough for her (IF she is telling the truth) to live in a marriage where she knows her husband isn't sure about her. I would sit down and say, "Look, I love you, and I know this may not make much sense to you, but I have to have some peace, and this is eating at me. Would you consider taking a ploy so I can put this nagging doubt to rest once and for all. I can vow to you that this topic will never come up again once I can silence these fears once and for all." 2
jm2013 Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 I think it's just a hard pill for him to process as it should be. As much as he wants to believe his wife didn't do anything it's more likely not the case. Hence the thread. Either way he'll be lugging this around with him in his marriage. It's obvious his wife most likely had the physical affair he doesn't want to hear about. Further, it sounds like she's carrying her own guilt with her and appears to have shown that with some of the stuff OP has said. People handle guilt differently. My wife exhibited much of what your wife is doing to you. And many on this forum will more than likely agree there's a lot more to her story than what she's telling you. Obviously we can't give you the 100% answer you are looking for. These are the grisly details she perhaps thinks she's protecting you and her family from. When you start asking questions like you have it's an automatic defense of theirs to get upset that you'd accuse them of such a thing and also profess they'd never in a million years do that to you or their family. You've seen just about all the proof you need to come to a conclusion of what has most likely happened. It is hard for some to have sex with their spouse with the weight of their secrets. Or perhaps have little to no desire having sex with their spouse cause they are active emotionally and physically with somebody else. I wish you the best OP and hope you find a resolution to your problems sooner than later. 1
Author 68_f100 Posted May 23, 2014 Author Posted May 23, 2014 I can't deny that if it's true it won't hurt. But I have kids that I need to think about. Is it better to have the satisfaction of knowing and potentially tearing my family apart? These days I will do anything for my kids. I am not sure if destroying their lives in the process of trying to make mine better is worth it. Maybe it's better that I suffer with my own demons than cause them grief. That's really what it comes down to. It's not just about me. It's about a family.
Mr. Lucky Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 5 days. Don't think you're in a position to make life-altering decisions. Many of your insecurities and issues may be tied to drinking. Get yourself to a better place - AA and IC - and you may find your wife's sexual reactions to you are more positive also... Mr. Lucky 1
jm2013 Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) I can't deny that if it's true it won't hurt. But I have kids that I need to think about. Is it better to have the satisfaction of knowing and potentially tearing my family apart? These days I will do anything for my kids. I am not sure if destroying their lives in the process of trying to make mine better is worth it. Maybe it's better that I suffer with my own demons than cause them grief. That's really what it comes down to. It's not just about me. It's about a family. It depends on how you look at it. I as well did a lot of drinking in my marriage and worked long hours. I left my wife at home just wondering and probably asking herself why she was even with me. Doing these types of things caused a different type of hurt and a ton of resentment. Sometimes a catastrophe like this isn't always the end. Each person has their own views and capabilities. And only time will make you better understand what you are able to handle emotionally. But I know one thing for sure, if this just gets swept under the rug and you both just go forward like none of this is happening you'll just end up causing more issues and will never fix your problems. I think that "knowing" may perhaps help your marriage grow the way it is needed to move forward correctly if desired. Once you find out the ball is in your court then and you'll have to determine what YOU want to do. Until then keep working on yourself. When I found out about my wife's affair I started to drink heavily and totally avoided the advice that was given to me. Fast forward to now and I have cut drinking out and replaced it with the gym and activities with my kids. No longer am I choosing to self indulge in alcohol or work over my family. And to be honest, working out is way more of a stress relief as well as eating healthier than taking to the bottle. It has helped clear the mind and wake up more refreshed than being hung over and ill the following day. Edited May 23, 2014 by jm2013
Trustnoone Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 I have not posted my story but I will share parts of it with you. I am five months out from d-day so I'm most likely not who you would seek advice from. However maybe you can take away from this what you want and maybe it will help you. Four years ago I was informed my WW may be cheating. I confronted her and she denied. I laid out boundaries just in case what I was told was true. Mistakes 1 & 2. Check. Gut was unsettled. I investigated for a year and a half finding nothing. I drove myself crazy. Fast forward to May 2013. I asked my WW if she was having an affair. WW's reply, you have nothing to worry about. My gut screamed affair. I felt like vomiting. It felt like I was kicked in the chest by a horse. I investigated again. Nothing. I was crazy and finally suggested MC in August of 2013. Me going to therapy is the same as you driving on the interstate blindfolded. Early January 2014 I realized that I had told WW that cheating was a deal breaker to me. She didn't feel safe. January 20, 2014 I sat WW down to talk. I made her feel safe and she gave me the best gift in the world, trickle truth. WW was crying and saying it was an EA. I told her we can talk tomorrow night. January 21, 2014. WW and I sit down to talk. More trickle truth. I then explained about trickle truth and just how cruel I can be. A side of me she had never seen. Within five minutes she caved and I found out it was a PA. She lied. She minimized. Said she only loves me. Not knowing for four years killed me on the inside. From the outside I look alive but dead on the inside. Knowing killed off anything I had left. I was devastated and destroyed in one single moment. Typing this is painful so I will stop. But you need to know if you can live with not knowing. You may say yes now but six months from now this will destroy you. It will have an effect on your kids. I can only say to think this through now. Find a solution that you are willing to accept. You have been given good advice from previous posters. Don't read it, act on it if that is what you want. My story gets worse, my pain is excruciating. 1
lolablue17 Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) You made 2 mistakes. 1. You showed her exactly how much you know. 2. Told her that if she cheated, you're done. You lost hope to have her confession. but i think you dont need her confession. I also dont think you need a polygraph. Trickle truth is the proof you need. When your wife chose to trickle the truth, for me it's a complete incriminating 100% evidence of cheating. Tell her that and start preparing to file. You can mention to her that the only way to stop the process is her to find some creative ways to prove you other than you know for sure. that if this marriage is important to her she is more than welcome to prove it. But till then, you continue with the divorce. Edited May 23, 2014 by lolablue17
Oberfeldwebel Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 f100, I would still recommend that you go to counseling to deal with the emotions. Hopefully in time you can get her to attend as well. What she fails to see is that most folks can't heal by themselves. She knows she has done wrong and therefore sees the counseling as an event where she will have to confront the wrong. This is the last thing she wants to do, she wants it to go away. Every time you inquire about what happened she blame shifts, trickle truths or goes into Ostrich mode, by sticking her head in the sand. This helps her cope, but the relationship will never be whole with this approach. Choosing to stay or go is a question only you can answer and wouldn't fault you either way.
oldshirt Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 I'm to the point of asking for a polygraph or a divorce. No matter how much I try to get past the unanswered questions I can't and faking it isn't going to last much longer. I'm to the point of a polygraph or divorce. I only have one question I want her to answer. Did she have any type of sexual contact with anyone while we were married. If the answer is yes then I don't feel like she deserves this family. As far as intimacy is concerned. It was good for a while but here lately she says she has zero sex drive. Wants to get it over with more than enjoying it and gets mad if I ask her about it. Maybe that's the root of these feelings coming back. I know she is going to try and call my bluff if I offer up the polygraph or divorce. I honestly think she would take divorce over confessing. That's not the type of feelings I should have for her. She won't go to MC as she thinks it's a waste of time and cost to much. Doesn't look good does it. OK I am going to combine this post with the one where you said you have been sober 5 days. This is going to be a long post as this is a very complex case and there's a lot of ground to cover so please be patient and read to the end. Here's the thing - since you were checked out of your marriage and have had this drinking issue, you wife lost attraction and desire for you and your sexlife tanked. What she is doing now is called Duty Sex or possibly even Star Fish sex. You can look both those terms up but basically it means she is putting out to keep you in the house but she has no innate desire or attraction for you of her own at this time. Here's the good news/bad news of this, bad news first - the bad news is the sex sucks so you are having a hard time re-bonding with her. This is making you somewhat bitter and resentful and making you less respectful and less bonded with her and making her more "disposable" to you. This is why you are so adamant about divorcing her if you find out she had sex with these guys. (I mean afterall it makes sense, she's having crappy Star Fish sex with you, so if you find out she was having hot porn star sex with some other dude, she's out. I understand that.) But here is the potential ray of hope here - She is still having sex with you which means she is at least trying at the moment. She's not into it, but she is putting in the effort. That's a positive point even though the sex isn't what either of you are enjoying at the moment. The other ray of hope here is that as you continue to self-improve and work on yourself and work on your relationship her attraction and desire for you MAY improve as well over time. You've only been sober 5 days (more if you haven't fallen off the wagon since you wrote that) And you have only in the last handful of months been working on yourself and working on your marriage. Her desire and her sexual response to you will not flip on like a switch over night just because you are polishing up your behavior for a while. It may take a long time before she has the confidence that your change is real and is permanent rather than just gritting your teeth and playing nice for temporary bit of time. This process may take a year or more depending on how bad your behavior was and how long you were dropping the ball. So where I am going with this is, your sexlife isn't going to good for some time. But as you continue your sobriety and self-improvement, her desire and sexual response may return and may improve. Here are a few other points to ponder - - you will need to continue to self-improve if you hope to have a more satisfactory relationship with her, however you will also need to be squared away and a decent, sober person if you hope to meet someone else down the road if you divorce. In other words you will need to be a good person whether you remain married or divorce either way. - If you lay the " polygraph or divorce" ultimatum on her now, I guarantee you she will take the divorce as sure as the sun will rise in the East in the morning. She has already been through hell with you and was already at the edge of walking away and your self-improvement has only been going on for a short time. She'd be a fool to give in to that demand and not take the divorce at this time. She's not attracted to you now, you give her a clear opportunity at divorce and she will take it. Those other dudes are keeping their beds nice and warm for her. You roll that out with a red carpet and she'd take it. - I think the reason you are so obcessed with wanting to know if she cheated or not is because all this self-improvement is hard work and a part of you wants to know if she is worth the effort or not. If you find out she did cheat, then you'll throw in the towel on the effort. My challenge to you is that you need to do the self-improvement for YOURSELF regardless if she cheated or not. if you find out she did cheat will you start drinking and start being an ass again????????? - That is why I am encouraging you to drop the past and focus on the present and the future. Build yourself to be the best person you can be. - remain vigilant and keep your eyes open and your ear to the ground and if you build yourself into a great person and she cheats, then you have your answer and you kick the bitch to the curb and you find a younger prettier one and move on with your life. - you can only do that if you are sober and have yourself squared away though. You can't do that if you are a drunken A-hole. - you need to straighten yourself out and get squared away regardless, so why not take her for her word today, work on yourself and get yourself the best you can be? That may in time turn your marriage around and she will desire you again and a decent sexlife will return. - and if it doesn't, you will be in a better position to move on without her. - bottomline - my recommendation is to let the past go, focus on improving yourself in the present and in the future. If she responds positively to your changes and your marriage improves and is good then you are hero for working it out and saving the marriage. If it doesn't improve then you have other options you can consider at that time. You may need to give it a good year or so. 1
DKT3 Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 My wife was like a steel trap when it came to did she or didn't she. I played the game for a while then I had enough. I filed for divorce. Once she was served it all came out. Up until that point she felt like she was in full control, as long as she didn't admit to anything she could gaslight me convince me that signs weren't signs and her odd behaviour was normal. I'm not suggesting you take my path, but I believe that women respond to strength and actions, not treats. Don't allow her to rugsweep this, if you do you may as well plan on this to continue in the future. She can handle the conversations and treats, can she handle the strong actions of you taking back control of you life, what you will and will not accept from her. Actions, it may be as simple has packing a bag and telling her her she it ready to be real and honest to let you know. Take a few days away from her with NC. Show actions. Truth is its not a game, this doubt will in time kill your marriage. Be strong, act, and only say what you mean then do it without fear of the fallout. 1
veritas lux mea Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 I still think PA likely didn't happen by those texts if that was te final communication. But I also think it is irrational and being a slave to biology to focus so much on it actually happening when her intent was written on the wall. Easy for her to deny she wouldn't have gone through with it now. But it is obvious she would have. So therefore her intent means she as good as did it. Listen to old shirt. His advice is spot on. 5 days sober while it is a day at a time does not mean you are "better" focus in your path to healing and put this sex obsession aside. 2
oldshirt Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 5 days sober while it is a day at a time does not mean you are "better" focus in your path to healing and put this sex obsession aside. And realize too that your brain and mind just simply do not function properly while you are under the influence of toxins or during the drying out process. You simply aren't firing on all cylinders and your emotions and thought processes aren't functioning properly and pretty much anything you feel and any decisions you make at this time are going to be the wrong ones. My advice is really don't do anything or make any significant decisions until you are completely dried out and not under the influence of any intoxicants and aren't under the influence of any form of withdrawls. 1
Man Mountain Makino Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 I read this thread and my instincts tell me she likely went pretty far, with someone anyway. She rode the baloney pony, that's my feeling on the matter. Sorry bro.
Spectre Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 (edited) Yeah, sorry, your wife has more or less..I'd say at least an 85% chance she banged at least one of these dudes at least once. It is good you are sorting out your issues with drinking and all that, but you need to get her to take a poly. I don't care what problems you guys had, she doesn't get to solve them by boinking other men. You have a right to know if she did or didn't take these things too far. It really seems like she did, so the only way to prove she didn't is to polygraph. Now see, here is the thing..if these texts were just that and nothing more? and nothing physical happened? She'd WANT to take this poly to prove that to you. Since, she told you to "man up" as you said? Okay, this is how you man up: tell her you are going to drive her to get a polygraph today(or whichever day you have this convo with her) and either she can come with and take it..or she can pack her bags. If she truly didn't take this to the physical level she'd be willing to do ANYTHING to prove that to you and save this marriage. If she won't do a poly, she can't be trusted, period. Poly's are no big deal, it won't physically hurt her, she has nothing else to lose and refusing to take one is just as good as saying "I banged one of these dudes". So yes, take her advice..man up and tell her this is how it is going to be: polygraph, or she hits the road. If she passes the poly? Good, great, you guys go get some counseling and solve the rest of your issues. She doesn't? Well, now you know and you can kick her to the curb. There will be no other way to solve this. Some people are asking you to focus on the present and not the past, which is real easy to say..except, you can't focus on the present until you know the truth about the past. That is how we humans learn. So yes, focus on the present..by finding out if your wife truly got physical with these guys. If she did? You can then focus on a future where she is not your wife. If she didn't..you can focus on a future where..maybe you guys patch things up in counseling? Either way, the past is then in the past, etc but yeah, you do not just drop the subject and pretend everything is okay, because that never ever actually makes anything okay. That is like putting a band aid on a gunshot wound. Sure you are technically doing something to try to aid the wound, but it doesn't help much..does it? Edited May 25, 2014 by Spectre 3
Author 68_f100 Posted May 27, 2014 Author Posted May 27, 2014 I think I am going with Oldshirt on this. At least for a while. I am still not drinking and honesty have no desire at all. I am gong to continue to try and improve myself and my relationship with my wife. I want my kids to grow up in a good stable home. I think thats most important to me.
bigman1 Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 68, I think that you need to define what you mean by "stable home" for your kids. I am not suggesting one path or another, but many times people use phrases like "stability" to hide behind a concept without any real meaning or to avoid making unpleasant decisions. Will your home be "stable" if your wife continues her misbehavior? If so, how? Will it be "stable" if you start resenting her and things get tense? Will it be stable, if she elects to leave with some random guy? That is like building a house on a brittle foundation. One day, it will come crashing down, then what? A lot of posters use the children as an excuse not to take definitive action, what ever that action happens to be. "Stable" is more than just being in home with both parents who love them. Heck, I have known kids to grow up in homes where both parents loved them, but one was an alcoholic/drug addict: Not stable. I have known kids from homes where dad beat mom, but loved the kids: Not stable. ZI have known kids who grew up in a home where dad was a cheater, but loved them: Not stable. In all of those cases, the kids were damaged. Nothing like hearing an adult say, "I wished by parents had just divorced when I was a kid" or "why did my mom stay with him." I'm not suggesting that you divorce with these examples, just telling you stories from personal friends of mine. Once you define stable, not in a way that avoids dealing with the unpleasantness of your situation, but in a true and complete way, you will have some decisions to make. Good luck to you.
Author 68_f100 Posted May 27, 2014 Author Posted May 27, 2014 68, I think that you need to define what you mean by "stable home" for your kids. I am not suggesting one path or another, but many times people use phrases like "stability" to hide behind a concept without any real meaning or to avoid making unpleasant decisions. Will your home be "stable" if your wife continues her misbehavior? If so, how? Will it be "stable" if you start resenting her and things get tense? Will it be stable, if she elects to leave with some random guy? That is like building a house on a brittle foundation. One day, it will come crashing down, then what? A lot of posters use the children as an excuse not to take definitive action, what ever that action happens to be. "Stable" is more than just being in home with both parents who love them. Heck, I have known kids to grow up in homes where both parents loved them, but one was an alcoholic/drug addict: Not stable. I have known kids from homes where dad beat mom, but loved the kids: Not stable. ZI have known kids who grew up in a home where dad was a cheater, but loved them: Not stable. In all of those cases, the kids were damaged. Nothing like hearing an adult say, "I wished by parents had just divorced when I was a kid" or "why did my mom stay with him." I'm not suggesting that you divorce with these examples, just telling you stories from personal friends of mine. Once you define stable, not in a way that avoids dealing with the unpleasantness of your situation, but in a true and complete way, you will have some decisions to make. Good luck to you. Up to this point our kids have no idea anything is going on. I have worked so hard to build the relationship I have with them over the past year. Thank god they don't hold a grudge. If she decides to leave then thats her choice and one to explain to the kids. I know how much they love their mom and I'm willing to put my own emotional baggage on the back burner for them. My wife and I get along fine these days as long as I don't bring up sex or our relationship. I know that sounds bad but I can deal with it for my kiddos.
bigman1 Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 Thanks for replying, but you did not answer the question at all. Seriously, I re-read your answer and you absolutely avoided an answer. I did not ask you what crap you were willing to put up with. I did not ask you how have your kids been doing so far. I asked you to define what a stable home was. You used that phrase earlier when you said that you wanted that for your kids. Please re-read my post that you quoted and kindly answer the question. Better yet, I will ask you some questions and you can answer them. Is a stable home one where one parent cheats on the other? Is a stable home one where the kids learn to to accept dishonesty from one member just to keep the peace? How will that affect them in their future relationships? Is it a good example to teach the kids that marriage vows are allowed to be broken? Is it good for the kids to watch one parent give up on having a properly fulfilled life so that everyone else in the family can live a life based on lies and dishonesty? Is it a good example for the kids to know that being with someone is far more important than being with someone that respects them? how will this affect your daughters, if you have any? I don't mean to be harsh, but in my line of work, I see far too many people whose lives are so screwed up because some parent made foolish decisions and said that they did it "for them, the children". Please don't hide behind your kids. If you are too afraid to leave, then own that. Don't put it on your kids. Believe me, one day you will tell them that you made these decisions for them and that is going to mess with their heads even more. Nothing like believing your crappy childhood was your fault. Sorry for being in your face, but... I am sorry for your pain, but deal with it honestly. If you love her too much to change things, just admit it. So many have been where you are and they will understand and help you. Peace.
Author 68_f100 Posted May 27, 2014 Author Posted May 27, 2014 Thanks for replying, but you did not answer the question at all. Seriously, I re-read your answer and you absolutely avoided an answer. I did not ask you what crap you were willing to put up with. I did not ask you how have your kids been doing so far. I asked you to define what a stable home was. You used that phrase earlier when you said that you wanted that for your kids. Please re-read my post that you quoted and kindly answer the question. Better yet, I will ask you some questions and you can answer them. Is a stable home one where one parent cheats on the other? Is a stable home one where the kids learn to to accept dishonesty from one member just to keep the peace? How will that affect them in their future relationships? Is it a good example to teach the kids that marriage vows are allowed to be broken? Is it good for the kids to watch one parent give up on having a properly fulfilled life so that everyone else in the family can live a life based on lies and dishonesty? Is it a good example for the kids to know that being with someone is far more important than being with someone that respects them? how will this affect your daughters, if you have any? I don't mean to be harsh, but in my line of work, I see far too many people whose lives are so screwed up because some parent made foolish decisions and said that they did it "for them, the children". Please don't hide behind your kids. If you are too afraid to leave, then own that. Don't put it on your kids. Believe me, one day you will tell them that you made these decisions for them and that is going to mess with their heads even more. Nothing like believing your crappy childhood was your fault. Sorry for being in your face, but... I am sorry for your pain, but deal with it honestly. If you love her too much to change things, just admit it. So many have been where you are and they will understand and help you. Peace. Our kids don't see any of this. We don't fight infront of them. We get along fine in front of them. As far as the kids and my wife know we don't have any issues. We are both loving parents who make sure the kids have everything they need not want. We teach them value honesty and good manners. They are responsible well behaves kids who are very happy. That tells me they have a stable home.
bigman1 Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 I don't get why you chose not to answer ANY of the questions that I posed. I have my suspicions, but that is for a later time. As I see it, you think that your kids are oblivious to this and will remain so for the rest of their childhood. You and your wife are experts at keeping up appearances and will do so for the rest of your marriage. Good luck with that, seriously.
Spectre Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 So I have to ask..are you doing the poly or not? I realize you are drying out from drinking, but with this issue I would say the sooner the better, you don't want to let the wound fester too long do you? Since from the way you talk it almost seems like you are more or less just going to forget about what happened and not bring it up with her again unless she does something like this again.
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