I dont know how to ever be "ready" for a commitment again.

[kaylan]

You can look at this in two ways, or a combination of these two ways;

 

1. I guess this dude just has commitment issues like a typical guy.

 

2. Maybe hes just realistic about most people's ability to be loyal.

 

Ok, so I was reading a thread on another forum, and its not unusual to see these kinds of threads on the net. I see threads about infidelity all over the web. If you read that OP you can see how thats a bummer to know a lot of people are just selfish, disingenuous, self serving jackals. Its not just threads online either....I see this stuff out in the real world myself. I see strangers, acquaintances, and even friends of mine sometimes doing this crap to people.

 

Now, as some of our regulars and veterans here know, Im not looking for a relationship at the moment. But there are times when I wonder what itll be like to be in one again, and I start to miss it. However, I think about the state of the mating game, and how rampant deceit and cheating are, that I dont even think its worth it. I start to think that if I want kids, Ill adopt or go surrogate just so I dont get stuck having a woman in my life who wouldnt hold up her end of the bargain.

 

The thing is, I know and accept the fact that relationships arent perfect. I know that marriage isnt always forever, and Im not sure if I even want marriage. But I could be ok with a marriage ending if the relationship just ran its course. Sometimes people grow apart and its time to move on. What I refuse to deal with is the betrayal and selfishness that seems to go hand and hand in marriage. When you read things like "50% of married women cheat" you have to wonder how many really are cheating because we know people wont tell the truth even in anonymous surveys. Then you have to wonder how much of this behavior goes on for folks who arent near marriage yet.

 

I was never really blind to the ills of the dating world. I just usually was like "meh, no bother...Im not in a relationship anyways". But its really disconcerting to sometimes feel like you have a 1 in 2 chance of finding a gal who be loyal to you. Someone who will the gumption to dump you rather than cheat. And then when you add on top of this...all the other factors that go into finding a compatible mate...(age, goals, expectations, likes, dislikes, personality, character, attractiveness, etc, etc, etc)....then it sometimes feels like a crap-shoot in finding someone who fits you. I start to think "damn....its hard enough finding a chick that clicks with me and who I have real chemistry with....but I also gotta worry about a 1 in 2 chance of cheating? Damn brah."

 

I know Im not unique in the fact that Ive never cheated and never will cheat if I decide to commit to someone. I know its not rare that Im someone who will dump the other person if I feel like I want other people. But its hard finding that total package of a good mate it feels like.

 

And trust me, this isnt just some condemnation of women. Its overall frustration at negative behavior that is so rampant in our world. I know some will say that you just have to trust someone...but Im a practical realist...I know the score. Ive seen hoodwinks, and Ive been hoodwinked years ago. The thing that burns me up the most is when I read or hear stories of people who betray and then lie about it indefinitely. So its too hard for me to logically and realistically commit when I know just how selfish people are.

 

In my mind, the only certainty is your own actions. The only truth is your own truth. Because theres really no way to guarantee someone else to do right by you in a commitment. Sometimes I say to myself "I want to be able to free myself of this frame of thought"...but then I think to myself "if I was free from this mode of thinking, Id become susceptible to those that wish to manipulate me."

 

I like where I am, but I also dislike it. Its sorta like a bitter acceptance of this real world.

[Babolat]

I'm about where you are with relationships. No help, I know

[mammasita]

I can understand your hesitation about commitment and I just read a large portion of that woman bashing thread you linked to...... and quite honestly, it's pretty true. I ain't mad at it.

 

I used to be that girl who would flirt with the cute guy at the bar while my date stepped away to the bathroom. I used to drink and kiss other guys while my date wasn't looking. I can say that I have never ever done that while in a serious long term relationship....but I used to be a free bird and have done things quite often while dating.

 

That said, I've grown out of it and wouldn't dream of doing anything like that now. Sure a smile here a flirt there......but going as far as hooking up then going home to my man or the whole cruise scenario. I got that kinda stuff out of my system a loooooong while ago.

 

Just remember 50% are faithful lol

[Quiet Storm]

There are little clues that you can pay attention to. I bet many men looking back saw red flags that were ignored. Avoiding conflict in their friendships or family, lying to people, keeping secrets, seeking excessive validation, sneaky, poor coping skills, creates drama, vindictive, talks bad about their friends, says one thing but does another, breaks promises, impulsive, blames others for their problems, etc. I bet if you avoided women with the above traits, the % would go down to 20%. Of course not all women with those traits would cheat on you, though.

[todreaminblue]

I know that there are people in the world who really just suck.......but then....there are people like , like me,like family i have or friends i make and some even exist as the male species...;0)...as long as you as a person are good and true.......and you also know people who are good and true past and present...there is always hope you will find some person who is right and true for you.....,.best wishes...deb

[kaylan]

I can understand your hesitation about commitment and I just read a large portion of that woman bashing thread you linked to...... and quite honestly, it's pretty true. I ain't mad at it.

 

I used to be that girl who would flirt with the cute guy at the bar while my date stepped away to the bathroom. I used to drink and kiss other guys while my date wasn't looking. I can say that I have never ever done that while in a serious long term relationship....but I used to be a free bird and have done things quite often while dating.

 

That said, I've grown out of it and wouldn't dream of doing anything like that now. Sure a smile here a flirt there......but going as far as hooking up then going home to my man or the whole cruise scenario. I got that kinda stuff out of my system a loooooong while ago.

 

Just remember 50% are faithful lol

I wouldnt call it a woman bashing thread really. Those guys are sharing life experiences...real life experiences...and sharing with other men how theyve seen women behave.

 

Can you blame them for being jaded or upset at such behavior? Theyd be liars if they didnt rightfully tell the honest truth of how some women behave or about how they feel about such behavior. Youve exhibited such behavior from that thread yourself.

 

Flirting and kissing other men while your on a date is straight up disrespectful. And maybe you should keep that to yourself out in the real world. Because many guys will put you in the "never commit to" zone if they hear such things. Doesnt matter if you say youve grown out of it. Many of us believe such behavior would make you prone to bad behavior given the right situation.

 

And I think 50% faithful is a hopeful estimate. Like I said in my OP, we know people lie about their infidelity in surveys. So I think the cheating number is higher honestly.

There are little clues that you can pay attention to. I bet many men looking back saw red flags that were ignored. Avoiding conflict in their friendships or family, lying to people, keeping secrets, seeking excessive validation, sneaky, poor coping skills, creates drama, vindictive, talks bad about their friends, says one thing but does another, breaks promises, impulsive, blames others for their problems, etc. I bet if you avoided women with the above traits, the % would go down to 20%. Of course not all women with those traits would cheat on you, though.

Thats the thing though. Sometimes you just cant know. Some people are just very, very good liars and fakers. Some of the things I read here or on other websites makes my skin crawl. Its even worse when I hear or see these things in the real world.

 

Sure many times folks ignore red flags. But sometimes they were hoodwinked by someone who was just that good.

Edited May 22, 2014 by kaylan

[mammasita]

I wouldnt call it a woman bashing thread really. Those guys are sharing life experiences...real life experiences...and sharing with other men how theyve seen women behave.

 

Can you blame them for being jaded or upset at such behavior? Theyd be liars if they didnt rightfully tell the honest truth of how some women behave or about how they feel about such behavior. Youve exhibited such behavior from that thread yourself.

 

Flirting and kissing other men while your on a date is straight up disrespectful. And maybe you should keep that to yourself out in the real world. Because many guys will put you in the "never commit to" zone if they hear such things. Doesnt matter if you say youve grown out of it. Many of us believe such behavior would make you prone to bad behavior given the right situation.

 

And I think 50% faithful is a hopeful estimate. Like I said in my OP, we know people lie about their infidelity in surveys. So I think the cheating number is higher honestly.

Nope, I don't blame them at all.

 

Eh, I was prone to bad behavior years ago - no denying it. Military, partying, alcohol.

[Leigh 87]

I wouldnt call it a woman bashing thread really. Those guys are sharing life experiences...real life experiences...and sharing with other men how theyve seen women behave.

 

Can you blame them for being jaded or upset at such behavior? Theyd be liars if they didnt rightfully tell the honest truth of how some women behave or about how they feel about such behavior. Youve exhibited such behavior from that thread yourself.

 

Flirting and kissing other men while your on a date is straight up disrespectful. And maybe you should keep that to yourself out in the real world. Because many guys will put you in the "never commit to" zone if they hear such things. Doesnt matter if you say youve grown out of it. Many of us believe such behavior would make you prone to bad .

 

 

 

She should tell her new boyfriends of her past. ..

 

I confessed every crappy thing I'd ever done to my bf. And also my past sexual history. The high numbers, the three some.

 

I have done a lot worse too.

 

I would honestly rather lose a guy who couldn't bring himself to love me for who I am, and find a guy albeit from a smaller pool of men, who is eager to be with me in spite of my past mistakes.

[Quiet Storm]

Thats the thing though. Sometimes you just cant know. Some people are just very, very good liarsand fakers. Someof the things I read here or on other websites makes my skin crawl. Its even worse when I hear or see these things in the real world.

 

Sure many times folks ignore red flags. But sometimes they

 

There are no guarantees in life.

 

Even if my husband left me tomorrow I wouldn't regret it. I have three great kids, happy memories and learned many things from him. I would feel hurt and betrayed, but that wouldn't negate all our years together.

 

There are good liars and fakers, but you could miss out on a once in a lifetime connection. I guess it is simple risk assessment. Is the benefit of a loving partnership worth the risk of them being a cheater? Only you can answer that.

 

For me, I like being his wife. But I would be OK alone, too. I agree, there are a lot of messed up people in this world. Its our unfortunate reality. We all find ways to cope with it. We can play it safe or take chances. We can be detached or be vulnerable. There's always a chance we will be hurt. How far do you go to protect yourself? And by doing that do you rob yourself of the opportunity to truly bond with another person?

[Woggle]

I understand where you are coming from and if I never met my wife I probably wouldn't even bother with relationships. It takes a lot for a woman to earn my trust and I believe she has earned it. I have very good instincts and I think she is the real deal. That being said she gets one chance and if she ever even thinks about betraying me I will drop her in a heartbeat and she knows that. If I caught her cheating on that cruise I would ask to be switched to another room and she would be served divorce papers one we got on land. I don't play that crap.

 

I do believe there are good women but I wish more would be more vocal about this because these women are the reason so many men have no desire to commit and would rather just be players.

[SJC2008]

I don't know I just feel like the majority of society is one big click so I'm starting to see how cheating is so easy and rampant. This may seem like a weird example but IMO it relates: I've never been the greatest at small talk. Sometimes it bothers me and I wish I could get better at it *but* a big part of me does't care for it. I don't care which route you take to school or how you hate traffic or that you haven't been to the gym in a week. My point is that a lot of people talk just to not sit in silence. Anyway, from my perspective it seems like most people are good at it and hit it off with anyone anywhere. Do you see where I'm going with this?

 

Theories aside, people don't have morals and some are very good at hiding their true selves. I have a good friend who will give the shirt of his back to someone but he cheats on his girl. On the further end kf things I know people (through mutual friends) that would screw your girl in the next room if you were passed out drunk. This js the world we live in. Bothe sexes bkame each other and both are to blame. It's no wonder that people are emotionally unavailable and afraid to commit.

[kaylan]

You know what,

 

Sometimes I think I get more honesty out of certain posters here than what I could get from women in real life. Why do I say this if its so easy and common for people to lie online?

 

I say what I said because when you read certain posts here and converse with certain posters...you get a certain kind of opening up thats raw and unfiltered. Why do I think this? Because...some stranger online that you will likely never ever meet, has less reason to lie to you than a person who needs to be in your good graces in order to obtain your companionship.

 

Now, am I saying you can trust strangers on a forum such as this more than you could strangers youre getting to know in real life? Not exactly. Im saying theres a possibility that you obtain more honesty and transparency from those who have less to gain from you.

[Leigh 87]

Kaylan,

 

A lot of people will choose to go after what they want; they have no incentive to be honest since they know it will limit their dating options.

 

It can be simple, white lies such as omitting their past when their partner hasn't actually requested full disclosure of both past and present.... However, sadly, many people will lie about much bigger things. For instance, people who want a primary relationship with a side piece will pretend they just want a monogamous relationship. People in that position know that there are very few people who will agree to a monogamous relationship whereby their PARTNER is expected to be loyal while THEY are aloud to mess around with other people on the side. They lie to get what they want since they know there is no other option. In their minds......

 

It comes down to putting their own desires before other peoples feelings.

 

Many people tell themselves that they are not hurting anyone; they simply want a loving relationship at home while they get side action.

 

Many cheaters and liars genuinely believe they are doing nothing wrong.

 

I personally opt for full disclosure as I feel much better about myself and significantly MORE satisfied when I know a man is 100% in love with me, including my pasts and all the dirty secrets which I would never opt to tell friends or family about.

[Andy_K]

So let's take the 50% figure at face value.

 

Here's the question I ask myself:

"Do I believe I'm going to be attracted to and date a girl who has below average morals?"

 

Hell no! I'm going to be dating someone whose personality is in the upper 50%, for sure. I specifically look for traits like empathy, being good with kids and animals, general kindness and thoughtfulness, that sort of thing. And I'm a pretty good judge of character. The chances of such a girl I pick out being in the lower 50% of the morals bracket? Zero. Not gonna happen.

 

Therefore it's not a coin flip whether I get cheated on or not. It's a certainty that I won't. I don't need to worry about it. I don't need to see a relationship as a gamble.

 

You can do the same.

[Spirit1985]

I know exactly how you feel, it's the same for women, although I think its worse for women because men tend to cheat more. I suppose you just got to have faith and trust in your next GF, you should be able to tell if shes genuine or not. Women want to fall in love and have the whole fairytale so I'm guessing if/when they cheat it'll be a one off mistake or because she doesn't feel loved by you. If she feels loved and adored by you, she'll probably never put herself in that kind of situation. Men on the other hand (and I'm speaking about the majority here) tend to cheat alot more times when they're in a relationship (for whatever reason). I think the world needs to be alot more open and honest about the whole situation. If we all try get secure and happy within ourselves (as individuals) then we'd be able to deal with mistrust and infidelity alot better and it probably won't happen as much. If I was married and my husband cheated, sure I'd be upset and angry, but I'd rather try and understand why he did it. Maybe there might of been signs he was unhappy that I didn't pick up on. I don't know, but you get what I mean. I think we all need to get real about the whole monogamy thing by working on ourselves first. If we're not the best we can be by alone, how can we expect to have the best relationship.

[kaylan]

I know exactly how you feel, it's the same for women, although I think its worse for women because men tend to cheat more. I suppose you just got to have faith and trust in your next GF, you should be able to tell if shes genuine or not. Women want to fall in love and have the whole fairytale so I'm guessing if/when they cheat it'll be a one off mistake or because she doesn't feel loved by you. If she feels loved and adored by you, she'll probably never put herself in that kind of situation.

Did you read that thread I linked at all? Have you talked to women before who have cheated?

 

PLENTY of them cheat just to get their rocks off and even if they have good men waiting at home. Many cheating women are simply selfish. Dont try to make excuses for them by shifting fault onto how their men make them feel.

 

If THE WOMAN chooses to cheat, SHE is at fault in those situations.

Men on the other hand (and I'm speaking about the majority here) tend to cheat alot more times when they're in a relationship (for whatever reason). I think the world needs to be alot more open and honest about the whole situation. If we all try get secure and happy within ourselves (as individuals) then we'd be able to deal with mistrust and infidelity alot better and it probably won't happen as much. If I was married and my husband cheated, sure I'd be upset and angry, but I'd rather try and understand why he did it. Maybe there might of been signs he was unhappy that I didn't pick up on. I don't know, but you get what I mean. I think we all need to get real about the whole monogamy thing by working on ourselves first. If we're not the best we can be by alone, how can we expect to have the best relationship.

You are very naive if you believe women dont cheat as much as men. Trust me, women do it just as much, and usually hide it much better from their partners.

 

And it seems to me that you dont place a lot of accountability on the betraying partner. Im the kind of guy to kick a girl to the curb immediately for cheating. Sounds like you would rather try and find faults in yourself and forgive a cheating partner.

 

I dont think thats the best course at all. But to each their own.

Edited May 22, 2014 by kaylan

[Leigh 87]

wow I just read that thread from the other forum....

 

It's really disgusting.

 

I honestly don't know where those women get off just going on a cruise and... spreading their legs for new men. How can they claim to truly love and care for their partners? I am not sure how they manage to go back to their "boyfriends" and continue as normal. Like......

 

Why can't they just go home and masturbate to their fantasies like a decent woman?

 

Me and my two best female friends would never just.... get our slut on just because we went on a cruise without our boyfriends. One of these girls cannot shut up about how much she misses her damn boyfriend every 5 minutes whenever she is even away from him for a WEEK. The other girl is religious and frowns upon people who do crappy things and have bad morals.

 

I think people like that are surely wired a little differently to me. I only date men I am really into. Since I only date men I truly like, I end up falling in love. The sort of love where I care deeply for my partner. The thought of my partner being hurt makes me sick. He is precious to me, his feelings are paramount. I feel sickened at he thought of.... HOW my partner would feel about me cheating on him.

 

It just doesn't seem worth it to do something that you KNOW would truly crush the person you supposedly love more than anything. These women can't be truly in love in my honest opinion........

 

I don't blame Kaylan and other men for being iffy about dating. Some women are skanks. There are no two ways about it or eloquent ways to describe these low lifes..

[Leigh 87]

PLENTY of them cheat just to get their rocks off j.

 

 

Yep Kaylan, I know a girl who said: I aspire to have an affair. How exciting

 

 

She was 16 when she said it.