Exposing the Affair

[fellini]

Well, I disagree with the implication of this post, and I was not suggesting what it's implying. True, it's not about controlling other people. However it IS about controlling your own life. You set the rules and people in our lives either follow them or get out. Other wise you are a doormat. If a man cheats again, I guess that's the tell tale sign of whether they truly took the BS seriously or not.

 

True, it's not about controlling other people.

 

You set the rules and people in our lives either follow them or get out.

So it is about controlling other people

 

Other wise you are a doormat. So it is about being controlled by other people

 

If a man cheats again, I guess that's the tell tale sign of whether they truly took the BS seriously or not. So is it or isn't it about controlling other people?

 

I have never seen so many confusing and contradictory ideas about what a BS can ever do about a WS!

 

If you cannot control other people, why do we set down rules that THEY MUST FOLLOW or end of M?

If, we set down rules, and a man steps out again - what has that got to do with the BS? OHHHHH, the BS set down rules which the WS didn't follow so now the BS is a dormat to the WS, and it's their fault.... that the WS didn't abide by the rules made by another?

 

How about the WS cheated. The BS reconciled. The WS cheated again.

NONE of this has anything to do with the "rules set down" because the first time he cheated, he broke his VOWS, and the second time, he broke a "set of rules". NEVER is the BS responsible for this, and being the BS in an A is not being a DORMAT. Being a dormat would require the WS to tell the BS, screw you, im going out to screw the first woman I can pick up in a bar, and do NOTHING ABOUT IT.

[fellini]

I took a bit of a different approach when I was a BS . I did NOT expose (mostly because I didn't want people feeling sorry for me). I did, however want to know if the affair was over or not. So, strategically, I hit him where it would get his attention.

 

So, I presented him with a quit claim for our home. Told him if he was serious about affair being over and moving forward with me to sign over the house. He complied.

 

I did that in the early days, with custody. Believing rightly that my WS was trickle truthing and gaslighting me during months, I proposed that if she wanted to end my constant badgering her for details about the A, that all she had to do was to sign a paper saying that if she ever had more social contact with AP that we would separate, and I would continue to live in the house with our daughter (actually believing that she would be happier with me considering how little her mother had been around during her year long A). The house is a property, but custody is a different matter. I wanted to know that if she was so willing to lose everything for a stupid A, that any future occurrence was precisely the same thing, only the consequence would be signed by her.

 

She said she would sign it. But then started asking about the details of what this meant, did that mean, am I sure it's legal. And I just looked at her and said: Never mind the paper, you have just destroyed it's value by showing me you still consider your AP an option for you and you are more worried about losing your AP than your daughter.

 

Today I continue to ask for this letter, and continue to get avoidance strategies.

 

Funny thing is I never intend to hold her to the letter, her signing it would have given me precisely the gesture I needed to see that she was emotionally back in the marriage and not merely playing damage control and keeping her options - remote as they are "open".

 

I understand this is the strategy of a narcissist. Never fully give up power over anyone, under any circumstances, EVEN if you know "it's over, it's not going to happen again, it's not an option", never fully disconnect.

[HermioneG]

Well, I disagree with the implication of this post, and I was not suggesting what it's implying. True, it's not about controlling other people. However it IS about controlling your own life. You set the rules and people in our lives either follow them or get out. Other wise you are a doormat. If a man cheats again, I guess that's the tell tale sign of whether they truly took the BS seriously or not.

 

I must have misunderstood what you said.

 

Did you not say "whip him into shape" in a previous post to me? You did, here:

 

"Good move. Gotta go read your story to see if you whipped him into shape when he was groveling or if you cut him loose."

 

And what am I implying? I'm pretty direct. I say what I mean, I don't imply. LOL

Edited May 21, 2014 by HermioneG

[katielee]

When the WS is in affair fog, you're dealing with someone under the influence, so to speak. Take their drug away, enough for them to get some clarity and THEN they make decisions.

Until they are free and clear of their addiction, they probaby don't know which way is up. That said, still perfectly acceptable to leave someone who does this. It's their job to be a healthy adult who doesn't hurt other people.

We reconcile because sometimes we know that isn't the real person in there. My husband had 25 years of being a mature adult. I wanted to stay to see if he could pull himself back off the cliff.

I did it. I assumed he could to.

But you bet I did everything to stop the affair. People leave spouses and ok marriages for affair partners that usually lead to disaster. There were children involved.

Once the wayward is out of the fog they usually realize how stupid they were and they are grateful their spouse gave them another chance.

[fellini]

I would find it very hard to try to reconcile with a spouse if I thought even for a second that the only reason they stopped the affair was because I exposed it and sort of "shamed them into it". I'm not saying this is what your spouses did those who posted here but I would be really uncomfortable with that. I didn't ask my ex husband to stop the affair, I just made my decision. Granted I had been wanting to leave for a while. I guess my next question to those who exposed to force the affair to stop, do you ever worry that this is the only reason it stopped? That you manipulated the outcome in some sort of way by forcing societal shame to keep them in a line that without it they may not have chosen? (again, I'm not saying that's what is happening, but I would worry about it. I wanted my ex husband to do what he wanted to do not what he felt forced to do by me or whomever)

 

I agree. And I think some of the responses here indicate a slight misunderstanding of what you are saying.

 

In my case my WS laid it on me to deal with. I asked her about a google page on the "psychology of infidelity" I found one day on her Ipad (she had forgotten to close the page properly) and I was the next person to open it.

 

Her response was a bit evasive, but within 2 minutes she just came out and said "Im seeing someone else". She didn't have any plan about what the purpose of telling me was. I asked her if she was prepared to end it now, and the answer was neither yes nor no. Within an hour it was yes. But later I learned that it was yes because of panic, desperation, of seeing her entire world fall apart, of fear I would disclose her horrible betrayal to everyone... in short all the things she should have thought about, were now pressing against her.

 

I thought her yes meant she was choosing me over him. Just what any BS 1 hour into dday wants to hear.

 

The fact that it was me that "forced" her to go NC, to end the affair, to push the resolution sooner than she was ready for it has meant a lot of difficulty for reconciliation, because there are too many unanswered and unanswerable questions about the meaning of the affair.

 

Was she going to end it? Or did she need only a few more weeks to make the decision to leave the marriage? What problems occurred not having proper "closure" for her?

 

I think its a significant difference when a WS throws their marriage under the bus as the result of a developing EA/PA than throws their AP under the bus looking at their BS for 5 seconds and making a split decision.

 

The 6 months ensuing this A showed me just how damaging it was to discover the A the way I did, and to be part of the decision to end it, how to end it, and all the doubts and questions about the validity of those decisions along the way. I understand your point when you ask

 

"I guess my next question to those who exposed to force the affair to stop, do you ever worry that this is the only reason it stopped? That you manipulated the outcome in some sort of way by forcing societal shame to keep them in a line that without it they may not have chosen?"

 

because it became VERY clear to me that most of her initial desire to agree to end the A was to save her professional arse from the potential exposure. This for me is a very painful lesson that seriously makes it difficult to separate genuine reconciliation from a kind of forced resignation that the jig is up and now it's all about damage control and rebuilding personal dignity.

Edited May 21, 2014 by fellini

[WasOtherWoman]

I did that in the early days, with custody. Believing rightly that my WS was trickle truthing and gaslighting me during months, I proposed that if she wanted to end my constant badgering her for details about the A, that all she had to do was to sign a paper saying that if she ever had more social contact with AP that we would separate, and I would continue to live in the house with our daughter (actually believing that she would be happier with me considering how little her mother had been around during her year long A). The house is a property, but custody is a different matter. I wanted to know that if she was so willing to lose everything for a stupid A, that any future occurrence was precisely the same thing, only the consequence would be signed by her.

 

She said she would sign it. But then started asking about the details of what this meant, did that mean, am I sure it's legal. And I just looked at her and said: Never mind the paper, you have just destroyed it's value by showing me you still consider your AP an option for you and you are more worried about losing your AP than your daughter.

 

Today I continue to ask for this letter, and continue to get avoidance strategies.

 

Funny thing is I never intend to hold her to the letter, her signing it would have given me precisely the gesture I needed to see that she was emotionally back in the marriage and not merely playing damage control and keeping her options - remote as they are "open".

 

I understand this is the strategy of a narcissist. Never fully give up power over anyone, under any circumstances, EVEN if you know "it's over, it's not going to happen again, it's not an option", never fully disconnect.

 

Completely understand, good move. I did wind up divorcing my then husband and did not hold him to the quit claim either, although legally I could have. Well, ok, I did agree to split 60-40... his affair needed to cost him something besides me.

[WasOtherWoman]

When the WS is in affair fog, you're dealing with someone under the influence, so to speak. Take their drug away, enough for them to get some clarity and THEN they make decisions.

 

I have to say that I vehemently disagree with the concept of an affair fog not making people responsible for their actions (as "under the influence" implies to me).

 

Any new relationship that someone is "into" will bring about the feelings of joy and euphoria and whatever other happy words we want to use. Those feelings are not specific to an affair relationship.

 

When my then husband cheated on me years back, he was fully aware of beginning an inappropriate relationship, he was fully aware, as he walked down the hallway of her hotel what he was doing, fully aware as they entered her room, undressed, etc etc.

 

Fully.aware. Affair fog does not absolve someone of knowing right from wrong. When I was an OW I experienced those same "foggy feelings" at the start of our relationship. I don't give myself a pass. I was fully aware of what I was doing AND that it was wrong. I didn't stop me from doing it, but I knew it was wrong and that there could be potential consequences.

 

I just don't accept this "affair fog" thing... from any sides of the triangle.

[Snowflower]

I have to say that I vehemently disagree with the concept of an affair fog not making people responsible for their actions (as "under the influence" implies to me).

 

Any new relationship that someone is "into" will bring about the feelings of joy and euphoria and whatever other happy words we want to use. Those feelings are not specific to an affair relationship.

 

When my then husband cheated on me years back, he was fully aware of beginning an inappropriate relationship, he was fully aware, as he walked down the hallway of her hotel what he was doing, fully aware as they entered her room, undressed, etc etc.

 

Fully.aware. Affair fog does not absolve someone of knowing right from wrong. When I was an OW I experienced those same "foggy feelings" at the start of our relationship. I don't give myself a pass. I was fully aware of what I was doing AND that it was wrong. I didn't stop me from doing it, but I knew it was wrong and that there could be potential consequences.

 

I just don't accept this "affair fog" thing... from any sides of the triangle.

 

Good post but I disagree with you.

 

This might be a bit of threadjack but the affair fog can have an influence on how/when the affair is exposed so I will try to tie it together.

 

Of course the affair fog doesn't absolve anyone from their choices and actions in an affair. I'm not sure why this keeps coming up as an issue?

 

The fog is definitely an issue in most affairs however. The WS is all caught up in the dynamics of the affair, being selfish to the extreme and often irrational. Call it 'fog' call it 'irrational thinking' call it having your (general you) head shoved up where, well you know, but this type of behavior is common during an affair.

 

As a BS trying to expose the A, you have to contend with your WS being in some type of alternate reality (i.e., the affair fog).

 

Again, the affair fog doesn't excuse anything but it is something to be contended with.

 

Few BS's or anyone else will excuse their WS actions because they were in the fog. Let's put that idea to rest, please!

 

My H was definitely acting pretty irrationally during his A. He acted like an a** and in ways I never I thought him capable of behaving. So yeah, I could say he was in some type of fog. But I never excused his nasty behavior and the choices he made because of it.

 

So, when reality hits the BS by the BS exposing the A, it can often help dissipate that foggy thinking.

[fellini]

I sort of agree. I believe there is affair fog. What I disagree with is the effect it has on our ability to know right from wrong. In that I you and I very much agree: it does not absolve the WS of anything.

 

I am absolutely convinced that my WS had affair fog. No one in their "right mind" would enter into an affair at her workplace that had NO PLACE TO GO BUT A PERSONAL DISASTER. But there they were. The two of them behaving like teenagers doing their thing and thinking they won't get caught and not dealing with the implications of what the fall out would be WHEN (not IF) it came to light. I do believe affair fog allows people to see the relationship, the bubble, as it is also called, NOT for what it is, a bubble about to burst, but a genuine relationship. I think that is where the fog begins and ends.

 

I know that the FOG met the real world several times for my WS, and at one point she was asked: are you prepared to lose your husband and daughter, to which her only reply was: I am not prepared to lose him.

 

Did she know she was tossing her marriage out the window, by having an affair with a colleague, and that disclosure of this in her workplace would RUIN HER as a human being for the rest of her life: yes.

Did she know that the affair fog was preventing her from using her skills to properly weigh her future, no.

Did it bother her that disclosure would ruin her life? NO, not while she was in the fog.

Did it the full weight of everything she had done become suddenly clear to her once the bubble was burst? Yes. Like an avalanche.

 

Not sure I captured the "tension" of this issue, but more or less I believe it exists, but I also believe it is not relevant, or an excuse, for blindness about what one is actually doing.

 

 

 

I have to say that I vehemently disagree with the concept of an affair fog not making people responsible for their actions (as "under the influence" implies to me).

 

Any new relationship that someone is "into" will bring about the feelings of joy and euphoria and whatever other happy words we want to use. Those feelings are not specific to an affair relationship.

 

When my then husband cheated on me years back, he was fully aware of beginning an inappropriate relationship, he was fully aware, as he walked down the hallway of her hotel what he was doing, fully aware as they entered her room, undressed, etc etc.

 

Fully.aware. Affair fog does not absolve someone of knowing right from wrong. When I was an OW I experienced those same "foggy feelings" at the start of our relationship. I don't give myself a pass. I was fully aware of what I was doing AND that it was wrong. I didn't stop me from doing it, but I knew it was wrong and that there could be potential consequences.

 

I just don't accept this "affair fog" thing... from any sides of the triangle.

[WasOtherWoman]

Hm... ok. (and thanks for the clarification, Snowflake, that helped).

 

Maybe the fact it just that, with "affair fog" comes greater consequences. I still believe there is a fog, of sorts, with every new relationship. How many of you have stayed up till 3 am with your new partner, talking, fully caught up in the excitement of this new couplehood? Knowing full well that you will need to get up in three hours for work? My now husband used to travel all over creation to see me when we were in our affair, just to be able to spend the night with me. Despite the fact that it meant very little sleep and huge expense for him. All pretty small consequences.

 

I guess "affair fog" just has greater consequences, the risk of a marriage. Where, "regular fog" does not really come with severe consequences....

 

edited: as long as we are not arguing that the fog makes someone do something, or that folks are not responsible for what they do in the fog, I can concede that a fog of sort exists, but still contend it exists in any new relationship and is not exclusive to affairs. The consequences thereof are what differentiates the types of "fog".

[janedoe67]

I was caught up in feelings. I was not unaware of reality OR of what I was doing. I also did not suddenly acquire dissociative identity disorder.

 

I believe exposure can be an effective tool to stop an A. I believe workplace exposure can be an effective accountability tool if the AP/WS worked together. I believe family and close friends can be a means of support.

 

There is ZERO reason except plain old "get 'em" to expose to entire friends' lists, take out an ad, call everyone on the contact list, tell everyone in the zumba class, etc. AND once the A has ended, exposing to all those peripheral people AFTER the fact is just stupid.

[MissBee]

The topic has come up several times and I'm curious about if there is a difference between "exposure to stop the affair" and simply telling your friends/family in order to get support? It appears as if the two are different things with different reasons behind them.

 

If my spouse were having an affair and I found out, I'd immediately tell my sister and bestfriend, because I'd be in such a state of shock and would need someone to talk to about it and those 2 are the people who know EVERYTHING about me, they know me best and are the least judgmental and most reasonable people and I trust them immensely. The choice to tell them wouldn't be anything to do with getting him to stop...I actually don't even understand what that means, I mean if a dday happens, at that point he's gonna have to make his choice as I surely will be making my own!

 

But just from my own personal experiences, which influences all of us and how we handle situations, having a serial cheating dad and a mom who spent time calling OW to talk to them and putting recorders in his car and keyloggers and all this...I really don't have the time. It didn't help her and he still did what he wanted....so for me, growing up with that and resenting those actions, my response isn't to try to get him to stop or get him to do anything.....you cheated, you know my stance, if you want to reconcile, you will need to move mountains on your own, but I won't be pushing, prodding or doing anything to get you to stop if on your own you feel no such inclination and have no such decency. You want me, our marriage and our life and you're gonna man up or you don't and you'll lose me and then you can cry about it later....but I won't be forcing you to stop your deplorable actions.

 

That's just my very short fuse about that which again comes from what I witnessed growing up, so my line about it is probably harder than those who didn't have to witness that. I don't think it's necessarily wrong for others to expose to stop...but for me I would just feel very sad and ANGRY if I felt that I had to do that on top of everything else. I've been so affected by cheating in my life that my stance is that most likely we'll be done...however, should we reconcile, certain things need to be there as a prerequisite and one is genuine remorse on your part and you stopping immediately and on your own. That would help me to build trust, but if I feel you don't want to stop and I have to expose you or force it in some way, then I don't have the time or desire and it will only lead me to resenting you and would make a reconciliation even harder.

 

If I don't plan to reconcile, I'll tell more people actually, as then I could care less and would want everyone to know probably out of anger. But if I were trying to reconcile, it would be in my best interest to share this with a select few IMO, as people have a longer memory than you do often, and what you tell all and sundry when it is fresh and then when you try to forgive they may not look at your spouse in the same way at all. If you forgive they technically "should" but it doesn't really work like that all the time....so I take that into consideration. I have no interest in "protecting" a cheater whatsoever, every action to not tell or tell would be for ME and what I see as most conducive to my well-being.

Edited May 21, 2014 by MissBee

[AmyBamy]

Exposure is the best weapon to kill an affair for those hoping for a chance at reconciliation and/or saving their spouse from possible damnation (for those of you that are religious). You can't reconcile anything in a 3 way relationship. Stopping the affair however you can is a prerequisite of recovery. No contact is a must. I've had many repentant former wayward spouses thank me after the fact for encouraging exposure and holding them publicly and privately accountable.

 

As far as shaming them home….affair partners are already "ashamed" of the affair relationship otherwise it wouldn't be a secret. Thus exposure itself doesn't "shame" them into ending and returning back home (except the ones that never wanted a divorce in the first place), rather, exposure is the poison that destroys the affair from the inside-out and allows affair partners to wake up to the reality of the situation thinking with their brains versus their genitals and make a more truthful and realistic assessment of their predicament.

 

Again, nobody has to try to save their wayward spouse. But if someone wants to try to save their marriage waiting around for their wayward spouse to "do what he wanted to do, not what he was forced to do by me" is not a very good strategy towards accomplishing a shot at reconciliation, let alone reconciliation itself. That's like saying the same thing about an alcoholic or drug addict husband and hoping they just change when and because they want to and/or for you. Just doesn't work that way. Truth and consequences are much more efficient at bringing about a rock bottom. IMO, staying silent is just enabling the behavior while also encouraging future recidivism (if you even do recover). I find exposed waywards much more eager and willing to learn new behaviors and earn back their reputations than those waywards who had their reputations protected.

 

I feel the more people expose the more people will realize that infidelity is rampant. It's everywhere and effects most families at one time or another. It's not all that unique and the potentially overwhelming support that's obtainable out there usually far surpasses any negativity. Whereas, secrecy just leads to more isolation and depression. Sharing our marital struggles with our friends and family (including children) models appropriate behavior and teaches those around us tremendous lessons especially where NOT knowing how to be successfully married appears to have been the model up to date.

 

I guess we are different. I chose to approach it as if he was doing what he wanted and I reacted to that. I didn't want to force his hand or have society and everyone pressuring him and judging him. I didn't want that to influence his decision. I wanted him to be where he wanted to be and with whom he wanted to be with. I accepted that he did not want to be with me when I found out he was having an affair. I just accepted that and I did the dirty work of filing for divorce. He did try to reconcile with me for a minute but I figured he had already made his decision and was just waffling because of the pressures around divorce. I didn't take him seriously at that point because I felt like he had already shown me where he wanted to be.

 

For me I could never have trusted that those outside influences didn't influence him. I only want to be married to someone that wants to be married to me not someone who is afraid of divorce or who was forced to stop having an affair. And he wasn't ashamed of his affair and it wasn't a secret to anyone but me. Everyone else knew including some of my distant family members. I was literally the last to find out. That's not shame that's him being exactly where he wanted to be and me taking my power in my half of the relationship and reacting appropriately and in my own best self interest.

 

I don't think that this exposure thing is about snapping the partner out of something. I think it's about rallying an army to assist a BS in forcing their partner to "do the right thing" for many. And I just can't agree with that. Society's rules about monogamy are powerful but who wants forced monogamy? And I could never be sure that isn't what it was if I went that route.

[fellini]

Yes, one of the most severe consequences of "affair fog" is when the wayward spouse ends up marrying their affair partner.

 

That would be some act going from a secret affair, into separation, divorce, settlement of the assets, and then a marriage ceremony all the while maintaining FOG.

[fellini]

I understand the debate about using exposure to STOP the affair. I would have to agree, if that was what it was for, then it probably has less to do with reconciliation and more to do with "I'm leaving, and Im taking your friggin affair down with me". Because as Missbee essentially makes as a good point, on DDAY a decision to stop or move out is pretty much in the cards.

 

I think that exposure serves far more functions than "stop", I think that a WS might even benefit from exposure in the early days of post affair NC, in which a WS, as remorseful as they are, as clear about their decision to rework the marriage as they might be, might also be coming out of a LTR in their affair, and NEED exposure to assist in keeping the AP at arms length as he/she is disconnecting those powerful memories and emotions during recovery.

 

My WS needed more than 4 months to feel strong enough to be "on her own" coming down off of a 2 year EA/PA. I remember telling her, when I felt she still had lingering feelings for the AP that I was taking our daughter alone to be with my family during the month of vacation in August. She pleaded with me to allow her to come with us. I wanted her to stay at home and figure out what she really wanted. Turns out she always knew what she wanted, the marriage, but she also knew that if I got on a plane with our daughter and flew across the Atlantic without her, that she did not have the confidence to know IF she would be strong enough NOT to be tempted to break NC. NC up to this point had been, essentially, a joint effort, with constant checks and communication about how the day went, how things were going, and the absence of my support in her NC was going to possibly put that at risk for her.

 

About 3 months - and one incredible month together away from the scene of the crime, she was able to confidently say that she no longer felt the AP to be a threat to our marriage as far as she was concerned. She was ready to pass him in the halls and not give him a second look.

 

Later we had a classic flip-flop, and once again she found herself confused about whether she still had or didn't have issues to resolve about her relationship with the AP, and that is when we strategically told co-workers about the now 9 month post Dday affair, to get support in preventing the AP from using normal social channels to "bump into" or "find himself beside" my WS. Had we not disclosed, this small group of friends would not have understood, or stopped creating all kinds of situations in which my WS would find herself uncomfortably in his presence.

Edited May 21, 2014 by fellini

[Snowflower]

Hm... ok. (and thanks for the clarification, Snowflake, that helped).

 

Maybe the fact it just that, with "affair fog" comes greater consequences. I still believe there is a fog, of sorts, with every new relationship. How many of you have stayed up till 3 am with your new partner, talking, fully caught up in the excitement of this new couplehood? Knowing full well that you will need to get up in three hours for work? My now husband used to travel all over creation to see me when we were in our affair, just to be able to spend the night with me. Despite the fact that it meant very little sleep and huge expense for him. All pretty small consequences.

 

I guess "affair fog" just has greater consequences, the risk of a marriage. Where, "regular fog" does not really come with severe consequences....

 

edited: as long as we are not arguing that the fog makes someone do something, or that folks are not responsible for what they do in the fog, I can concede that a fog of sort exists, but still contend it exists in any new relationship and is not exclusive to affairs. The consequences thereof are what differentiates the types of "fog".

 

Oh, I agree most definitely that the fog exists even in non-affair relationships. I mean, how many songs have been written about those heady feelings of love?

 

It's just that the fog isn't generally destructive in the non-affair relationships. Yeah, your boss might not be real happy because you stayed out until 3:00am with your new love interest, slept for 3 hours, and came into work the next day and was less than productive. However, this type of behavior is generally not as destructive as affair fog behavior-where you ignore and lie to your spouse and children so that you can spend more time doting on your AP. Or, ignore the reality of your situation along the lines of, "I'll get divorced and be with my AP. My soon-to-be-ex spouse will be fine with it since they don't love me anyway." (foggy-affair type thinking) Your boss might be displeased with you as a result of your foggy decision making (to stay out late) but it isn't quite the same as the hurt the BS experiences.

[WasOtherWoman]

Yes, one of the most severe consequences of "affair fog" is when the wayward spouse ends up marrying their affair partner.

 

LOL, I am sure there are days where my husbands regards me as a "severe consequence" for him.

[AmyBamy]

Different is OK.

 

I'm sorry your ex-husband did that to you. Nobody deserves that.

 

I'm also sorry about the friends that knew and didn't expose it to you. If I had personally known ---> I'd have told you.

 

Divorce does sound like the best outcome in your situation.

 

Not all marriages can or should be saved.

 

Thank you. I have been over it for many years but I still think of it obviously but it doesn't hurt anymore. I was most disappointed that family members knew and didn't tell me. I suppose that they didn't want to be the one to break it to me and I really do understand that to an extent.

 

I guess for me this whole forcing the affair to end seems off to me. Why not let the WS have the affair? Why not just divorce them and let them have at it? And if it's a fog or whatever and it turns out badly let them have those consequences? It's almost like the BS is forcing the affair to end and then rewarding the WS by allowing them to not really have any consequences. Shame maybe but that doesn't last forever. Or if it does what kind of reconciliation can they possibly have if one partner is livid and the other ashamed? I'm not sure that reconciling with the WS is "tough love" as much as just divorcing their ass and leaving them to it is.

 

My ex husband did come back years later and say that he wished he had not had the affair. We probably still would have ended up divorced but it might not have been so tense and hostile. He didn't regret the girl he was with he simply regretted how he went about it. So in our case he did get the tough love because I gave him no choice but to take what he had insinuated he wanted by having an affair. If afterwards he had decided that really wasn't what he wanted that was his problem not mine.

[WasOtherWoman]

That would be some act going from a secret affair, into separation, divorce, settlement of the assets, and then a marriage ceremony all the while maintaining FOG.

 

Indeed. It's been 15 years now, wonder if my hubby is out of the fog yet?

[janedoe67]

Indeed. It's been 15 years now, wonder if my hubby is out of the fog yet?

 

According to some churches, you'd be advised to divorce him, have your original spouse divorce if THEY had remarried, and then remarry each other again.

 

I don't get it. Just because we believe the Bible doesn't mean we have to check our logical brains at the door.

[WasOtherWoman]

According to some churches, you'd be advised to divorce him, have your original spouse divorce if THEY had remarried, and then remarry each other again.

 

I don't get it. Just because we believe the Bible doesn't mean we have to check our logical brains at the door.

 

Sad but true. Although, LOL, our ex-wife (I call her that cause i like her a ton!) is remarried to a younger hottie. I doubt she'd buy into divorcing him!

[Trustnoone]

With exception of exposing to OM's BS I tried to the best of my ability to make rational decisions. I ended up deciding that no additional exposure would be productive. Any further exposure would have been for revenge purposes only. This pertains to my situation only. I could have exposed to work, family, and friends. When I learned of the affair it had ended over two years earlier. I chose reconciliation. I believe had I exposed to the world reconciliation would not be possible. Exposure would have destroyed reconciliation in its infancy. As it is we don't have to worry about anyone passing judgement to either of us. No gossiping, no goofy looks. Pain is shared by myself and WW, our pain won't lessen if family knows or doesn't know.

[anne1707]

This is a personal opinion forum so my professional opinions are irrelevant. My personal opinion is that traditional talk therapy, particularly in the area of marital counseling is a complete waste of time. You can't "draw out" solutions to marital problems from a patient that hasn't a clue how to be successfully married let alone from a client in crisis trying to deal with an affair. You see, to me this is akin to walking into a hospital with a gun shot wound and the attending physician saying "how do you feel?" and "what do YOU think would be a good solution to this situation?". No, when a marriage is in crisis…it needs solutions AND support…immediately…from professionals, friends and family. Because infidelity, in particular, is so secretive, no one can say up front where the best support and help will come from. Often just one phone call to the OP's parents, grandparents, bosses, siblings and/or kids does the trick. They support the marriage by meeting with and telling the OP in no uncertain terms to back off and end the affair. There's almost always a betrayed spouse or repentant former wayward spouse somewhere in everyone's family and/or extended circle of friends willing and able to step out the shadows and OFFER HELP.

 

I'm also not personally an advocate of shaming or punishing anyone so exposure meant solely as revenge isn't what I'm about. Exposure is a loving, caring, tactical and biblical approach to preserving a marriage. That's why wording is important as was discussed on that other thread.

 

My personal opinion is also that IF THE AFFAIR DOESN'T END ON DDAY, unless there are legitimate concerns of safety, exposure should be done immediately and as wide as possible. I do personally believe exposure is right for everyone. I've yet to see a viable reason not to but for sure no one can make anyone do anything. If the affair does end on DDAY, I'm still in favor of limited exposure to family (including kids), the affair partner's spouse, close marriage supporting friends (like your best couple friends and bible study group), and professionals (including Pastors, Priests, Rabbi's, etc).

 

In other words, in my personal opinion, a good counselor should recognize when a patient doesn't have the answers and the counselor does (knowing how to bust up an affair and give a marriage a shot at recovery isn't a 'moral' solution whereupon such counselor is substituting their morals for the clients so I don't see an ethical dilemma here). Instead, I feel the convoluted disingenuous exercise of talking about the problem, planting the right answers and then making the client believe they are their ideas….all over months and months of fees and while the marriage falls further over the cliff as unethical. Why not just short cut the process and say ---- "You want a shot at saving your marriage then this is what I think you need to do and here's why I think you should do it".

 

Ok so in your personal opinion, you do believe counsellors should tell people what to do and have a one size fits all approach to counselling. Well I think there have been enough posts on this thread (from BS as well as WS) which shows that exposure is not right for everybody. Also in my personal opinion there are good MCs out there who don't tell their clients what to do as, again in my opinion, that is totally inappropriate and unprofessional.

[Owl]

I'm of the opinion that exposure to end the affair is often an effective technique to accomplish that goal...and if done appropriately, poses very minimal risk to the possibility of reconciliation/recovery.

 

It DOES depend a lot on the WS's personality. Some couldn't care less who knows or what others think of them...and so exposure would have little effect. Some are SO concerned about what others think of them that they'd run at the first hint of exposure and never look back...because they couldn't face what others might think of them in light of the truth.

 

But those two extremes are relatively uncommon...and pretty easy for their BS to be aware of those particular character traits.

 

Exposure in my situation certainly helped. It prevented the affair from being able to resume quietly (how many times have we seen affairs go underground after a first d-day?), it forced my wife to make a choice, rather than continue to avoid doing so (cake eaters beware), and it gained me valuable allies in helping to save my marriage.

 

Given that affairs thrive on secrecy...are born in it, and grow in it...it tends to be pretty obvious that once the affair is out in the open, they rarely thrive and grow.

 

As far as "shaming the WS into staying"...the only people I've seen bring that up are typically fOW/fOM, and the occasional fWS. Personally, I've never seen shame work as a successful tool to maintain a marriage. So it would stand to reason that IF someone were 'shamed into staying'...it wouldn't last long. It would be a short term strategy only...whereas I've seen exposure be a base to start from for many successful long term reconciliations.

 

If someone was weak enough to be "shamed into staying"...there are a whole host of other things that person needs to address beyond the scope of the marriage.

 

It may not be a one size fits all tool...but my experience has shown me that it fits far more situations than it does not.

[janedoe67]

Personally, I've never seen shame work as a successful tool to maintain a marriage.

 

Me neither, but you'd be amazed how many couples think that is what reconciliation looks like. Sad.