Borrowed Money Etiquette

[somedude81]

He is erratic, never has a car to drive, asks you to suck off other men, moody, irrational, nice when he wants something, borrows money from the gf who makes 3x less than him a month, and always makes tons of excuses for his behaviors. He also has no furniture or nothing to show for work he does and wanted to marry you from the get go of ths relationship. All of this equals meth use. As someone who has a wife who volunteers with domestic abuse women, I can honestly say that every situation she has came home with like this is due to drugs, and my guess is meth because of the availability of it. If you think he is religious so he won't do this, then you are being naive and gullible because just because drug users and domestic abusers are some of the most religious people you will ever meet, sometimes serving as Clergy.

Time to go, Phoe. Time to put yourself first and start looking at actions instead of his silver tongued words.

As a father, I am angry that any young woman would believe this is good behavior from a man. It is so toxic, words fail me.

Grumps

Are you serious? Meth use? Considering that he has large amounts of money vanish into thin air, and lives in the desert, it's not completely unlikely.

 

Phoe, would you feel comfortable asking him if he has taken drugs?

Edited May 20, 2014 by somedude81

[beach]

I just got back from my birthday "celebration".

 

The celebration I didn't know would be happening today and wasn't prepared to have today.

 

 

I'm very frustrated at myself and very confused at my boyfriend's mindset today.

 

 

Monday is my day off, and Monday is the day I don't see my boyfriend, because he goes to work and then has school until about 9 PM. Because of this, I always plan to do my errands, laundry, cleaning, and other responsibilities on this day.

 

 

I was in the middle of doing stuff around 4 when he calls me. The freeway has been totally shut down, he can't make it to school and needs to be picked up 2 towns over.

 

 

I was busy with stuff, but since he needed a ride I dropped what I was doing, threw on some gym shorts and a sweatshirt, threw my hair up in a mess, and took off to go get him.

 

 

The plan was that I would pick him up, drop him off at home, and go back home to finish up the stuff I was doing.

 

 

When I pick him up he says "Hey, wanna go to the bar, play some pool, and eat some fries?" I said no, I wasn't really feeling up to doing that since I had stuff to do at home and was looking like a just rolled out of bed bum. I wasn't expecting to get out of the truck at all, so I didn't get dressed properly. He told me to go home and change then. I still said no, as that was quite a long round trip drive and a lot of gas.

 

 

Well he didn't like that I said no, and was silent for the entire 30 minute car ride home. By the time we got there, I felt guilty and didn't want this to turn into a fight, so I told him I'd go ahead and go home to change and hurry back.

 

 

He protested at first and acted like he didn't want me to do that, but quickly gave that up and agreed.

 

 

Once I got home I just felt so drained. I'd driven around town, looked a mess, hadn't showered, just felt yucky, had a pile of incomplete tasks from the day just looming over me, and was overall just having too much anxiety. I was shaking and felt sickly.

 

 

I got ready, drove to pick him up, and went to the bar. As we arrive he says "Happy early birthday, this is your birthday celebration."

 

 

I just bite my tongue, smile, and say thank you. This is not what I would have chosen at all, but I am thankful that he tried. I'm just confused because he's normally so good with surprises, that this sudden sort of... cluelessness, really caught me off guard.

 

 

Going to the bar to play pool and eat fries is fun every now and then, but it's more HIS thing. Not mine. I just felt frustrated that my birthday celebration was on his terms, where he wanted, WHEN he wanted. I couldn't even get a drink because I was the driver. He got a beer.

 

 

I did tell him that I would have felt more comfortable had we done this on a day where I could have known in advance. So I could at least shower and not have a bunch of errands planned. He got frustrated at this and I realized the only way for us not to fight was for me to just be quiet, smile, and thank him for the rest of the evening.

 

He called me a pain in the ass at least 3 times tonight. I understand that for him, there's nothing wrong with what he did. He unexpectedly had the evening off, and wanted to take me out for an early birthday. In his eyes, I'm being ungrateful and high maintenance. He even tried to get me to just wear a pair of his pants instead of going home to get dressed.

 

 

I'm proud of myself for being flexible. I put aside my anxiety and dropped all the reasons in my head for why tonight wasn't good, and just went and was grateful towards him. I wish he would understand that. That I made a big step tonight in pushing past my discomfort with the whole situation. But instead he just rolls his eyes and says I'm a stubborn pain in his ass.

 

 

In the end, the night wasn't unpleasant. Pool was fun, we had a few laughs, and I truly was happy that I got to see him on a day when I normally wouldn't. The entire situation was just... exhausting and frustrating for me. His inability to understand my discomfort saddens me. And my struggle with being flexible saddens me. I dont want to be like this. I wish I could've just gone to the bar without a protest. But I couldn't. And for that, I feel ungrateful and like I'm not a very good girlfriend.

 

 

This was just a few weeks ago. So you make lots of effort to go out of your way for him yet he calls YOU a pain in the a$$ three times?

 

And you think this is all ok? And he prioritized beers and pool above paying you back the money he owed you?

 

 

Something is really wrong with you staying with him!

 

Calling you a pain in the a$$ is definitely mean and abusive.

 

Why do you not see what a dick he's been?

[CrystalCastles]

Phoe, would you feel comfortable asking him if he has taken drugs?

 

Dude, she can't even ask him if he can give back the money he owes her. I don't think she'll be asking stuff about drug use anytime soon.

[somedude81]

Phoe, any chance you live in San Bernardino County?

 

That area is known as "the methamphetamine-production capital of the United States."

[Grumpybutfun]

Are you serious? Meth use? Considering that he has large amounts of money vanish into thin air, and lives in the desert, it's not completely unlikely.

 

Phoe, would you feel comfortable asking him if he has taken drugs?

 

 

He will lie because that is what drug users do. Maybe he isn't taking drugs, but it's something with an addictive property like sex addiction, gambling, alcoholism, etc. I know it seems completely over the top, but that has been my observation from my wife's work with battered women and from being in the military. There is something because of the erratic nature of his mercurial moods. When I read Phoe's posts to my wife about the birthday celebration, she asked me if he was borrowing money from her, wanting to swing sexually and taking meth. This was without knowing anything about any of her other posts.

 

If nothing else, it is worth being aware of just in case. Keep your eyes and ears open, Phoe.

G

[somedude81]

He will lie because that is what drug users do. Maybe he isn't taking drugs, but it's something with an addictive property like sex addiction, gambling, alcoholism, etc. I know it seems completely over the top, but that has been my observation from my wife's work with battered women and from being in the military. There is something because of the erratic nature of his mercurial moods. When I read Phoe's posts to my wife about the birthday celebration, she asked me if he was borrowing money from her, wanting to swing sexually and taking meth. This was without knowing anything about any of her other posts.

 

If nothing else, it is worth being aware of just in case. Keep your eyes and ears open, Phoe.

G

Damn G! You made my mouth drop.

 

I wonder what your wife would say about this thread.

 

I'm worried that if on the off chance he does happen to be on drugs, that Phoe won't leave him, and instead will try and help him clean up. In the end she will be dragged down with him.

Edited May 20, 2014 by somedude81

[beach]

Damn G! You made my mouth drop.

 

I wonder what your wife would say about this thread.

 

I'm worried that if on the off chance he does happen to be on drugs, that Phoe won't leave him, and instead will try and help him clean up. In the end she will be dragged down with him.

 

Yep, like a good codependent would do.

 

She's already admitted to trying to fix him.

 

He also wanted to move in with her at the very start - and is talking M at a very early stage.

 

Empty promises, lies and future faking is part of what any drug user does consistently.

 

In fact, you're every drug users dream gal...based on what you've stated in this thread.

 

What did he return tonight for $30? Did you see him buy it originally? Druggies steal things all the time and then figure out how to get a bit of money out of what they've stolen.

 

I wouldn't rule out heroin or prescription meds either (oxy- which processes in the body like heroin). Heroin is huge and very available in the so cal area...rampant actually.

 

Someone earning decent money but not having a dime a few days after payday would make more sense.

 

Have you ever seen his bills he says he's been paying? Who does he owe the debt to? Could be his dealer...

[beach]

Phoe, any chance you live in San Bernardino County?

 

That area is known as "the methamphetamine-production capital of the United States."

 

I thought she stated a "tiny" desert town... Indio? La Quinta maybe? Two towns over might make sense if he was in Palm desert it could take 30 minutes...

[somedude81]

I thought she stated a "tiny" desert town... Indio? La Quinta maybe? Two towns over might make sense if he was in Palm desert it could take 30 minutes...

 

She's stated that she lives in the Mojave Desert.

 

I really don't want to Sherlock her and find out where she lives. Though thought asking what county she's in should be safe enough.

 

I'm in LA county which really doesn't tell you anything.

 

Either way, I really really, hope he's not on drugs.

Edited May 20, 2014 by somedude81

[regine_phalange]

Phoe you are a good woman but very guillible. I think you have put yourself in a pathetic position and have no desire of moving from it. All the posters who urge you to leave say so because they care. You would do the same to other people, because you wouldnt be blinded by love. I understand that you love him, but please, think logically. What kind of a man is he, to not think that you will miss the money? That you wont be able to cover basic needs like food? Its a big deal Phoe, and he has been truly careless.

 

Im not sure if he is doing drugs. But maybe he owes money to other people too, as he seems like the kind of person who wont repay on time, if ever. Maybe he owes since long.time ago, maybe its recent. Maybe these people he owes to are not very good people. Maybe they are shady people. Be careful Phoe, you dont want to open the door someday to some stranger who will blackmail you with a knife because your boyfriend owes him.

[Grumpybutfun]

Damn G! You made my mouth drop.

 

I wonder what your wife would say about this thread.

 

I'm worried that if on the off chance he does happen to be on drugs, that Phoe won't leave him, and instead will try and help him clean up. In the end she will be dragged down with him.

 

 

Somedude, My wife would say that it is a possibility but I shouldn't jump to conclusions and I would agree...except that nothing makes sense about this situation, except addiction or mental disorders, therefore I think addiction is definitely something worth considering.

I remember a guy in the Navy whose wife had been on meth for five years and he didn't have a clue, and they lived together...most everything he described sounded very similar to this situation with Phoe.

Even if Phoe completely thinks I am loony and rejects everything I've said, it is still in her consciousness so hopefully this theory will be on her radar.

Denial about how great someone is or addictive traits can be very adept at keeping people in situations that are toxic. I'm thinking Phoe will be angry with what I've said and will wonder why everyone on all of her threads can't just concentrate on the question at hand...because it is so toxic and beyond belief for many of us that we can't shake the bad feeling something is very wrong with this man.

Grumps

[Smilecharmer]

The etiquette part he blew since he was the one who borrowed and didn't repay. It isn't your responsibility to figure this out. It is his and since he seems to blame you for everything in your relationship, I am sure he was tell you that you are an a$$ for asking for your money back. I honestly would rather be alone than be in a relationship like this and it is only getting worse from month to month.

[Shepp]

Forgive me for presuming, because frankly I've had folk unable to see what I see in my gf and think me mad for it! Cause they didn't know her half as well as I did and I thought I knew better, guess it turns out I did - that's the game, some win, some lose... I'm not saying your right o trust him, or that your wrong BUT..

I don't understand why in this thread and the other oe of the birthday fiasco, your so worried about hurting his feelings?

If you didn't like the pub thing, and you realy didn't, and he happens to be grumpy - so what?

If you tell him you need the cash, and you genuinely do, and he feels bad - so what?

I don't get what your worried about? He's a big boy, right? Surely he can deal with getting his feelings hurt a little or feeling a little Guilty for forgetting something he shouldn't of forgotton?

 

Look, if you say he's not, then he's not, but an outsider looking in could be very easily forgiven for thinking that he's holding the whole reltionship over your head as method to get what he wants! Like the little kid in the playground who won't let you play with his football if you don't panda to him!

 

 

And also the reality is that money is going somewhere maybe not gambling or drugs or drink or into a savings account but it is going somewhere! Of its debt then again, you don't get in that amount of debt without some serious spending!

[Smilecharmer]

Forgive me for presuming, because frankly I've had folk unable to see what I see in my gf and think me mad for it! Cause they didn't know her half as well as I did and I thought I knew better, guess it turns out I did - that's the game, some win, some lose... I'm not saying your right o trust him, or that your wrong BUT..

I don't understand why in this thread and the other oe of the birthday fiasco, your so worried about hurting his feelings?

If you didn't like the pub thing, and you realy didn't, and he happens to be grumpy - so what?

If you tell him you need the cash, and you genuinely do, and he feels bad - so what?

I don't get what your worried about? He's a big boy, right? Surely he can deal with getting his feelings hurt a little or feeling a little Guilty for forgetting something he shouldn't of forgotton?

 

Look, if you say he's not, then he's not, but an outsider looking in could be very easily forgiven for thinking that he's holding the whole reltionship over your head as method to get what he wants! Like the little kid in the playground who won't let you play with his football if you don't panda to him!

 

 

And also the reality is that money is going somewhere maybe not gambling or drugs or drink or into a savings account but it is going somewhere! Of its debt then again, you don't get in that amount of debt without some serious spending!

 

Did your gf want to borrow money from you and not repay it? Get mad at you for wanting your own space and throw a fit? Rush you into trying to move in together? Ask you to give head jobs to other guys in front of her to spice things up after two months together? Did you feel like you could never do anything right because you kept feeling guilty you were messing things up? Called you names like pain in the arse? Ask you to pick her up all the time even though you work long hours too and get mad if you didn't do it at her convenience? Does she turn everything around on you to make you feel like you are the bad bf? Ask you to keep a savings acct for marriage money which she doesn't contribute but expects you to live on ramen noodles? If not, this isn't the same as liking a gf because you think your son or brother or friend can do better than someone who had a rough childhood and got pregnant by another bloke. That wasn't directly aimed at you as a person, but some blips your gf had in her life. If I recall, your gf treats you pretty well.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Smilecharmer

[Emilia]

Did your gf want to borrow money from you and not repay it? Get mad at you for wanting your own space and throw a fit? Rush you into trying to move in together? Ask you to give head jobs to other guys in front of her to spice things up after two months together? Did you feel like you could never do anything right because you kept feeling guilty you were messing things up? Called you names like pain in the arse? Ask you to pick her up all the time even though you work long hours too and get mad if you didn't do it at her convenience? Does she turn everything around on you to make you feel like you are the bad bf? Ask you to keep a savings acct for marriage money which she doesn't contribute but expects you to live on ramen noodles? If not, this isn't the same as liking a gf because you think your son or brother or friend can do better than someone who had a rough childhood and got pregnant by another bloke. That wasn't directly aimed at you as a person, but some blips your gf had in her life. If I recall, your gf treats you pretty well.

That's because he picked a woman that treats him well. It's all about self esteem.

[xxoo]

The reality is, you don't have to dump him. If you properly stand up for yourself and stop tolerating poor treatment, he'll leave on his own.

 

I guess you already know that deep down, which is why you don't demand proper respect.

[USMCHokie]

I thought she stated a "tiny" desert town... Indio? La Quinta maybe? Two towns over might make sense if he was in Palm desert it could take 30 minutes...

 

Those aren't tiny towns...I go there every weekend to escape from my tiny desert town...

[Art_Critic]

He will give me 80 on friday.

 

That it ? 20%.. he is taking advantage of your nice demeanor.

 

80... he told you he would pay it ALL back 3 paychecks ago and now you are settling for 20%..

 

Excuse me for saying this but his character is horrible,.. why would you want to be with someone who exhibits such a huge horrible character defect such as lack of it.

 

I'm with Grumps on this one and someone else who mentioned an addiction issue.. this is not adding up

[Art_Critic]

I defend him because the majority of the advice I've been given suggests that I leave. The advice regarding how to fix the situation has been noted and taken in, and will be followed accordingly.

 

 

When I get told he's a loser who I need to leave, that's when I defend. Because he's not a loser and I don't need to leave him.

 

I've never suggested you leave but do think your BF isn't treating you right and is seriously taking advantage of you.

 

He has some issues that you are going to wish one day that you had dealt with rather than push under the rug with the everyone has negatives and aspires to be better routine.

 

I hope he pays you back Phoe.. and all of it. that would show me that is a better person than his behavior shows that he is.

[Shepp]

Did your gf want to borrow money from you and not repay it? Get mad at you for wanting your own space and throw a fit? Rush you into trying to move in together? Ask you to give head jobs to other guys in front of her to spice things up after two months together? Did you feel like you could never do anything right because you kept feeling guilty you were messing things up? Called you names like pain in the arse? Ask you to pick her up all the time even though you work long hours too and get mad if you didn't do it at her convenience? Does she turn everything around on you to make you feel like you are the bad bf? Ask you to keep a savings acct for marriage money which she doesn't contribute but expects you to live on ramen noodles? If not, this isn't the same as liking a gf because you think your son or brother or friend can do better than someone who had a rough childhood and got pregnant by another bloke. That wasn't directly aimed at you as a person, but some blips your gf had in her life. If I recall, your gf treats you pretty well.

 

No no no, that wasn't how i meant that point to come across, not at all, were very happy, my gf treats me great, that wasnt what i was trying to say....

 

I was just trying to say like....Phoe defends her boyfriend in most of these threads and i assume she reads most of these posts and thinks "gee why is everyone so damn negative" and i get having people be it on her or in real life be negative about relationship and sitting there and thinking that no one else understands because they dont know them like i do.

And i get that when the character of someone you love (and be this guy good or bad - she loves him) is called into question by people maybe you really dont know that well, that your instinct is to defend.

 

And im not sticking up for this guy not at all - i could give my personal opinion on the guy but i don't think it would help - there's enough folk that have done that already on this thread, what's one more post!

 

Thats why what i was trying to say was that she needs to take the dude out of the equation for a minute and look at her own actions - shes not telling him what shes thinking or feeling. Even if you think that guys amazing if theres something in your gut or your head stopping you from telling someone who's partner, basically your teammate in this game of life, what your thinking or feeling, because - why? Your worried about the outcome of doing that? the repercussions? Then however great you think that person is - that relationship just aint working!

 

You don't even have to look at the other person and judge them you can see it by studying your own actions and deciding if they're actions that your proud of, that you'd recommend, that you would want you son or daughter to copy.

If they're not, then someone else is having an effect on you that makes you act in a way that isnt in your heart and then you find you where you draw your lines!

 

 

The guy who pays you back when he can afford it isnt half the man who pays you back even when he cant!

Treating someone well when things are good means nothing, its when things are bad or rocky and someone still treats you good that you can put some faith in them.

 

But people draw their own lines, thats why i dont think external opinions on the character of someone you love helps - maybe i'm wrong, but i figure that its something that people have to find in their own heart, you dont find your line till you smack straight into it.

[Leigh 87]

Phoe, I'm sorry that you likely have to feel anxious about coming back to your threads.

 

When I wrote about my ex...... people here also told me to leave him. And etc.... I HATE coming back on here. I felt addicted to coming back to see awful responses about ex that I DID NOT want to hear. It felt awful.

 

But everyone was right about him....

 

I am personally sorry. I have come down hard on your bf. I have suggested you leave him and called him a jerk.

 

I really like you as a poster so from now on I will just focus on trying to help your situation okay.... my opinions your bf aside, I will truly stick to your question form here on out.

 

You know how I feel about the guy.

 

I will try to give you advice based on similar situations myself and my friends have gone through. I won't mention my own personal opinion... I'll do what I can to help you without thatbelly sinling feeling yyou must get every time you log on and read people's comments.

 

Everything will work out for you in the end. I trust that you will kick him to the curb once REALLY does cross your boundaries.

 

Good luck

 

Sorry that our comments have upset you I felt pretty crappy when people told me to leave my bf.

 

Only I waited over 2 years before we ended...... and I was hysterical. It's the most awful thing I have had to endure and..... I urge you, as SOON as you have a gut feeling that something isn't right.....

 

Act on it.

 

So you are not crying hysterically 2 years down the track, totally codependent, and being at a total LOSS as to how to live without this guy..

[Leigh 87]

Apologies! !

 

My "smart phone" has auto corrected the heck put of my last post:o

[hotpotato]

So this is the same dude you were talking about in the break up forum not long ago? Please, tell me it isn't.

 

I hope this isn't an addiction issue. If your bf upsets the wrong people, they will go after Phoe.

 

At this point in my life, I understand that if I give people money, I will probably not get it back.

 

If you want to put gas in his car or buy him groceries, that's one thing, but don't give him CASH. Heck, I dont even give my family members cash...

[Babolat]

I go to bed, wake up and there are 5+ more pages. I think Phoe has clearly stated she has gotten the advice she needs.

 

Why is everyone still trying to help her, FIX her, and figure out what's the deal with her bf? Perhaps Phoe should start a new thread for that if she wants us to help her with that?

[Babolat]

Phoe,

 

How are you going to survive if, come Friday, he does not pay you back? Do you have a back-up plan? Given the trend in his behavior, there's a strong likelihood that he will fail to make a payment to you, and you need to be prepared to stand your ground should that happen.

 

None of this slapping a smile on, and pretending everything is OK when it isn't. It is this behavior that has led you into this position. If you lend someone money under the agreement and understanding that you expect a full repayment, you have every right to confront that person when they fail to meet their end of the bargain.

 

Currently, even with his offer of partial repayment, he's still failing to hold up his end. Offering to pay you a measly 20% of what he owes is not repayment. Is there an understanding that more will arrive later or is that to write it off? Why can't he pay it in full has he said?

 

I'm not going to make assumptions as to where his money is going-it could be anything, but you have to get to the bottom of it before taking the next step with him.

 

The fact that he thought to pay his mam and uncle back before you tells you what his priorities are, and you're not it. It also suggests that he knows you're going to put up with it which indicates that you have not laid down your boundaries well enough.

 

I think the responses you're receiving is because everyone is looking at this in the context of your entire relationship (as you've revealed on here at any rate) rather than taking this thread in the vacuum that I think you'd rather it. Nothing exists in a vacuum, and this is just one other thing that adds to another red flag about this guy.

 

Honestly, as long as you remain in denial about the existence of the red flags, and instead, choose to see them as imperfections you can fix, your relationship will continue and be unhealthy. He makes comments about you that he passes off as jokes but they clearly bother you because if they didn't, you wouldn't mention them here. He makes sneaky accusations that he then disguises as jokes, which again, if it didn't bother you, you wouldn't post about it here.

 

You can't fix someone else. You can only fix yourself, and you do need to fix yourself, too. You need to expand your list of boundaries, and establish them, and put your foot down. If something he does makes you unhappy, you need to speak up and not slap a smile on your face as he calls you a pain in the a$$. This guy seems like the type that would take a yard if you give him an inch.

Well said

 

This goes back to what I said earlier. he is 0 for 3 on his promisies to pay you back. The chances are not good at all you will see any money this week. So, you should set expectations and boundaries with him now, today so he knows what to expect should he not pay you back this week, even if it's just a partial payment.

 

You are in a tricky spot as you really do not have any bargainig/negotiating power here. I'm not sure what you could tell him. I don't think you should talk about why you need the money (hunger, bills, etc). You talk about what he initially agreed to, that you are disappointed, let down that he has not paid you back yet. Use "Feeling" words. Tell him you were glad you could help him in a time of need. Remind him of his intent to pay you back. Maybe offer a payment plans, $20 a week or whatever works for you. Make it clear to him you are NOT in a position to help him financially at this point, as much as you would like to, that YOU need to take care of your own finances. Tell him you would love to help him, but you can't. He does not need details why you can't. Remind him before you take a next step with him in the rerlationship you need him to get his finances in order, that that is very important to you in a relationship.