Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted May 22, 2014 Author Posted May 22, 2014 Maybe I'm misunderstanding again TDP, but are you saying that you suggested she does less of something that she loves (ie her part-time work) so that you get more of something you love (ie sex)? As she's already made it clear she doesn't want more sex, how did you see this as non-threatening? How could you expect this not to result in a 'blow-up' or a 'fight'? I'd sure as h*ll be p*ssed at my guy if he suggested I give up something I enjoyed so that I'd be more available to meet his (in my eyes) already excessive needs. Your wife already thinks that things are unevenly balanced in your favour, so what would be in it for her if she agreed to do this? You seem like a really good guy TDP. You're always battling to understand what's going on in your marriage and I find that commendable. At times though, I'm just baffled by the way your brain works. I told her to better balance it. She hates early mornings and is exhausted and tired. She also feels pressure to be at her best for all her clients and go beyond. Now if she could bring that into the bedroom I'd be over the moon;). All is fine, the issue and comment was aimed at that age old excuse as to why sex is always at the very very bottom of every list. Oh and then there's the new set of excuses that come up when on vacation.....:love:
LittleTiger Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 I'm not TDP but he also said that her job is stressful ("I then suggested that we take things that stress her off the plate, one being the cut back some on the part-time work she does and does love (and money not the issue)"... So, he is looking for some balance. She loves her job, but it's also stressful, and this is impacting on the quality of their relationship... or at least I read it like this... I read it that way too - but I can also see it from her side. She's using the stress from work as an 'excuse' to not have sex because she doesn't want more sex - not because she wants to give up her job!
LittleTiger Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 I told her to better balance it. She hates early mornings and is exhausted and tired. She also feels pressure to be at her best for all her clients and go beyond. Now if she could bring that into the bedroom I'd be over the moon;). All is fine, the issue and comment was aimed at that age old excuse as to why sex is always at the very very bottom of every list. Oh and then there's the new set of excuses that come up when on vacation.....:love: You told her to better balance it? In your favour you mean? She doesn't want more sex - that's not going to change regardless of how hard she's working. The fact that she finds other 'excuses' while you're on holiday is proof of that. 1
LittleTiger Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 This incident happened after she went to a wedding with the girls, where they all drank ate had a great time (I played chauffeur happily). I was not at all feeling sorry for myself as I got to catch up on reading a Movie and a Documentary I wanted to watch. Also.....how does this reflect badly on your wife? I'm really not trying to get at you here TDP, I'd like to help you to communicate with your wife better. Not that I'm an expert by any means but I can see so clearly why she gets upset with you. I'm not pointing the finger at you either because I firmly believe it takes two to tango, but what made you think that this was a good time to suggest she gives up her work so you could have more sex? She'd just been out for a fun evening with her friends and the last thing on her mind was you or sex - sorry, but if she's not interested in sex then that's the reality - I know because I have friends who are like her. Was it the fact that you'd happily 'played chauffeur' ie 'done her a favour' - ie expected something in return?
giotto Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 I read it that way too - but I can also see it from her side. She's using the stress from work as an 'excuse' to not have sex because she doesn't want more sex - not because she wants to give up her job! ah, ah, brilliant, LT, absolutely correct... I don't think TDP is going to like your interpretation, though...
giotto Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 but what made you think that this was a good time to suggest she gives up her work so you could have more sex? TDP didn't say he wanted her wife to give her job up... just to cut down... now I'll have to stop, otherwise you'll think me and TDP are the same person...
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted May 22, 2014 Author Posted May 22, 2014 I wouldn't say it is at all a stressful job, but one she makes stressful, which is her personality (and that too probably does require seeing a professional). Again it is part-time and the result of a career change (from managing 30 in an IT environment) to getting a severance package (Global company moved and was not forced) and as my job stabilized she had time to decide what she wanted to do and did not make sense to go back in the industry and the 9-5 grind. Anyhow LittleTiger I appreciate your response and maybe my spouse reacted like that for those reasons, but that really is such a small part and she also knows the issues about sex, which I really don't push as things are not terrible and only once in a while do reach a boiling point (ie. after a while without and then a good evening that leads to a comment like on the weekend).
LittleTiger Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) ah, ah, brilliant, LT, absolutely correct... I don't think TDP is going to like your interpretation, though... I don't think it's an interpretation, I think it's the reality - unfortunately for TDP! TDP didn't say he wanted her wife to give her job up... just to cut down... now I'll have to stop, otherwise you'll think me and TDP are the same person... Yes, but same answer, she doesn't really want to cut down - it's just a convenient thing to say when the subject of sex raises it's ugly head! There's no chance of me getting you two mixed up! Edited May 22, 2014 by LittleTiger
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted May 22, 2014 Author Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) She'd just been out for a fun evening with her friends and the last thing on her mind was you or sex - sorry, but if she's not interested in sex then that's the reality - I know because I have friends who are like her. Was it the fact that you'd happily 'played chauffeur' ie 'done her a favour' - ie expected something in return? And this is why I try and stay away from trying to explain my situation. I know you have the best intentions and certainly hit some very key points. This all is then reminiscent of some other posters and their mantra of "be a man","Do the 180" and "Go to the gym and build muscles". Yep was a good boy and behaved myself and went out of my way to make things easier for my wife. I used to call it the 168 hours of foreplay (sometimes stretched to 350-500 hours)..... It was a comment said when I was not happy with the pithy "last thing on my mind" knowing full well it is on my mind and after a fun night/good week...... Really how about focusing on her response, which I promise you is not true but was said in a nasty manner and meant to hurt? Again not something I want to debate, just clarify. Edited May 22, 2014 by Toodamnpragmatic
Mr. Lucky Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 Yes, but same answer, she doesn't really want to cut down - it's just a convenient thing to say when the subject of sex raises it's ugly head! Since you have some insight into TDP's situation, any suggestions as to how he might approach it differently? Mr. Lucky 1
giotto Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 Since you have some insight into TDP's situation, any suggestions as to how he might approach it differently? Mr. Lucky Change wife? 3
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted May 22, 2014 Author Posted May 22, 2014 Since you have some insight into TDP's situation, any suggestions as to how he might approach it differently? Mr. Lucky I think my spouse would tell me that I am obsessed and too sexualized, which is the common refrain. I can make lists and review all I've done and how I've grown as a person and how I approach this. Nothing is simple black and white and this is where I've really grown tired reading these "experts" and their mantras as to how to address it. Yep and some have had success. I'd say I've had success too, as I no longer post and am reading these sites daily for hours looking for an answer. Moreso I don't push look at the positive, don't pout and hold out hope. The most cogent of argiments and well laid out facts mean very little if they are not willing to change their understanding of your needs. I've adopted (and it is easier for me because I am nowhere near sexless and reading these sites certainly am lacking enough testosterone to have a normal sex life;). ) a very simple attitude. It is what it is....
LittleTiger Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 This all is then reminiscent of some other posters and their mantra of "be a man","Do the 180" and "Go to the gym and build muscles". Yep was a good boy and behaved myself and went out of my way to make things easier for my wife. I used to call it the 168 hours of foreplay (sometimes stretched to 350-500 hours)..... Let me guess, it was male posters who suggested these things? Really how about focusing on her response, which I promise you is not true but was said in a nasty manner and meant to hurt? If it was your wife who was posting here then we could focus on her response. As it's you who's posting we have to focus on yours. You can't change your wife, only she can do that. What you can change is you - and hope that the changes you make will lead to different responses from her. If she talks to you (about sex or anything else) in a nasty manner that's meant to hurt, that suggests a serious crack in your marriage. She must hold some major resentment towards you for something - or worse still she's completely lost respect for you!
LittleTiger Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 Since you have some insight into TDP's situation, any suggestions as to how he might approach it differently? Mr. Lucky If I was TDP, I'd want to find out why my wife no longer respected me! 1
carhill Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 So How Much Sex is Enough???? Where the partners both feel satisfied and validated regarding the expression of their desires, intimacy and love in the relationship. If either partner feels unsatisfied, the team has an issue to work. Each partner is responsible for their own work. Is 'how much' a moving target? It can be! People change throughout life, as does their satisfaction and validation needs and wants within relationships. There was phrase I heard a lot in my young years back in the 60's - 'If momma isn't happy, no one is happy', referring to one aspect of satisfaction and validation. If momma wasn't happy, then the team had a challenge to work. In traditional households, it was 'daddy's' job to keep momma happy. In healthy, and equal, partnerships, each partner fulfills the role and the work, if validating and satisfying one's partner could be described as work, is mutual. At some point, and I'll plagiarize a wonderful insight our psychologist provided, if reasonable expectations and efforts fail, the couple has a decision to make. Continue and accept being unsatisfied or unvalidated, or end the relationship. As each couple is different, each result will also be different. In my own M, sex was always available. Intimacy, OTOH, was exceedingly difficult to come by. I could have sex with any warm body. I preferred to make love with the partner, and spouse, I loved and experience such love inside and outside of the bedroom. When I had my fill, wrongly, I got that intimacy elsewhere. I should have divorced. Had I received the excellent insight provided by our MC earlier, I would have divorced. My mistake and responsibility. Hopefully, my exW went on to be with someone she genuinely loved and felt intimate with. That's my wish for anyone. The beauty of love and intimacy is truly one of life's gifts. 1
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted May 22, 2014 Author Posted May 22, 2014 Approach it as a team. Can do that about work, children, laundry, cooking and home decisions....... In the bedroom next to impossible as the one partner holds the cards. This is not something that can be bartered and too often we make that mistake. I have fallen in the trap on my own thread where I just was questioning something I read and was agape at the lack of judgement (which I always do) in the thread I read. Everyone I know is asexual by those standards. I just watched Don Jon (and hope I'm not giving anything away) and the ongoing theme was that the lead (with an unhealthy view of sex and addicted) would go to confession and say how much relations he had and masturbation. I thought it was meant to be funny that the # was 15-22 a week (masturbation). Even in his relationship it was only daily, low by LS (and the other sites norms).
Beechy1973 Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 If the sexual needs within a relationship couple are significantly mismatched and causing frustration and issues, as if this goes on for years without resolution then I'd get out. Don't underestimate the damage it can do to your self esteem by remaining in the hope it will improve. Likelihood it won't and they no longer find you attractive.
Mr. Lucky Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 I just watched Don Jon (and hope I'm not giving anything away) and the ongoing theme was that the lead (with an unhealthy view of sex and addicted) would go to confession and say how much relations he had and masturbation. I thought it was meant to be funny that the # was 15-22 a week (masturbation). Even in his relationship it was only daily, low by LS (and the other sites norms). Thought that movie was an interesting idea poorly developed and told. I never really cared what happened to any of the main characters. There's a good story in there somewhere, it just never made it to the screen. If the sexual needs within a relationship couple are significantly mismatched and causing frustration and issues, as if this goes on for years without resolution then I'd get out. Don't underestimate the damage it can do to your self esteem by remaining in the hope it will improve. Likelihood it won't and they no longer find you attractive. I don't think "attraction" is the root cause of the sexual disconnect described in this and other threads. You can't successfully live under the same roof, proactively raise children and interact positively in others areas of the marriage excepting sex with someone you're not attracted to... Mr. Lucky
Beechy1973 Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 Then you don't understand the way sex and bonding works, Mr Lucky. Don't forget we are animals first and foremost, even though we may aspire for better.
Mr. Lucky Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 Then you don't understand the way sex and bonding works, Mr Lucky. If someone was unable to successfully relate to or participate sexually with their spouse due to their own issues or baggage - emotional, physical or historical - would you still say that lack of attraction was the main cause ??? Mr. Lucky
bwright42tx Posted May 23, 2014 Posted May 23, 2014 I don't think "attraction" is the root cause of the sexual disconnect described in this and other threads. You can't successfully live under the same roof, proactively raise children and interact positively in others areas of the marriage excepting sex with someone you're not attracted to... Mr. Lucky It happens all the time. People say they feel like roommates, not lovers. They stay together just for the kids. Some even sleep in separate bedrooms. You can definitely raise kids, positively interact with your "best friend" throughout all aspect of your life, and still have 0 attraction for them. You can't do this with revulsion, lack of respect, etc. but attraction is not required. 1
Mr. Lucky Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 It happens all the time. People say they feel like roommates, not lovers. They stay together just for the kids. Some even sleep in separate bedrooms. You can definitely raise kids, positively interact with your "best friend" throughout all aspect of your life, and still have 0 attraction for them. You can't do this with revulsion, lack of respect, etc. but attraction is not required. Very hard to do and you need look no further than the posters here. Many have "good marriages" but the anger, resentment and need is thinly disguised. And I'll bet their spouses are very aware of both the depth and content of their feelings. I don't call that positively interacting... Mr. Lucky
Mr. Lucky Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Likelihood it won't and they no longer find you attractive. I also think, in a long-term relationship, attraction in the way you mean it is a myth, the unicorn of marriage. It happens during the 12-18 month initial limerence but by necessity evolves into (hopefully) equal parts affection, regard, expression and consideration. If a 20+ year marriage depended on "can't wait to get my hands him/her", the divorce rate would be 90%... Mr. Lucky
LittleTiger Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 I also think, in a long-term relationship, attraction in the way you mean it is a myth, the unicorn of marriage. It happens during the 12-18 month initial limerence but by necessity evolves into (hopefully) equal parts affection, regard, expression and consideration. If a 20+ year marriage depended on "can't wait to get my hands him/her", the divorce rate would be 90%... I believe half the problem in a long term relationship or marriage, where the wife loses interest in sex, is the fact that she has also lost at least some of the respect, affection and consideration for her husband that's necessary to sustain the intimate bond. The other half is probably due to age related issues such as hormonal changes and health.
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